Washington and Lincoln are out. S.F. school board tosses 44 school names in controversial move

Meltdown99

Washington and Lincoln are out. S.F. school board tosses 44 school names in controversial move

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/education/amp/Washington-and-Lincoln-are-out-S-F-school-board-15900963.php

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

Washington and Lincoln are out. S.F. school board tosses 44 school names in controversial move

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/education/amp/Washington-and-Lincoln-are-out-S-F-school-board-15900963.php

Subscription required to read the article.  Judging by the headline, sounds like a dumb move. 

San Francisco has been my home city for ages.  I suppose it's normal for a city to change in character over time, but so much of what made it a great city in the 50's and 60's, and a decent city in the 70's, 80's and 90's- so many of those best attributes are gone or disappearing.  San Francisco in the 2000's is but a shadow of it's former grand self.  Very sad to see this happen and, in my very opinionated opinion, much of that is due to too many young, wealthy tech people who don't appreciate the history and the long-standing character of the city, and too many over-the-top politically correct so-called "progressives" who haven't lived long enough to have a clear perspective on what makes a well balanced community and social structure.  As much as I have loved this city, I have little interest in going there any more.

DarthMaeglin

Hopefully people can access this version, lol. Gotta say I side with the mayor on this, comes across as misplaced priorities. Not saying the discussion’s not worth having, just poor timing in my opinion.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/san-francisco-to-strip-abraham-lincoln-george-washington-from-school-names

brianlux

DarthMaeglin said:

Hopefully people can access this version, lol. Gotta say I side with the mayor on this, comes across as misplaced priorities. Not saying the discussion’s not worth having, just poor timing in my opinion.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/san-francisco-to-strip-abraham-lincoln-george-washington-from-school-names

Thanks for the readable link!

"It would cost approximately US$440,000 to replace school signs, the Courthouse News reported. Factoring other expenses, the cost could balloon to at least $1 million, according to the Chronicle."

I can think a of much better things to do with that money like feed the homeless, improve special ed classes or clean up the beaches.  I just don't see what the big deal is.  It's not like this school names are "Adolph Hitler Elementary School", or "Mussolini Middle School", or "Attila the Hun High".

hedonist

Mussolini Middle School

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Hopefully people can access this version, lol. Gotta say I side with the mayor on this, comes across as misplaced priorities. Not saying the discussion’s not worth having, just poor timing in my opinion.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/san-francisco-to-strip-abraham-lincoln-george-washington-from-school-names

Thanks for the readable link!

"It would cost approximately US$440,000 to replace school signs, the Courthouse News reported. Factoring other expenses, the cost could balloon to at least $1 million, according to the Chronicle."

I can think a of much better things to do with that money like feed the homeless, improve special ed classes or clean up the beaches.  I just don't see what the big deal is.  It's not like this school names are "Adolph Hitler Elementary School", or "Mussolini Middle School", or "Attila the Hun High".

It will likely be 2 million.  Governments have a way of overspending.

now name the schools after national parks...not after people...people are flawed.  They will never find perfect people.

Meltdown99

hedonist said:

Mussolini Middle School

And they can go to “Hitler High”.

dankind

White privilege clutching its pearls over chickens coming home to roost for a dunderheaded, slave-owning war general and a racist, neckbearded milquetoast in a city of progress.

mace1229

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

brianlux

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

gimmesometruth27

i can imagine the varsity letter at hitler high looking like the AH logo hitler hung over the door of his office at the berghof.

mace1229

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

brianlux

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

Good point!  Hadn't thought of that.  But what do you suppose they would name it?  Quake City?  Dot.comville?  Upwardlymobleton?

mace1229

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

Good point!  Hadn't thought of that.  But what do you suppose they would name it?  Quake City?  Dot.comville?  Upwardlymobleton?

Probably something stupid like Banana Slugs, then make San Jose change their mascot. 

HughFreakingDillon

if we're going to continue with this renaming shit, then do them all, or don't do any of them. there are historical figures across the globe that are considered a net positive to humanity, even if they were alcoholics/drug users/adulterers/abusers/general shitheads/etc. 

all humans are flawed. either we accept that and still honour their achievements to society regardless of their personal demons, or we don't. 

JeBurkhardt

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

Good point!  Hadn't thought of that.  But what do you suppose they would name it?  Quake City?  Dot.comville?  Upwardlymobleton?

Probably something stupid like Banana Slugs, then make San Jose change their mascot. 

The Banana Slugs are UC Santa Cruz. I grew up in San Jose, and while we may have had slugs there, we didn't name any sports teams or mascots after them.

JeBurkhardt

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

Good point!  Hadn't thought of that.  But what do you suppose they would name it?  Quake City?  Dot.comville?  Upwardlymobleton?

The City

mace1229

JeBurkhardt said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

Good point!  Hadn't thought of that.  But what do you suppose they would name it?  Quake City?  Dot.comville?  Upwardlymobleton?

Probably something stupid like Banana Slugs, then make San Jose change their mascot. 

The Banana Slugs are UC Santa Cruz. I grew up in San Jose, and while we may have had slugs there, we didn't name any sports teams or mascots after them.

Thats right, I meant Santa Cruz.

hedonist

gimmesometruth27 said:

i can imagine the varsity letter at hitler high looking like the AH logo hitler hung over the door of his office at the berghof.

 Corporal punishment would be a bitch. 

brianlux

JeBurkhardt said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

Good point!  Hadn't thought of that.  But what do you suppose they would name it?  Quake City?  Dot.comville?  Upwardlymobleton?

The City

There you go!  I've always referred to S.F. as The City anyway (and as a fellow Bay Area-ite, probably you too) so, yeah, right on!

mace1229

brianlux said:

JeBurkhardt said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Seems kind of dumb to me. What is wrong with Lincoln? Are we going to rename cities named after people too? Because that is like half the cities in the country then.

Exactly!

On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum there are probably millions of people who would like to rename Shitabrick, Texas and name it Trumptown, Texas.

Just seems odd to target schools named after presidents, especially presidents that freed slaves and are generally considered the most important in our history. And then, do these people realize their city is named after a saint? A religious figure? St Francis, founded many missions. Just seems ironic to attack one and not the other. I'm actually okay with both names.

Good point!  Hadn't thought of that.  But what do you suppose they would name it?  Quake City?  Dot.comville?  Upwardlymobleton?

The City

There you go!  I've always referred to S.F. as The City anyway (and as a fellow Bay Area-ite, probably you too) so, yeah, right on!

I thought only New Yorkers did that?

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

if we're going to continue with this renaming shit, then do them all, or don't do any of them. there are historical figures across the globe that are considered a net positive to humanity, even if they were alcoholics/drug users/adulterers/abusers/general shitheads/etc. 

all humans are flawed. either we accept that and still honour their achievements to society regardless of their personal demons, or we don't. 

We going to change all the MLK Blvds? 

Honestly, it's a tough argument for me.  I think - there are a lot of people that the good outweighed the bad...but who decides that?  

cincybearcat

Maybe it's time to sell the naming rights to schools to local businesses

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

if we're going to continue with this renaming shit, then do them all, or don't do any of them. there are historical figures across the globe that are considered a net positive to humanity, even if they were alcoholics/drug users/adulterers/abusers/general shitheads/etc. 

all humans are flawed. either we accept that and still honour their achievements to society regardless of their personal demons, or we don't. 

We going to change all the MLK Blvds? 

Honestly, it's a tough argument for me.  I think - there are a lot of people that the good outweighed the bad...but who decides that?  

that's exactly what i mean. we're accepting of the fact that he was a serial adulterer because of the good, which i agree with. sure, those presidents were slave owners, but society needs to look at the context of the time they were living in. you cannot cast judgment on the distant past based on today's standards. 

tbergs

cincybearcat said:

Maybe it's time to sell the naming rights to schools to local businesses

Johnson High sponsored by PornHub...

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

cincybearcat said:

Maybe it's time to sell the naming rights to schools to local businesses

Johnson High sponsored by PornHub...

"where our students rise to the occasion"

Poncier

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

cincybearcat said:

Maybe it's time to sell the naming rights to schools to local businesses

Johnson High sponsored by PornHub...

"where our students rise to the occasion"

"And finish first in their class"

dankind

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

if we're going to continue with this renaming shit, then do them all, or don't do any of them. there are historical figures across the globe that are considered a net positive to humanity, even if they were alcoholics/drug users/adulterers/abusers/general shitheads/etc. 

all humans are flawed. either we accept that and still honour their achievements to society regardless of their personal demons, or we don't. 

We going to change all the MLK Blvds? 

Honestly, it's a tough argument for me.  I think - there are a lot of people that the good outweighed the bad...but who decides that?  

that's exactly what i mean. we're accepting of the fact that he was a serial adulterer because of the good, which i agree with. sure, those presidents were slave owners, but society needs to look at the context of the time they were living in. you cannot cast judgment on the distant past based on today's standards. 

But those schools exist today, not in the distant past. 

Name them for today.

Whatever it costs, it’s a small price to pay for helping to eliminate nearly 500 years of racial trauma, no?

HughFreakingDillon

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

if we're going to continue with this renaming shit, then do them all, or don't do any of them. there are historical figures across the globe that are considered a net positive to humanity, even if they were alcoholics/drug users/adulterers/abusers/general shitheads/etc. 

all humans are flawed. either we accept that and still honour their achievements to society regardless of their personal demons, or we don't. 

We going to change all the MLK Blvds? 

Honestly, it's a tough argument for me.  I think - there are a lot of people that the good outweighed the bad...but who decides that?  

that's exactly what i mean. we're accepting of the fact that he was a serial adulterer because of the good, which i agree with. sure, those presidents were slave owners, but society needs to look at the context of the time they were living in. you cannot cast judgment on the distant past based on today's standards. 

But those schools exist today, not in the distant past. 

Name them for today.

Whatever it costs, it’s a small price to pay for helping to eliminate nearly 500 years of racial trauma, no?

as per part of the argument, during a pandemic, it's actually not a small price to pay. this could wait.

but for the argument that it needs to be changed, do black people associate the founders and earlier presidents who actually did a shitload of good for the country as racially traumatic figures? I don't know, I honestly wouldn't have thought so. it seems a little too abstract to me. (but I acknowledge that could be my white privilege speaking)

dankind

The only reason this is considered a “controversial move” at all is white privilege.

mace1229

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

if we're going to continue with this renaming shit, then do them all, or don't do any of them. there are historical figures across the globe that are considered a net positive to humanity, even if they were alcoholics/drug users/adulterers/abusers/general shitheads/etc. 

all humans are flawed. either we accept that and still honour their achievements to society regardless of their personal demons, or we don't. 

We going to change all the MLK Blvds? 

Honestly, it's a tough argument for me.  I think - there are a lot of people that the good outweighed the bad...but who decides that?  

that's exactly what i mean. we're accepting of the fact that he was a serial adulterer because of the good, which i agree with. sure, those presidents were slave owners, but society needs to look at the context of the time they were living in. you cannot cast judgment on the distant past based on today's standards. 

But those schools exist today, not in the distant past. 

Name them for today.

Whatever it costs, it’s a small price to pay for helping to eliminate nearly 500 years of racial trauma, no?

I just don't get how Lincoln (or in other cases, Grant too) is offensive and helps eliminate 500 years of racial trauma. How is Lincoln, the man who freed the slaves, offensive to black culture?