WOKE

gimmesometruth27

DE4173 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

When we take away their options, I can’t blame them from going to TikTok and other social media for news. 

What options are taken away?  The news is still on.  They still print newspapers.  

cbs has bowed to trump. 

online newspapers are behind a paywall.

right wing organizations have bought up all the local news stations and make the reporters read pre-written editorials on the air so that all those networks are on the same page.

the news today is not presented how it was when we were growing up. it is more accessible, but not unbiased. 

Big news if true!  🤯

its true. google sinclair broadcasting.

gimmesometruth27

gimmesometruth27 said:

DE4173 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

When we take away their options, I can’t blame them from going to TikTok and other social media for news. 

What options are taken away?  The news is still on.  They still print newspapers.  

cbs has bowed to trump. 

online newspapers are behind a paywall.

right wing organizations have bought up all the local news stations and make the reporters read pre-written editorials on the air so that all those networks are on the same page.

the news today is not presented how it was when we were growing up. it is more accessible, but not unbiased. 

Big news if true!  🤯

its true. google sinclair broadcasting.

plus conservative talk radio is more prevalent because right wingers bought up all the radio stations in the 2000s.

gimmesometruth27

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

Tim Simmons said:

DE4173 said:

As a huge NFL (and college football) fan, I think it's an excellent idea. The male cheerleaders give straight women and gay men an alternative to the female cheerleaders in their tiny outfits and the players in tight pants.

Win-win! 🙌

I don’t follow football, but I don’t see how it’s any difference than college cheerleading. I’m surprised people are upset. It’s weird. 


or are people “upset” because conservative outlets are reporting this as an issue because of 3 tweets? 

It's a bit different...the college male cheerleaders are generally the guys that hold up the females, the male NFL cheerleaders couldn't lift cotton candy above their heads

but the history is cheer squads for college were all male once upon a time.

interesting to note the there have been more republican presidents that were cheerleaders than there are that were military vets.

DE4173

All of the local news stations
All of the radio stations.


Whoa!

gimmesometruth27

DE4173 said:

All of the local news stations
All of the radio stations.


Whoa!

most of them. don't mock me. you know what i meant.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

what you are explaining here and what tempo is saying generally are two different things. Yes, I respect positions of authority, and always have. No, I don't automatically respect any given person based solely on age. The example I gave earlier was a peer, who thought I should bend the knee because she was older than me. NOPE. 

that old bastard screaming at customer service because he bought the wrong carton of milk? yeah, no, no automatic respect. 

life guard? 100%. 

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

what you are explaining here and what tempo is saying generally are two different things. Yes, I respect positions of authority, and always have. No, I don't automatically respect any given person based solely on age. The example I gave earlier was a peer, who thought I should bend the knee because she was older than me. NOPE. 

that old bastard screaming at customer service because he bought the wrong carton of milk? yeah, no, no automatic respect. 

life guard? 100%. 

Mace understood what I was trying to get at.

benjs

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

I guess I see a distinction between behaving respectfully towards a person, and respecting an individual. If I don’t know an individual, I’ll treat them respectfully until given a reason not to, because that’s proper manners in my eyes. That respectful treatment can go away if it isn’t reciprocated, but even then, there’s a respectful way to tell someone off. Telling someone off disrespectfully also almost never creates a mental shift so what’s the point? 

benjs

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

I think its easy to blame education in this country (and it is a factor in terms of learning how to think critically and weed out BS and properly research and all that). Its a confluence of reasons. Its community and values, sometimes religious, sometimes regional. Its limited exposure to experiences and cultures. Its misinformation (thats where the lack of critical thinking comes into play). A big factor is that change is slow. Its simplification of life due to technology. Its complex times of financial hurdles and hardship. Its not just one thing driving it.

The upside is, if you look at the last 4 generations of Americans from Boomers to Z, you see the long term change in thinking. Some can call it growth, but change for the better happens. there are setbacks (we are currently in one). But values and understanding has changed over the past 50 years. Yeah, its not where many want it to be, but things are better.

I would say there is a definite setback right now.  I hear more and more young people that have little respect or regard to elders.

Another problem is the youth of today do not get their news from a news station or publication anymore.  It's all through social media.  Almost none of them don't read/watch in depth reporting.

I was shocked to hear that when they did a case study on youth today.

We know the old guard news medias are dyeing.  If they go then there won't be good reporting and the world could go to shit even further.

I do wish the woke generation would invest in some old fashioned news reporting.

Like so many things, I keep thinking about how a reliance on norms has backfired when someone successfully exploited them.

What told the founding fathers that parties wouldn’t become an issue? Reliance on the goodwill of enough of the collective to not allow it to deteriorate.

What told the public that news organizations would prioritize public information dissemination over polarized and capitalist need media networks? Reliance on the goodwill of the organization - or pressure from the people - to keep them honest.

Why was the original Roe v Wade result so comforting? Because it’s not normally done for the court to revisit something that precedent setting, so it was seen as permanent. 

Historically and from an evolutionary standpoint, we have a trust default. When our society’s leaders said they were going to get food, we trusted that they would return. Now, that trust is being regularly abused to seize power. 

Lerxst1992

gimmesometruth27 said:

DE4173 said:

All of the local news stations
All of the radio stations.


Whoa!

most of them. don't mock me. you know what i meant.

Because no one on the left here mocks the center or the right.

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

what you are explaining here and what tempo is saying generally are two different things. Yes, I respect positions of authority, and always have. No, I don't automatically respect any given person based solely on age. The example I gave earlier was a peer, who thought I should bend the knee because she was older than me. NOPE. 

that old bastard screaming at customer service because he bought the wrong carton of milk? yeah, no, no automatic respect. 

life guard? 100%. 

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I'm giving my perspective on how the younger generation internalizes that notion of respect is earned.

I saw a news clip the other day that some Chic-fil-a is banning unsupervised 16 years and younger from eating inside the restaurant. Some people were really upset. But honestly, have you seen how unsupervised teens can act? I don't blame them and would probably do the same. It's not uncommon to see them trash the place, waste supplies and just make a giant mess. Showing respect to the workers and owners would be to clean up after yourself, but in their mind, they don't owe anyone respect so they don't have to clean up. They've been raised that respect is earned, and you don't need to respect people unless they've earned it.
I disagree, I think respect should be given. Respecting the elderly means giving them a little more grace and attention than otherwise.  That doesn't mean let an older coworkert think they are right or walk all over you. But maybe that means don't get irritated when an elderly person is walking incredibly slow and you can't get around them, or they don't know how to use the self checkout properly and are wasting everyone's time. And clean up after yourself. So many fast food chains are restricting dine in or just closing it altogether now, largely for that reason.  

tbergs

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

what you are explaining here and what tempo is saying generally are two different things. Yes, I respect positions of authority, and always have. No, I don't automatically respect any given person based solely on age. The example I gave earlier was a peer, who thought I should bend the knee because she was older than me. NOPE. 

that old bastard screaming at customer service because he bought the wrong carton of milk? yeah, no, no automatic respect. 

life guard? 100%. 

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I'm giving my perspective on how the younger generation internalizes that notion of respect is earned.

I saw a news clip the other day that some Chic-fil-a is banning unsupervised 16 years and younger from eating inside the restaurant. Some people were really upset. But honestly, have you seen how unsupervised teens can act? I don't blame them and would probably do the same. It's not uncommon to see them trash the place, waste supplies and just make a giant mess. Showing respect to the workers and owners would be to clean up after yourself, but in their mind, they don't owe anyone respect so they don't have to clean up. They've been raised that respect is earned, and you don't need to respect people unless they've earned it.
I disagree, I think respect should be given. Respecting the elderly means giving them a little more grace and attention than otherwise.  That doesn't mean let an older coworkert think they are right or walk all over you. But maybe that means don't get irritated when an elderly person is walking incredibly slow and you can't get around them, or they don't know how to use the self checkout properly and are wasting everyone's time. And clean up after yourself. So many fast food chains are restricting dine in or just closing it altogether now, largely for that reason.  

Is this new though? 16 year olds have been trashing places and being disrespectful for decades. Also, I feel like older generations always try to make it seem like it was any different when they were younger, it wasn't. I went to school with plenty of delinquent fuck heads who did the same shit. The difference is the whole world didn't know because there weren't cellphones or cameras everywhere. Nothing has changed. There's still a minority of assholes getting all the attention for a large age demographic that primarily isn't a bunch of assholes. It's all about what you choose to focus on and extrapolate as widespread.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

what you are explaining here and what tempo is saying generally are two different things. Yes, I respect positions of authority, and always have. No, I don't automatically respect any given person based solely on age. The example I gave earlier was a peer, who thought I should bend the knee because she was older than me. NOPE. 

that old bastard screaming at customer service because he bought the wrong carton of milk? yeah, no, no automatic respect. 

life guard? 100%. 

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I'm giving my perspective on how the younger generation internalizes that notion of respect is earned.

I saw a news clip the other day that some Chic-fil-a is banning unsupervised 16 years and younger from eating inside the restaurant. Some people were really upset. But honestly, have you seen how unsupervised teens can act? I don't blame them and would probably do the same. It's not uncommon to see them trash the place, waste supplies and just make a giant mess. Showing respect to the workers and owners would be to clean up after yourself, but in their mind, they don't owe anyone respect so they don't have to clean up. They've been raised that respect is earned, and you don't need to respect people unless they've earned it.
I disagree, I think respect should be given. Respecting the elderly means giving them a little more grace and attention than otherwise.  That doesn't mean let an older coworkert think they are right or walk all over you. But maybe that means don't get irritated when an elderly person is walking incredibly slow and you can't get around them, or they don't know how to use the self checkout properly and are wasting everyone's time. And clean up after yourself. So many fast food chains are restricting dine in or just closing it altogether now, largely for that reason.  

Your last paragraph isn’t detailing “respecting your elders” in my opinion. That’s just being a decent human being. I give that same courtesy to anyone that experiences trouble doing things that I find easy. My mom has been disabled since she was 4. I have a Costanza-like radar for how we should treat others in a civilized way, likely as a result of seeing firsthand how many don’t. 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

what you are explaining here and what tempo is saying generally are two different things. Yes, I respect positions of authority, and always have. No, I don't automatically respect any given person based solely on age. The example I gave earlier was a peer, who thought I should bend the knee because she was older than me. NOPE. 

that old bastard screaming at customer service because he bought the wrong carton of milk? yeah, no, no automatic respect. 

life guard? 100%. 

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I'm giving my perspective on how the younger generation internalizes that notion of respect is earned.

I saw a news clip the other day that some Chic-fil-a is banning unsupervised 16 years and younger from eating inside the restaurant. Some people were really upset. But honestly, have you seen how unsupervised teens can act? I don't blame them and would probably do the same. It's not uncommon to see them trash the place, waste supplies and just make a giant mess. Showing respect to the workers and owners would be to clean up after yourself, but in their mind, they don't owe anyone respect so they don't have to clean up. They've been raised that respect is earned, and you don't need to respect people unless they've earned it.
I disagree, I think respect should be given. Respecting the elderly means giving them a little more grace and attention than otherwise.  That doesn't mean let an older coworkert think they are right or walk all over you. But maybe that means don't get irritated when an elderly person is walking incredibly slow and you can't get around them, or they don't know how to use the self checkout properly and are wasting everyone's time. And clean up after yourself. So many fast food chains are restricting dine in or just closing it altogether now, largely for that reason.  

wow...not sure how they are going to enforce that. Check birth certs?

Seems easier to just kick out anyone causing a problem. 17 year olds can waste supplies too.

Tim Simmons

Theres always been piece of shit kids and there are generally kids who have "respect". If anything social hierarchy norms apply and kids are going to defer to elders because of power dynamics. I think like many things in todays world, we are taking the outliers and generalizing.

HughFreakingDillon

Tim Simmons said:

Theres always been piece of shit kids and there are generally kids who have "respect". If anything social hierarchy norms apply and kids are going to defer to elders because of power dynamics. I think like many things in todays world, we are taking the outliers and generalizing.

Agreed. Some social aspects of teenagers has changed, but I think overall they are likely no better or worse than previous generations. People our age just start noticing it more as we get closer to “elder” status. 

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

Theres always been piece of shit kids and there are generally kids who have "respect". If anything social hierarchy norms apply and kids are going to defer to elders because of power dynamics. I think like many things in todays world, we are taking the outliers and generalizing.

Agreed. Some social aspects of teenagers has changed, but I think overall they are likely no better or worse than previous generations. People our age just start noticing it more as we get closer to “elder” status. 

Man I know we start to sound like old people when we bring things up but people younger do not hold a door open for anyone.  I can't tell you the shock I get when I hold a door for someone. It is why I brought it up before.

I will tell you that kids don't fear repercussions.  They "know their rights" which I think is pretty funny sometimes.

I was definitely one of the kids acting up but I never did bother someone elses property. Now I might cut through your yard when I was getting chased but I'm not overturning your yard table while doing it.

mace1229

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

And as for “respect for their elders”, respect is earned not a given. That may be on the decisions and behaviors of boomers and Xers. 

ehhh.  I want to disagree with that.  It's as if they have disdain for adults and older people in general.

One thing wrong with our country is the lack of empathy or respect, I know you say its something earned, towards older people.

In other countries the elders are celebrated.  Here we can't wait for them to die it seems.

I agree with this. And its the attitude of "its earned, not given" is part of the problem. You should show respect to everyone, unless you have a rationale reason not to. Aside from my classroom example with an authority figure, I see it all the time in public.
Older kids cussing a lot at the park around my small kids, if I ask them politely to stop they are just rude. I don't to have earned your respect to ask you not to be a bad influence on my children. But by today's standards it's more of the "I don't know you, I don't have to listen to you and I'll talk how I want" attitude. 
I see it all the time at our public pool on busy days. We have one of the biggest public pools in the country and we love it, but we see young teens disrespecting life guards regularly who ask them to stop doing certain things. The lifeguard doesn't have to earn your respect before telling you to follow the rules.

what you are explaining here and what tempo is saying generally are two different things. Yes, I respect positions of authority, and always have. No, I don't automatically respect any given person based solely on age. The example I gave earlier was a peer, who thought I should bend the knee because she was older than me. NOPE. 

that old bastard screaming at customer service because he bought the wrong carton of milk? yeah, no, no automatic respect. 

life guard? 100%. 

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I'm giving my perspective on how the younger generation internalizes that notion of respect is earned.

I saw a news clip the other day that some Chic-fil-a is banning unsupervised 16 years and younger from eating inside the restaurant. Some people were really upset. But honestly, have you seen how unsupervised teens can act? I don't blame them and would probably do the same. It's not uncommon to see them trash the place, waste supplies and just make a giant mess. Showing respect to the workers and owners would be to clean up after yourself, but in their mind, they don't owe anyone respect so they don't have to clean up. They've been raised that respect is earned, and you don't need to respect people unless they've earned it.
I disagree, I think respect should be given. Respecting the elderly means giving them a little more grace and attention than otherwise.  That doesn't mean let an older coworkert think they are right or walk all over you. But maybe that means don't get irritated when an elderly person is walking incredibly slow and you can't get around them, or they don't know how to use the self checkout properly and are wasting everyone's time. And clean up after yourself. So many fast food chains are restricting dine in or just closing it altogether now, largely for that reason.  

Is this new though? 16 year olds have been trashing places and being disrespectful for decades. Also, I feel like older generations always try to make it seem like it was any different when they were younger, it wasn't. I went to school with plenty of delinquent fuck heads who did the same shit. The difference is the whole world didn't know because there weren't cellphones or cameras everywhere. Nothing has changed. There's still a minority of assholes getting all the attention for a large age demographic that primarily isn't a bunch of assholes. It's all about what you choose to focus on and extrapolate as widespread.

It definitely isn't new. But it does seem more common.
It isn't that uncommon for me to go to a McDonalds now and see a young employee lash out and be  rude to their supervisor. Talking back when being corrected on something, refusing to clean during downtime, etc. I don't ever remember seeing that 10 years ago. Now it isn't that uncommon. I've seen an employee cuss out the manager and throw a fit for being asked to clean the bathroom more than once.

And like I said in my first post on this topic, I've been told straight up, as well as my wife, by parents that their kids don't need to listen to me. That I don't have the right to tell them where to sit, or have the right to dictate when they are on their phone (even though it is state law now). I have been told more than once by a parent that they teach their kids to stick up for themselves and if they disagree with their teacher then let them know. And typically these conversations with parents are the result of the kid refusing to sit in their assigned seat or leaving class without permission, not like I'm making them stay after school and fold my laundry or something. 
That to me is not showing respect for your elders and those in authority, when you straight up tell the teacher you don't have to listen to him for what is a pretty common and reasonable request (like sit down during class). And parents are backing up their kids and using the premise of respect is earned to support their child acting out. That attitude is definitely a minority, but it is becoming more common every year. And I see it play out in the real world in examples I've already given. Kids have always been kids, but it seems like its more common that 10 years ago. 

HughFreakingDillon

The teacher thing is a thing, no doubt. That’s the admin cowering to the shit parents who blame everything on the teachers. I know this second hand from the many teachers I know, many
of whom are leaving the job because of it. 

Maybe this is splitting hairs, but that’s a result of shitty parents and weak admin teaching the lids this way. Not a natural “evolution” of shitty teen behaviour. 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

The teacher thing is a thing, no doubt. That’s the admin cowering to the shit parents who blame everything on the teachers. I know this second hand from the many teachers I know, many
of whom are leaving the job because of it. 

Maybe this is splitting hairs, but that’s a result of shitty parents and weak admin teaching the lids this way. Not a natural “evolution” of shitty teen behaviour. 

You may be right to some extent. It’s definitely worse with bad admin, but I still experience it even with good admin.
But you don’t think if kids learn that is appropriate behavior in school that it won’t carry over into the public or their first jobs? I 100% think it does. Kids learn how to act in school, then they try to treat their first boss, or the lifeguard, how they learned to behave in school.
Kids get taught that the teacher doesn’t have the right to tell them what to do and that take that into the real world too.