Viruses / Vaccines

brianlux

Just found out a friend of a family member,  a big Trump supporter, anti-mask, and anti-vacc, got COVID and died recently.   What a waste.  Rolls the dice because of a crazy political following, dies, leaves family members in mixture of grief, confusion, anger.  What the hell is it with some of the people?  Rhetorical question with a sad Darwin Award as the answer.  A total waste of a life.

Smellyman

brianlux said:

Just found out a friend of a family member,  a big Trump supporter, anti-mask, and anti-vacc, got COVID and died recently.   What a waste.  Rolls the dice because of a crazy political following, dies, leaves family members in mixture of grief, confusion, anger.  What the hell is it with some of the people?  Rhetorical question with a sad Darwin Award as the answer.  A total waste of a life.

Happened to my Brother's best friend a few months ago.  He wasn't super antivax, but didn't get it because his wife is a super nutter.  He should have got it on the sly.

Just last week our good friend's brother just died and he was really crazy anitvax.

54 years old and 44 years old.

From Idaho and Central Oregon.

Meltdown99

mickeyrat

tish said:

I wonder when governments will stop letting people cross borders based on proof of when they were last infected?

studies yet on a timeframe of possible reinfection? 

your stance here seems to suggest a belief that natural immunity is completely worthless.

this is one area I am not up on at all being vaxxed and now boosted , so it doesnt affect me at least not directly. selfish maybe but theres already so much to know....

dankind

mrussel1 said:

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

elvistheking44 said:

We made getting our boosters a family adventure yesterday. Had a 2:00 appointment for four of us. Line was 20 minutes long, we waited out in the Chicago cold. Myself and my wife plus the two kids aged 21 and 15. My 15 year old is having bad side effects. Slight fever, chills and muscle aches. Everyone else is a ok. Hope it is worth it.

If Omicron hasn't already ripped through your town,  it will be worth it.  

Anecdotal data.... 

1. We went to a wedding a week before Christmas where my oldest daughter was in the party.  She was boosted.  Several people in the wedding party got COVID. My daughter didn't.  We didn't, all boosted 

2. My son caught it and showed symptoms. Three days of sickness, bad cold or mild flu. 5 days to test negative.  No booster.  

3. My closest friend,  who has a blood and lung disease from smoking (hasn't quit) was over Tuesday after Christmas.  Overnight that night he woke up with it.  Just like my son,  3 days of sickness. No booster, but vaxed. He's the kind of person that would die of it unvaxed. 

I'm pretty sure my wife and I have had it asymptomatic or were clearly exposed and fought it off with the booster. 

“Anecdotal data” is an oxymoron. 

“Anecdotes” would suffice. 

Or perhaps “personal observations.”

Yes you're right. Eye roll. Thanks for chiming in with this important clarification. 

You are welcome. 

AW124797

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

mrussel1

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

OnWis97

What a mess. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-makes-bidens-vaccine-mandates-obsolete-covid-healthcare-osha-evidence-supreme-court-11641760009?mod=mhp

"One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection."

dankind

OnWis97 said:

What a mess. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-makes-bidens-vaccine-mandates-obsolete-covid-healthcare-osha-evidence-supreme-court-11641760009?mod=mhp

"One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection."

mrussel1

OnWis97 said:

What a mess. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-makes-bidens-vaccine-mandates-obsolete-covid-healthcare-osha-evidence-supreme-court-11641760009?mod=mhp

"One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection."

Why doesn't the WSJ opinion address the effectiveness of the booster against Omicron?  They give it passing lip service, stating that "effectiveness appears to wane quickly".  There is absolutely no evidence that is the case.  That is a completely made up statement.  

bootlegger10

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

I am not saying the answer is clear on cause of death.  You would just hope in a pandemic situation they would be able to track deaths based on:

1) Had Covid, no pre-existing issues.
2) Had Covid, pre-existing issues.
3) Had Covid, but no Covid related cause of death

mrussel1

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

I am not saying the answer is clear on cause of death.  You would just hope in a pandemic situation they would be able to track deaths based on:

1) Had Covid, no pre-existing issues.
2) Had Covid, pre-existing issues.
3) Had Covid, but no Covid related cause of death

Sure I agree with that.  But again, considering 42% of Americans are obese (which is a comorbidity), 47% have Hypertension, etc., one would expect a high % of these deaths have comorbs.. And since these numbers are so high, it's still a public health crisis.  

static111

OnWis97 said:

What a mess. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-makes-bidens-vaccine-mandates-obsolete-covid-healthcare-osha-evidence-supreme-court-11641760009?mod=mhp

"One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection."

I just heard this today.  Not good news that 90 days after receiving the vax you actually have negative protection from Omicron compared to not getting vaxxed.  Really sets up a never ending need for boosters if this data is correct.

I do question how keeping from severe infection and death after 90 days comes into account.  I'm ok with a greater chance of being infected if I have a higher protection level from the effects of the disease compared to a non vaxxed person.  Does the study show the effectiveness after 90 days for protection against severe complications from covid?

Bentleyspop

Sure hope this is true....

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1480399018958241793?t=jqOkmx2Z4qlOEf5uYNzPKA&s=19

Halifax2TheMax

Bentleyspop said:

Sure hope this is true....

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1480399018958241793?t=jqOkmx2Z4qlOEf5uYNzPKA&s=19

And a "responsible" gun owner to boot. 

OnWis97

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

I am not saying the answer is clear on cause of death.  You would just hope in a pandemic situation they would be able to track deaths based on:

1) Had Covid, no pre-existing issues.
2) Had Covid, pre-existing issues.
3) Had Covid, but no Covid related cause of death

Sure I agree with that.  But again, considering 42% of Americans are obese (which is a comorbidity), 47% have Hypertension, etc., one would expect a high % of these deaths have comorbs.. And since these numbers are so high, it's still a public health crisis.  

I would imagine over 2/3 of American adults have something. I have asthma. I've had it for 45 years. If I get Covid and die, to include me in some category of "pre-existing issues" would be somewhat intellectually dishonest. I will have died of Covid, plain and simple. Unless, of course, asthma makes me expendable...

I'm not sure "almost everyone that dies has another condition is the win we think it is. Consider all the people you know that fit that bill....

brianlux

Smellyman said:

brianlux said:

Just found out a friend of a family member,  a big Trump supporter, anti-mask, and anti-vacc, got COVID and died recently.   What a waste.  Rolls the dice because of a crazy political following, dies, leaves family members in mixture of grief, confusion, anger.  What the hell is it with some of the people?  Rhetorical question with a sad Darwin Award as the answer.  A total waste of a life.

Happened to my Brother's best friend a few months ago.  He wasn't super antivax, but didn't get it because his wife is a super nutter.  He should have got it on the sly.

Just last week our good friend's brother just died and he was really crazy anitvax.

54 years old and 44 years old.

From Idaho and Central Oregon.

I'm sorry to hear that. 

What's really crazy is that some of these people who are dying needlessly are actually believe the virus is a left wing hoax.  One meme from the right says something about "You should question science because that's what science itself does."  OK, fine, but then what these people do is substitute science for some far-fetched political opinion and increase their chances of dying of a horrid disease.  Who risks their life over some stupid political bullshit?  I just don't get it.

mrussel1

OnWis97 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

mrussel1 said:

AW124797 said:

Good follow up to new data from NY. As expected...

CDC Director Walensky fails to disclose how many deaths were 'from' COVID-19: 'Data will be forthcoming'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cdc-director-walensky-distinctions-covid-related-deaths-data-forthcoming

Nice spin.. "fails to disclose". Great job Fox as always. Did she promise to have it before the interview?

And let's be clear,  I'm guessing the vast majority of people who died had co-morbidities.   Half the country is overweight.  I have controlled hypertension but that's a co-morbiditity. This is a right wing red herring as usual.  And a far cry from the alleged "guy dies in a motorcycle accident" example people throw out.

Did you watch the 13 minute interview? 30 good questions, few proper answers from the CDC director.

I read the article.  Is your criticism about the point of the article or the CDC in general?

Both. The interview is definitely worth watching.

Can you be specific in your criticisms?  I watched it and I have zero issues with the director's responses.  Quickly..

1. Brett keeps trying to rope her into arguments in the court.  That's not her place.
2. He is asking what she thinks about Georgetown's quarantine rules.  Does she have some special authority over private universities in DC?The CDC shortened the timeframe to 5 days.  A private school in DC gets to make their own rules. 
3.  Regarding the "with" vs "because" of COVID for hospitalizations, she makes a point that the data being collected is from Omicron.  The implication there @bootlegger10 is that the data was not collected at the beginning of the pandemic.  And this should surprise no one.  The CDC doesn't have some special data here.  They are at the mercy of the work at the hospitals, morgues, nursing homes and everywhere else that patients died.  I would have no expectation that all 800k people received autopsies going back to the beginning of 2020 to make this distinction. 

I thought the director did a good job and frankly I think Brett's questions were very political in nature, and much less about healthcare and treatment.  

I am not saying the answer is clear on cause of death.  You would just hope in a pandemic situation they would be able to track deaths based on:

1) Had Covid, no pre-existing issues.
2) Had Covid, pre-existing issues.
3) Had Covid, but no Covid related cause of death

Sure I agree with that.  But again, considering 42% of Americans are obese (which is a comorbidity), 47% have Hypertension, etc., one would expect a high % of these deaths have comorbs.. And since these numbers are so high, it's still a public health crisis.  

I would imagine over 2/3 of American adults have something. I have asthma. I've had it for 45 years. If I get Covid and die, to include me in some category of "pre-existing issues" would be somewhat intellectually dishonest. I will have died of Covid, plain and simple. Unless, of course, asthma makes me expendable...

I'm not sure "almost everyone that dies has another condition is the win we think it is. Consider all the people you know that fit that bill....

Right exactly my point.  I've had hypertension since I was in my early 20's.  If I get COVID and die and it's deemed "not COVID" because I had a co-morbidity would be ridiculous.  The example I've used since the start is that people don't die of AIDS, they die because their body can't fight basic diseases anymore.  Now to be sure there are definitely Americans who have died from COVID without a co, but I'm guessing that's the strong minority.  Too many people in this country have co morbidiities.  

cincybearcat

So - I have covid. 

Vax'd and boosted (Pfizer).  Was/is like a head cold for me with coughing.  Getting better everyday, except today, head/stomach ache worse today then yesterday.  Pretty sure I'll be feeling pretty good in a day or 2, wonder how long the fatigue will last.  

I'd like to thank Pfizer for helping make this fairly minor and for taking away a lot of the worry.

PJNB

I am not a doctor and this is just my opinion but if I die from covid and obesity is my only underlying factor then I would say I died from covid and was more susceptible to it due to being overweight. Now if I had terminal cancer and tested positive on my death bed then no covid did not kill me and should not be tallied up as if it was. Those are two extremes and there is a lot of grey area cases in the middle of course.