when i bought the tix to that particular show, it was only one simple option, buy ticket or not. i wanted to go , so i figured at worst I'd just hang in the way back away from anyone. out of curiousity i just emailed the venue and asked if they had any ADA accommodations, explaining why.
when i bought the tix to that particular show, it was only one simple option, buy ticket or not. i wanted to go , so i figured at worst I'd just hang in the way back away from anyone. out of curiousity i just emailed the venue and asked if they had any ADA accommodations, explaining why.
Ok. Gotcha. Totally appreciate you sharing that advice with everyone. I know I'm not the only person on this forum who has questions about ADA accommodations. So this is helpful.
Just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who replied or commented on this topic. All of you offered some sort of insight and knowledge with regard to questions and concerns many of us have about ADA accommodations, public safety, personal responsibility, and, y'all gave some generally good advice.
I respect all of you for taking time to do so; I respect those who offered corrections just as much as those who agreed. I appreciate the comments that made me think deeper, as well as, the comments that made me consider different perspectives.
All of you were very respectful in your responses. And, for that, I'm grateful to have interacted with all of you. As I shut down my mind for today and reflect upon this discussion thread; I want to conclude our discussion by bringing the conversation to full-circle closure.
TEN CLUB HEARTS ARE UNITED AND MORN THOSE WHO WERE INVOLVED, INJURED, OR TRAGICALLY LOST THEIR LIVES AT AN EVENT WHERE THEY ONLY EXPECTED TO HAVE FUN. WE'RE SADDENED THAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF YOU.
AS YOU MOVE FORWARD FROM YESTERDAY"S EVENTS, JUST KNOW WE LOVE YOU!
Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities. Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people? Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival. I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges.
Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities. Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people? Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival. I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges.
Ok. That was a response to a particular person's question. That response was not the aim or goal of this thread. My personal wants and wishes are not the subject matter. Stick to the subject if you cannot handle or respect particular side discussion that may have stemmed from the original post.
I was asked a question and I answered the person with as much thoughtfulness as possible. If you cannot respect that measure of thoughtfulness, then dismiss yourself from the conversation entirely. Thank you.
So to answer your questions as I did for everyone else; NO -- I am not comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people. Reread the original discussion. You missed quite a bit. Feel some empathy, rather than look for spin. It speaks volumes of one's character when empathy is at the tip of their tongue, rather than passive-aggressive fallacies.
Not even going to address the last two statements because they're completely ludicrous.
There’s way more to this story and the deaths didn’t result from the footage being shown everywhere that occured EARLIER IN THE DAY.
People dropping like flies and convulsing has nothing to do with a “crowd surge”.
But what’s more to be expected from a Kardashian Enterprise production?
I'm sure there is way more to the story. Again, I wasn't there. I'm only expressing what my heart felt when I read the article. I've been in crowds that surged and it was intense. I've also been pulled from the frontline at Less Than Jake and started vomiting immediately on security...... so yes, heat and compression can cause a heat-stroke, elevated blood pressure, and then, add that to low blood sugar and perfuse sweating. I don't know how many of you have a medical background, but yes, a crowd surge can cause conditions that are conducive for seizures and cardiac arrest.
I don't want to invalidate or validate this tragedy based on whether it was a Kardashian Enterprise production, or not. It's simply a tragedy. Period.
Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities. Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people? Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival. I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges.
Ok. That was a response to a particular person's question. That response was not the aim or goal of this thread. My personal wants and wishes are not the subject matter. Stick to the subject if you cannot handle or respect particular side discussion that may have stemmed from the original post.
I was asked a question and I answered the person with as much thoughtfulness as possible. If you cannot respect that measure of thoughtfulness, then dismiss yourself from the conversation entirely. Thank you.
So to answer your questions as I did for everyone else; NO -- I am not comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people. Reread the original discussion. You missed quite a bit. Feel some empathy, rather than look for spin. It speaks volumes of one's character when empathy is at the tip of their tongue, rather than passive-aggressive fallacies.
Not even going to address the last two statements because they're completely ludicrous.
Ah your thoughtfulness is on point and your passion as well. No gripe there. Empathy yes. I read it all, make no mistake I am an attorney. I support your cause BIG TIME. That said, it is apples and oranges. Ah fallacies and passive agressive. Maybe u went to Brown?
Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities. Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people? Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival. I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges.
Ok. That was a response to a particular person's question. That response was not the aim or goal of this thread. My personal wants and wishes are not the subject matter. Stick to the subject if you cannot handle or respect particular side discussion that may have stemmed from the original post.
I was asked a question and I answered the person with as much thoughtfulness as possible. If you cannot respect that measure of thoughtfulness, then dismiss yourself from the conversation entirely. Thank you.
So to answer your questions as I did for everyone else; NO -- I am not comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people. Reread the original discussion. You missed quite a bit. Feel some empathy, rather than look for spin. It speaks volumes of one's character when empathy is at the tip of their tongue, rather than passive-aggressive fallacies.
Not even going to address the last two statements because they're completely ludicrous.
Ah your thoughtfulness is on point and your passion as well. No gripe there. Empathy yes. I read it all, make no mistake I am an attorney. I support your cause BIG TIME. That said, it is apples and oranges. Ah fallacies and passive agressive. Maybe u went to Brown?
You're an attorney?! Maybe. Maybe not.
Me, I like to fly kites during hurricanes. Who cares, right? We were all good until that final line. You almost flattered me to the point of forgiving your last set of comments, but then, you went sideways with that remark and dug your heels in.
Do you often engage in passive belittlement, as an attorney, based on the final statement at hand? Does your job title make you feel superior to others? What if I told you--NO-- I went to Harvard or Yale. Would you be impressed?! Would that make you feel warm and cozy inside? Would I then be a member of YOUR exclusive VIP club, or would you feel more entitled to talk down to me if I went to Brown..... or maybe North Carolina State University; double major in molecular biology and applied chemistry, minors in biotech, mathematics, and mandarin chinese? Graduated summa cum laude, with more tassels around my neck than your grandmother's living room curtains. Want my pre-concussion resume/CV too?
Just want to clarify exactly what you are saying to me with a total of four and 1/3 words. Considering you're messing with a disabled person who does have significant brain damage and is not afraid to frog-march you into a verbal pond; What's your next dig?
With that etched in stone -- this isn't an either/or issue. It's a complex issue with many facets of social entanglement. We're not separating apples and oranges here, because the same diseases that infect apple tress can also infect orange trees, pear trees, and cherry trees alike. This discussion is not about low-hanging fruit. It's about being able to see the infected forest beyond the low-hanging fruit. OK? We clear on that? So you go play with your apples and oranges, and leave us to discuss non-binary, complex social issues and solutions in a more respectful and less condescending way. At least people are offering suggestion, keeping an open heart and mind, just simply listening to all ideas whether good or bad. That's more than I can say about you at this point. Thank you.
So. I'm going to ask you one final time to dismiss yourself from the discussion until you have something to offer that doesn't conclude as a personal dig at me, or another lame attempt to conflate the issues into nonsense via your mosaic of disjointed thoughts. I'm sure you mean well and want to participate in a positive manner, but you're coming off in such a way that I've got to correct YOUR basic approach on MY thread. Once we sort that out-- how to respect one another-- then maybe we can learn something from each other. But if you're just stopping by to continue personal digs, then I'm going to have to show you to the LAST EXIT.
You're the first person on this thread to behave this way since the post launched; so I'm going to assume that you're either under the influence or simply engaging in target practice. Maybe you're a prosecutor rather than a defense attorney. Whichever. I really don't care at this point because you came off like a chocolate starfish. This discussion is NOT FOR YOU at this time. This discussion is for TC HEARTS UNITE FOR ASTROWORLD only. Stick to the message of love and compassion...... or leave.
Maybe tomorrow you'll be in a different frame of mind; or take some time to consider how you didn't offer anything to this discussion regarding the initial subject at hand, as well as, the tragedy many empaths felt; but, rather you're taking personal digs at the author who simply wanted to share love with these people, and make some suggestions, bring awareness for change that is advantageous to all people. Don't know why you're here. Read the room.
Warning? Thats funny. I did offer something to the discussion. It's wrong to compare the death of 8 people to the plight of disabled seeking better experiences at music festivals. That is all. You dont like it. Sorry about that. Yes, I commented on your prose but not your person, and I cannot say the same of you.
As someone who’s in this industry my advice to Pearl Jam would be to stop playing festivals for the time being to avoid a potential shit show.
Due to Covid and people not returning to work for multiple reasons most arenas and festivals are not working with a full stack of cards. Also Festivals hire outside security, a lot of them with not enough experience to handle a large crowd especially if it starts to go south.
Most arenas have there own security who are familiar with the venue as well as several locations in the venue for ADA. Where as festivals it’s constantly a issue.
If you wheelchair bound or have on going health issues you should not be attending a festival show for your own safety.
Arenas have a birds eye view and cameras everywhere to spot such issues like the ones that occurred over the weekend. Festivals do not.
Arena shows are safer and a lot more organized that incase if you did need assistance you would get that in a timely manner. As well as if people were to get hurt, sick etc security would be able to to notify the proper personal all the way up to the stage manager to stop the show if needed.
Not sure what waiting a few years would accomplish. I thought The Who in Cincy would be the end of GA shows, and that was many years ago. If festivals insist on GA at the very least they should have pricing tiers with thin bands of the crowd separated so the power of the crowd pushing forward can be limited.
Festivals are easy money, especially for the top 2 lines of a festival lineup. Ed even said it that the 2000 tour had a lot of festivals because it was a nice paycheck. The band knows tho that to agree they need to have a level of control on safety.
Not sure what waiting a few years would accomplish. I thought The Who in Cincy would be the end of GA shows, and that was many years ago. If festivals insist on GA at the very least they should have pricing tiers with thin bands of the crowd separated so the power of the crowd pushing forward can be limited.
GA makes sense if the size is limited. It can be dangerous for big out door shows if everyone decides they want to be close to the stage.
I agree. I don't know if you need pricing tiers, or just to install big solid metal barriers every 20 metres to make it impossible for all 50 thousand people to press forward unabated.. you could still have room the left/right sides of the barriers for people to advance, but long enough the whole crowd can't move forward.
It seems crazy these things don't get thought of. It's kind of moot with our music now because we've aged out of all trying to squeeze in as tight as we can (aka no mosh pits anymore), but for shows geared towards a younger audience you'd think they'd install this stuff, and learn from lessons of the past.
With the way a lot of artists price concerts these days, tiers wouldn’t matter. Also to have someone who is known for inciting riots and sneaking people in and telling people to attend, doesn’t help any situation
Comments
Just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who replied or commented on this topic. All of you offered some sort of insight and knowledge with regard to questions and concerns many of us have about ADA accommodations, public safety, personal responsibility, and, y'all gave some generally good advice.
I respect all of you for taking time to do so; I respect those who offered corrections just as much as those who agreed. I appreciate the comments that made me think deeper, as well as, the comments that made me consider different perspectives.
All of you were very respectful in your responses. And, for that, I'm grateful to have interacted with all of you. As I shut down my mind for today and reflect upon this discussion thread; I want to conclude our discussion by bringing the conversation to full-circle closure.
TEN CLUB HEARTS ARE UNITED AND MORN THOSE WHO WERE INVOLVED, INJURED, OR TRAGICALLY LOST THEIR LIVES AT AN EVENT WHERE THEY ONLY EXPECTED TO HAVE FUN. WE'RE SADDENED THAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF YOU.
AS YOU MOVE FORWARD FROM YESTERDAY"S EVENTS, JUST KNOW WE LOVE YOU!
People dropping like flies and convulsing has nothing to do with a “crowd surge”.
I was asked a question and I answered the person with as much thoughtfulness as possible. If you cannot respect that measure of thoughtfulness, then dismiss yourself from the conversation entirely. Thank you.
So to answer your questions as I did for everyone else; NO -- I am not comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people. Reread the original discussion. You missed quite a bit. Feel some empathy, rather than look for spin. It speaks volumes of one's character when empathy is at the tip of their tongue, rather than passive-aggressive fallacies.
Not even going to address the last two statements because they're completely ludicrous.
I don't want to invalidate or validate this tragedy based on whether it was a Kardashian Enterprise production, or not. It's simply a tragedy. Period.
Thanks for stopping by, Little Italy.
Ah your thoughtfulness is on point and your passion as well. No gripe there. Empathy yes. I read it all, make no mistake I am an attorney. I support your cause BIG TIME. That said, it is apples and oranges. Ah fallacies and passive agressive. Maybe u went to Brown?
Me, I like to fly kites during hurricanes. Who cares, right? We were all good until that final line. You almost flattered me to the point of forgiving your last set of comments, but then, you went sideways with that remark and dug your heels in.
Do you often engage in passive belittlement, as an attorney, based on the final statement at hand? Does your job title make you feel superior to others? What if I told you--NO-- I went to Harvard or Yale. Would you be impressed?! Would that make you feel warm and cozy inside? Would I then be a member of YOUR exclusive VIP club, or would you feel more entitled to talk down to me if I went to Brown..... or maybe North Carolina State University; double major in molecular biology and applied chemistry, minors in biotech, mathematics, and mandarin chinese? Graduated summa cum laude, with more tassels around my neck than your grandmother's living room curtains. Want my pre-concussion resume/CV too?
Just want to clarify exactly what you are saying to me with a total of four and 1/3 words. Considering you're messing with a disabled person who does have significant brain damage and is not afraid to frog-march you into a verbal pond; What's your next dig?
With that etched in stone -- this isn't an either/or issue. It's a complex issue with many facets of social entanglement. We're not separating apples and oranges here, because the same diseases that infect apple tress can also infect orange trees, pear trees, and cherry trees alike. This discussion is not about low-hanging fruit. It's about being able to see the infected forest beyond the low-hanging fruit. OK? We clear on that? So you go play with your apples and oranges, and leave us to discuss non-binary, complex social issues and solutions in a more respectful and less condescending way. At least people are offering suggestion, keeping an open heart and mind, just simply listening to all ideas whether good or bad. That's more than I can say about you at this point. Thank you.
So. I'm going to ask you one final time to dismiss yourself from the discussion until you have something to offer that doesn't conclude as a personal dig at me, or another lame attempt to conflate the issues into nonsense via your mosaic of disjointed thoughts. I'm sure you mean well and want to participate in a positive manner, but you're coming off in such a way that I've got to correct YOUR basic approach on MY thread. Once we sort that out-- how to respect one another-- then maybe we can learn something from each other. But if you're just stopping by to continue personal digs, then I'm going to have to show you to the LAST EXIT.
You're the first person on this thread to behave this way since the post launched; so I'm going to assume that you're either under the influence or simply engaging in target practice. Maybe you're a prosecutor rather than a defense attorney. Whichever. I really don't care at this point because you came off like a chocolate starfish. This discussion is NOT FOR YOU at this time. This discussion is for TC HEARTS UNITE FOR ASTROWORLD only. Stick to the message of love and compassion...... or leave.
Maybe tomorrow you'll be in a different frame of mind; or take some time to consider how you didn't offer anything to this discussion regarding the initial subject at hand, as well as, the tragedy many empaths felt; but, rather you're taking personal digs at the author who simply wanted to share love with these people, and make some suggestions, bring awareness for change that is advantageous to all people. Don't know why you're here. Read the room.
Final warning, Get_Right. Thank you.
Most arenas have there own security who are familiar with the venue as well as several locations in the venue for ADA. Where as festivals it’s constantly a issue.
If you wheelchair bound or have on going health issues you should not be attending a festival show for your own safety.
Arenas have a birds eye view and cameras everywhere to spot such issues like the ones that occurred over the weekend. Festivals do not.
Arena shows are safer and a lot more organized that incase if you did need assistance you would get that in a timely manner. As well as if people were to get hurt, sick etc security would be able to to notify the proper personal all the way up to the stage manager to stop the show if needed.
Stay safe ✌️