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Canada: remains of 215 children found at Indigenous residential school site

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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/identifying-childrens-remains-at-b-c-residential-school-stalled-by-lack-of-records

    No co-operation, no comment: Missionary Oblates who ran Kamloops school won’t release records




  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,111
    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/identifying-childrens-remains-at-b-c-residential-school-stalled-by-lack-of-records

    No co-operation, no comment: Missionary Oblates who ran Kamloops school won’t release records




    I wonder if the push back is because of future litigation perhaps against the govt and the church? People suing for monetary gains if their relative was found to be in the mass grave?

    The right thing to do might come with an enormous price tag, hence the push back.  I don't know if we have a lawyer or someone in the group that could answer this or not?
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/identifying-childrens-remains-at-b-c-residential-school-stalled-by-lack-of-records

    No co-operation, no comment: Missionary Oblates who ran Kamloops school won’t release records




    I wonder if the push back is because of future litigation perhaps against the govt and the church? People suing for monetary gains if their relative was found to be in the mass grave?

    The right thing to do might come with an enormous price tag, hence the push back.  I don't know if we have a lawyer or someone in the group that could answer this or not?
    Your probably right…and I’ve read that’s the reason the church doesn’t apologize.  And 1st nations do want compensation from the church…but if the church never sits down with 1st nations leaders to even discuss the situation…it will remain unfinished business.  The Catholic Church makes victims of pedo priest take them to court.   We all no the Catholic Church is just fraud.

    The stories are starting to come out now, not just about Kamloops, but other schools as well…many survivors recall seeing children being buried at other schools.  Survivors are starting to speak more openly.  

    An outside country or entity should be put in charge of the investigation…this is genocide and the politicians will try to bury this story if they could.  We need an independent investigation…


  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,211
    Vancouver Catholic archbishop appears to break with the church, offering an apology and all records and other documents pertaining to the Kamloops residential school.

    https://www.timescolonist.com/news/b-c/vancouver-archbishop-says-catholic-church-will-help-identify-remains-of-children-1.24326166
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,484
    Vancouver Catholic archbishop appears to break with the church, offering an apology and all records and other documents pertaining to the Kamloops residential school.

    https://www.timescolonist.com/news/b-c/vancouver-archbishop-says-catholic-church-will-help-identify-remains-of-children-1.24326166
    long overdue. hopefully this kind of thing has a ripple effect. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,211
    There is lots of discussion in the media about whether it is possible to identify the remains and what the complexities of that process would be. Identification would obviously require exhumation. I wonder if this will be what the Indigenous communities want? I would assume there may be differing opinions on this, with many (most?) wanting to try to bring the remains of their children home and others possibly wanting not to disturb the graves. I wonder how this might be resolved. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,111
    There is lots of discussion in the media about whether it is possible to identify the remains and what the complexities of that process would be. Identification would obviously require exhumation. I wonder if this will be what the Indigenous communities want? I would assume there may be differing opinions on this, with many (most?) wanting to try to bring the remains of their children home and others possibly wanting not to disturb the graves. I wonder how this might be resolved. 
    Great question.

    Here in the US there have been different things done.  Some were found on or near a burial ground so it is left undisturbed.  In other places the remains were removed and placed in a proper burial area and other times the area was argued to be an ancient burial ground and any further building/exhuming be halted and left untouched.
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,585
    Orange shirt day for my grade 1 son today. How the fuck do you explain to him what this is about? I tried to say that everyone is equal and wearing this shirt says you support this no matter who you are or where you are from. I wonder what kind of detail they will go into at school today with it if at all. 
    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,585
    cutz said:
    South Dakota? Not saying that did not happen here cause I honestly do not know. 
    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    edited June 3
    PJNB said:
    Orange shirt day for my grade 1 son today. How the fuck do you explain to him what this is about? I tried to say that everyone is equal and wearing this shirt says you support this no matter who you are or where you are from. I wonder what kind of detail they will go into at school today with it if at all. 
    That’s a good question?  I’d like to see an indigenous studies course implemented from k-12 that is mandatory and written by indigenous people that is taught coast to coast to coast…but the provinces are in charge of education curriculum…I hold out very little hope.

    Indigenous peoples want their story told…but most importantly they want to tell the story…not settlers.  Us settlers are not to be trusted to with the state indigenous peoples anymore…they need and deserve the right of self government and for gosh sakes…get rid of the fuckin Indian Act…


    Post edited by Meltdown99 on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488

  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
  • tishtish taking the looooooong way,...Posts: 3,504
    edited June 3
    PJNB said:
    Orange shirt day for my grade 1 son today. How the fuck do you explain to him what this is about? I tried to say that everyone is equal and wearing this shirt says you support this no matter who you are or where you are from. I wonder what kind of detail they will go into at school today with it if at all. 
    They usually read this in younger years. It's about the First Nation girl who was given a shiny new t-shirt by her loving family but the school took it from her. I guess the orange-tshirt is symbolic, although it was literally true for Phyllis.

    https://www.orangeshirtday.org/phyllis-story.html#:~:text=September 30th has been declared,that everyone around us matters.

    Then kids complain they never got taught the truth at schools and alumni petition to change curriculum.

    You could ask their teacher or send admin an email to find out what you province deems appropriate.
    Post edited by tish on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">More than a dozen lawyers from across Canada have formally requested the International Criminal Court (ICC) investigate the Canadian government and the Vatican for crimes against humanity following preliminary reports that the remains of an estimated 215… <a href="https://t.co/OftRf4jIRA">https://t.co/OftRf4jIRA</a></p>&mdash; Sol Mamakwa MPP (@solmamakwa) <a href="">June 3, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Recommend watching... <a href="https://t.co/8Hxa4nN2Wh">https://t.co/8Hxa4nN2Wh</a></p>&mdash; Jody Wilson-Raybould 王州迪 Vancouver Granville (@Puglaas) <a href="">June 4, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-canadian-lawyers-icc-residential-school-investigation-1.6052054


    International Criminal Court called on to investigate Kamloops residential school findings

  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hard pill to swallow, that a country you love, committed nothing short of cultural genocide, in plain sight-with full intention to destroy their past and future as a race. If we don’t come to terms with that, our country doesn’t deserve our love and sacrifice for it.</p>&mdash; Al Gothjelpsen (@AlvisGee) <a href="">June 4, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When the bodies of 215 children are discovered in a mass grave at a school, the operators of that school shouldn&#39;t have the option to &quot;not to release the records&quot;.<br>Who&#39;s asking politely? Kick some goddam doors in! <a href="https://t.co/o49wmJ6V6e">https://t.co/o49wmJ6V6e</a></p>&mdash; Brent Butt (@BrentButt) <a href="">June 4, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,484
    agreed 100% Brent
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488

  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    https://globalnews.ca/news/7923916/residential-school-inuk-foster-care/?utm_source=%40globalnews&utm_medium=Twitter


    Child foster care is ‘the new residential school system,’ Nunavut MP says



  • tishtish taking the looooooong way,...Posts: 3,504
    https://globalnews.ca/news/7923916/residential-school-inuk-foster-care/?utm_source=%40globalnews&utm_medium=Twitter


    Child foster care is ‘the new residential school system,’ Nunavut MP says



    I know, right! Instead of every child matters the slogan should be - stop taking our children.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,296
    Good to see The Guardian covering this horrible piece of history.

    When they came to take Jonnish Saganash away, he was only five years old.

    It was 1954, and the Canadian government had decided he was to be sent to a residential school in Ontario – hundreds of kilometers from his Indigenous community in Quebec.

    “He was just a child, a gentle child born on the land of his ancestors,” his brother Romeo recalled this week.

    Just a year after arriving at the school, Jonnish contracted rheumatic fever and died far from his family. He was buried in an unmarked grave near the school.

    Last week, news broke at the other end of the country that would bring all those painful memories back. It was “devastating – again,” said Romeo.

    Terrible and tragic.



    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,585
    tish said:
    https://globalnews.ca/news/7923916/residential-school-inuk-foster-care/?utm_source=%40globalnews&utm_medium=Twitter


    Child foster care is ‘the new residential school system,’ Nunavut MP says



    I know, right! Instead of every child matters the slogan should be - stop taking our children.
    Why are the kids being put in foster homes?
    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • tishtish taking the looooooong way,...Posts: 3,504
    Cultural genocide 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
    kinda thought atonement and admission of sins was part of the deal?

    Pope voices 'pain' over Canadian deaths, doesn't apologize
    By FRANCES D'EMILIO
    43 mins ago

    VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis on Sunday expressed his pain over the discovery in Canada of the remains of 215 Indigenous students of church-run boarding schools and pressed religious and political authorities to shed light on “this sad affair.” But he didn’t offer the apology sought by the Canadian prime minister.

    Francis, in remarks to faithful gathered in St. Peter's Square, also called on the authorities to foster healing but made no reference to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's insistence, two days earlier, that the Vatican apologize and take responsibility.

    From the 19th century until the 1970s, more than 150,000 Indigenous children were forced to attend state-funded Christian schools, the majority of them run by Roman Catholic missionary congregations, in a campaign to assimilate them into Canadian society.

    The Canadian government has admitted that physical and sexual abuse was rampant in the schools, with students beaten for speaking their native languages.

    Ground-penetrating radar was used to confirm the remains of the children at the Kamloops Indian Residential School in Kamloops, British Columbia, last month. The school was Canada's largest such facility and was operated by the Catholic Church between 1890 and 1969.

    "I am following with pain the news that arrives from Canada about the upsetting discovery of the remains of 215 children," Francis said in his customary Sunday noon remarks to the public.

    “I join with the Canadian bishops and the entire Catholic Church in Canada in expressing my closeness to the Canadian people traumatized by the shocking news,'' Francis said.

    ”This sad discovery adds to the awareness of the sorrows and sufferings of the past," he added.

    Trudeau on Friday blasted the church for being “silent” and “not stepping up,″ and called on it to formally apologize and to make amends for its prominent role in his nation’s former system of church-run Indigenous boarding schools.

    He noted that when he met with Francis at the Vatican in 2017, he had asked him to ”move forward on apologizing” and on making records available. But, Trudeau said, “we’re still seeing resistance from the church, possibly from the church in Canada.”

    Chief Rosanne Casimir of the Tk’emlups te Secwepemc First Nation in British Columbia has said her nation wants a public apology from the Catholic Church. The Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, which ran nearly half of Canada’s residential schools, has yet to release any records about the Kamloops school, she also said.

    Francis’ comments spoke of healing but not of apology.

    “May the political and religious authorities continue to collaborate with determination to shed light on this sad affair and to commit humbly to a path of reconciliation and healing,″ Francis said.

    “These difficult moments represent a strong call to distance ourselves from the colonial model and from today’s ideological colonizing and to walk side by side in dialogue, in mutual respect and in recognizing rights and cultural values of all the daughters and sons of Canada,” the pope said.

    “Let's entrust to the Lord the souls of all those children, deceased in the residential schools of Canada,'' the pontiff added. "Let us pray for the families and for the indigenous Canadian communities overcome by sorrow.” Francis then asked the public in the square below his window to join him in silent prayer.

    Last week, the Vatican spokesman didn't respond to requests for comment about the demands for a formal apology from the pope.

    On Wednesday, Vancouver Archbishop Michael Miller tweeted his "deep apology and profound condolences to the families and communities that have been devastated by this horrific news.” The churchman, who leads Catholics in that British Columbia archdiocese, added that the church was "unquestionably wrong in implementing a government colonialist policy which resulted in devastation for children, families and communities.”

    The United, Presbyterian and Anglican churches have apologized for their roles in the abuse, as has the Canadian government, which has offered compensation.

    Among the many recommendations of a government-established Truth and Reconciliation Commission was a papal apology.

    In 2009, then Pope Benedict XVI met with former students and survivors and told them of his “personal anguish” over their suffering. But his words weren't described as an apology.


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  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,585
    edited June 6
    tish said:
    Cultural genocide 
    Where is the proof that is still happening intentionally to cause a cultural genocide? I get emotions are high right now on this and I will admit I am really not aware of what is going on to be honest. That is why I am asking the question but to say cultural genocide is the reason they are putting kids in foster care homes that should have some proof should it not? How in 2021 would this happen? 

    I have a friend that was an RCMP officer in Nunavut for 4 years. She had a case where she found a 1 year old boy that was abused and neglected by his mother so bad there were week old feces still in his room. She was there on her own so she decided to become a foster parent for the boy while she lived there. After her 4 year term was up she found a job closer to home in the maritimes.  She applied to adopt the boy and after some time with no one locally interested to adopt she was successful. This boy now lives in our province far away from his culture and home. Does this count? 




    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488

    Trudeau must fulfill vow of ‘transformative’ change for Indigenous people: Wilson-Raybould


    We need real action.   Jody would be a great person to lead the change…

  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,488
    tish said:
    https://globalnews.ca/news/7923916/residential-school-inuk-foster-care/?utm_source=%40globalnews&utm_medium=Twitter


    Child foster care is ‘the new residential school system,’ Nunavut MP says



    I know, right! Instead of every child matters the slogan should be - stop taking our children.
    From my understanding many are put in non indigenous homes as well.  Which leads to loss of culture.
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