HELP NEEDED - I think I purchased a counterfeit 1998 Dallas Poster - Seeking photos for comparison

ST66483

Sorry if you got scammed OP, I can’t weigh in on this one.

With respect to past fakes there used to be a thread on the old BRY board about this comparing fakes to real. As @100 Pacer  mentioned there were a few confirmed fakes. My recollection is that Istanbul 96, Hartford 98, 03 Texas, 04 Showbox all come to mind, plus a few others (I think some other 98s, with at least one by Mr. Downtown, but I can’t recall if Dallas 98 was one of them or not). Some of the ‘tells’ were thinner paper, print quality, and at least one where they got the print press labelled wrong or missing (e.g. printed by .... was the wrong print company).  

Sorry Phoenix 98 was one of the others too. I believe it was the 98 Phoenix that credits Mr. Downtown it's legit, but credits Ames if it's a fake.

Good luck in getting your answer OP.

oz6269

100 Pacer said:

SHZA said:

100 Pacer said:

SHZA said:

You outbid me. I'd say congrats, but...
Ebay's buyer protection is excellent though. The pics do look a bit suspect. Surprising that people are selling fakes of these. Pretty elaborate scam to get it framed too 

There have been fake ‘96s and ‘98s on the market for the last 20 years.

Evidence, please 

We’d have to hop in the DeLorean but sadly it’s down while I wait for parts to arrive.

There was a fella named Piotr based in Europe on eBay selling fake ‘96s and ‘98s in the early 2000’s (the fake ‘96 Istanbul comes to mind - I strung him along for weeks before pointing out the obvious) and quite a few flooded the market. The fake ‘03 San Antonio/Houston that flooded the market as well. Many others sadly.

If the black red yellow forums were still around, there were several threads about fakes.  I know there are 100% fake Hartford 98s out there.  I'm pretty sure there are fake Boston 98s out there too.  These were actually silk screened fakes.  Digital fakes are newer to me but I don't pay attention like I once did.  

on2legs

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

A framed Dallas just sold on eBay.... hopefully not another fake.  Doesn’t appear to be signed either. And seller has zero feedback. 

This is what I purchased.  

Where was your seller based?  The auction that ended the other day said the seller was in Lansing, Michigan.

oz6269

on2legs said:

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

A framed Dallas just sold on eBay.... hopefully not another fake.  Doesn’t appear to be signed either. And seller has zero feedback. 

This is what I purchased.  

Where was your seller based?  The auction that ended the other day said the seller was in Lansing, Michigan.

Yes.  It said Lansing and the return address said Lansing.  

I actually don't think the seller faked it.  I think he was sold a fake based on our interactions.  The question is did he know he was selling a fake or not.  

SHZA

ST66483 said:

Sorry if you got scammed OP, I can’t weigh in on this one.

With respect to past fakes there used to be a thread on the old BRY board about this comparing fakes to real. As @100 Pacer  mentioned there were a few confirmed fakes. My recollection is that Istanbul 96, Hartford 98, 03 Texas, 04 Showbox all come to mind, plus a few others (I think some other 98s, with at least one by Mr. Downtown, but I can’t recall if Dallas 98 was one of them or not). Some of the ‘tells’ were thinner paper, print quality, and at least one where they got the print press labelled wrong or missing (e.g. printed by .... was the wrong print company).  

Sorry Phoenix 98 was one of the others too. I believe it was the 98 Phoenix that credits Mr. Downtown it's legit, but credits Ames if it's a fake.

Good luck in getting your answer OP.

This thread has some good info. About Raleigh in particular. Also if the print size is off or paper quality 

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/10044/possible-fake-posters-on-ebay-just-a-warning/p1

on2legs

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

A framed Dallas just sold on eBay.... hopefully not another fake.  Doesn’t appear to be signed either. And seller has zero feedback. 

This is what I purchased.  

Where was your seller based?  The auction that ended the other day said the seller was in Lansing, Michigan.

Yes.  It said Lansing and the return address said Lansing.  

I actually don't think the seller faked it.  I think he was sold a fake based on our interactions.  The question is did he know he was selling a fake or not.  

So you have the one that closed on Feb 11 or you have a different one?

cundall23

I just wanted to add that the signature on mine is at the bottom right under "Arena"  and the number is at the bottom left.  I have also seen both under "Arena" as well.

2-feign-reluctance

SHZA said:

100 Pacer said:

SHZA said:

100 Pacer said:

SHZA said:

You outbid me. I'd say congrats, but...
Ebay's buyer protection is excellent though. The pics do look a bit suspect. Surprising that people are selling fakes of these. Pretty elaborate scam to get it framed too 

There have been fake ‘96s and ‘98s on the market for the last 20 years.

Evidence, please 

We’d have to hop in the DeLorean but sadly it’s down while I wait for parts to arrive.

There was a fella named Piotr based in Europe on eBay selling fake ‘96s and ‘98s in the early 2000’s (the fake ‘96 Istanbul comes to mind - I strung him along for weeks before pointing out the obvious) and quite a few flooded the market. The fake ‘03 San Antonio/Houston that flooded the market as well. Many others sadly.

Flux capacitator down? No problem, we just need to find a lightning strike.

What was the issue that revealed they were fake? These weren't selling for that much back then, seems odd that someone would go to the trouble of making fakes for a modest profit 

1.21 jigawatts of trouble all.  

oz6269

on2legs said:

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

A framed Dallas just sold on eBay.... hopefully not another fake.  Doesn’t appear to be signed either. And seller has zero feedback. 

This is what I purchased.  

Where was your seller based?  The auction that ended the other day said the seller was in Lansing, Michigan.

Yes.  It said Lansing and the return address said Lansing.  

I actually don't think the seller faked it.  I think he was sold a fake based on our interactions.  The question is did he know he was selling a fake or not.  

So you have the one that closed on Feb 11 or you have a different one?

I have the one that closed on Feb 11.

on2legs

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

oz6269 said:

on2legs said:

A framed Dallas just sold on eBay.... hopefully not another fake.  Doesn’t appear to be signed either. And seller has zero feedback. 

This is what I purchased.  

Where was your seller based?  The auction that ended the other day said the seller was in Lansing, Michigan.

Yes.  It said Lansing and the return address said Lansing.  

I actually don't think the seller faked it.  I think he was sold a fake based on our interactions.  The question is did he know he was selling a fake or not.  

So you have the one that closed on Feb 11 or you have a different one?

I have the one that closed on Feb 11.

Gotcha.  I think I got confused that there were two of these floating around.  It certainly sounds possible the seller is unaware that it’s a possible fake.  Although the zero feedback seems like a red flag.  I hope you are able to resolve it one way or the other, OP.  Good luck! 

Dvdpenny72

on2legs said:

Your photos definitely don't look like the nice crisp, clean lines you get with a screen print.  There's a lot of noise around the edges that looks like a scanner was used and it's a reprint.

I'd agree that it doesn't look the same. I'd personally also open that frame up and check the paper type. These 98's are printed on several different stocks but if you have any others it's pretty easy to tell upon touch. Kinda nothing like them

on2legs

Also, you can see a big difference in the area that says Murder City Devils.  The eBay one is missing the ink offset of the red over the blue you get from a screen print and it’s missing the white drop shadow as well. 

pdalowsky

100 Pacer said:

SHZA said:

100 Pacer said:

SHZA said:

You outbid me. I'd say congrats, but...
Ebay's buyer protection is excellent though. The pics do look a bit suspect. Surprising that people are selling fakes of these. Pretty elaborate scam to get it framed too 

There have been fake ‘96s and ‘98s on the market for the last 20 years.

Evidence, please 

We’d have to hop in the DeLorean but sadly it’s down while I wait for parts to arrive.

There was a fella named Piotr based in Europe on eBay selling fake ‘96s and ‘98s in the early 2000’s (the fake ‘96 Istanbul comes to mind - I strung him along for weeks before pointing out the obvious) and quite a few flooded the market. The fake ‘03 San Antonio/Houston that flooded the market as well. Many others sadly.

Hartford comes to mind

mace1229

Yeah, if someone has zero feedback that’s pretty suspicious. I understand not being a frequent seller, but your first interaction on eBay is a counterfeit poster? Who doesn’t have an eBay account with some purchases already? And if you don’t, I doubt you’re jumping to eBay to sell a poster. That’s a major red flag. 

oz6269

on2legs said:

Also, you can see a big difference in the area that says Murder City Devils.  The eBay one is missing the ink offset of the red over the blue you get from a screen print and it’s missing the white drop shadow as well. 

The offset in the murder city devils matches badge matches the image of the poster on page 213 of Pearl Jam vs Ames Bros book.  I'm confident this is the original source for the scan.   

tempo_n_groove

I bought the 98 AP off of a member here and it doesn't have the offset on the white either around the Murder City Devils badge.

The poster I have is very crisp and not fuzzy where is says Slushie.  The paper is thin but so is my LA98 which no one was making counterfeits of.

on2legs

I think the giveaway is how fuzzy the details are in the OP’s poster.  The offset could have been unintentional when the poster was screened by Ames.  An artist will usually use registration marks to line up each color screen so the ink ends up in the right spots. But if they don’t accurately line up the marks you could unintentionally get that offset in a genuine poster.  But the details would still be crisp and you wouldn’t get those fuzzy dots like you would get if a copy was digitally scanned and then printed. 

tempo_n_groove

on2legs said:

I think the giveaway is how fuzzy the details are in the OP’s poster.  The offset could have been unintentional when the poster was screened by Ames.  An artist will usually use registration marks to line up each color screen so the ink ends up in the right spots. But if they don’t accurately line up the marks you could unintentionally get that offset in a genuine poster.  But the details would still be crisp and you wouldn’t get those fuzzy dots like you would get if a copy was digitally scanned and then printed. 

Something else on my poster is it has bleed over or layered colors that show up that both Dave and OP's posters don't.  A printer wouldn't have been able to pick that up.

on2legs

tempo_n_groove said:

on2legs said:

I think the giveaway is how fuzzy the details are in the OP’s poster.  The offset could have been unintentional when the poster was screened by Ames.  An artist will usually use registration marks to line up each color screen so the ink ends up in the right spots. But if they don’t accurately line up the marks you could unintentionally get that offset in a genuine poster.  But the details would still be crisp and you wouldn’t get those fuzzy dots like you would get if a copy was digitally scanned and then printed. 

Something else on my poster is it has bleed over or layered colors that show up that both Dave and OP's posters don't.  A printer wouldn't have been able to pick that up.

Dave's poster has that look too.  If you look closely at the photos he posted you can see the bleed and/or layering of colors from the different screens like you describe.  Look at the tear drop shape around the date.  You can see distinct blue and red and also a darker color between them where the colors overlapped slightly.  And I agree with you, Chris... it would be very hard for a digital printer to reproduce it.  It's tough to see too much detail on the photos on ebay to really compare (which might be intentional by the seller).

AmishGuy91

I've always wanted a good Dallas 98 fake for a cheap price since I'd never pay current value.