Viruses / Vaccines

HughFreakingDillon

AW124797 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think what A-dub is saying is that when the vaccine effectiveness first was reported at up to 90%, yes, people were rejoicing. However, once we learned more about how the effectiveness wanes, but also can be thrown for a loop, depending on the next variant, so it was kind of a false hope that we were given. (however, we were given that hope since that was all that was known at the time)

I think he/she is speaking somewhat off the cuff about it, using adjectives that are absolute, when we should know they don't mean it literally. 

correct me if I'm wrong, however. 

Correct! I'm tired of mandates and propaganda with this inferior product - current vaccine. Hopefully, they'll come up with something better in the near future. Till then, "think for yourself and question authority."

inferior product?

JB16057

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think what A-dub is saying is that when the vaccine effectiveness first was reported at up to 90%, yes, people were rejoicing. However, once we learned more about how the effectiveness wanes, but also can be thrown for a loop, depending on the next variant, so it was kind of a false hope that we were given. (however, we were given that hope since that was all that was known at the time)

I think he/she is speaking somewhat off the cuff about it, using adjectives that are absolute, when we should know they don't mean it literally. 

correct me if I'm wrong, however. 

Correct! I'm tired of mandates and propaganda with this inferior product - current vaccine. Hopefully, they'll come up with something better in the near future. Till then, "think for yourself and question authority."

inferior product?

inferior product - current vaccine

mrussel1

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

@aw124797 Questions 1 and 2 are political.  Why is he asking the CDC about the arguments at SCOTUS?  And why ask why Georgetown hadn't cut their quarantine days from 10 to 5? Even if she had an opinion on the topics (I'm sure she does) it makes no sense for the CDC director to opine in her official capacity.  She's on the show to reinforce the CDC message.

And btw, you said you stopped reading after I said "political in nature".  It's literally in the last sentence.  

mrussel1

JB16057 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think what A-dub is saying is that when the vaccine effectiveness first was reported at up to 90%, yes, people were rejoicing. However, once we learned more about how the effectiveness wanes, but also can be thrown for a loop, depending on the next variant, so it was kind of a false hope that we were given. (however, we were given that hope since that was all that was known at the time)

I think he/she is speaking somewhat off the cuff about it, using adjectives that are absolute, when we should know they don't mean it literally. 

correct me if I'm wrong, however. 

Correct! I'm tired of mandates and propaganda with this inferior product - current vaccine. Hopefully, they'll come up with something better in the near future. Till then, "think for yourself and question authority."

inferior product?

inferior product - current vaccine

Was the product inferior before Omnicron?  If you say yes, you better have some really strong data to back up such a statement.  And also tell us about the superior product comparatively. 

Gern Blansten

I will take this inferior product over being on a ventilator.

I really can't give a better example then myself and my former (proud tRumpster and unvaxxed) business partner.  I'm vaccinated and probably skirt the risk of catching covid as much as anyone given that I go out to eat a lot, attend a lot of minor league hockey games, etc.

My ex partner just got home from a months stay in the hospital...three weeks of which he was on a ventilator.  The last I heard they were likely going to put him on a trache tube because he had been on the ventilator too long but his oxygen saturation was still too low. 

He is supposedly home now but will likely not be able to work until at least March.  Oh....and he has to use a walker to get around.

I'll take the inferior product all day long 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think what A-dub is saying is that when the vaccine effectiveness first was reported at up to 90%, yes, people were rejoicing. However, once we learned more about how the effectiveness wanes, but also can be thrown for a loop, depending on the next variant, so it was kind of a false hope that we were given. (however, we were given that hope since that was all that was known at the time)

I think he/she is speaking somewhat off the cuff about it, using adjectives that are absolute, when we should know they don't mean it literally. 

correct me if I'm wrong, however. 

Correct! I'm tired of mandates and propaganda with this inferior product - current vaccine. Hopefully, they'll come up with something better in the near future. Till then, "think for yourself and question authority."

inferior product?

If you've had one vaccine, you've had them all, right? There's Pfizer-BioNTech, Johnson & Johnson's janssen and my favorite vintage, all approved for use in the US, Mo-deeeeeeeeer-naaaaaaaaaaaa.

You can also get Sputnik, in Russia or your choice of 6 vaccines in China, including Sinovac and a few others. Even mix and match, if you prefer.

AW124797

mrussel1 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

@aw124797 Questions 1 and 2 are political.  Why is he asking the CDC about the arguments at SCOTUS?  And why ask why Georgetown hadn't cut their quarantine days from 10 to 5? Even if she had an opinion on the topics (I'm sure she does) it makes no sense for the CDC director to opine in her official capacity.  She's on the show to reinforce the CDC message.

And btw, you said you stopped reading after I said "political in nature".  It's literally in the last sentence.  

I said "lost interest." Different from "stopped reading." Seemed like a politically biased response.

Gern Blansten

https://twitter.com/nxthompson/status/1481025602496962564

AW124797

Gern Blansten said:

I will take this inferior product over being on a ventilator.

I really can't give a better example then myself and my former (proud tRumpster and unvaxxed) business partner.  I'm vaccinated and probably skirt the risk of catching covid as much as anyone given that I go out to eat a lot, attend a lot of minor league hockey games, etc.

My ex partner just got home from a months stay in the hospital...three weeks of which he was on a ventilator.  The last I heard they were likely going to put him on a trache tube because he had been on the ventilator too long but his oxygen saturation was still too low. 

He is supposedly home now but will likely not be able to work until at least March.  Oh....and he has to use a walker to get around.

I'll take the inferior product all day long 

Everybody has a story.

Gern Blansten

AW124797 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I will take this inferior product over being on a ventilator.

I really can't give a better example then myself and my former (proud tRumpster and unvaxxed) business partner.  I'm vaccinated and probably skirt the risk of catching covid as much as anyone given that I go out to eat a lot, attend a lot of minor league hockey games, etc.

My ex partner just got home from a months stay in the hospital...three weeks of which he was on a ventilator.  The last I heard they were likely going to put him on a trache tube because he had been on the ventilator too long but his oxygen saturation was still too low. 

He is supposedly home now but will likely not be able to work until at least March.  Oh....and he has to use a walker to get around.

I'll take the inferior product all day long 

Everybody has a story.

Unfortunately some people don't interpret data very well.

Halifax2TheMax

AW124797 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I will take this inferior product over being on a ventilator.

I really can't give a better example then myself and my former (proud tRumpster and unvaxxed) business partner.  I'm vaccinated and probably skirt the risk of catching covid as much as anyone given that I go out to eat a lot, attend a lot of minor league hockey games, etc.

My ex partner just got home from a months stay in the hospital...three weeks of which he was on a ventilator.  The last I heard they were likely going to put him on a trache tube because he had been on the ventilator too long but his oxygen saturation was still too low. 

He is supposedly home now but will likely not be able to work until at least March.  Oh....and he has to use a walker to get around.

I'll take the inferior product all day long 

Everybody has a story.

Except the dead. They leave that up to their living relatives.

mrussel1

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

@aw124797 Questions 1 and 2 are political.  Why is he asking the CDC about the arguments at SCOTUS?  And why ask why Georgetown hadn't cut their quarantine days from 10 to 5? Even if she had an opinion on the topics (I'm sure she does) it makes no sense for the CDC director to opine in her official capacity.  She's on the show to reinforce the CDC message.

And btw, you said you stopped reading after I said "political in nature".  It's literally in the last sentence.  

I said "lost interest." Different from "stopped reading." Seemed like a politically biased response.

You watch a political show and posted a political video.  But sure.  I actually detailed why I think her responses were good.  You've yet to detail which ones you thought you were wrong, inappropriate, etc. I asked you to detail them and you haven't.  

AW124797

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think what A-dub is saying is that when the vaccine effectiveness first was reported at up to 90%, yes, people were rejoicing. However, once we learned more about how the effectiveness wanes, but also can be thrown for a loop, depending on the next variant, so it was kind of a false hope that we were given. (however, we were given that hope since that was all that was known at the time)

I think he/she is speaking somewhat off the cuff about it, using adjectives that are absolute, when we should know they don't mean it literally. 

correct me if I'm wrong, however. 

Correct! I'm tired of mandates and propaganda with this inferior product - current vaccine. Hopefully, they'll come up with something better in the near future. Till then, "think for yourself and question authority."

inferior product?

inferior product - current vaccine

Was the product inferior before Omnicron?  If you say yes, you better have some really strong data to back up such a statement.  And also tell us about the superior product comparatively. 

Inferior to any other vaccine on the market. Besides flu vaccine, of course.

AW124797

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

@aw124797 Questions 1 and 2 are political.  Why is he asking the CDC about the arguments at SCOTUS?  And why ask why Georgetown hadn't cut their quarantine days from 10 to 5? Even if she had an opinion on the topics (I'm sure she does) it makes no sense for the CDC director to opine in her official capacity.  She's on the show to reinforce the CDC message.

And btw, you said you stopped reading after I said "political in nature".  It's literally in the last sentence.  

I said "lost interest." Different from "stopped reading." Seemed like a politically biased response.

You watch a political show and posted a political video.  But sure.  I actually detailed why I think her responses were good.  You've yet to detail which ones you thought you were wrong, inappropriate, etc. I asked you to detail them and you haven't.  

Because she gave the same answer to all of his questions - runaround of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. 

mfc2006

The fact that we even have a vaccine (and there are a few to choose from) is absolutely amazing. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Give me the inferior vaccine over dying any fucking day. There's my story.

AW124797

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think what A-dub is saying is that when the vaccine effectiveness first was reported at up to 90%, yes, people were rejoicing. However, once we learned more about how the effectiveness wanes, but also can be thrown for a loop, depending on the next variant, so it was kind of a false hope that we were given. (however, we were given that hope since that was all that was known at the time)

I think he/she is speaking somewhat off the cuff about it, using adjectives that are absolute, when we should know they don't mean it literally. 

correct me if I'm wrong, however. 

Correct! I'm tired of mandates and propaganda with this inferior product - current vaccine. Hopefully, they'll come up with something better in the near future. Till then, "think for yourself and question authority."

inferior product?

If you've had one vaccine, you've had them all, right? There's Pfizer-BioNTech, Johnson & Johnson's janssen and my favorite vintage, all approved for use in the US, Mo-deeeeeeeeer-naaaaaaaaaaaa.

You can also get Sputnik, in Russia or your choice of 6 vaccines in China, including Sinovac and a few others. Even mix and match, if you prefer.

Why bother?

oftenreading

PJNB said:

So my province in the next couple of weeks is going to go into level 3 lockdown meaning pretty much as strict as it gets. The reason will be that we hit 100 total cases of COVID in the hospital. That number has been going up the last couple of weeks(currently at 88) but icu and ventilator patients have been steady. My question here is now that we know roughly half of the patients in the hospital are not from COVID but with COVID should they all count towards that 100 or just the people that are in there being treated due to the virus?  A bed is a bed no matter what the reason but to tie patients that are in the hospital for other reasons as a means to put more severe lockdowns in place is wrong imo. 

The reality is that there is only so much bed capacity and only a limited number of options to try to reduce bed usage. Public health officials don't have options to change the potential number of people who might need a hospital bed due to a motor vehicle crash, an MI or stroke. They do have some options that can be used to affect the potential number of people who might need a hospital bed due to covid, and if bed capacity close to maximum then you use the levers that you have. 

Halifax2TheMax

AW124797 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think what A-dub is saying is that when the vaccine effectiveness first was reported at up to 90%, yes, people were rejoicing. However, once we learned more about how the effectiveness wanes, but also can be thrown for a loop, depending on the next variant, so it was kind of a false hope that we were given. (however, we were given that hope since that was all that was known at the time)

I think he/she is speaking somewhat off the cuff about it, using adjectives that are absolute, when we should know they don't mean it literally. 

correct me if I'm wrong, however. 

Correct! I'm tired of mandates and propaganda with this inferior product - current vaccine. Hopefully, they'll come up with something better in the near future. Till then, "think for yourself and question authority."

inferior product?

If you've had one vaccine, you've had them all, right? There's Pfizer-BioNTech, Johnson & Johnson's janssen and my favorite vintage, all approved for use in the US, Mo-deeeeeeeeer-naaaaaaaaaaaa.

You can also get Sputnik, in Russia or your choice of 6 vaccines in China, including Sinovac and a few others. Even mix and match, if you prefer.

Why bother?

Exactly. Going on 3 years in. Have fun! Live your life. I am.

AW124797

mfc2006 said:

The fact that we even have a vaccine (and there are a few to choose from) is absolutely amazing. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Give me the inferior vaccine over dying any fucking day. There's my story.

I know and I'm happy too, but can't force unfinished product on everybody. Freedom of choice.

Halifax2TheMax

oftenreading said:

PJNB said:

So my province in the next couple of weeks is going to go into level 3 lockdown meaning pretty much as strict as it gets. The reason will be that we hit 100 total cases of COVID in the hospital. That number has been going up the last couple of weeks(currently at 88) but icu and ventilator patients have been steady. My question here is now that we know roughly half of the patients in the hospital are not from COVID but with COVID should they all count towards that 100 or just the people that are in there being treated due to the virus?  A bed is a bed no matter what the reason but to tie patients that are in the hospital for other reasons as a means to put more severe lockdowns in place is wrong imo. 

The reality is that there is only so much bed capacity and only a limited number of options to try to reduce bed usage. Public health officials don't have options to change the potential number of people who might need a hospital bed due to a motor vehicle crash, an MI or stroke. They do have some options that can be used to affect the potential number of people who might need a hospital bed due to covid, and if bed capacity close to maximum then you use the levers that you have. 

Don't covid patients or those with covid have to be isolated and as such, it puts additional constraints on hospital bed capacities, resources and impacts staffing issues?