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Can America recover from Donald Trump?

WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,448
in A Moving Train
He emboldened the racists, the white supremacists, the “patriot” militias. Will they crawl back to their holes? I’m afraid they will not.
If I had known then what I know now...

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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,672
    When Trump was elected, Henry Rollins said, "America has never been more transparent."  I took that as a good thing.  I still think it is. 

    And as well as seeing racism become more visible, so too has the black lives movement and the support of people standing up against all racism.  I see that as a positive move forward.

    Am I overly optimistic?  Ask me when the votes are all counted!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,448
    Yeah, Brian, you’re overly optimistic. The trolls have been emboldened.
    If I had known then what I know now...

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,575
    It’ll take a generation.
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    If he wins tonight, no.  Four more years of the Party of Trump spreading like a cancer and it's over for America.
    If he loses?  Maybe.  But I don't see his people going away quietly, that's for sure.  I think the election of Obama sparked something fierce in a minority of people that we knew existed but was larger than we realized. 

    Either way, I've learned a lot over the last four years and ignorance was kinda bliss.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    May have to wait 4 more years...
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,448
    Meltdown99 said:
    May have to wait 4 more years...

    to what? get rid of the racists, “patriots”, etc,?
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
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    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Wobbie said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    May have to wait 4 more years...

    to what? get rid of the racists, “patriots”, etc,?
    I meant if Trump wins.  You will never rid yourselves of racist, no country will...people suck...
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    Wobbie said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    May have to wait 4 more years...

    to what? get rid of the racists, “patriots”, etc,?

    While I think a Trump loss might have been bloodier tonight, this Trump win is going to embolden the hell out of these people. They're now his defacto enforcers.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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    bootlegbootleg Posts: 472
    No I don’t think we recover.  Even if Biden still pulls it out, the Trump support is large.  I had hoped this was going to be a repudiation of Trump and all he stands for.  It may end up being a reinforcement.
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    bootleg said:
    No I don’t think we recover.  Even if Biden still pulls it out, the Trump support is large.  I had hoped this was going to be a repudiation of Trump and all he stands for.  It may end up being a reinforcement.

    My fantasy was for all the projection to be true (even though I didn't think they were) and to forever pin the GOP as "the Party of Trump." Well, the United States is "The Country of Trump."  That joyless man, working only for himself, rage-tweeting, whining, playing the victim...that's what America is. That's who we are.  And that's probably never going to change.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    one thing's for sure after watching MSNBC for a bit...Biden sure did win against Hillary
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    static111 said:
    one thing's for sure after watching MSNBC for a bit...Biden sure did win against Hillary

    Just makes me wish he'd have run four years ago.  VP of a popular president against an unknown loose cannon? But the party wanted to push Hillary. 
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    one thing's for sure after watching MSNBC for a bit...Biden sure did win against Hillary

    Just makes me wish he'd have run four years ago.  VP of a popular president against an unknown loose cannon? But the party wanted to push Hillary. 
    Didn't Joe say he wasn't mentally available after losing Beau?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    one thing's for sure after watching MSNBC for a bit...Biden sure did win against Hillary

    Just makes me wish he'd have run four years ago.  VP of a popular president against an unknown loose cannon? But the party wanted to push Hillary. 
    Didn't Joe say he wasn't mentally available after losing Beau?

    That kinda rings a bell. But I would not be surprised if, behind the scenes, the party told him to back off because it was Hillary's turn.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,672
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    one thing's for sure after watching MSNBC for a bit...Biden sure did win against Hillary

    Just makes me wish he'd have run four years ago.  VP of a popular president against an unknown loose cannon? But the party wanted to push Hillary. 
    Didn't Joe say he wasn't mentally available after losing Beau?

    That kinda rings a bell. But I would not be surprised if, behind the scenes, the party told him to back off because it was Hillary's turn.

    Probably some of both.  But that's all history. 
    The bigger picture is this country is an accelerating disaster.  Please keep your seats in an upright condition and fasten your seat belts.  Better yet, get a parachute. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,112
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    one thing's for sure after watching MSNBC for a bit...Biden sure did win against Hillary

    Just makes me wish he'd have run four years ago.  VP of a popular president against an unknown loose cannon? But the party wanted to push Hillary. 
    Didn't Joe say he wasn't mentally available after losing Beau?

    That kinda rings a bell. But I would not be surprised if, behind the scenes, the party told him to back off because it was Hillary's turn.

    Probably some of both.  But that's all history. 
    The bigger picture is this country is an accelerating disaster.  Please keep your seats in an upright condition and fasten your seat belts.  Better yet, get a parachute. 
    Bri, all we have to do is pay him some compliments and he will negotiate with Pelosi. As he is not running for a third term, assuming he even wins now, he may rather want to make grand deals with Dems to help the country by meeting us in the middle. By not running for a third term he doesn’t need his voters anymore. Plus he has already left them out in the cold many times this week.
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,672
    Lerxst1992 said:
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    static111 said:
    one thing's for sure after watching MSNBC for a bit...Biden sure did win against Hillary

    Just makes me wish he'd have run four years ago.  VP of a popular president against an unknown loose cannon? But the party wanted to push Hillary. 
    Didn't Joe say he wasn't mentally available after losing Beau?

    That kinda rings a bell. But I would not be surprised if, behind the scenes, the party told him to back off because it was Hillary's turn.

    Probably some of both.  But that's all history. 
    The bigger picture is this country is an accelerating disaster.  Please keep your seats in an upright condition and fasten your seat belts.  Better yet, get a parachute. 
    Bri, all we have to do is pay him some compliments and he will negotiate with Pelosi. As he is not running for a third term, assuming he even wins now, he may rather want to make grand deals with Dems to help the country by meeting us in the middle. By not running for a third term he doesn’t need his voters anymore. Plus he has already left them out in the cold many times this week.

    Honestly, Lerxst I can't imagine a compromising Trump.  I just don't see it.  Look how he has stirred his followers to hatred, done everything he can to increase environmental degradation, tell lies, make threats, etc.  There is nothing there to trust.

    Besides, reading Cox's letter (see MIckeyrats "Letter..." thread) I'm still hoping to see Biden in the White House.  We'll see.

    Good luck to us all.  I'm going back up on Mt. Everest (via the MacGillivray Freeman film!). 

    Tally ho!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    You think if he steals this election all it will take to make him a good boy is some compliments? @Lerxst1992 have you not been paying attention to this guy. He just came on TV and said he is gonna ask the Supreme Court to stop counting votes while he is ahead. You can’t play fair with that guy
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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    goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,268
    A friend asked me today if the United States could even truly be called ‘United’ anymore. Never in our lifetimes have we seen such division, not only being tolerated but actively encouraged by the man in power.
    Can the ‘Leader of the Free World’ really be the arrogant playground bully who relies on name-calling and belittling others in order to get his way?

    I really hope Biden can somehow pull this off. The bully will be unbearable if he wins again.
    “Do not postpone happiness”
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    lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 11,848
    edited November 2020
    From  a far all i can see everytime the orange one speaks is a narcissist. 
    He needs attention  like air. 
    I hope he loses and can have his air supply cut off. If everyone  unsubscribed from  his twitter would help . Its his direct voice to the world. Sad. Really sad.
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 28,928
    Wobbie said:
    He emboldened the racists, the white supremacists, the “patriot” militias. Will they crawl back to their holes? I’m afraid they will not.
    I think they'll do when the cult of personality disapears. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 1,401
    Thomas Friedman recently said that the world has given us a pass for the 2016 mistake. If Trump is re-elected it will be clear that the US actually is what the world was willing to forgive us for. I never thought this would be close. I’ m not even mad anymore, just sad knowing I have to accept that there are more ugly people in our country than I thought. Such high hopes.  I know it’s not over but damn I was fooled about the decency in our country. I haven’t looked at anyone the same since 2016 and I guess my apprehension of others will continue.
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,946
    Wobbie said:
    He emboldened the racists, the white supremacists, the “patriot” militias. Will they crawl back to their holes? I’m afraid they will not.
    I feel like they will.  tRump is an idiot but we do have to give him credit for being a Pied Piper of idiots.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    I don’t think we recover.  A decisive win with a large margin would have put us on the path to recovery.  A mail biter that still leaves chance for trump to win shows just how nasty we are.  The division is deep.  Trump got more votes than in 2016 and actually expanded his base. Disgusting. 
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,213
    edited November 2020
    static111 said:
    I don’t think we recover.  A decisive win with a large margin would have put us on the path to recovery.  A mail biter that still leaves chance for trump to win shows just how nasty we are.  The division is deep.  Trump got more votes than in 2016 and actually expanded his base. Disgusting. 
    Right, and what it also sets the stage for is a Trump political dynasty. No matter what the result this election, the Trump name remains strongly attached to the Republican party. They are not going to kick him or his kids to the curb after 70 million votes and a nail biter election. I guarantee we see another Trump nominee in the next 20 years. Either Don Jr. or Ivanka would have trounced Biden. His base would be on board and moderates wouldn't have that icky taste of voting for the crime boss.
    It's a hopeless situation...
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,611
    I think we can recover...

    But maybe it is time that the Democrat/left (me included) stops tossing away (and underestimating) the Trump electorate and actually listens to them and learn some lessons.  

    There is a lot of real interesting data out there, especially when it comes to the middle/working class.
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    West Coast DreamgirlWest Coast Dreamgirl Posts: 1,819
    edited November 2020
    A commentator this morning said it would most likely take Biden the full 4 years to undo the damage the orange one has caused.
    Post edited by West Coast Dreamgirl on
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,675
    Possibly unpopular thought here... but if Trump wins today/this week..... I think some states should consider a referendum to separate from the USA. 

    Sounds crazy, I know.  We went through it in Canada in 1995 where the margin for Quebec to separate from Canada was 49.5 to 50.5 (estimate but yes it was that close) 

    When I look at the elections in America historically and you see the completely obvious divide in principles, morals, lifestyles... I think before folks start mulling a civil war, states should consider creating their own countries.  

    Personal opinion, if I'm living in say California or New York or some other 'lock' blue states... and I'm seeing the people of the USA vote Trump in for another 4 years... that red white and blue means very little to me.  

    What does your flag REALLY represent if Trump gets in for another term? 
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,675
    I'll add to my comment as well..  the only other option in my opinion for those who wanna fight for the USA.....  is what John Kasich just said on CNN......   the country is so separate, it needs to be unified.  Whoever wins needs to figure out what the other side wants and how to help.  Which I get!  Compromise!  What a concept!! And I fully support and endorse that to save your country. 

    This is the problem I see.... the turd that may have just won another term has no plans to compromise.  Doesn't want peace. Doesn't want unity. We all know this.  

    So if that's the case, and he gets elected.... like I don't see how you repair that damage. 
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    Parksy said:
    Possibly unpopular thought here... but if Trump wins today/this week..... I think some states should consider a referendum to separate from the USA. 

    Sounds crazy, I know.  We went through it in Canada in 1995 where the margin for Quebec to separate from Canada was 49.5 to 50.5 (estimate but yes it was that close) 

    When I look at the elections in America historically and you see the completely obvious divide in principles, morals, lifestyles... I think before folks start mulling a civil war, states should consider creating their own countries.  

    Personal opinion, if I'm living in say California or New York or some other 'lock' blue states... and I'm seeing the people of the USA vote Trump in for another 4 years... that red white and blue means very little to me.  

    What does your flag REALLY represent if Trump gets in for another term? 

    I think that's a super long shot.  But if it happens, I'm job-searching those states and moving to one before it becomes official. I can't live in the United States minus California, Oregon, and Washington. It would be the 1700s, but with cars and the internet.
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