I’ll put this here…what a fucking disgusting human.
and the school only bowed to public pressure. she was in a previous school yearbook in a picture wearing the head dress with the caption something along the lines of "teaching the kids through the magic of memory" or something. because apparently the syllables she was chanting was something similar to something in trigonometry.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Former prime minister Jean Chrétien said Sunday that during his tenure as minister of what was then Indian Affairs, he never heard anything about abuse happening in residential schools.
I use to like this guy. But he’s a lying pos who got wealthy off taxpayers and indigenous lands and does not even have enough character to admit the truth…he’d rather takes his lies to the grave.
During the French interview, Chrétien appeared to draw a comparison between his own experience attending a conventional college boarding school as a teenager to that of Indigenous children who were forced to attend residential schools.
"I ate baked beans and oatmeal. And to be sure, it was hard living in a boarding school, extremely hard. Here in Quebec, we had to [in order to get into university]," he said.
"In Shawinigan, we didn't have a college. We had to go to Trois-Rivières or to Joliette," he explained. "We had no choice. It was hard but my parents insisted I go to university and I had to do it."
Comparing his privilege to that of our ingenious peoples. I guess the part about his parents making the choice to send him to boarding school as opposed to indigenous children who were ripped and stolen from their families, many were raped and murdered, had their culture stolen went from eating nutritious meals that the land provided to eating slop. Fuck this pos of shit old man.
Responding to these assertions on Monday morning, NDP MP and critic for Indigenous youth Charlie Angus cited a hand-written letter he’d read from a teacher to then-minister Chretien that was from St. Anne's Residential School in Fort Albany, Ont. It was dated 1968, he said.
In it, the teacher told him “that crimes are being committed against children, that he as Indian affairs minister had to step up and do something. And Jean Chretien never responded," Angus said.
“Imagine if he had read that letter, and thought ‘I should do something.’ How many children could have been saved? Because some of the worst crimes were being committed at that time. So it is outrageous for Jean Chretien today, to try and whitewash his role…because he knew people reached out to him and they begged him to do the right thing. And he ignored them,” Angus said.
An interesting article about the Indigenous Sami people and how Sweden, particularly the Church of Sweden, are embarking on a process of reconciliation that recognizes "forced Christianization" and erasure of the Sami cultural practices and language. The church appears to be largely doing this independent of government as the Swedish government is not yet on board.
Latest stats show I need to lower my dreams, hope, and expectations for my Indigenous daughter to align more realistically with outcomes under the Indian Act.
Improving experiences of young Indigenous girls behind bars. HA!
Pope makes historic Indigenous apology for Canada abuses
By NICOLE WINFIELD
Yesterday
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis on Friday made a historic apology to Indigenous peoples for the “deplorable” abuses they suffered in Canada’s Catholic-run residential schools and said he hoped to visit Canada in late July to deliver the apology in person to survivors of the church's misguided missionary zeal.
Francis begged forgiveness during an audience with dozens of members of the Metis, Inuit and First Nations communities who came to Rome seeking a papal apology and a commitment from the Catholic Church to repair the damage. The first pope from the Americas said he hoped to visit Canada around the Feast of St. Anna, which falls on July 26.
More than 150,000 native children in Canada were forced to attend state-funded Christian schools from the 19th century until the 1970s in an effort to isolate them from the influence of their homes and culture. The aim was to Christianize and assimilate them into mainstream society, which previous Canadian governments considered superior.
The Canadian government has admitted that physical and sexual abuse was rampant at the schools, with students beaten for speaking their native languages. That legacy of that abuse and isolation from family has been cited by Indigenous leaders as a root cause of the epidemic rates of alcohol and drug addiction now on Canadian reservations.
After hearing their stories all week, Francis told the Indigenous groups that the colonial project ripped children from their families, cutting off their roots, traditions and culture and provoking inter-generational trauma that is still being felt today. He said it was a “counter-witness” to the same Gospel that the residential school system purported to uphold.
“For the deplorable conduct of those members of the Catholic Church, I ask forgiveness of the Lord,” Francis said. “And I want to tell you from my heart, that I am greatly pained. And I unite myself with the Canadian bishops in apologizing.”
The trip to Rome by the Indigenous leaders, elders and survivors was years in the making but gained momentum last year after the discovery of hundreds of unmarked graves outside some of the residential schools in Canada. The three groups met separately with Francis over several hours this week, telling him their stories, culminating with Friday's audience.
The president of the Metis National Council, Cassidy Caron, said the Metis elder sitting next her burst into tears upon hearing what she said was a long-overdue apology.
“The pope's words today were historic, to be sure. They were necessary, and I appreciate them deeply,” Caron told reporters in St. Peter's Square. “And I now look forward to the pope's visit to Canada, where he can offer those sincere words of apology directly to our survivors and their families, whose acceptance and healing ultimately matters most.”
First Nations' Chief Gerald Antoine echoed the sentiment, saying Francis recognized the cultural "genocide” that had been inflicted on Indigenous peoples.
“Today is a day that we’ve been waiting for. And certainly one that will be uplifted in our history," he said. “It’s a historical first step, however, only a first step.”
He and other delegates said there was far more for the church to do on the path of reconciliation, but that for now Indigenous leaders insisted on being involved in organizing the papal visit to make sure Francis stops in places that hold spiritual importance to their people.
Natan Obed, president of the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, thanked Francis for addressing all the issues the Indigenous delegations had brought to him. “And he did so in a way that really showed his empathy towards the Indigenous people of Canada,” he said.
Nearly three-quarters of Canada’s 130 residential schools were run by Catholic missionary congregations.
Last May, the Tk’emlups te Secwepemc Nation announced the discovery of 215 gravesites near Kamloops, British Columbia, that were found using ground-penetrating radar. It was Canada’s largest Indigenous residential school and the discovery of the graves was the first of numerous, similar grim sites across the country.
Even before the grave sites were discovered, Canada’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission specifically called for a papal apology to be delivered on Canadian soil for the church’s role in the abuses.
In addition, as part of a settlement of a lawsuit involving the Canadian government, churches and the approximately 90,000 surviving students, Canada paid reparations that amounted to billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities. The Catholic Church, for its part, has paid over $50 million and now intends to add $30 million more over the next five years.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, meanwhile, acknowledged Francis' apology and said he looked forward to having him deliver it in person in Canada.
“This apology would not have happened without the long advocacy of survivors who journeyed to tell their truths directly to the institution responsible and who recounted and relived their painful memories,” he said. “Today’s apology is a step forward in acknowledging the truth of our past in order to right historical wrongs, but there is still work to be done.”
Francis said he felt shame for the role that Catholic educators had played in the harm, “in the abuse and disrespect for your identity, your culture and even your spiritual values,” he said. “It is evident that the contents of the faith cannot be transmitted in a way that is extraneous to the faith itself.”
“It is chilling to think of determined efforts to instill a sense of inferiority, to rob people of their cultural identity, to sever their roots, and to consider all the personal and social effects that this continues to entail: unresolved traumas that have become inter-generational traumas,” he said.
After the papal apology, the audience continued with joyous performances of Indigenous prayers by drummers, dancers and fiddlers that Francis watched, applauded and gave a thumbs up to. The delegates then presented him with gifts, including snowshoes. Francis, for his part, returned a First Nations cradle that the delegation had left with him overnight as he pondered his apology.
Francis' apology went far beyond what Pope Benedict XVI had offered in 2009 when an Assembly of First Nations delegation visited. At the time, Benedict only expressed his “sorrow at the anguish caused by the deplorable conduct of some members of the church.” But he did not apologize.
The Argentine pope is no stranger to offering apologies for his own errors and for what he himself has termed the “crimes” of the institutional church. Most significantly, during a 2015 visit to Bolivia, he apologized for the sins, crimes and offenses committed by the church against Indigenous peoples during the colonial-era conquest of the Americas.
He made clear those same colonial crimes occurred far more recently in Canada at the Catholic-run residential schools.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
^^Hugh, darling, we are called First Nation, Inuit and/or Metis now. Not aboriginal, nor ignorant Indians.
I just completed my Masters of Education. At this point of my understanding, I feel we ought to move on from torching churches and start in on the schools.
my apologies. I honestly did not know that was no longer usable, nor did I know it was offensive. I haven't used the word "indian" in decades (and I always correct people when they do). I thought aboriginal was an all encompassing term.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Pope lands in Canada, set for apologies to Indigenous groups
By NICOLE WINFIELD, ROB GILLIES and PETER SMITH
1 hour ago
EDMONTON, Alberta (AP) — Pope Francis began a historic visit to Canada on Sunday to apologize to Indigenous peoples for abuses by missionaries at residential schools, a key step in the Catholic Church’s efforts to reconcile with Native communities and help them heal from generations of trauma.
Francis kissed the hand of a residential school survivor as he was greeted at the Edmonton, Alberta, airport by Indigenous representatives, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Mary Simon, an Inuk who is Canada’s first Indigenous governor general.
The gesture set the tone of what Francis has said is a “penitential pilgrimage” to atone for the role of Catholic missionaries in the forced assimilation of generations of Native children — a visit that has stirred mixed emotions across Canada as survivors and their families cope with the trauma of their losses and receive a long-sought papal apology.
Francis had no official events scheduled Sunday, giving him time to rest before his meeting Monday with survivors near the site of a former residential school in Maskwacis, where he is expected to pray at a cemetery and apologize.
Francis exited the back of his plane with the help of an ambulift, given his strained knee ligaments have forced him to use a wheelchair. The simple welcome ceremony took place in airport hangar, where Indigenous drums and chanting broke the silence. As Trudeau and Simon sat beside Francis, a succession of Indigenous leaders and elders greeted the pope and exchanged gifts. At one point, Francis kissed the hand of residential school survivor Elder Alma Desjarlais of the Frog Lake First Nations as she was introduced to him.
“Right now, many of our people are skeptical and they are hurt,” said Grand Chief George Arcand Jr. of the Confederacy of Treaty Six First Nations, who greeted the pope. Yet he expressed hope that with the papal apology, “We could begin our journey of healing .. and change the way things have been for our people for many, many years.”
Indigenous groups are seeking more than just words, though, as they press for access to church archives to learn the fate of children who never returned home from the residential schools. They also want justice for the abusers, financial reparations and the return of Indigenous artifacts held by the Vatican Museums.
Assembly of First Nations National Chief RoseAnne Archibald, one of the country’s most prominent Indigenous leaders, said several members of her family attended residential schools, including a sister who died at one in Ontario. She described it as “an institution of assimilation and genocide.”
During her fight to Alberta, “I was just so overcome with emotion and there were different times on the plane where I really had to stop myself from breaking into a deep sob,” she said. “I realized that I am an intergenerational trauma survivor and there are so many people like me.”
Francis’ week-long trip — which will take him to Edmonton; Quebec City and finally Iqaluit, Nunavut, in the far north — follows meetings he held in the spring at the Vatican with delegations from the First Nations, Metis and Inuit. Those meetings culminated with a historic April 1 apology for the “deplorable” abuses committed by some Catholic missionaries in residential schools.
The Canadian government has admitted that physical and sexual abuse were rampant in the state-funded Christian schools that operated from the 19th century to the 1970s. Some 150,000 Indigenous children were taken from their families and forced to attend in an effort to isolate them from the influence of their homes, Native languages and cultures and assimilate them into Canada’s Christian society.
Then-Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a formal apology over the residential schools in 2008. As part of a lawsuit settlement involving the government, churches and approximately 90,000 surviving students, Canada paid reparations that amounted to billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities. Canada’s Catholic Church says its dioceses and religious orders have provided more than $50 million in cash and in-kind contributions, and hope to add $30 million more over the next five years.
Canada’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 2015 had called for a papal apology to be delivered on Canadian soil, but it was only after the 2021 discovery of the possible remains of around 200 children at the former Kamloops residential school in British Columbia that the Vatican mobilized to comply with the request.
“I honestly believe that if it wasn’t for the discovery ... and all the spotlight that was placed on the Oblates or the Catholic Church as well, I don’t think any of this would have happened,” said Raymond Frogner, head archivist at the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation.
Frogner just returned from Rome where he spent five days at the headquarters of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, which operated 48 of the 139 Christian-run residential schools, the most of any Catholic order. After the graves were discovered, the Oblates finally offered “complete transparency and accountability” and allowed him into its headquarters to research the names of alleged sex abusers from a single school in the western Canadian province of Saskatchewan, he said.
The Inuit community, for its part, is seeking Vatican assistance to extradite a single Oblate priest, the Rev. Joannes Rivoire, who ministered to Inuit communities until he left in the 1990s and returned to France. Canadian authorities issued an arrest warrant for him in 1998 on accusations of several counts of sexual abuse, but it has never been served.
Inuit leader Natan Obed personally asked Francis for the Vatican’s help in extraditing Rivoire, telling The Associated Press in March that it was one specific thing the Vatican could do to bring healing to his many victims.
Asked about the request, Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni said last week that he had no information on the case.
At a news conference Saturday in Edmonton, organizers said they will do all they can to enable school survivors to attend the papal events, particularly for the Maskwacis apology and the Tuesday gathering at Lac Ste. Anne, long a popular pilgrimage site for Indigenous Catholics.
Both are in rural areas, and organizers are arranging shuttle transport from various park-and-ride lots. They noted that many survivors are now elderly and frail and may need accessible vehicle transport, diabetic-friendly snacks and other services.
The Rev. Cristino Bouvette, national liturgical coordinator for the papal visit, who is partly of Indigenous heritage, said he hopes the visit is healing for those who “have borne a wound, a cross that they have suffered with, in some cases for generations.”
Bouvette, a priest in the Diocese of Calgary, said the papal liturgical events will have strong Indigenous representation — including prominent roles for Indigenous clergy and the use of Native languages, music and motifs on liturgical vestments.
Bouvette said he’s doing this work in honor of his “kokum,” the Cree word for grandmother, who spent 12 years at a residential school in Edmonton. She “could have probably never imagined those many years later that her grandson would be involved in this work.”
___
Gillies reported from Toronto.
___
Associated Press religion coverage receives support through the AP’s collaboration with The Conversation US, with funding from Lilly Endowment Inc. The AP is solely responsible for this content.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
man, progress from the church is fucking slow. we'll have two more popes before any tangible efforts are made for real reconciliation (beyond apology).
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Pope apologizes for 'catastrophic' school policy in Canada
By NICOLE WINFIELD and PETER SMITH
1 hour ago
MASKWACIS, Alberta (AP) — Pope Francis issued a historic apology Monday for the Catholic Church’s cooperation with Canada’s “catastrophic” policy of Indigenous residential schools, saying the forced assimilation of Native peoples into Christian society destroyed their cultures, severed families and marginalized generations.
“I am deeply sorry,” Francis said to applause from school survivors and Indigenous community members gathered at a former residential school south of Edmonton, Alberta. He called the school policy a “disastrous error” that was incompatible with the Gospel and said further investigation and healing is needed.
In the first event of his weeklong “penitential pilgrimage,” Francis traveled to the lands of four Cree nations to pray at a cemetery and then deliver the long-sought apology at nearby powow ceremonial grounds. Four chiefs escorted the pontiff in a wheelchair to the site near the former Ermineskin Indian Residential School, and presented him with a feathered headdress after he spoke.
“I humbly beg forgiveness for the evil committed by so many Christians against the Indigenous peoples,” Francis said.
His words went beyond his earlier apology for the “deplorable” acts of missionaries and instead took responsibility for the church’s institutional cooperation with Canada’s “catastrophic” assimilation policy, which the country’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission said amounted to a “cultural genocide.”
More than 150,000 native children in Canada were forced to attend government-funded Christian schools from the 19th century until the 1970s in an effort to isolate them from the influence of their homes and culture. The aim was to Christianize and assimilate them into mainstream society, which previous Canadian governments considered superior.
Ottawa has admitted that physical and sexual abuse was rampant at the schools, with students beaten for speaking their native languages. That legacy of that abuse and isolation from family has been cited by Indigenous leaders as a root cause of the epidemic rates of alcohol and drug addiction now on Canadian reservations.
The discoveries of hundreds of potential burial sites at former schools in the past year drew international attention to the legacy of the schools in Canada and their counterparts in the United States. The revelations prompted Francis to comply with the truth commission’s call for him to apologize on Canadian soil for the Catholic Church’s role in the abuses; Catholic religious orders operated 66 of the 139 country's residential schools.
Some in the crowd Monday wept as Francis spoke, while others applauded or stayed silent listening to his words, which were delivered in Spanish and then translated into English.
“It’s something that is needed, not only for people to hear but for the church to be accountable,” said Sandi Harper, who travelled with her sister and a church group from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, in honor of their late mother, who went to a residential school.
Harper called the pope’s apology “very genuine.” “He recognizes this road to reconciliation is going to take time, but he is really on board with us,” she said.
Many wore traditional dress, including colorful ribbon skirts and vests with Native motifs. Others donned orange shirts, which have become a symbol of residential school survivors, recalling the story of one woman whose beloved orange shirt, a gift from her grandmother, was confiscated at a school and replaced with a uniform.
Despite the solemnity of the event, the atmosphere seemed at times joyful: Chiefs processed into the site venue to a hypnotic drumbeat, elders danced and the crowd cheered and chanted war songs, victory songs and finally a healing song.
Chief Wilton Littlechild, who was a student at the Ermineskin school and later served on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, welcomed Francis at the start of the ceremony and told people the pontiff had understood their pain.
"We sincerely hope that our encounter this morning, and the words you share with us, will echo with true healing and real home through many generations to come,” he said.
Felisha Crier Hosein traveled from Florida to attend in place of her mother, who helped create the museum for the nearby Samson Cree Nation and had planned to attend, but died in May.
“Sorry is not going to make what happened go away,” she said. “But it means a lot to the elders.”
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who last year apologized for the “incredibly harmful government policy” in organizing the residential school system, was also attending along with the governor general and other officials.
As part of a lawsuit settlement involving the government, churches and approximately 90,000 survivors, Canada paid reparations that amounted to billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities. Canada’s Catholic Church says its dioceses and religious orders have provided more than $50 million in cash and in-kind contributions and hope to add $30 million more over the next five years.
While the pope acknowledged institutional blame, he also made clear that Catholic missionaries were merely cooperating with and implementing the government policy of assimilation, which he termed the “colonizing mentality of the powers.”
“I ask forgiveness, in particular, for the ways in which many members of the church and of religious communities cooperated, not least through their indifference, in projects of cultural destruction and forced assimilation promoted by the governments of that time, which culminated in the system of residential schools,” he said.
He said the policy marginalized generations, suppressed Indigenous languages, led to physical, verbal, psychological and spiritual abuse and “indelibly affected relationships between parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren.” He called for further investigation, a possible reference to Indigenous demands for further access to church records and personnel files of the priests and nuns to identify who was responsible for the abuses.
“Although Christian charity was not absent, and there were many outstanding instances of devotion and care for children, the overall effects of the policies linked to the residential schools were catastrophic,” Francis said. “ What our Christian faith tells us is that this was a disastrous error, incompatible with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
The first pope from the Americas was determined to make this trip, even though torn knee ligaments forced him to cancel a visit to Africa earlier this month.
The six-day visit — which will also include stops in Quebec City and Iqaluit, Nunavut, in the far north — follows meetings Francis held in the spring at the Vatican with delegations from the First Nations, Metis and Inuit. Those meetings culminated with Francis' apology April 1 for “deplorable” abuses at residential schools and a promise to do so again on Canadian soil.
Francis recalled that one of the delegations gave him a set of beaded moccasins as a symbol of children who never came back from the schools, and asked him to return them in Canada. Francis said in these months they “kept alive my sense of sorrow, indignation and shame” but that in returning them he hoped they can also represent a path to walk together.
Event organizers said they would do everything possible to ensure survivors could attend, busing them in and providing mental health counselors knowing that the event could be traumatic for some.
Francis acknowledged that the memories could trigger old wounds and even his mere presence could be traumatic, but he said remembering was important to prevent indifference.
Later Monday, Francis was scheduled to visit Sacred Heart Church of the First Peoples, a Catholic parish in Edmonton oriented toward Indigenous people and culture. The church, whose sanctuary was dedicated last week after being restored from a fire, incorporates Indigenous language and customs in liturgy.
___
Associated Press writer Rob Gillies in Toronto contributed to this report.
___
Associated Press religion coverage receives support through the AP’s collaboration with The Conversation US, with funding from Lilly Endowment Inc. The AP is solely responsible for this content.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Well they apologized for their wrongdoings. What's the next step?
it has taken so long and so much damage has been done, the apology is honeslty worthless to a really significant portion of the indigenous community (from what I've heard/read/seen). what needs to happen, in this white guy's opinion, is systemic change to help lift up those communities so they can thrive like they once did before we ruined them. it will literally take generations to heal, and that's only if they do everything right from here on out, which they (government) won't.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Well they apologized for their wrongdoings. What's the next step?
it has taken so long and so much damage has been done, the apology is honeslty worthless to a really significant portion of the indigenous community (from what I've heard/read/seen). what needs to happen, in this white guy's opinion, is systemic change to help lift up those communities so they can thrive like they once did before we ruined them. it will literally take generations to heal, and that's only if they do everything right from here on out, which they (government) won't.
They are paying restitution. That is surprising, good but, surprising. Like Mickey says, what and how they dole out that money and what to do with it will probably take years to come to a solution.
Well they apologized for their wrongdoings. What's the next step?
it has taken so long and so much damage has been done, the apology is honeslty worthless to a really significant portion of the indigenous community (from what I've heard/read/seen). what needs to happen, in this white guy's opinion, is systemic change to help lift up those communities so they can thrive like they once did before we ruined them. it will literally take generations to heal, and that's only if they do everything right from here on out, which they (government) won't.
They are paying restitution. That is surprising, good but, surprising. Like Mickey says, what and how they dole out that money and what to do with it will probably take years to come to a solution.
from the article posted above....
As part of a lawsuit settlement involving the government, churches and
approximately 90,000 survivors, Canada paid reparations that amounted to
billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities.
Canada’s Catholic Church says its dioceses and religious orders have
provided more than $50 million in cash and in-kind contributions and
hope to add $30 million more over the next five years.
would expect the more granular details can be found by your own search or or canadian friends who've followed more closely?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Well they apologized for their wrongdoings. What's the next step?
it has taken so long and so much damage has been done, the apology is honeslty worthless to a really significant portion of the indigenous community (from what I've heard/read/seen). what needs to happen, in this white guy's opinion, is systemic change to help lift up those communities so they can thrive like they once did before we ruined them. it will literally take generations to heal, and that's only if they do everything right from here on out, which they (government) won't.
They are paying restitution. That is surprising, good but, surprising. Like Mickey says, what and how they dole out that money and what to do with it will probably take years to come to a solution.
from the article posted above....
As part of a lawsuit settlement involving the government, churches and
approximately 90,000 survivors, Canada paid reparations that amounted to
billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities.
Canada’s Catholic Church says its dioceses and religious orders have
provided more than $50 million in cash and in-kind contributions and
hope to add $30 million more over the next five years.
would expect the more granular details can be found by your own search or or canadian friends who've followed more closely?
Aboriginal survivors of Canada’s residential school era have mixed emotions about the Canadian federal government’s November 23 decision to pay $2 billion in reparations to survivors. Although satisfying to some, the financial compensation has left other survivors feeling insulted, if not infuriated.
The unprecedented reparations deal includes a $10,000 "common experience" payment to the approximately 90,000 living students who attended the residential schools; an additional $3,000 for every year the students attended; nearly $200 million in funding for healing and educational programs; and the option of pursuing individual claims of abuse through the courts. Survivors 65 years and older can apply for an early payment of $8,000.
as a non-indigenous, I have my opinion on this, so I hesitantly share that this doesn't sit well with me. the first picture I saw of the pope with the headdress I thought it was photoshop.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
as a non-indigenous, I have my opinion on this, so I hesitantly share that this doesn't sit well with me. the first picture I saw of the pope with the headdress I thought it was photoshop.
internal matter as far as I'm concerned amongst the various nations and tribes.....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
as a non-indigenous, I have my opinion on this, so I hesitantly share that this doesn't sit well with me. the first picture I saw of the pope with the headdress I thought it was photoshop.
He is the first Pope to stand up and apologize for what happened. It is a great honor to receive a headdress but I don't see the Pope as worthy just yet but who am I?
Comments
-EV 8/14/93
Jean Chrétien says he never heard about abuse in residential schools while he was minister
Former prime minister Jean Chrétien said Sunday that during his tenure as minister of what was then Indian Affairs, he never heard anything about abuse happening in residential schools.
I use to like this guy. But he’s a lying pos who got wealthy off taxpayers and indigenous lands and does not even have enough character to admit the truth…he’d rather takes his lies to the grave.
During the French interview, Chrétien appeared to draw a comparison between his own experience attending a conventional college boarding school as a teenager to that of Indigenous children who were forced to attend residential schools.
"I ate baked beans and oatmeal. And to be sure, it was hard living in a boarding school, extremely hard. Here in Quebec, we had to [in order to get into university]," he said.
"In Shawinigan, we didn't have a college. We had to go to Trois-Rivières or to Joliette," he explained. "We had no choice. It was hard but my parents insisted I go to university and I had to do it."
Comparing his privilege to that of our ingenious peoples. I guess the part about his parents making the choice to send him to boarding school as opposed to indigenous children who were ripped and stolen from their families, many were raped and murdered, had their culture stolen went from eating nutritious meals that the land provided to eating slop. Fuck this pos of shit old man.
What an awful human…he and all the rest of the politicians are the real savages. Fuck this old wrinkly pos.
Former PM Chretien called out over comments on residential schools
Responding to these assertions on Monday morning, NDP MP and critic for Indigenous youth Charlie Angus cited a hand-written letter he’d read from a teacher to then-minister Chretien that was from St. Anne's Residential School in Fort Albany, Ont. It was dated 1968, he said.
In it, the teacher told him “that crimes are being committed against children, that he as Indian affairs minister had to step up and do something. And Jean Chretien never responded," Angus said.
“Imagine if he had read that letter, and thought ‘I should do something.’ How many children could have been saved? Because some of the worst crimes were being committed at that time. So it is outrageous for Jean Chretien today, to try and whitewash his role…because he knew people reached out to him and they begged him to do the right thing. And he ignored them,” Angus said.
Ottawa to appeal Federal Court ruling on Indigenous child welfare
Feds appeal First Nations child compensation order but launch resolution talks
First Nations leaders say they'll work with feds on child compensation but appeal 'not productive'
This will go well.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/church-of-sweden-sami-indigenous-1.6263595
Improving experiences of young Indigenous girls behind bars. HA!
And another too little too late effort:
if indigenous people want self government (and they should) and this all part of it…
https://davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/what-is-land-back/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/gopublic/indigenous-cibc-job-applicants-traditional-regalia-1.6389541
-EV 8/14/93
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis on Friday made a historic apology to Indigenous peoples for the “deplorable” abuses they suffered in Canada’s Catholic-run residential schools and said he hoped to visit Canada in late July to deliver the apology in person to survivors of the church's misguided missionary zeal.
Francis begged forgiveness during an audience with dozens of members of the Metis, Inuit and First Nations communities who came to Rome seeking a papal apology and a commitment from the Catholic Church to repair the damage. The first pope from the Americas said he hoped to visit Canada around the Feast of St. Anna, which falls on July 26.
More than 150,000 native children in Canada were forced to attend state-funded Christian schools from the 19th century until the 1970s in an effort to isolate them from the influence of their homes and culture. The aim was to Christianize and assimilate them into mainstream society, which previous Canadian governments considered superior.
The Canadian government has admitted that physical and sexual abuse was rampant at the schools, with students beaten for speaking their native languages. That legacy of that abuse and isolation from family has been cited by Indigenous leaders as a root cause of the epidemic rates of alcohol and drug addiction now on Canadian reservations.
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After hearing their stories all week, Francis told the Indigenous groups that the colonial project ripped children from their families, cutting off their roots, traditions and culture and provoking inter-generational trauma that is still being felt today. He said it was a “counter-witness” to the same Gospel that the residential school system purported to uphold.
“For the deplorable conduct of those members of the Catholic Church, I ask forgiveness of the Lord,” Francis said. “And I want to tell you from my heart, that I am greatly pained. And I unite myself with the Canadian bishops in apologizing.”
The trip to Rome by the Indigenous leaders, elders and survivors was years in the making but gained momentum last year after the discovery of hundreds of unmarked graves outside some of the residential schools in Canada. The three groups met separately with Francis over several hours this week, telling him their stories, culminating with Friday's audience.
The president of the Metis National Council, Cassidy Caron, said the Metis elder sitting next her burst into tears upon hearing what she said was a long-overdue apology.
“The pope's words today were historic, to be sure. They were necessary, and I appreciate them deeply,” Caron told reporters in St. Peter's Square. “And I now look forward to the pope's visit to Canada, where he can offer those sincere words of apology directly to our survivors and their families, whose acceptance and healing ultimately matters most.”
First Nations' Chief Gerald Antoine echoed the sentiment, saying Francis recognized the cultural "genocide” that had been inflicted on Indigenous peoples.
“Today is a day that we’ve been waiting for. And certainly one that will be uplifted in our history," he said. “It’s a historical first step, however, only a first step.”
He and other delegates said there was far more for the church to do on the path of reconciliation, but that for now Indigenous leaders insisted on being involved in organizing the papal visit to make sure Francis stops in places that hold spiritual importance to their people.
Natan Obed, president of the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, thanked Francis for addressing all the issues the Indigenous delegations had brought to him. “And he did so in a way that really showed his empathy towards the Indigenous people of Canada,” he said.
Nearly three-quarters of Canada’s 130 residential schools were run by Catholic missionary congregations.
Last May, the Tk’emlups te Secwepemc Nation announced the discovery of 215 gravesites near Kamloops, British Columbia, that were found using ground-penetrating radar. It was Canada’s largest Indigenous residential school and the discovery of the graves was the first of numerous, similar grim sites across the country.
Even before the grave sites were discovered, Canada’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission specifically called for a papal apology to be delivered on Canadian soil for the church’s role in the abuses.
In addition, as part of a settlement of a lawsuit involving the Canadian government, churches and the approximately 90,000 surviving students, Canada paid reparations that amounted to billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities. The Catholic Church, for its part, has paid over $50 million and now intends to add $30 million more over the next five years.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, meanwhile, acknowledged Francis' apology and said he looked forward to having him deliver it in person in Canada.
“This apology would not have happened without the long advocacy of survivors who journeyed to tell their truths directly to the institution responsible and who recounted and relived their painful memories,” he said. “Today’s apology is a step forward in acknowledging the truth of our past in order to right historical wrongs, but there is still work to be done.”
Francis said he felt shame for the role that Catholic educators had played in the harm, “in the abuse and disrespect for your identity, your culture and even your spiritual values,” he said. “It is evident that the contents of the faith cannot be transmitted in a way that is extraneous to the faith itself.”
“It is chilling to think of determined efforts to instill a sense of inferiority, to rob people of their cultural identity, to sever their roots, and to consider all the personal and social effects that this continues to entail: unresolved traumas that have become inter-generational traumas,” he said.
After the papal apology, the audience continued with joyous performances of Indigenous prayers by drummers, dancers and fiddlers that Francis watched, applauded and gave a thumbs up to. The delegates then presented him with gifts, including snowshoes. Francis, for his part, returned a First Nations cradle that the delegation had left with him overnight as he pondered his apology.
Francis' apology went far beyond what Pope Benedict XVI had offered in 2009 when an Assembly of First Nations delegation visited. At the time, Benedict only expressed his “sorrow at the anguish caused by the deplorable conduct of some members of the church.” But he did not apologize.
The Argentine pope is no stranger to offering apologies for his own errors and for what he himself has termed the “crimes” of the institutional church. Most significantly, during a 2015 visit to Bolivia, he apologized for the sins, crimes and offenses committed by the church against Indigenous peoples during the colonial-era conquest of the Americas.
He made clear those same colonial crimes occurred far more recently in Canada at the Catholic-run residential schools.
continues...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-EV 8/14/93
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/the-forks-canada-day-mixed-perspectives-1.6496937
-EV 8/14/93
EDMONTON, Alberta (AP) — Pope Francis began a historic visit to Canada on Sunday to apologize to Indigenous peoples for abuses by missionaries at residential schools, a key step in the Catholic Church’s efforts to reconcile with Native communities and help them heal from generations of trauma.
Francis kissed the hand of a residential school survivor as he was greeted at the Edmonton, Alberta, airport by Indigenous representatives, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Mary Simon, an Inuk who is Canada’s first Indigenous governor general.
The gesture set the tone of what Francis has said is a “penitential pilgrimage” to atone for the role of Catholic missionaries in the forced assimilation of generations of Native children — a visit that has stirred mixed emotions across Canada as survivors and their families cope with the trauma of their losses and receive a long-sought papal apology.
Francis had no official events scheduled Sunday, giving him time to rest before his meeting Monday with survivors near the site of a former residential school in Maskwacis, where he is expected to pray at a cemetery and apologize.
Francis exited the back of his plane with the help of an ambulift, given his strained knee ligaments have forced him to use a wheelchair. The simple welcome ceremony took place in airport hangar, where Indigenous drums and chanting broke the silence. As Trudeau and Simon sat beside Francis, a succession of Indigenous leaders and elders greeted the pope and exchanged gifts. At one point, Francis kissed the hand of residential school survivor Elder Alma Desjarlais of the Frog Lake First Nations as she was introduced to him.
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“Right now, many of our people are skeptical and they are hurt,” said Grand Chief George Arcand Jr. of the Confederacy of Treaty Six First Nations, who greeted the pope. Yet he expressed hope that with the papal apology, “We could begin our journey of healing .. and change the way things have been for our people for many, many years.”
Indigenous groups are seeking more than just words, though, as they press for access to church archives to learn the fate of children who never returned home from the residential schools. They also want justice for the abusers, financial reparations and the return of Indigenous artifacts held by the Vatican Museums.
Assembly of First Nations National Chief RoseAnne Archibald, one of the country’s most prominent Indigenous leaders, said several members of her family attended residential schools, including a sister who died at one in Ontario. She described it as “an institution of assimilation and genocide.”
During her fight to Alberta, “I was just so overcome with emotion and there were different times on the plane where I really had to stop myself from breaking into a deep sob,” she said. “I realized that I am an intergenerational trauma survivor and there are so many people like me.”
Francis’ week-long trip — which will take him to Edmonton; Quebec City and finally Iqaluit, Nunavut, in the far north — follows meetings he held in the spring at the Vatican with delegations from the First Nations, Metis and Inuit. Those meetings culminated with a historic April 1 apology for the “deplorable” abuses committed by some Catholic missionaries in residential schools.
The Canadian government has admitted that physical and sexual abuse were rampant in the state-funded Christian schools that operated from the 19th century to the 1970s. Some 150,000 Indigenous children were taken from their families and forced to attend in an effort to isolate them from the influence of their homes, Native languages and cultures and assimilate them into Canada’s Christian society.
Then-Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a formal apology over the residential schools in 2008. As part of a lawsuit settlement involving the government, churches and approximately 90,000 surviving students, Canada paid reparations that amounted to billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities. Canada’s Catholic Church says its dioceses and religious orders have provided more than $50 million in cash and in-kind contributions, and hope to add $30 million more over the next five years.
Canada’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 2015 had called for a papal apology to be delivered on Canadian soil, but it was only after the 2021 discovery of the possible remains of around 200 children at the former Kamloops residential school in British Columbia that the Vatican mobilized to comply with the request.
“I honestly believe that if it wasn’t for the discovery ... and all the spotlight that was placed on the Oblates or the Catholic Church as well, I don’t think any of this would have happened,” said Raymond Frogner, head archivist at the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation.
Frogner just returned from Rome where he spent five days at the headquarters of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, which operated 48 of the 139 Christian-run residential schools, the most of any Catholic order. After the graves were discovered, the Oblates finally offered “complete transparency and accountability” and allowed him into its headquarters to research the names of alleged sex abusers from a single school in the western Canadian province of Saskatchewan, he said.
The Inuit community, for its part, is seeking Vatican assistance to extradite a single Oblate priest, the Rev. Joannes Rivoire, who ministered to Inuit communities until he left in the 1990s and returned to France. Canadian authorities issued an arrest warrant for him in 1998 on accusations of several counts of sexual abuse, but it has never been served.
Inuit leader Natan Obed personally asked Francis for the Vatican’s help in extraditing Rivoire, telling The Associated Press in March that it was one specific thing the Vatican could do to bring healing to his many victims.
Asked about the request, Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni said last week that he had no information on the case.
At a news conference Saturday in Edmonton, organizers said they will do all they can to enable school survivors to attend the papal events, particularly for the Maskwacis apology and the Tuesday gathering at Lac Ste. Anne, long a popular pilgrimage site for Indigenous Catholics.
Both are in rural areas, and organizers are arranging shuttle transport from various park-and-ride lots. They noted that many survivors are now elderly and frail and may need accessible vehicle transport, diabetic-friendly snacks and other services.
The Rev. Cristino Bouvette, national liturgical coordinator for the papal visit, who is partly of Indigenous heritage, said he hopes the visit is healing for those who “have borne a wound, a cross that they have suffered with, in some cases for generations.”
Bouvette, a priest in the Diocese of Calgary, said the papal liturgical events will have strong Indigenous representation — including prominent roles for Indigenous clergy and the use of Native languages, music and motifs on liturgical vestments.
Bouvette said he’s doing this work in honor of his “kokum,” the Cree word for grandmother, who spent 12 years at a residential school in Edmonton. She “could have probably never imagined those many years later that her grandson would be involved in this work.”
___
Gillies reported from Toronto.
___
Associated Press religion coverage receives support through the AP’s collaboration with The Conversation US, with funding from Lilly Endowment Inc. The AP is solely responsible for this content.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-EV 8/14/93
MASKWACIS, Alberta (AP) — Pope Francis issued a historic apology Monday for the Catholic Church’s cooperation with Canada’s “catastrophic” policy of Indigenous residential schools, saying the forced assimilation of Native peoples into Christian society destroyed their cultures, severed families and marginalized generations.
“I am deeply sorry,” Francis said to applause from school survivors and Indigenous community members gathered at a former residential school south of Edmonton, Alberta. He called the school policy a “disastrous error” that was incompatible with the Gospel and said further investigation and healing is needed.
In the first event of his weeklong “penitential pilgrimage,” Francis traveled to the lands of four Cree nations to pray at a cemetery and then deliver the long-sought apology at nearby powow ceremonial grounds. Four chiefs escorted the pontiff in a wheelchair to the site near the former Ermineskin Indian Residential School, and presented him with a feathered headdress after he spoke.
“I humbly beg forgiveness for the evil committed by so many Christians against the Indigenous peoples,” Francis said.
His words went beyond his earlier apology for the “deplorable” acts of missionaries and instead took responsibility for the church’s institutional cooperation with Canada’s “catastrophic” assimilation policy, which the country’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission said amounted to a “cultural genocide.”
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More than 150,000 native children in Canada were forced to attend government-funded Christian schools from the 19th century until the 1970s in an effort to isolate them from the influence of their homes and culture. The aim was to Christianize and assimilate them into mainstream society, which previous Canadian governments considered superior.
Ottawa has admitted that physical and sexual abuse was rampant at the schools, with students beaten for speaking their native languages. That legacy of that abuse and isolation from family has been cited by Indigenous leaders as a root cause of the epidemic rates of alcohol and drug addiction now on Canadian reservations.
The discoveries of hundreds of potential burial sites at former schools in the past year drew international attention to the legacy of the schools in Canada and their counterparts in the United States. The revelations prompted Francis to comply with the truth commission’s call for him to apologize on Canadian soil for the Catholic Church’s role in the abuses; Catholic religious orders operated 66 of the 139 country's residential schools.
Some in the crowd Monday wept as Francis spoke, while others applauded or stayed silent listening to his words, which were delivered in Spanish and then translated into English.
“It’s something that is needed, not only for people to hear but for the church to be accountable,” said Sandi Harper, who travelled with her sister and a church group from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, in honor of their late mother, who went to a residential school.
Harper called the pope’s apology “very genuine.” “He recognizes this road to reconciliation is going to take time, but he is really on board with us,” she said.
Many wore traditional dress, including colorful ribbon skirts and vests with Native motifs. Others donned orange shirts, which have become a symbol of residential school survivors, recalling the story of one woman whose beloved orange shirt, a gift from her grandmother, was confiscated at a school and replaced with a uniform.
Despite the solemnity of the event, the atmosphere seemed at times joyful: Chiefs processed into the site venue to a hypnotic drumbeat, elders danced and the crowd cheered and chanted war songs, victory songs and finally a healing song.
Chief Wilton Littlechild, who was a student at the Ermineskin school and later served on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, welcomed Francis at the start of the ceremony and told people the pontiff had understood their pain.
"We sincerely hope that our encounter this morning, and the words you share with us, will echo with true healing and real home through many generations to come,” he said.
Felisha Crier Hosein traveled from Florida to attend in place of her mother, who helped create the museum for the nearby Samson Cree Nation and had planned to attend, but died in May.
“Sorry is not going to make what happened go away,” she said. “But it means a lot to the elders.”
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who last year apologized for the “incredibly harmful government policy” in organizing the residential school system, was also attending along with the governor general and other officials.
As part of a lawsuit settlement involving the government, churches and approximately 90,000 survivors, Canada paid reparations that amounted to billions of dollars being transferred to Indigenous communities. Canada’s Catholic Church says its dioceses and religious orders have provided more than $50 million in cash and in-kind contributions and hope to add $30 million more over the next five years.
While the pope acknowledged institutional blame, he also made clear that Catholic missionaries were merely cooperating with and implementing the government policy of assimilation, which he termed the “colonizing mentality of the powers.”
“I ask forgiveness, in particular, for the ways in which many members of the church and of religious communities cooperated, not least through their indifference, in projects of cultural destruction and forced assimilation promoted by the governments of that time, which culminated in the system of residential schools,” he said.
He said the policy marginalized generations, suppressed Indigenous languages, led to physical, verbal, psychological and spiritual abuse and “indelibly affected relationships between parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren.” He called for further investigation, a possible reference to Indigenous demands for further access to church records and personnel files of the priests and nuns to identify who was responsible for the abuses.
“Although Christian charity was not absent, and there were many outstanding instances of devotion and care for children, the overall effects of the policies linked to the residential schools were catastrophic,” Francis said. “ What our Christian faith tells us is that this was a disastrous error, incompatible with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
The first pope from the Americas was determined to make this trip, even though torn knee ligaments forced him to cancel a visit to Africa earlier this month.
The six-day visit — which will also include stops in Quebec City and Iqaluit, Nunavut, in the far north — follows meetings Francis held in the spring at the Vatican with delegations from the First Nations, Metis and Inuit. Those meetings culminated with Francis' apology April 1 for “deplorable” abuses at residential schools and a promise to do so again on Canadian soil.
Francis recalled that one of the delegations gave him a set of beaded moccasins as a symbol of children who never came back from the schools, and asked him to return them in Canada. Francis said in these months they “kept alive my sense of sorrow, indignation and shame” but that in returning them he hoped they can also represent a path to walk together.
Event organizers said they would do everything possible to ensure survivors could attend, busing them in and providing mental health counselors knowing that the event could be traumatic for some.
Francis acknowledged that the memories could trigger old wounds and even his mere presence could be traumatic, but he said remembering was important to prevent indifference.
Later Monday, Francis was scheduled to visit Sacred Heart Church of the First Peoples, a Catholic parish in Edmonton oriented toward Indigenous people and culture. The church, whose sanctuary was dedicated last week after being restored from a fire, incorporates Indigenous language and customs in liturgy.
___
Associated Press writer Rob Gillies in Toronto contributed to this report.
___
Associated Press religion coverage receives support through the AP’s collaboration with The Conversation US, with funding from Lilly Endowment Inc. The AP is solely responsible for this content.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-EV 8/14/93
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/canada-arrives-controversial-reparations-agreement
Aboriginal survivors of Canada’s residential school era have mixed emotions about the Canadian federal government’s November 23 decision to pay $2 billion in reparations to survivors. Although satisfying to some, the financial compensation has left other survivors feeling insulted, if not infuriated.
The unprecedented reparations deal includes a $10,000 "common experience" payment to the approximately 90,000 living students who attended the residential schools; an additional $3,000 for every year the students attended; nearly $200 million in funding for healing and educational programs; and the option of pursuing individual claims of abuse through the courts. Survivors 65 years and older can apply for an early payment of $8,000.
as a non-indigenous, I have my opinion on this, so I hesitantly share that this doesn't sit well with me. the first picture I saw of the pope with the headdress I thought it was photoshop.
-EV 8/14/93
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14