Viruses / Vaccines 2

josevolution

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering! 

It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus.  Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.  

Ok some aspects of how the death count happened I’m sure wasn’t or isn’t a perfect system but I know that when it started to get bad the morgue at the hospital I worked at the time was being emptied at least 3 times a day the morgue holds 34 corpses! So yeah it was bad 

mookieblalock

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

Rule #1 - attack the source when you don’t like the facts presented 

BF25394

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

That sounds so stupid and paranoid.  

Let's try this a different way.  Do you believe that parents that send their children to public schools should be mandated to have those children vaccinated against measles, mumps and polio?

Yes, b/c those vaccines’ development went through much more scrutiny and oversight than the supposed Covid vaccine did. The Covid vaccine was forced upon the populace by skipping over steps that were not skipped before in the development of those 3 vaccines.  Big Pharma also hid data from vax trials from the public and still do to this day.  One of Trump’s biggest missteps was Op warp speed.

None of what you say here is true. The COVID vaccines went through full trials, and there have been billions of doses administered in the real world without any meaningful side effects. (Please don't tell me about myocarditis; rates of myocarditis are higher among those infected with COVID than among vaccine recipients.) The vaccines were not forced upon anyone. No one was forced to receive a COVID vaccine. There is a difference between forcing someone to do something and giving them an incentive to do something. Operation Warp Speed was one of the only things Trump deserves credit for.

BF25394

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

That sounds so stupid and paranoid.  

Let's try this a different way.  Do you believe that parents that send their children to public schools should be mandated to have those children vaccinated against measles, mumps and polio?

Yes, b/c those vaccines’ development went through much more scrutiny and oversight than the supposed Covid vaccine did. The Covid vaccine was forced upon the populace by skipping over steps that were not skipped before in the development of those 3 vaccines.  Big Pharma also hid data from vax trials from the public and still do to this day.  One of Trump’s biggest missteps was Op warp speed.  I wish he would admit that.  So, back to your original question, yes I’m good with measles, mumps and polio vaxes.  The clot shot is a different ball of wax.  I don’t believe you can compare it with the vaccines you mentioned.

Just so you know, the Polio vaccine did not go through deep trials.  It was licensed in 1955 and released the same year.  And the vaccine was never more than 94% effective.  It relies on herd immunity to be effective.  

I obviously didn’t know that.  Thanks for the info.

Not only that, but when the polio vaccine was rolled out, there was a tainted batch that contained live virus and caused tens of thousands of polio cases and hundreds of deaths, but the public was informed and mature enough to understand that this was a mistake and that it did not mean that the vaccine was ineffective or dangerous when formulated and administered properly.

BF25394

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering! 

It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus.  Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.  

Again, none of this is true. 

BF25394

A while back, I posted some responses to someone in another thread on some of the things being discussed here. I'm going to paste those here for anyone who cares to read them. The parts in bold are my responses to the original post, which is excerpted in regular text below.

*********

I got the first round of vaccines and got a booster. So I'm not an anti-vax person. My opinion on why Covid is no longer taken seriously  because, yet again, our government lied to us. They said the vaccine would stop transmission, would protect people and would be lessen the symptoms. It did none of that.

Testing in 2020 showed that the vaccines decreased transmission by 94-95 percent, depending on which vaccine was being studied. This was reported widely in various media at the time-- before the vaccines were even approved for emergency use. It was never expected that vaccination would eliminate transmission, only that it would limit transmission, which it did. (Protection wanes over time, but it doesn't go to zero.) All of the data show that those who were vaccinated had less severe illness and lower rates of death. The vaccines actually did protect people from severe illness and lessen their symptoms. Breakthrough infections tend to be less severe and involve a smaller viral load, which means that the infected person is contagious for a shorter period of time, and less contagious during that period than without vaccination/with a greater viral load, both of which limit transmission.

During Covid with the lockdowns, which also did nothing except destroy business but somehow profits went up? More lies from those in charge.

You're jumbling things together. Profits went up for some businesses (e.g., online retailing) in the early days of the pandemic, and some businesses were hit very hard (e.g., many restaurants). In the second quarter of 2020, when restrictions were most onerous, U.S. GDP declined by 34 percent. Very few companies were increasing profits during that period. Then, as restrictions were loosened in the third quarter, GDP increased by 38 percent. There is no mystery or conspiracy at work here. I'm not even sure what the lie you're referring to is here. Every business was not similarly situated when the pandemic hit. Some continued to lose money long after the initial months of the pandemic (e.g., movie theaters).  Others rebounded quickly. Even before state and local governments started imposing restrictions in late March 2020, large numbers of customers had stopped going out to restaurants and movies, as evidenced by credit-card transaction data. That change in behavior would have happened with or without government restrictions. Incidentally, "lockdown" is a misleading word. People were not locked down. People were free to leave their homes. They were free to travel. Some businesses were forced to close, but that does not make a lockdown. Look at how China handled COVID: those were actual lockdowns. People were forced to stay in their homes.

Do you remember how people who didn't want to get vaccinated were ostracized by the media who suggested a caste system of vaxxed and non vaxxed?

"The media" is a broad term doing a lot of work here. There were plenty of media doing the exact opposite of what you're describing, including the most-watched cable-news network. It's also a very vague claim to say that "the media" suggested a "caste system" because there were individual people advocating for differential treatment of the vaccinated and the unvaccinated (while others in "the media" advocated for no such differential treatment). An actual caste system differentiates people based on nothing other than to whom they were born. What you're describing is not a caste system; it's a system in which certain rewards are withheld from people who refuse to participate in a particular public-health program. It's no different than the largely uncontroversial system that has been in place in every state for years whereby children cannot attend public school until they prove that they are inoculated against several illnesses.

Now we have athletes dropping from heart attacks and other random things, I don't recall super healthy people dropping like they have lately.

This is not a thing. I don't really know what else to say. Maybe you should ask Hank Gathers about it.

If the vaccines were safe, why did Big Pharma get protection from lawsuits? The whole thing is corrupt as hell.

The protection you're talking about was enacted in 2005. It had nothing to do with COVID. The impetus for it was actually the "war on terror." Fear of biological and chemical attacks by terrorists were prompting increased (and increasingly hurried) research into medical interventions that might be necessary on a wide scale on short notice, and drug companies capitalized on that fear to push for greater protection for themselves. (Incidentally, of the 106 votes against the bill in the House, 89 were by Democrats. House Republicans supported the bill 202-16. I cite these numbers not to make a political point, just to demonstrate how disconnected the bill was from the politics of the 2020s, where vaccine resistance has been a signature of the Republicans, not the Democrats. And, of course, the bill was signed into law by Republican President George W. Bush.)

There is plenty of available data regarding the testing of the COVID vaccines that you are free to review. There is also three years of real-world data involving over 13 billion administered doses that demonstrate the vaccines' safety and efficacy.

 

Choccoloccotide

Here’s RFK Jr’s thoughts/views on vaccines in his own words.  Good read.

https://x.com/newstart_2024/status/1857889442544886236

mickeyrat

seems important.....

https://www.threads.net/@sars_cov.2_covid_19/post/DCcUsEJTr0Y?xmt=AQGza6BC3MSUT65O87bpITy_ahExhiXVmJYIFIQ-J_Agcw

Choccoloccotide

More insight into RFK Jr and Trump plans for HHS. Clip is from Bill Maher show. 

https://x.com/VigilantFox/status/1857626646007644507

23scidoo

BF25394 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

That sounds so stupid and paranoid.  

Let's try this a different way.  Do you believe that parents that send their children to public schools should be mandated to have those children vaccinated against measles, mumps and polio?

Yes, b/c those vaccines’ development went through much more scrutiny and oversight than the supposed Covid vaccine did. The Covid vaccine was forced upon the populace by skipping over steps that were not skipped before in the development of those 3 vaccines.  Big Pharma also hid data from vax trials from the public and still do to this day.  One of Trump’s biggest missteps was Op warp speed.

None of what you say here is true. The COVID vaccines went through full trials, and there have been billions of doses administered in the real world without any meaningful side effects. (Please don't tell me about myocarditis; rates of myocarditis are higher among those infected with COVID than among vaccine recipients.) The vaccines were not forced upon anyone. No one was forced to receive a COVID vaccine. There is a difference between forcing someone to do something and giving them an incentive to do something. Operation Warp Speed was one of the only things Trump deserves credit for.

No one forced to receive the vaccine??.. you must be kidding, right??..

23scidoo

BF25394 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering! 

It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus.  Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.  

Again, none of this is true. 

You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..

mrussel1

23scidoo said:

BF25394 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

That sounds so stupid and paranoid.  

Let's try this a different way.  Do you believe that parents that send their children to public schools should be mandated to have those children vaccinated against measles, mumps and polio?

Yes, b/c those vaccines’ development went through much more scrutiny and oversight than the supposed Covid vaccine did. The Covid vaccine was forced upon the populace by skipping over steps that were not skipped before in the development of those 3 vaccines.  Big Pharma also hid data from vax trials from the public and still do to this day.  One of Trump’s biggest missteps was Op warp speed.

None of what you say here is true. The COVID vaccines went through full trials, and there have been billions of doses administered in the real world without any meaningful side effects. (Please don't tell me about myocarditis; rates of myocarditis are higher among those infected with COVID than among vaccine recipients.) The vaccines were not forced upon anyone. No one was forced to receive a COVID vaccine. There is a difference between forcing someone to do something and giving them an incentive to do something. Operation Warp Speed was one of the only things Trump deserves credit for.

No one forced to receive the vaccine??.. you must be kidding, right??..

He’s not talking about Greece. 

BF25394

23scidoo said:

BF25394 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

That sounds so stupid and paranoid.  

Let's try this a different way.  Do you believe that parents that send their children to public schools should be mandated to have those children vaccinated against measles, mumps and polio?

Yes, b/c those vaccines’ development went through much more scrutiny and oversight than the supposed Covid vaccine did. The Covid vaccine was forced upon the populace by skipping over steps that were not skipped before in the development of those 3 vaccines.  Big Pharma also hid data from vax trials from the public and still do to this day.  One of Trump’s biggest missteps was Op warp speed.

None of what you say here is true. The COVID vaccines went through full trials, and there have been billions of doses administered in the real world without any meaningful side effects. (Please don't tell me about myocarditis; rates of myocarditis are higher among those infected with COVID than among vaccine recipients.) The vaccines were not forced upon anyone. No one was forced to receive a COVID vaccine. There is a difference between forcing someone to do something and giving them an incentive to do something. Operation Warp Speed was one of the only things Trump deserves credit for.

No one forced to receive the vaccine??.. you must be kidding, right??..

Please identify a single adult in the U.S. that was forced to receive the vaccine.

BF25394

23scidoo said:

BF25394 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering! 

It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus.  Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.  

Again, none of this is true. 

You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..

Please specify your personal experience in support of this claim.

HughFreakingDillon

BF25394 said:

23scidoo said:

BF25394 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

That sounds so stupid and paranoid.  

Let's try this a different way.  Do you believe that parents that send their children to public schools should be mandated to have those children vaccinated against measles, mumps and polio?

Yes, b/c those vaccines’ development went through much more scrutiny and oversight than the supposed Covid vaccine did. The Covid vaccine was forced upon the populace by skipping over steps that were not skipped before in the development of those 3 vaccines.  Big Pharma also hid data from vax trials from the public and still do to this day.  One of Trump’s biggest missteps was Op warp speed.

None of what you say here is true. The COVID vaccines went through full trials, and there have been billions of doses administered in the real world without any meaningful side effects. (Please don't tell me about myocarditis; rates of myocarditis are higher among those infected with COVID than among vaccine recipients.) The vaccines were not forced upon anyone. No one was forced to receive a COVID vaccine. There is a difference between forcing someone to do something and giving them an incentive to do something. Operation Warp Speed was one of the only things Trump deserves credit for.

No one forced to receive the vaccine??.. you must be kidding, right??..

Please identify a single adult in the U.S. that was forced to receive the vaccine.

just to clarify, his idea of "forced" is "you get it or you lose your job". To me that's not forced, that's still a choice you are given. To me, forced is being held down and administered a drug against your will. 

nicknyr15

HughFreakingDillon said:

BF25394 said:

23scidoo said:

BF25394 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

mrussel1 said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.newsweek.com/rfk-jr-vaccine-ban-donald-trump-1986441

Gtfoh with Newsweek.  That’s nothing but a deep state propaganda outlet.  

That sounds so stupid and paranoid.  

Let's try this a different way.  Do you believe that parents that send their children to public schools should be mandated to have those children vaccinated against measles, mumps and polio?

Yes, b/c those vaccines’ development went through much more scrutiny and oversight than the supposed Covid vaccine did. The Covid vaccine was forced upon the populace by skipping over steps that were not skipped before in the development of those 3 vaccines.  Big Pharma also hid data from vax trials from the public and still do to this day.  One of Trump’s biggest missteps was Op warp speed.

None of what you say here is true. The COVID vaccines went through full trials, and there have been billions of doses administered in the real world without any meaningful side effects. (Please don't tell me about myocarditis; rates of myocarditis are higher among those infected with COVID than among vaccine recipients.) The vaccines were not forced upon anyone. No one was forced to receive a COVID vaccine. There is a difference between forcing someone to do something and giving them an incentive to do something. Operation Warp Speed was one of the only things Trump deserves credit for.

No one forced to receive the vaccine??.. you must be kidding, right??..

Please identify a single adult in the U.S. that was forced to receive the vaccine.

just to clarify, his idea of "forced" is "you get it or you lose your job". To me that's not forced, that's still a choice you are given. To me, forced is being held down and administered a drug against your will. 

I am def not on that posters side but taking away someone’s livelihood or career is as closed to forced as it gets. 

lastexitlondon

It was forced here on NHS staff as far as lose your job and income or take a vaccine 

HughFreakingDillon

Mine was also a condition of employment. Not forced. Just like when your kids have to get vaccines or they can't go to school. We've been over this. It's not forced. There are conditions all over the place. Just like the supermarket says you can't come in if you aren't wearing shoes. They aren't forcing you to wear shoes. Stay shoeless all you want. Just not here. It's a condition. 

No one if forcing you to stop at a red light. But it's a condition of keeping your license/staying alive. And keeping others safe. 

nicknyr15

HughFreakingDillon said:

Mine was also a condition of employment. Not forced. Just like when your kids have to get vaccines or they can't go to school. We've been over this. It's not forced. There are conditions all over the place. Just like the supermarket says you can't come in if you aren't wearing shoes. They aren't forcing you to wear shoes. Stay shoeless all you want. Just not here. It's a condition. 

No one if forcing you to stop at a red light. But it's a condition of keeping your license/staying alive. And keeping others safe. 

I just don’t think taking away your livelihood or career is the same as those things. 

HughFreakingDillon

it's not about being "equal" choices. But it's still a choice.