Friends Whom Are Not Getting The Vaccine

Matts3221

I am honestly curious if anyone has friends whom are very against the vaccine and if you have tried to talk to them at all.

First I understand that everyone has the right to feel the way they do. However I am finding most anyone against the vaccine seems to have a lot of misinformation about it ( causing miscarriage's , death , not tested enough , changes your DNA ) all of this is so easily debunked and John Oliver did a great piece on it Sunday night.

That said I feel like only friends or family can really approach this subject with someone who is hesitant and really listen to them.

However I have a friend and it was all just " your not my parents " " you have not seen what I have seen " ect ect.

I should say this friend is someone whom I see maybe once or twice a year for the past five years and maybe its just an inflection point on our friendship. I am just wondering if anyone else has had this tough conversation and if it went well I would love to hear tips.   

a5pj

I tell them 1 thing only:
The nurse who I donate blood with had it twice, 2nd time almost killed her and she now has the lungs of an 80 year old smoker, she's like 40. So you don't want to get it twice.
Then I leave it at that.

JeBurkhardt

I work in a Physical Plant department of around 25 employees. 6 or 7 of us got the vaccination. I have talked to some of them and gotten the standard "not a lab rat, it's just the flu, I'm not afraid" responses. They just don't care. Even after someone in another department died of COVID, it didn't sway them. 

mfc2006

I just don't get it. A coworker lost his brother and sister-in-law (in their late 30's/early 40's) to COVID and still thinks that the vaccine is a joke/conspiracy/whatever. 

stuckinline

I have a family member who refuses to get the vaccine. 

Bentleyspop

The vaccine prevents me from banging my head against the wall.
They don't want to get vaccinated that's on them.
But I won't be spending any close indoor time with them. And maybe no outdoor either.

JimmyV

Our wedding is at the end of August. Indoors and rescheduled from last fall. We're struggling with what to do about anti-vax guests. 

tempo_n_groove

JeBurkhardt said:

I work in a Physical Plant department of around 25 employees. 6 or 7 of us got the vaccination. I have talked to some of them and gotten the standard "not a lab rat, it's just the flu, I'm not afraid" responses. They just don't care. Even after someone in another department died of COVID, it didn't sway them. 

You'll see a lot of this.

Bentleyspop

JimmyV said:

Our wedding is at the end of August. Indoors and rescheduled from last fall. We're struggling with what to do about anti-vax guests. 

It's your wedding your day. You can set whatever rules you want. They don't like it fu@& em

Matts3221

mfc2006 said:

I just don't get it. A coworker lost his brother and sister-in-law (in their late 30's/early 40's) to COVID and still thinks that the vaccine is a joke/conspiracy/whatever. 

So this friend almost lost both of his parents , this is what blows my mind. Also I get it I live in a bubble ( most of us do even if we don't want to admit it  ) so pretty much everyone I know has gotten it because well ya know it will save your life or prevent you for getting fucked later in life with lasting heart / lung issues.

I suppose in the end , I may just write that person off. In my mid 40's there are just things I am not dealing with sometimes. IE: we have been living in a hellscape for the past year of Covid yet some don't want to be part of the solution.

a5pj

JimmyV said:

Our wedding is at the end of August. Indoors and rescheduled from last fall. We're struggling with what to do about anti-vax guests. 

We had to tell close friends we aren't going to attend their wedding, we are vaxed, but nowhere near ready to be indoors with a couple hundred ppl. Our daughter is 8, so we still need to protect her as best we can until she can get vaxed too. Sucks, but that's how it is.

brianlux

I'm lucky in the sense that everyone I know with whom I'm close has gotten it.  I'm not lucky in that after 25 days since Moderna shot #2 I have felt like shit.  Fatigue, body aches, depression.  I'm not 100% convinced it was a good move.  But at the same time, if I hadn't gotten the vaccination, maybe I would have gotten COVID.  And maybe my family and friends would stay away from me if I weren't vaccinate.  Fucked either way.  Fuck COVID. 

CROJAM95

They shoulda not released stimulus $$ until you prove you got vaccinated

we would have herd immunity pretty fast

lastexitlondon

My ex wife and mother of 3 of my kids wont get it. She is over weight  and un fit. 
She unfortunately  uses facebook too much and its got in her head. 
Madness . She has friends  that have had bad covid and still wont. Also a co worker in care home that  my bro is a chef in refuses..she will soon lose jer job we think because  she won't..she  is a cancer survivor  and is scared her body wont tolerate it but i said it won't  tolerate covid. Its fucking madness.  

Johnny Abruzzo

We have family members. A 70-year old worried about "long-term side effects" - vaccines have never had side effects later than 6 weeks afterwards. If you try to force them they will just fight back more.

On the other hand some people, especially younger, are just lazy so get on their case to get it done.

lastexitlondon

70 and worried  about long term? What age do they expect to live to? 110? Man thats odd

oftenreading

No one in my family or group of friends is reluctant; in fact, everyone has been very excited to get vaccinated. With those I've spoken with at work it's the same, though I don't ask everyone and I'm sure at least some are not planning on getting vaccinated. I work in health care so we'll likely be masked for at least the medium term. I'm not sure yet what will be done with employees who refuse - I don't think there is any chance they'll be terminated, but they may be asked to wear a mask for longer than the vaccinated crew. 

tbergs

I know several people who aren't getting it, and frankly, I don't care. I got it and so did my wife. We've both also had Covid. Why are people worrying so much about those who don't want to get it? If someone chooses not to get vaccinated, that's up to them and their possible health complications. I find it disappointing when such a small amount of the population is willing to be vaccinated, but because of who was president and how this pandemic was handled, our chance for herd immunity was dead in the water. 20 years from now this moment in time will be looked back on as a great failure and a generation will wonder why the people of today decided against achieving herd immunity.

hedonist

As far as I know, all friends and family are good to go.

I won’t live cowtowing to the obstinate. 

DarthMaeglin

I'll put myself forward as someone who's quasi-hesitant. My concerns however are unique to my country as far as I know (Canada).

Talking with my sister the other night she clearly didn't like that I'm considering waiting for my first shot because my governments (both federal and provincial) are extending the second shot to 16 weeks over the manufacturer's protests.  I'm not against being vaccinated but am contemplating waiting until our supply shortens the gap (I'd personally prefer the more traditional vaccine from AstraZeneca). I'm equally uncomfortable with mixing vaccines,  something my provincial government is looking at. 

The deciding factor may be that I live with my parents who are both over 70 (both have had their first Pfizer shot).

oftenreading

DarthMaeglin said:

I'll put myself forward as someone who's quasi-hesitant. My concerns however are unique to my country as far as I know (Canada).

Talking with my sister the other night she clearly didn't like that I'm considering waiting for my first shot because my governments (both federal and provincial) are extending the second shot to 16 weeks over the manufacturer's protests.  I'm not against being vaccinated but am contemplating waiting until our supply shortens the gap (I'd personally prefer the more traditional vaccine from AstraZeneca). I'm equally uncomfortable with mixing vaccines,  something my provincial government is looking at. 

The deciding factor may be that I live with my parents who are both over 70 (both have had their first Pfizer shot).

The choice is obviously yours but you are increasing your risk by waiting just so that you can have your two doses closer together. The protection from a first dose is nothing to sneeze at and appears to be durable for at least the time interval, unless one is in some way immunocompromised. If you get a first dose and then wait up to 16 weeks for the second dose you have protection of around 70% in that interval, compared to no immunity.

The manufacturers are obliged to reinforce the interval for which they received their approval, because saying anything else contradicts their own submission; however, they know the evidence as well as anyone. There is some evidence now to suggest improved protection with the longer gap once the two shots have been given, rather than lessened protection. 

lastexitlondon

The interval is a good thing  science is showing  antibodies grow over time . Mixing  im not sure about.

oftenreading

lastexitlondon said:

The interval is a good thing  science is showing  antibodies grow over time . Mixing  im not sure about.

We wait for evidence. It's in process. There is sound immunological logic to suggest that mixing is a good thing too. 

lastexitlondon

I agree

DarthMaeglin

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I'll put myself forward as someone who's quasi-hesitant. My concerns however are unique to my country as far as I know (Canada).

Talking with my sister the other night she clearly didn't like that I'm considering waiting for my first shot because my governments (both federal and provincial) are extending the second shot to 16 weeks over the manufacturer's protests.  I'm not against being vaccinated but am contemplating waiting until our supply shortens the gap (I'd personally prefer the more traditional vaccine from AstraZeneca). I'm equally uncomfortable with mixing vaccines,  something my provincial government is looking at. 

The deciding factor may be that I live with my parents who are both over 70 (both have had their first Pfizer shot).

The choice is obviously yours but you are increasing your risk by waiting just so that you can have your two doses closer together. The protection from a first dose is nothing to sneeze at and appears to be durable for at least the time interval, unless one is in some way immunocompromised. If you get a first dose and then wait up to 16 weeks for the second dose you have protection of around 70% in that interval, compared to no immunity.

The manufacturers are obliged to reinforce the interval for which they received their approval, because saying anything else contradicts their own submission; however, they know the evidence as well as anyone. There is some evidence now to suggest improved protection with the longer gap once the two shots have been given, rather than lessened protection. 

Unfortunately my hesitation on the gap falls into the category of "not a lab rat," lol. This is the first I've heard of the gap leading to good protection so I need to look into that,  thanks for the input (everything I've read until now suggested lower protection overall,  with no real studies either way...yet).

And just to be clear,  I truly hope this policy doesn't backfire on us. My biggest fear is actually that Canada will deliver the vaccine-resistant variant to the world, again hoping (and praying) I'm wrong.

lastexitlondon

There is clear evidence  i will see if i can find it. Im not internet savvy though. India will be providing  the variant that you speak of at this  very moment i would guess.

oftenreading

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I'll put myself forward as someone who's quasi-hesitant. My concerns however are unique to my country as far as I know (Canada).

Talking with my sister the other night she clearly didn't like that I'm considering waiting for my first shot because my governments (both federal and provincial) are extending the second shot to 16 weeks over the manufacturer's protests.  I'm not against being vaccinated but am contemplating waiting until our supply shortens the gap (I'd personally prefer the more traditional vaccine from AstraZeneca). I'm equally uncomfortable with mixing vaccines,  something my provincial government is looking at. 

The deciding factor may be that I live with my parents who are both over 70 (both have had their first Pfizer shot).

The choice is obviously yours but you are increasing your risk by waiting just so that you can have your two doses closer together. The protection from a first dose is nothing to sneeze at and appears to be durable for at least the time interval, unless one is in some way immunocompromised. If you get a first dose and then wait up to 16 weeks for the second dose you have protection of around 70% in that interval, compared to no immunity.

The manufacturers are obliged to reinforce the interval for which they received their approval, because saying anything else contradicts their own submission; however, they know the evidence as well as anyone. There is some evidence now to suggest improved protection with the longer gap once the two shots have been given, rather than lessened protection. 

Unfortunately my hesitation on the gap falls into the category of "not a lab rat," lol. This is the first I've heard of the gap leading to good protection so I need to look into that,  thanks for the input (everything I've read until now suggested lower protection overall,  with no real studies either way...yet).

And just to be clear,  I truly hope this policy doesn't backfire on us. My biggest fear is actually that Canada will deliver the vaccine-resistant variant to the world, again hoping (and praying) I'm wrong.

I am really not at all convinced that the dosing strategy of spreading out the intervals will lead to any worsening in the pandemic, and in particular won't lead to any worsening variants. I think people tend to confuse vaccination with an active treatment like, say, antibiotics. Antibiotics work to treat a present infection, and if the infection isn't completely cleared, like if the person doesn't complete their course of antibiotics, then this selects for resistant strains and further problems.

However, vaccination is not at all like that. Vaccination works to prevent infection, and where it can't do that, reduce the severity of the infection. In the absence of vaccination you are essentially at 100% risk of getting infected and transmitting the virus to others if exposed (I'm simplifying here), and in this manner provide a reservoir of infection, and it's this reservoir of infected or potentially infected people that leads to development of variants.

A first dose of vaccine provides a good but not perfect level of protection (the data varies, somewhere between around 70% to the high 80s%). That means that the vaccinated people are significantly less likely to act as a reservoir of infection, and thus to contribute to development of variants. There is no partial treatment effect that promotes variants; the two situations are simply not comparable. Getting even one dose provides you with good protection AND reduces the risk that you will get infected, develop a mutated version of the virus, and transmit it to others. 

Johnny Abruzzo

lastexitlondon said:

70 and worried  about long term? What age do they expect to live to? 110? Man thats odd

Yeah you got it.

Matts3221

tbergs said:

I know several people who aren't getting it, and frankly, I don't care. I got it and so did my wife. We've both also had Covid. Why are people worrying so much about those who don't want to get it? If someone chooses not to get vaccinated, that's up to them and their possible health complications. I find it disappointing when such a small amount of the population is willing to be vaccinated, but because of who was president and how this pandemic was handled, our chance for herd immunity was dead in the water. 20 years from now this moment in time will be looked back on as a great failure and a generation will wonder why the people of today decided against achieving herd immunity.

But its not just them , there are people who cannot get the vaccine ( auto immune issue , currently going thru chemo ) so that person can still be a carrier and give it to someone who medical cannot get the vaccine and that person could get very sick or die.

Also the variants are going to grow as time goes on and those that are not vaccinated will spread them , potentially creating a variant that will make the vaccine useless and put us back at square one come Winter.   

I know message boards can sometimes come across as arguments , I am not shitting on you for your opinion. I have people like my mom who will be 79 this year and she just does not understand. Like when polio was a thing my mom remembers the news reels of those with Iron Lungs , no one marching around saying we are rejecting the Polio vaccine and its something we got rid of.

We may not see eye to eye on this but there are much large repercussions in my opinion to the whole world.   

tempo_n_groove

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I'll put myself forward as someone who's quasi-hesitant. My concerns however are unique to my country as far as I know (Canada).

Talking with my sister the other night she clearly didn't like that I'm considering waiting for my first shot because my governments (both federal and provincial) are extending the second shot to 16 weeks over the manufacturer's protests.  I'm not against being vaccinated but am contemplating waiting until our supply shortens the gap (I'd personally prefer the more traditional vaccine from AstraZeneca). I'm equally uncomfortable with mixing vaccines,  something my provincial government is looking at. 

The deciding factor may be that I live with my parents who are both over 70 (both have had their first Pfizer shot).

The choice is obviously yours but you are increasing your risk by waiting just so that you can have your two doses closer together. The protection from a first dose is nothing to sneeze at and appears to be durable for at least the time interval, unless one is in some way immunocompromised. If you get a first dose and then wait up to 16 weeks for the second dose you have protection of around 70% in that interval, compared to no immunity.

The manufacturers are obliged to reinforce the interval for which they received their approval, because saying anything else contradicts their own submission; however, they know the evidence as well as anyone. There is some evidence now to suggest improved protection with the longer gap once the two shots have been given, rather than lessened protection. 

Unfortunately my hesitation on the gap falls into the category of "not a lab rat," lol. This is the first I've heard of the gap leading to good protection so I need to look into that,  thanks for the input (everything I've read until now suggested lower protection overall,  with no real studies either way...yet).

And just to be clear,  I truly hope this policy doesn't backfire on us. My biggest fear is actually that Canada will deliver the vaccine-resistant variant to the world, again hoping (and praying) I'm wrong.

I am really not at all convinced that the dosing strategy of spreading out the intervals will lead to any worsening in the pandemic, and in particular won't lead to any worsening variants. I think people tend to confuse vaccination with an active treatment like, say, antibiotics. Antibiotics work to treat a present infection, and if the infection isn't completely cleared, like if the person doesn't complete their course of antibiotics, then this selects for resistant strains and further problems.

However, vaccination is not at all like that. Vaccination works to prevent infection, and where it can't do that, reduce the severity of the infection. In the absence of vaccination you are essentially at 100% risk of getting infected and transmitting the virus to others if exposed (I'm simplifying here), and in this manner provide a reservoir of infection, and it's this reservoir of infected or potentially infected people that leads to development of variants.

A first dose of vaccine provides a good but not perfect level of protection (the data varies, somewhere between around 70% to the high 80s%). That means that the vaccinated people are significantly less likely to act as a reservoir of infection, and thus to contribute to development of variants. There is no partial treatment effect that promotes variants; the two situations are simply not comparable. Getting even one dose provides you with good protection AND reduces the risk that you will get infected, develop a mutated version of the virus, and transmit it to others. 

Your body is building an immunity.  Makes sense.

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I'll put myself forward as someone who's quasi-hesitant. My concerns however are unique to my country as far as I know (Canada).

Talking with my sister the other night she clearly didn't like that I'm considering waiting for my first shot because my governments (both federal and provincial) are extending the second shot to 16 weeks over the manufacturer's protests.  I'm not against being vaccinated but am contemplating waiting until our supply shortens the gap (I'd personally prefer the more traditional vaccine from AstraZeneca). I'm equally uncomfortable with mixing vaccines,  something my provincial government is looking at. 

The deciding factor may be that I live with my parents who are both over 70 (both have had their first Pfizer shot).

The choice is obviously yours but you are increasing your risk by waiting just so that you can have your two doses closer together. The protection from a first dose is nothing to sneeze at and appears to be durable for at least the time interval, unless one is in some way immunocompromised. If you get a first dose and then wait up to 16 weeks for the second dose you have protection of around 70% in that interval, compared to no immunity.

The manufacturers are obliged to reinforce the interval for which they received their approval, because saying anything else contradicts their own submission; however, they know the evidence as well as anyone. There is some evidence now to suggest improved protection with the longer gap once the two shots have been given, rather than lessened protection. 

Unfortunately my hesitation on the gap falls into the category of "not a lab rat," lol. This is the first I've heard of the gap leading to good protection so I need to look into that,  thanks for the input (everything I've read until now suggested lower protection overall,  with no real studies either way...yet).

And just to be clear,  I truly hope this policy doesn't backfire on us. My biggest fear is actually that Canada will deliver the vaccine-resistant variant to the world, again hoping (and praying) I'm wrong.

I am really not at all convinced that the dosing strategy of spreading out the intervals will lead to any worsening in the pandemic, and in particular won't lead to any worsening variants. I think people tend to confuse vaccination with an active treatment like, say, antibiotics. Antibiotics work to treat a present infection, and if the infection isn't completely cleared, like if the person doesn't complete their course of antibiotics, then this selects for resistant strains and further problems.

However, vaccination is not at all like that. Vaccination works to prevent infection, and where it can't do that, reduce the severity of the infection. In the absence of vaccination you are essentially at 100% risk of getting infected and transmitting the virus to others if exposed (I'm simplifying here), and in this manner provide a reservoir of infection, and it's this reservoir of infected or potentially infected people that leads to development of variants.

A first dose of vaccine provides a good but not perfect level of protection (the data varies, somewhere between around 70% to the high 80s%). That means that the vaccinated people are significantly less likely to act as a reservoir of infection, and thus to contribute to development of variants. There is no partial treatment effect that promotes variants; the two situations are simply not comparable. Getting even one dose provides you with good protection AND reduces the risk that you will get infected, develop a mutated version of the virus, and transmit it to others. 

Your body is building an immunity.  Makes sense.

Yes. I'm not sure I gave the simplest explanation up there, though I tried

Maybe this is a more coherent answer - with an antibiotic, it's a pharmaceutical agent that is largely doing the job of getting rid of the infection, but with vaccination, it's your own immune system. You either go into an infection with no prior exposure or you go into it with some prior exposure from the vaccine, but in either case it's just your own immune system working the best it can. The better job it is able to do, the better your chance at staying well, destroying the virus, and not passing on mutated versions.