TC Hearts unite for Astroworld Fest Tragedy

jgmoch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZss1p_NKSQ

jgmoch

jgmoch said:

Don't try to do it
Don't try to kill your time, oh
Yeah, you might do it
Then you can't change your mind, oh
You've gotta hold on to your time
Till you break through these times of trouble

jgmoch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=163xAF-3HKw

jgmoch

RatherStarved said:

Just adding that both SHN and Ohana had ADA designated areas from which to watch the show.  I am not certain one way or the other if the arrangements were suitable for food/drink and restrooms but for sure there were dedicated viewing areas.  

Thank you for updating and verifying that fact. So do TC members have to request special tickets or accommodations beforehand? Or do they take care of you at the venue? I've never seen tickets for 'disability seating' so this is all kind of new to me.

I mean-- to be honest. After being homeless, in Seattle, I couldn't careless about a restroom personally. I'll pee right where I'm standing for all I care. No shame here, not after that experience. It's just that other people may not share a similar level of shamelessness in that regard. So this is helpful information for anyone who has similar questions. Restroom and food access is a big fricken deal for disabled folks, especially if they don't have an able-bodied companion to assist them.

Really appreciate your update. Have a great day, RatherStarved!!

jgmoch

If I missed a response, or you wish to chat on a deeper level without being subject to scrutiny. Feel free to send a private message to me. I'll reply just the same.

Spartanacus

MayDay10 said:

Such a sad and scary situation.  Just terrible.

A major key is the artists' role.  EV watches the crowd like a hawk and if there is something he sees that he doesn't like, he gets it corrected.

Apparently this Travis scott has shows that are pretty crazy/rowdy in the crowd.  Probably tough to tell the difference.  He probably never expected this in 1000000 years and isn't watchful.  

Good for Eddie, but I'd prefer they hire an additional security guard that is on stage or above the stage with a bird's eye view to assist. They should be able to help people without stopping the show. This way Ed can do his thing without worrying in the back of his mind.

Folks...me thinks PJ is nearing the end with all things considered. Let's just hope they give us our 2020 Spring tour first.

jgmoch

Spartanacus said:

MayDay10 said:

Such a sad and scary situation.  Just terrible.

A major key is the artists' role.  EV watches the crowd like a hawk and if there is something he sees that he doesn't like, he gets it corrected.

Apparently this Travis scott has shows that are pretty crazy/rowdy in the crowd.  Probably tough to tell the difference.  He probably never expected this in 1000000 years and isn't watchful.  

Good for Eddie, but I'd prefer they hire an additional security guard that is on stage or above the stage with a bird's eye view to assist. They should be able to help people without stopping the show. This way Ed can do his thing without worrying in the back of his mind.

Folks...me thinks PJ is nearing the end with all things considered. Let's just hope they give us our 2020 Spring tour first.

You're correct. He shouldn't be so preoccupied and worried on stage. And, floor security cannot always see things happening beyond their line of sight. You definitely raised some good points, Spartanacus.

Psst... just between us.... me also thinks PJ is nearing the end with all things considered. I hope everyone gets to use their tickets in 2022. But, if not, this is one hell of a story to tell our grandchildren. I would compare it to the story my parents told me about Elvis. 

Elvis was scheduled to play in Fayetteville, NC, a couple of weeks before he passed. My parents never refunded the tickets and still have them till this day. I guess what I'm saying is -- shit happens. Now how do we deal with it and move forward, and what did we learn from it?

jgmoch

cblock4life said:

jgmoch said:

Foriginal Sin said:

Scott stopped the show 3x prior to it stopping completely. Why didn’t it get resolved at the 1st stop, he knew there was an issue. He could have said back up or I’m not playing anymore. Done. Just a shitty situation overall. 

I think you just put the icing on the cake of common sense. Absolutely correct. Thank you for commenting and saying this.

Mic dropped here, folks. 

Have a great day, Foriginal Sin!!

Thought they said if they stopped the show there would be a riot which would cause more injury. Encouraging people to attend (crash) the concerts is a huge red flag…..there’s capacity limits for a reason.  Don’t know if it would have mattered here but it absolutely does inside. 

Once we arrive at a place where artists literally have to negotiate peace with a mob, the show is over. Period. Not sure how you dismantle a huge event like this without causing an uproar, especially since it was already in an uproar.

Yeah-- definitely a red flag. These were not Woodstock hippies crashing the show to take mud baths. Tragic and sad. 

jpgoegel

jgmoch said:

Thank you for updating and verifying that fact. So do TC members have to request special tickets or accommodations beforehand? Or do they take care of you at the venue? I've never seen tickets for 'disability seating' so this is all kind of new to me.

I mean-- to be honest. After being homeless, in Seattle, I couldn't careless about a restroom personally. I'll pee right where I'm standing for all I care. No shame here, not after that experience. It's just that other people may not share a similar level of shamelessness in that regard. So this is helpful information for anyone who has similar questions. Restroom and food access is a big fricken deal for disabled folks, especially if they don't have an able-bodied companion to assist them.

Really appreciate your update. Have a great day, RatherStarved!!

Pretty sure, every PJ show I've bought tickets for, there is an 'do you require assistance' seats.  I could be wrong though.   I only started looking for that option this summer/fall as I was recovering from an Achilles tendon rupture and 95% of the shows I go to are mostly punk related and there's significant mosh pits and circle pits (which cause surges).  Not being able to fully walk properly and being warned about getting kicked/stepped on in that area of injury, i started looking at the ADA seating options, and if there wasnt I contacted the venue.  The one that did not have an option, was an outdoor show with The Bronx, DKM and Rancid in a parking lot,  Which is horrible dangerous on it's own, but they were very nice about responding and accommodating.   It's anecdotal but I have no problems asking anyone anything, as the worst anyone can say is no.

jgmoch

jpgoegel said:

jgmoch said:

Thank you for updating and verifying that fact. So do TC members have to request special tickets or accommodations beforehand? Or do they take care of you at the venue? I've never seen tickets for 'disability seating' so this is all kind of new to me.

I mean-- to be honest. After being homeless, in Seattle, I couldn't careless about a restroom personally. I'll pee right where I'm standing for all I care. No shame here, not after that experience. It's just that other people may not share a similar level of shamelessness in that regard. So this is helpful information for anyone who has similar questions. Restroom and food access is a big fricken deal for disabled folks, especially if they don't have an able-bodied companion to assist them.

Really appreciate your update. Have a great day, RatherStarved!!

Pretty sure, every PJ show I've bought tickets for, there is an 'do you require assistance' seats.  I could be wrong though.   I only started looking for that option this summer/fall as I was recovering from an Achilles tendon rupture and 95% of the shows I go to are mostly punk related and there's significant mosh pits and circle pits (which cause surges).  Not being able to fully walk properly and being warned about getting kicked/stepped on in that area of injury, i started looking at the ADA seating options, and if there wasnt I contacted the venue.  The one that did not have an option, was an outdoor show with The Bronx, DKM and Rancid in a parking lot,  Which is horrible dangerous on it's own, but they were very nice about responding and accommodating.   It's anecdotal but I have no problems asking anyone anything, as the worst anyone can say is no.

I remember seeing a section a The Home Shows reserved for disabled attendees. But yeah, like you said, punk rock shows are a whole different beast entirely. Cannot figure out why punk bands like to play shows in asphalt parking lots. Still a mystery to me. I guess it's cheaper to rent out an abandoned lot?

So do you typically contact the venue after you purchase tickets, or before? That's kind of where I'm confused; because shows sellout so quickly, I do not know whether to purchase first and call later, or call first and possibly not get a seat period. 

Man, I bet that rupture sucked donkey-balls. I've been told that is one of the most painful injuries a person can sustain. Glad to hear you're mobile again. Glad to know you're out there taking calculated risks, not staying down and out. Much respect for pushing through.

Thanks for those comments and advice, jpgoegel. Have a great evening!

jpgoegel

when i bought the tix to that particular show, it was only one simple option, buy ticket or not.   i wanted to go , so i figured at worst I'd just hang in the way back away from anyone.   out of curiousity i just emailed the venue and asked if they had any ADA accommodations, explaining why.   

jgmoch

jpgoegel said:

when i bought the tix to that particular show, it was only one simple option, buy ticket or not.   i wanted to go , so i figured at worst I'd just hang in the way back away from anyone.   out of curiousity i just emailed the venue and asked if they had any ADA accommodations, explaining why.   

Ok. Gotcha. Totally appreciate you sharing that advice with everyone. I know I'm not the only person on this forum who has questions about ADA accommodations. So this is helpful. 

jgmoch

Just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who replied or commented on this topic. All of you offered some sort of insight and knowledge with regard to questions and concerns many of us have about ADA accommodations, public safety, personal responsibility, and, y'all gave some generally good advice.

I respect all of you for taking time to do so; I respect those who offered corrections just as much as those who agreed. I appreciate the comments that made me think deeper, as well as, the comments that made me consider different perspectives. 

All of you were very respectful in your responses. And, for that, I'm grateful to have interacted with all of you. As I shut down my mind for today and reflect upon this discussion thread; I want to conclude our discussion by bringing the conversation to full-circle closure.

TEN CLUB HEARTS ARE UNITED AND MORN THOSE WHO WERE INVOLVED, INJURED, OR TRAGICALLY LOST THEIR LIVES AT AN EVENT WHERE THEY ONLY EXPECTED TO HAVE FUN. WE'RE SADDENED THAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF YOU.

AS YOU MOVE FORWARD FROM YESTERDAY"S EVENTS, JUST KNOW WE LOVE YOU! 

Get_Right

Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities.  Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people?  Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival.  I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges. 

Little Italy

There’s way more to this story and the deaths didn’t result from the footage being shown everywhere that occured EARLIER IN THE DAY.

People dropping like flies and convulsing has nothing to do with a “crowd surge”.

But what’s more to be expected from a Kardashian Enterprise production?

jgmoch

Get_Right said:

Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities.  Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people?  Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival.  I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges. 

Ok. That was a response to a particular person's question. That response was not the aim or goal of this thread. My personal wants and wishes are not the subject matter. Stick to the subject if you cannot handle or respect particular side discussion that may have stemmed from the original post.

I was asked a question and I answered the person with as much thoughtfulness as possible. If you cannot respect that measure of thoughtfulness, then dismiss yourself from the conversation entirely. Thank you. 

So to answer your questions as I did for everyone else; NO -- I am not comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people. Reread the original discussion. You missed quite a bit. Feel some empathy, rather than look for spin. It speaks volumes of one's character when empathy is at the tip of their tongue, rather than passive-aggressive fallacies.

Not even going to address the last two statements because they're completely ludicrous.

jgmoch

Little Italy said:

There’s way more to this story and the deaths didn’t result from the footage being shown everywhere that occured EARLIER IN THE DAY.

People dropping like flies and convulsing has nothing to do with a “crowd surge”.

But what’s more to be expected from a Kardashian Enterprise production?

I'm sure there is way more to the story. Again, I wasn't there. I'm only expressing what my heart felt when I read the article. I've been in crowds that surged and it was intense. I've also been pulled from the frontline at Less Than Jake and started vomiting immediately on security...... so yes, heat and compression can cause a heat-stroke, elevated blood pressure, and then, add that to low blood sugar and perfuse sweating. I don't know how many of you have a medical background, but yes, a crowd surge can cause conditions that are conducive for seizures and cardiac arrest.

I don't want to invalidate or validate this tragedy based on whether it was a Kardashian Enterprise production, or not. It's simply a tragedy. Period.

Thanks for stopping by, Little Italy.

Get_Right

jgmoch said:

Get_Right said:

Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities.  Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people?  Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival.  I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges. 

Ok. That was a response to a particular person's question. That response was not the aim or goal of this thread. My personal wants and wishes are not the subject matter. Stick to the subject if you cannot handle or respect particular side discussion that may have stemmed from the original post.

I was asked a question and I answered the person with as much thoughtfulness as possible. If you cannot respect that measure of thoughtfulness, then dismiss yourself from the conversation entirely. Thank you. 

So to answer your questions as I did for everyone else; NO -- I am not comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people. Reread the original discussion. You missed quite a bit. Feel some empathy, rather than look for spin. It speaks volumes of one's character when empathy is at the tip of their tongue, rather than passive-aggressive fallacies.

Not even going to address the last two statements because they're completely ludicrous.

Ah your thoughtfulness is on point and your passion as well. No gripe there. Empathy yes. I read it all, make no mistake I am an attorney. I support your cause BIG TIME. That said, it is apples and oranges. Ah fallacies and passive agressive. Maybe u went to Brown?

jgmoch

Get_Right said:

jgmoch said:

Get_Right said:

Not sure I see a connection between an event where the organizers were grossly negligent (allegedly) and better accommodations for folks with disabilities.  Are you comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people?  Festivals can be physically challenging for even the most able bodied person. Please do not compare this tragedy to you wanting VIP like accommodations (you said that) so you can comfortably attend a music festival.  I feel for those with any physical challenges and I want you to be able to live your life to the fullest, but this is apples and oranges. 

Ok. That was a response to a particular person's question. That response was not the aim or goal of this thread. My personal wants and wishes are not the subject matter. Stick to the subject if you cannot handle or respect particular side discussion that may have stemmed from the original post.

I was asked a question and I answered the person with as much thoughtfulness as possible. If you cannot respect that measure of thoughtfulness, then dismiss yourself from the conversation entirely. Thank you. 

So to answer your questions as I did for everyone else; NO -- I am not comparing the lack of accommodations at festivals to the negligence that resulted in the death of 8 people. Reread the original discussion. You missed quite a bit. Feel some empathy, rather than look for spin. It speaks volumes of one's character when empathy is at the tip of their tongue, rather than passive-aggressive fallacies.

Not even going to address the last two statements because they're completely ludicrous.

Ah your thoughtfulness is on point and your passion as well. No gripe there. Empathy yes. I read it all, make no mistake I am an attorney. I support your cause BIG TIME. That said, it is apples and oranges. Ah fallacies and passive agressive. Maybe u went to Brown?

You're an attorney?! Maybe. Maybe not.

Me, I like to fly kites during hurricanes. Who cares, right? We were all good until that final line. You almost flattered me to the point of forgiving your last set of comments, but then, you went sideways with that remark and dug your heels in.

Do you often engage in passive belittlement, as an attorney, based on the final statement at hand? Does your job title make you feel superior to others? What if I told you--NO-- I went to Harvard or Yale. Would you be impressed?! Would that make you feel warm and cozy inside? Would I then be a member of YOUR exclusive VIP club, or would you feel more entitled to talk down to me if I went to Brown..... or maybe North Carolina State University; double major in molecular biology and applied chemistry, minors in biotech, mathematics, and mandarin chinese? Graduated summa cum laude, with more tassels around my neck than your grandmother's living room curtains. Want my pre-concussion resume/CV too?

Just want to clarify exactly what you are saying to me with a total of four and 1/3 words. Considering you're messing with a disabled person who does have significant brain damage and is not afraid to frog-march you into a verbal pond; What's your next dig?

With that etched in stone -- this isn't an either/or issue. It's a complex issue with many facets of social entanglement. We're not separating apples and oranges here, because the same diseases that infect apple tress can also infect orange trees, pear trees, and cherry trees alike. This discussion is not about low-hanging fruit. It's about being able to see the infected forest beyond the low-hanging fruit. OK? We clear on that? So you go play with your apples and oranges, and leave us to discuss non-binary, complex social issues and solutions in a more respectful and less condescending way. At least people are offering suggestion, keeping an open heart and mind, just simply listening to all ideas whether good or bad. That's more than I can say about you at this point. Thank you.

So. I'm going to ask you one final time to dismiss yourself from the discussion until you have something to offer that doesn't conclude as a personal dig at me, or another lame attempt to conflate the issues into nonsense via your mosaic of disjointed thoughts. I'm sure you mean well and want to participate in a positive manner, but you're coming off in such a way that I've got to correct YOUR basic approach on MY thread. Once we sort that out-- how to respect one another-- then maybe we can learn something from each other. But if you're just stopping by to continue personal digs, then I'm going to have to show you to the LAST EXIT. 

You're the first person on this thread to behave this way since the post launched; so I'm going to assume that you're either under the influence or simply engaging in target practice. Maybe you're a prosecutor rather than a defense attorney. Whichever. I really don't care at this point because you came off like a chocolate starfish. This discussion is NOT FOR YOU at this time. This discussion is for TC HEARTS UNITE FOR ASTROWORLD only. Stick to the message of love and compassion...... or leave. 

Maybe tomorrow you'll be in a different frame of mind; or take some time to consider how you didn't offer anything to this discussion regarding the initial subject at hand, as well as, the tragedy many empaths felt; but, rather you're taking personal digs at the author who simply wanted to share love with these people, and make some suggestions, bring awareness for change that is advantageous to all people. Don't know why you're here. Read the room.

Final warning, Get_Right. Thank you. 

Get_Right

Warning? Thats funny.  I did offer something to the discussion.  It's wrong to compare the death of 8 people to the plight of disabled seeking better experiences at music festivals.  That is all.  You dont like it.  Sorry about that. Yes, I commented on your prose but not your person, and I cannot say the same of you.