#46 President Joe Biden
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A Biden plan cuts student loan payments for millions to $0. Will it be the next legal battle?By Collin Binkley58 mins ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration calls it a “student loan safety net.” Opponents call it a backdoor attempt to make college free. And it could be the next battleground in the legal fight over student loan relief.
Starting this summer, millions of Americans with student loans will be able to enroll in a new repayment plan that offers some of the most lenient terms ever. Interest won’t pile up as long as borrowers make regular payments. Millions of people will have monthly payments reduced to $0. And in as little as 10 years, any remaining debt will be canceled.
It's known as the SAVE Plan, and although it was announced last year, it has mostly been overshadowed by President Joe Biden’s proposal for mass student loan cancellation. But now, after the Supreme Court struck down Biden’s forgiveness plan, the repayment option is taking center stage.
Since the ruling Biden has proposed an alternate approach to cancel debt and also shifted attention to the lesser-known initiative, calling it “the most affordable repayment plan ever.” The typical borrower who enrolls in the plan will save $1,000 a month, he said.
Republicans have fought against the plan, saying it oversteps the president’s authority. Sen. Bill Cassidy, the ranking Republican on the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee, called it “deeply unfair” to the 87% of Americans who don’t have student loans.
The Congressional Budget Office previously estimated over the next decade the plan would cost $230 billion, which would be even higher now that the forgiveness plan has been struck down. Estimates from researchers at the University of Pennsylvania put the cost at up to $361 billion.
Emboldened by the Supreme Court's decision on cancellation, some opponents say it’s a matter of time before the repayment plan also faces a legal challenge.
Here’s what to know about the SAVE Plan:
WHAT IS AN INCOME-DRIVEN REPAYMENT PLAN?
The U.S. Education Department offers several plans for repaying federal student loans. Under the standard plan, borrowers are charged a fixed monthly amount that ensures all their debt will be repaid after 10 years. But if borrowers have difficulty paying that amount, they can enroll in one of four plans that offer lower monthly payments based on income and family size. Those are known as income-driven repayment plans.
Income-driven options have been offered for years and generally cap monthly payments at 10% of a borrower’s discretionary income. If a borrower’s earnings are low enough, their bill is reduced to $0. And after 20 or 25 years, any remaining debt gets erased.
HOW IS BIDEN’S PLAN DIFFERENT?
As part of his debt relief plan announced last year, Biden said his Education Department would create a new income-driven repayment plan that lowers payments even further. It became known as the SAVE Plan, and it's generally intended to replace existing income-driven plans.
Borrowers will be able to apply later this summer, but some of the changes will be phased in over time.
Right away, more people will be eligible for $0 payments. The new plan won’t require borrowers to make payments if they earn less than 225% of the federal poverty line — $32,800 a year for a single person. The cutoff for current plans, by contrast, is 150% of the poverty line, or $22,000 a year for a single person.
Another immediate change aims to prevent interest from snowballing.
As long as borrowers make their monthly payments, their overall balance won't increase. Once they cover their adjusted monthly payment — even if it's $0 — any remaining interest will be waived.
Other major changes will take effect in July 2024.
Most notably, payments on undergraduate loans will be capped at 5% of discretionary income, down from 10% now. Those with graduate and undergraduate loans will pay between 5% and 10%, depending on their original loan balance. For millions of Americans, monthly payments could be reduced by half.
Next July will also bring a quicker road to loan forgiveness. Starting then, borrowers with initial balances of $12,000 or less will get the remainder of their loans canceled after 10 years of payments. For each $1,000 borrowed beyond that, the cancellation will come after an additional year of payments.
For example, a borrower with an original balance of $14,000 would get all remaining debt cleared after 12 years. Payments made before 2024 will count toward forgiveness.
HOW DO I APPLY?
The Education Department says it will notify borrowers when the new application process launches this summer. Those enrolled in an existing plan known as REPAYE will automatically be moved into the SAVE plan. Borrowers will also be able to sign up by contacting their loan servicers directly.
It will be available to all borrowers in the Direct Loan Program who are in good standing on their loans.
WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS?
Supporters say Biden’s plan will simplify repayment options and offer relief to millions of borrowers. The Biden administration has argued that ballooning student debt puts college out of reach for too many Americans and holds borrowers back financially.
Opponents call it an unfair perk for those who don't need it, saying it passes a heavy cost onto taxpayers who already repaid student loans or didn’t go to college. Some worry that it will give colleges incentive to raise tuition prices higher since they know many students will get their loans canceled later.
Voices across the political spectrum have said it amounts to a form of free college. Biden campaigned on a promise to make community college free, but it failed to gain support from Congress. Critics say the new plan is an attempt to do something similar without Congress’ approval.
IS IT LEGAL?
That depends on who you ask, but the question hasn’t been taken up by a federal court.
Instead of creating a new payment plan from scratch, the Biden administration proposed changes to an existing plan. It cemented those changes by going through a negotiated rulemaking process that allows the Education Department to develop federal regulations without Congress.
It’s a process that’s commonly used by administrations from both political parties. But critics question whether the new plan goes further than the law allows.
More than 60 Republicans lawmakers urged Education Secretary Miguel Cardona to withdraw the plan in February, calling it “reckless, fiscally irresponsible, and blatantly illegal.”
Supporters argue that the Obama administration similarly used its authority to create a repayment plan that was more generous than any others at the time.
The Biden administration formally finalized the rule this month. Conservatives believe it’s vulnerable to a legal challenge, and some say it’s just a matter of finding a plaintiff with the legal right — or standing — to sue.
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The Associated Press education team receives support from the Carnegie Corporation of New York. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.0 -
The devil speaketh with a forked tongue!curmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I don't know what you're getting at there. Have a good evening.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.0 -
Sorry, should have bolded this part:curmudgeoness said:I don't know what you're getting at there. Have a good evening.
he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.
And I was being facetious but I’m sure, to some, what you claimed would be considered “devilspeak.”09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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no. trump doesn't read.Gern Blansten said:
but if he posted a link to the address....isn't that the same thing?HughFreakingDillon said:
honestly, I think this is an important distinction that goes from malicious to plain out stupid and irresponsible. he linked a news article that contained addresses. that's stupid, but earlier claims were he "posted obama's address on truth social" which leads people to believe he posted the address in his tweet/truth himself, which he didn't.mrussel1 said:
Several details of the arrest are stunning and disturbing, including the fact that Taranto posted the message “Got them surrounded!” above a Trump Truth Social post that included a news article revealing the address of the Obama home, as well as several other prominent Democratic figures.mace1229 said:
No, I agree with you. I think he has said some very irresponsible things before, and this could very well be another example. And if he did it, extremely irresponsible. All I’m saying is something is off. I tried reading more into it before commenting and found almost nothing on how it relates to Trump. It doesn’t even appear he posted the correct address, and the only reason this has even come up from what I can tell is they quoted the prosecutor as referring to a post trump claims was the address. There are people at every network who’s main job description is to follow trump and take screenshots of every post he makes. Kind of weird no one has a copy of this post to add to the story. I can’t recall that happening before. So I’m not saying Trump is a responsible person, I’m saying this is a story that makes me think the media or prosecution has exaggerated what happened. When’s the last time you saw a story about trumps tweet but couldn’t find it? I’m questioning if this post ever even happened. Not because trump is such a good person, but because everyone is so eager to blame trump and not question it.mrussel1 said:
So you don't want to just agree that he's stupid and irresponsible? You think it was a perfectly legitimate thing for the former and potentially future president to do? It's what you would expect of a leader?mace1229 said:
This actually did nothing and completely ignored the whole conversation my spamming something pointless.cblock4life said:
I love when you do this. You are the epitome of walk softly and carry a big stick.mickeyrat said:
I’m just saying the news story with Trump posting Obamas address doesn’t add up to me.
All the headlines want to imply Trump posted the address to condone violence against them. But reading the actual story it doesn’t seem like he even posted the correct address, and gives no indication what the motive actually was. Could have asking how he affords such a big house and non violent at all. But so many just see the headline and are more than happy to jump to the conclusion that Trump was people over to attack Obama.
A good response would be to show me the actually post that I said I couple find. That would prove me wrong if I am, not spamming useless headlines. But since he can’t, makes me believe I’m right even more.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-post-revealing-obama-address-was-shared-by-jan-6-fugitive-hours-before-he-was-arrested-with-guns-near-obama-home/
Partial imageBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
then I stand corrected.The Juggler said:
But he didn't just link to a news article that just so happened to have had the address in there. He apparently posted a screen shot of the part of the article where the address was front and center...for all his followers, including the crazy ones, can see. Plus this was an article from six years ago. Why on earth is that relevant now? It's just reckless behavior anyway you slice it.HughFreakingDillon said:
honestly, I think this is an important distinction that goes from malicious to plain out stupid and irresponsible. he linked a news article that contained addresses. that's stupid, but earlier claims were he "posted obama's address on truth social" which leads people to believe he posted the address in his tweet/truth himself, which he didn't.mrussel1 said:
Several details of the arrest are stunning and disturbing, including the fact that Taranto posted the message “Got them surrounded!” above a Trump Truth Social post that included a news article revealing the address of the Obama home, as well as several other prominent Democratic figures.mace1229 said:
No, I agree with you. I think he has said some very irresponsible things before, and this could very well be another example. And if he did it, extremely irresponsible. All I’m saying is something is off. I tried reading more into it before commenting and found almost nothing on how it relates to Trump. It doesn’t even appear he posted the correct address, and the only reason this has even come up from what I can tell is they quoted the prosecutor as referring to a post trump claims was the address. There are people at every network who’s main job description is to follow trump and take screenshots of every post he makes. Kind of weird no one has a copy of this post to add to the story. I can’t recall that happening before. So I’m not saying Trump is a responsible person, I’m saying this is a story that makes me think the media or prosecution has exaggerated what happened. When’s the last time you saw a story about trumps tweet but couldn’t find it? I’m questioning if this post ever even happened. Not because trump is such a good person, but because everyone is so eager to blame trump and not question it.mrussel1 said:
So you don't want to just agree that he's stupid and irresponsible? You think it was a perfectly legitimate thing for the former and potentially future president to do? It's what you would expect of a leader?mace1229 said:
This actually did nothing and completely ignored the whole conversation my spamming something pointless.cblock4life said:
I love when you do this. You are the epitome of walk softly and carry a big stick.mickeyrat said:I’m just saying the news story with Trump posting Obamas address doesn’t add up to me.
All the headlines want to imply Trump posted the address to condone violence against them. But reading the actual story it doesn’t seem like he even posted the correct address, and gives no indication what the motive actually was. Could have asking how he affords such a big house and non violent at all. But so many just see the headline and are more than happy to jump to the conclusion that Trump was people over to attack Obama.
A good response would be to show me the actually post that I said I couple find. That would prove me wrong if I am, not spamming useless headlines. But since he can’t, makes me believe I’m right even more.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-post-revealing-obama-address-was-shared-by-jan-6-fugitive-hours-before-he-was-arrested-with-guns-near-obama-home/
Partial image
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
It took a little digging to find the actual post. I get the feeling the media, rightfully, doesn't want to amplify this.HughFreakingDillon said:
then I stand corrected.The Juggler said:
But he didn't just link to a news article that just so happened to have had the address in there. He apparently posted a screen shot of the part of the article where the address was front and center...for all his followers, including the crazy ones, can see. Plus this was an article from six years ago. Why on earth is that relevant now? It's just reckless behavior anyway you slice it.HughFreakingDillon said:
honestly, I think this is an important distinction that goes from malicious to plain out stupid and irresponsible. he linked a news article that contained addresses. that's stupid, but earlier claims were he "posted obama's address on truth social" which leads people to believe he posted the address in his tweet/truth himself, which he didn't.mrussel1 said:
Several details of the arrest are stunning and disturbing, including the fact that Taranto posted the message “Got them surrounded!” above a Trump Truth Social post that included a news article revealing the address of the Obama home, as well as several other prominent Democratic figures.mace1229 said:
No, I agree with you. I think he has said some very irresponsible things before, and this could very well be another example. And if he did it, extremely irresponsible. All I’m saying is something is off. I tried reading more into it before commenting and found almost nothing on how it relates to Trump. It doesn’t even appear he posted the correct address, and the only reason this has even come up from what I can tell is they quoted the prosecutor as referring to a post trump claims was the address. There are people at every network who’s main job description is to follow trump and take screenshots of every post he makes. Kind of weird no one has a copy of this post to add to the story. I can’t recall that happening before. So I’m not saying Trump is a responsible person, I’m saying this is a story that makes me think the media or prosecution has exaggerated what happened. When’s the last time you saw a story about trumps tweet but couldn’t find it? I’m questioning if this post ever even happened. Not because trump is such a good person, but because everyone is so eager to blame trump and not question it.mrussel1 said:
So you don't want to just agree that he's stupid and irresponsible? You think it was a perfectly legitimate thing for the former and potentially future president to do? It's what you would expect of a leader?mace1229 said:
This actually did nothing and completely ignored the whole conversation my spamming something pointless.cblock4life said:
I love when you do this. You are the epitome of walk softly and carry a big stick.mickeyrat said:I’m just saying the news story with Trump posting Obamas address doesn’t add up to me.
All the headlines want to imply Trump posted the address to condone violence against them. But reading the actual story it doesn’t seem like he even posted the correct address, and gives no indication what the motive actually was. Could have asking how he affords such a big house and non violent at all. But so many just see the headline and are more than happy to jump to the conclusion that Trump was people over to attack Obama.
A good response would be to show me the actually post that I said I couple find. That would prove me wrong if I am, not spamming useless headlines. But since he can’t, makes me believe I’m right even more.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-post-revealing-obama-address-was-shared-by-jan-6-fugitive-hours-before-he-was-arrested-with-guns-near-obama-home/
Partial image
But, yeah, Trump deserves no benefit of the doubt, ever.www.myspace.com0 -
BAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHcurmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.
Wow....just wow. FJB0 -
See?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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How’s the inflation talk going these days?Out of My Mind and Time said:
BAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHcurmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.
Wow....just wow. FJBjesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
No way anyone with a brain larger than a pea could have heard Biden's remarks and thought that he isn't able to run the office.
It's just disingenuous to push that narrative whether you like him or not.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Well, Wall Street rose on news of “disinflation.” But you know, FJB.josevolution said:
How’s the inflation talk going these days?Out of My Mind and Time said:
BAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHcurmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.
Wow....just wow. FJB09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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I could not have said that better. Thank you. +1curmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.Falling down,...not staying down0 -
cblock4life said:Trump is Humpty Dumpty, the emperor’s new clothes, and the little boy who cried wolf all in one.I just don’t know how anyone can defend trump. Almost every day for seven years this country endured abuse from his lies, mind games, denials, false information. He put our country in jeopardy more than once. How is this not treason and why are so many afraid of him?At this point, Trump followers have two choices. They can either admit that they were absolutely fooled by an egomaniacal narcissist and king of fools, or stubbornly continue to deceive themselves into believing he truly wants what is best for them. At this point, if they don't get that, it means they are so deeply entrenched, so over-powered by the mind set of a cult member, there is little hope of them changing direction. Trump said it best when I declared that he could go out on the street and shoot someone at random and his believers would still support him.The problem here is a psychology that is characterized by the symptoms of cultism.So what's the answer? I really don't know. My own take is that I avoid the topic with these people and if that doesn't work, I simply avoid them all together.Kat said:
I could not have said that better. Thank you. +1curmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.Same here.My sister keeps up on political matters better than anyone I know. A few weeks back, "I said to her, I will vote for Biden in '24 but I'm really concerned about his age." She simply said, "Biden is fine," and gave me that all-knowing big sister look that reminded me of how well she keeps informed. That set my mind at ease.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Anybody remember recently when people were posting the SCOTUS addresses?The Juggler said:
But he didn't just link to a news article that just so happened to have had the address in there. He apparently posted a screen shot of the part of the article where the address was front and center...for all his followers, including the crazy ones, can see. Plus this was an article from six years ago. Why on earth is that relevant now? It's just reckless behavior anyway you slice it.HughFreakingDillon said:
honestly, I think this is an important distinction that goes from malicious to plain out stupid and irresponsible. he linked a news article that contained addresses. that's stupid, but earlier claims were he "posted obama's address on truth social" which leads people to believe he posted the address in his tweet/truth himself, which he didn't.mrussel1 said:
Several details of the arrest are stunning and disturbing, including the fact that Taranto posted the message “Got them surrounded!” above a Trump Truth Social post that included a news article revealing the address of the Obama home, as well as several other prominent Democratic figures.mace1229 said:
No, I agree with you. I think he has said some very irresponsible things before, and this could very well be another example. And if he did it, extremely irresponsible. All I’m saying is something is off. I tried reading more into it before commenting and found almost nothing on how it relates to Trump. It doesn’t even appear he posted the correct address, and the only reason this has even come up from what I can tell is they quoted the prosecutor as referring to a post trump claims was the address. There are people at every network who’s main job description is to follow trump and take screenshots of every post he makes. Kind of weird no one has a copy of this post to add to the story. I can’t recall that happening before. So I’m not saying Trump is a responsible person, I’m saying this is a story that makes me think the media or prosecution has exaggerated what happened. When’s the last time you saw a story about trumps tweet but couldn’t find it? I’m questioning if this post ever even happened. Not because trump is such a good person, but because everyone is so eager to blame trump and not question it.mrussel1 said:
So you don't want to just agree that he's stupid and irresponsible? You think it was a perfectly legitimate thing for the former and potentially future president to do? It's what you would expect of a leader?mace1229 said:
This actually did nothing and completely ignored the whole conversation my spamming something pointless.cblock4life said:
I love when you do this. You are the epitome of walk softly and carry a big stick.mickeyrat said:I’m just saying the news story with Trump posting Obamas address doesn’t add up to me.
All the headlines want to imply Trump posted the address to condone violence against them. But reading the actual story it doesn’t seem like he even posted the correct address, and gives no indication what the motive actually was. Could have asking how he affords such a big house and non violent at all. But so many just see the headline and are more than happy to jump to the conclusion that Trump was people over to attack Obama.
A good response would be to show me the actually post that I said I couple find. That would prove me wrong if I am, not spamming useless headlines. But since he can’t, makes me believe I’m right even more.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-post-revealing-obama-address-was-shared-by-jan-6-fugitive-hours-before-he-was-arrested-with-guns-near-obama-home/
Partial image
I know it's not a world leader but this is the type of guerilla warfare shit that goes on nowadays...0 -
Yes.Halifax2TheMax said:See?0 -
Yeah that was awful too. This lunatic, however, wants to be president again and tens of millions of people support him.tempo_n_groove said:
Anybody remember recently when people were posting the SCOTUS addresses?The Juggler said:
But he didn't just link to a news article that just so happened to have had the address in there. He apparently posted a screen shot of the part of the article where the address was front and center...for all his followers, including the crazy ones, can see. Plus this was an article from six years ago. Why on earth is that relevant now? It's just reckless behavior anyway you slice it.HughFreakingDillon said:
honestly, I think this is an important distinction that goes from malicious to plain out stupid and irresponsible. he linked a news article that contained addresses. that's stupid, but earlier claims were he "posted obama's address on truth social" which leads people to believe he posted the address in his tweet/truth himself, which he didn't.mrussel1 said:
Several details of the arrest are stunning and disturbing, including the fact that Taranto posted the message “Got them surrounded!” above a Trump Truth Social post that included a news article revealing the address of the Obama home, as well as several other prominent Democratic figures.mace1229 said:
No, I agree with you. I think he has said some very irresponsible things before, and this could very well be another example. And if he did it, extremely irresponsible. All I’m saying is something is off. I tried reading more into it before commenting and found almost nothing on how it relates to Trump. It doesn’t even appear he posted the correct address, and the only reason this has even come up from what I can tell is they quoted the prosecutor as referring to a post trump claims was the address. There are people at every network who’s main job description is to follow trump and take screenshots of every post he makes. Kind of weird no one has a copy of this post to add to the story. I can’t recall that happening before. So I’m not saying Trump is a responsible person, I’m saying this is a story that makes me think the media or prosecution has exaggerated what happened. When’s the last time you saw a story about trumps tweet but couldn’t find it? I’m questioning if this post ever even happened. Not because trump is such a good person, but because everyone is so eager to blame trump and not question it.mrussel1 said:
So you don't want to just agree that he's stupid and irresponsible? You think it was a perfectly legitimate thing for the former and potentially future president to do? It's what you would expect of a leader?mace1229 said:
This actually did nothing and completely ignored the whole conversation my spamming something pointless.cblock4life said:
I love when you do this. You are the epitome of walk softly and carry a big stick.mickeyrat said:I’m just saying the news story with Trump posting Obamas address doesn’t add up to me.
All the headlines want to imply Trump posted the address to condone violence against them. But reading the actual story it doesn’t seem like he even posted the correct address, and gives no indication what the motive actually was. Could have asking how he affords such a big house and non violent at all. But so many just see the headline and are more than happy to jump to the conclusion that Trump was people over to attack Obama.
A good response would be to show me the actually post that I said I couple find. That would prove me wrong if I am, not spamming useless headlines. But since he can’t, makes me believe I’m right even more.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-post-revealing-obama-address-was-shared-by-jan-6-fugitive-hours-before-he-was-arrested-with-guns-near-obama-home/
Partial image
I know it's not a world leader but this is the type of guerilla warfare shit that goes on nowadays...www.myspace.com0 -
Agree. I’ve noticed that elderly individuals slow down their (our) physical movements so they (we) don’t hurt ourselves. Ed doesn’t jump off the scaffolding anymore either. If an elderly person (barring Alzheimer’s & dementia) keeps their mind busy it’s amazing what they remember, plus they are ornery as hell.Kat said:
I could not have said that better. Thank you. +1curmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:
Biden is old, and he never was a great speaker (in case anyone has forgotten, he has a stutter). But he knows exactly what's going on, and as much as I wish he were 10-15 years younger than he is (kind of wish I was too, TBH), he has the wisdom and experience that we need right now.My MIL is 92 and nothing gets past her.0
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