It's interesting that you don't think as a business owner, you have a responsibility to ensure that a person you are hiring is qualified to work in this country. If business owners spent the less than $50 to properly verify a person, then the undocumented workers would cease coming into the country eventually. They come here to work. If there's no work, they don't come. My company does its due diligence, so can yours. I don't complain that it's the gov't fault that they are here. It's not. It's the business owners who try to pay cheap wages along with the taxes.
I do, that is why we require an I9 and the appropriate accompanying documents. Comparing the commercial construction industry to whatever industry you are in is probably the main disconnect. I imagine you are hiring a completely different demographic than me and if we only had to employ people who were not going to quit in a month your vetting process might make more sense. I don't think you understand the difficulties in managing a workforce that is constantly changing not only personnel but locations. We start laborers out at a minimum of $14/hour and will hire anyone at
that rate as long as they provide what is required by law, I would say 1 out of 5 last more than a month. I am just baffled at your unwillingness to place any fault on our government, maybe it has to do with the business you are in?
I'm in financial services. One of the parts of the business we oversee is a network of call centers and collection agencies. We require full background checks, fingerprinting, drug screening, OFAC check and social verification. For this business, some of the attrition rates are 40-50% annualized. Is construction up higher than that?
It's not that I don't blame the gov't, but there's a practicality matter at work here. The gov't cannot be everywhere. I see this as a supply and demand issue. The businesses that are willing to hire or look the other way because they receive a clear financial benefit (employer taxes) are generating the demand that draws the supply over the border. It's an economics problem to me.
What FiveBelow is getting at is it appears that the vetting you do costs a wee bit more than what it is worth to keep a worker around whom might be there for a month.
We would go through a labor company so we didn't have to put up with all that because it is annoying to put forth all that effort and they quit after a day.
Russel what on earth are you fingerprinting for? I know of 3 jobs that is required for, a police officer, teacher and security guard. How financials needs to do that is interesting.
One of my clients who is a multi-national financial institution requires it. Fingerprinting is the way you effectively hit the Interpol database, HMS, and other services around the world that track criminal activity. I agree this one is overkill, but the client relationship makes it a no brainer. When you deal in financial services, you are touching non-public/confidential personal information all of the time. Names, addresses, socials, bureaus, all sorts of data that would make identify theft a breeze for someone so inclined. My company, and my supply chain, cannot hire someone with any felony or breach of trust misdemeanor on their record without some serious hoops. All employees are bonded which cannot happen if you have that type of criminal past.
It's interesting that you don't think as a business owner, you have a responsibility to ensure that a person you are hiring is qualified to work in this country. If business owners spent the less than $50 to properly verify a person, then the undocumented workers would cease coming into the country eventually. They come here to work. If there's no work, they don't come. My company does its due diligence, so can yours. I don't complain that it's the gov't fault that they are here. It's not. It's the business owners who try to pay cheap wages along with the taxes.
I do, that is why we require an I9 and the appropriate accompanying documents. Comparing the commercial construction industry to whatever industry you are in is probably the main disconnect. I imagine you are hiring a completely different demographic than me and if we only had to employ people who were not going to quit in a month your vetting process might make more sense. I don't think you understand the difficulties in managing a workforce that is constantly changing not only personnel but locations. We start laborers out at a minimum of $14/hour and will hire anyone at
that rate as long as they provide what is required by law, I would say 1 out of 5 last more than a month. I am just baffled at your unwillingness to place any fault on our government, maybe it has to do with the business you are in?
I'm in financial services. One of the parts of the business we oversee is a network of call centers and collection agencies. We require full background checks, fingerprinting, drug screening, OFAC check and social verification. For this business, some of the attrition rates are 40-50% annualized. Is construction up higher than that?
It's not that I don't blame the gov't, but there's a practicality matter at work here. The gov't cannot be everywhere. I see this as a supply and demand issue. The businesses that are willing to hire or look the other way because they receive a clear financial benefit (employer taxes) are generating the demand that draws the supply over the border. It's an economics problem to me.
What FiveBelow is getting at is it appears that the vetting you do costs a wee bit more than what it is worth to keep a worker around whom might be there for a month.
We would go through a labor company so we didn't have to put up with all that because it is annoying to put forth all that effort and they quit after a day.
Russel what on earth are you fingerprinting for? I know of 3 jobs that is required for, a police officer, teacher and security guard. How financials needs to do that is interesting.
One of my clients who is a multi-national financial institution requires it. Fingerprinting is the way you effectively hit the Interpol database, HMS, and other services around the world that track criminal activity. I agree this one is overkill, but the client relationship makes it a no brainer. When you deal in financial services, you are touching non-public/confidential personal information all of the time. Names, addresses, socials, bureaus, all sorts of data that would make identify theft a breeze for someone so inclined. My company, and my supply chain, cannot hire someone with any felony or breach of trust misdemeanor on their record without some serious hoops. All employees are bonded which cannot happen if you have that type of criminal past.
Can we go ahead and use a term like undocumented people or something, non citizens maybe, idk but last I checked, illegals isn’t a type of person. In fact I don’t think it’s illegal to be a person. I know some of you sure were happy about changing the name of the Washington franchise to Football Team. Let’s try not to use the language of the right. Unless of course you think it’s ok to refer to a whole group of people as Illegals. Maybe we can change the name to the Washington Illegals. I mean since it seems to be ok to use everywhere else.
An illegal is an illegal immigrant. Not a group unless it just so happens to be a group of them. Undocumented, illegal, extended stay. Same difference.
As for the govt not really caring about someone's hiring practices? I would say that is true now unless it's public work or state/federal.
What about the person themselves is illegal? Right wing framing. Right wing narrative.
Can we go ahead and use a term like undocumented people or something, non citizens maybe, idk but last I checked, illegals isn’t a type of person. In fact I don’t think it’s illegal to be a person. I know some of you sure were happy about changing the name of the Washington franchise to Football Team. Let’s try not to use the language of the right. Unless of course you think it’s ok to refer to a whole group of people as Illegals. Maybe we can change the name to the Washington Illegals. I mean since it seems to be ok to use everywhere else.
An illegal is an illegal immigrant. Not a group unless it just so happens to be a group of them. Undocumented, illegal, extended stay. Same difference.
As for the govt not really caring about someone's hiring practices? I would say that is true now unless it's public work or state/federal.
What about the person themselves is illegal? Right wing framing. Right wing narrative.
If you don't understand what part of them is illegal then we will just go around in circles...
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
Can we go ahead and use a term like undocumented people or something, non citizens maybe, idk but last I checked, illegals isn’t a type of person. In fact I don’t think it’s illegal to be a person. I know some of you sure were happy about changing the name of the Washington franchise to Football Team. Let’s try not to use the language of the right. Unless of course you think it’s ok to refer to a whole group of people as Illegals. Maybe we can change the name to the Washington Illegals. I mean since it seems to be ok to use everywhere else.
An illegal is an illegal immigrant. Not a group unless it just so happens to be a group of them. Undocumented, illegal, extended stay. Same difference.
As for the govt not really caring about someone's hiring practices? I would say that is true now unless it's public work or state/federal.
What about the person themselves is illegal? Right wing framing. Right wing narrative.
If you don't understand what part of them is illegal then we will just go around in circles...
their point is its the action thats illegal not their person
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Can we go ahead and use a term like undocumented people or something, non citizens maybe, idk but last I checked, illegals isn’t a type of person. In fact I don’t think it’s illegal to be a person. I know some of you sure were happy about changing the name of the Washington franchise to Football Team. Let’s try not to use the language of the right. Unless of course you think it’s ok to refer to a whole group of people as Illegals. Maybe we can change the name to the Washington Illegals. I mean since it seems to be ok to use everywhere else.
An illegal is an illegal immigrant. Not a group unless it just so happens to be a group of them. Undocumented, illegal, extended stay. Same difference.
As for the govt not really caring about someone's hiring practices? I would say that is true now unless it's public work or state/federal.
What about the person themselves is illegal? Right wing framing. Right wing narrative.
If you don't understand what part of them is illegal then we will just go around in circles...
their point is its the action thats illegal not their person
Thank you! I’m glad that at least one person gets it.
Undocumented immigrants are in this country illegally. That's the reality of the situation and it's ok to say that.
Referring to people as "Illegals" however is dehumanizing, which history shows us, leads to bad things.
Exactly my point. Maybe people will understand this coming from you and Mickey. Rather than defaulting to right wing framing.
There are certain things I get and others that exhaust me, this is one of that exhausts me. Is calling someone a criminal whom breaks the law dehumanizing too?
Undocumented immigrants are in this country illegally. That's the reality of the situation and it's ok to say that.
Referring to people as "Illegals" however is dehumanizing, which history shows us, leads to bad things.
Exactly my point. Maybe people will understand this coming from you and Mickey. Rather than defaulting to right wing framing.
There are certain things I get and others that exhaust me, this is one of that exhausts me. Is calling someone a criminal whom breaks the law dehumanizing too?
It just gets a little too much.
Can we move on and agree to disagree?
Get back to discussing real problems?
This isn't about being more sensitive. It's about not treating people as sub-human.
Dehumanizing immigrants IS a real problem, both for immigrants, and our country as a whole.
Undocumented immigrants are in this country illegally. That's the reality of the situation and it's ok to say that.
Referring to people as "Illegals" however is dehumanizing, which history shows us, leads to bad things.
Exactly my point. Maybe people will understand this coming from you and Mickey. Rather than defaulting to right wing framing.
There are certain things I get and others that exhaust me, this is one of that exhausts me. Is calling someone a criminal whom breaks the law dehumanizing too?
It just gets a little too much.
Can we move on and agree to disagree?
Get back to discussing real problems?
This isn't about being more sensitive. It's about not treating people as sub-human.
Dehumanizing immigrants IS a real problem, both for immigrants, and our country as a whole.
This is a hate crime performed by a psychotic and bigoted human. The term I use has been used for as long as I can remember by democrats and republicans. The article focuses on Trumps use of the word "invasion" and not the term illegals.
My use of the term is not making me go out want to shoot the local European or Chinese that are here illegally.
White nationalists, bigots, racists, domestic terrorist's(a word that still doesn't have a place in the US law books still) are indeed a problem. my guess is their use of the word has tarnished it to mean something else.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
then use undocumented. its the more accurate term.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
"punks" for punk rockers. "gamer" for people who play video games. "headbanger" for Motorhead fans.
we still call people Chinese even though there are those that are racist towards that group. is that the standard? if someone is hated because of their "label", how that group distinguishes itself, that label turns unusable? we are giving that much power to the haters?
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
In 2019 hate crimes in the US rose to their highest level in a decade, 3 years after the country elected a president whose campaign centered around vilifying immigrants coming over the southern border.
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
Yep. No one likes having a label hung on them. But sometimes that comes with breaking the law. And illegally immigrating to a country is breaking the law. "Undocumented" makes it sound like a clerical error.
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable?
Maybe so, but I could get in trouble yelling out a lot of slurs that started out as shorthand versions of acceptable terms. For example, "homosexual" is an acceptable term but the shorthand is used as a slur.
Language is powerful and important, whether or not the original intent was to dehumanize.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
Yep. No one likes having a label hung on them. But sometimes that comes with breaking the law. And illegally immigrating to a country is breaking the law. "Undocumented" makes it sound like a clerical error.
Whatever, commie.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
edited March 2021
funny. 99% of the convo revolves around the undocumented/asylum seekers yet roughly half fly in and overstay a visa which is illegal. yet we only ever apply that term to Central Americans and Mexicans coming here.
Or think of "illegals" as being from that region to the south.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
buy it was ok for cubans to come. cuz you know communism
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
funny. 99% of the convo revolves around the undocumented/asylum seekers yet roughly half fly in and overstay a visa which is illegal. yet we only ever apply that term to Central Americans and Mexicans coming here.
I did not. I mentioned the Euro and Chinese here so nanny nanny boo boo.
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
Yep. No one likes having a label hung on them. But sometimes that comes with breaking the law. And illegally immigrating to a country is breaking the law. "Undocumented" makes it sound like a clerical error.
Whatever, commie.
Where did a nice little boy like you learn such a bad word like that?
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
Yep. No one likes having a label hung on them. But sometimes that comes with breaking the law. And illegally immigrating to a country is breaking the law. "Undocumented" makes it sound like a clerical error.
Whatever, commie.
Where did a nice little boy like you learn such a bad word like that?
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
Yep. No one likes having a label hung on them. But sometimes that comes with breaking the law. And illegally immigrating to a country is breaking the law. "Undocumented" makes it sound like a clerical error.
Whatever, commie.
Where did a nice little boy like you learn such a bad word like that?
Don't hang labels on me, hippie.
Any evidence of me being a commie or hippie is completely undocumented.
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
Yep. No one likes having a label hung on them. But sometimes that comes with breaking the law. And illegally immigrating to a country is breaking the law. "Undocumented" makes it sound like a clerical error.
Whatever, commie.
Where did a nice little boy like you learn such a bad word like that?
Don't hang labels on me, hippie.
Any evidence of me being a commie or hippie is completely undocumented.
isn't the term "illegals" just a short hand version of "illegal immigrants", which I believe is still acceptable? I can see why calling them "aliens" is considered dehumanizing, but illegals? we describe people by groups all the time.
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
Yep. No one likes having a label hung on them. But sometimes that comes with breaking the law. And illegally immigrating to a country is breaking the law. "Undocumented" makes it sound like a clerical error.
Whatever, commie.
Where did a nice little boy like you learn such a bad word like that?
Don't hang labels on me, hippie.
Any evidence of me being a commie or hippie is completely undocumented.
Ha! Nice one. Bringing it full circle.
That was actually going to be my initial response to "whatever, commie" but I went with a Seinfeld line instead; Mickey taking exception to a little kid calling Kramer a commie.
Anyone ever refer to that murdering thug "responsible" gun owner as an "illegal?" And if they weren't licensed or permitted, as "undocumented?" Sure, sure they have.
Anyone ever refer to that murdering thug "responsible" gun owner as an "illegal?" And if they weren't licensed or permitted, as "undocumented?" Sure, sure they have.
No, he's responsible remember? Can't go changing your rules to fit your narrative now...
Comments
When you deal in financial services, you are touching non-public/confidential personal information all of the time. Names, addresses, socials, bureaus, all sorts of data that would make identify theft a breeze for someone so inclined. My company, and my supply chain, cannot hire someone with any felony or breach of trust misdemeanor on their record without some serious hoops. All employees are bonded which cannot happen if you have that type of criminal past.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
their point is its the action thats illegal not their person
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Referring to people as "Illegals" however is dehumanizing, which history shows us, leads to bad things.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
It just gets a little too much.
Can we move on and agree to disagree?
Get back to discussing real problems?
Dehumanizing immigrants IS a real problem, both for immigrants, and our country as a whole.
History shows us this.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/2/7/el-paso-walmart-shooting-suspect-charged-with-federal-hate-crimes
My use of the term is not making me go out want to shoot the local European or Chinese that are here illegally.
White nationalists, bigots, racists, domestic terrorist's(a word that still doesn't have a place in the US law books still) are indeed a problem. my guess is their use of the word has tarnished it to mean something else.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"punks" for punk rockers.
"gamer" for people who play video games.
"headbanger" for Motorhead fans.
we still call people Chinese even though there are those that are racist towards that group. is that the standard? if someone is hated because of their "label", how that group distinguishes itself, that label turns unusable? we are giving that much power to the haters?
and just because people aren't as outraged as you, does not mean we don't "get it".
just because you're upset does not mean you're correct.
www.headstonesband.com
In 2019 hate crimes in the US rose to their highest level in a decade, 3 years after the country elected a president whose campaign centered around vilifying immigrants coming over the southern border.
https://apnews.com/article/hate-crimes-rise-fbi-data-ebbcadca8458aba96575da905650120d
History shows us the dangers of dehumanizing people.
How does that saying go, about those who refuse to learn from history?
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
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Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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