Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
So what about helping existing families, pulling them out of poverty? The birth rate issue is how you get conservatives on board.
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
So what about helping existing families, pulling them out of poverty? The birth rate issue is how you get conservatives on board.
Hey I’m all for helping pull people out of poverty, but tying it to increasing birth rates would be ridiculous, and outside of a bubble would lead to plenty of other problems. Fucking conservatives man. Like why not just help raise people out of poverty because it’s the right thing to do and not to make “sky daddy” happy that your country’s population is growing and glorying his name 🤦♂️
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
So what about helping existing families, pulling them out of poverty? The birth rate issue is how you get conservatives on board.
Hey I’m all for helping pull people out of poverty, but tying it to increasing birth rates would be ridiculous, and outside of a bubble would lead to plenty of other problems. Fucking conservatives man. Like why not just help raise people out of poverty because it’s the right thing to do and not to make “sky daddy” happy that your country’s population is growing and glorying his name 🤦♂️
If you like the proposal, why do you care what the GOP incentive is? If Bernie Sanders put out that plan while just saying " It's to help lower and middle class families raise their children", would your reaction have been the same? Would you have been against it?
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
I agree with the "not needing more people" portion for sure. I dislike any program that incentivizes having kids.
I'm a fan of helping families who need it, but I don't know that I'm on board with a program that incentivizes having kids either.
I also believe many conservatives are Anti Choice for no other reason than to secure the Pro Life votes; I don't believe a higher birth rate would move the needle for them on a program like this.
I'm a fan of helping families who need it, but I don't know that I'm on board with a program that incentivizes having kids either.
I also believe many conservatives are Anti Choice for no other reason than to secure the Pro Life votes; I don't believe a higher birth rate would move the needle for them on a program like this.
Same question.. you're for helping families but not incentivizing having children. There's no real way to do the former without the risk of the latter. So because the direct payments may end up doing that, are you against the plan/program? People have been arguing for years that welfare incentivizes people to have kids. Whether that's true or not, I cannot say. But it didn't make me against helping the people that do have children.
I'm a fan of helping families who need it, but I don't know that I'm on board with a program that incentivizes having kids either.
I also believe many conservatives are Anti Choice for no other reason than to secure the Pro Life votes; I don't believe a higher birth rate would move the needle for them on a program like this.
Same question.. you're for helping families but not incentivizing having children. There's no real way to do the former without the risk of the latter. So because the direct payments may end up doing that, are you against the plan/program? People have been arguing for years that welfare incentivizes people to have kids. Whether that's true or not, I cannot say. But it didn't make me against helping the people that do have children.
"I don't know that I'm on board" - I'm not declaring one way or the other, I just don't outright support it without reading more into it.
I firmly believe the second part of what I said, that conservatives wouldn't go for it regardless - they're not pro life, they're anti choice. Upward mobility for the lower class isn't part of the GOP's agenda, so I disagree that a higher birth rate would make the difference for them with a program like this.
I'm a fan of helping families who need it, but I don't know that I'm on board with a program that incentivizes having kids either.
I also believe many conservatives are Anti Choice for no other reason than to secure the Pro Life votes; I don't believe a higher birth rate would move the needle for them on a program like this.
Same question.. you're for helping families but not incentivizing having children. There's no real way to do the former without the risk of the latter. So because the direct payments may end up doing that, are you against the plan/program? People have been arguing for years that welfare incentivizes people to have kids. Whether that's true or not, I cannot say. But it didn't make me against helping the people that do have children.
"I don't know that I'm on board" - I'm not declaring one way or the other, I just don't outright support it without reading more into it.
I firmly believe the second part of what I said, that conservatives wouldn't go for it regardless - they're not pro life, they're anti choice. Upward mobility for the lower class isn't part of the GOP's agenda, so I disagree that a higher birth rate would make the difference for them with a program like this.
Well it is the Romney's plan. Yes, he is a moderate, growing more moderate by the day. Whether it has a chance, I cannot say. I'm more curious about people's reaction to what is fundamentally a welfare reform and middle class entitlement program.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
the argument that welfare or whats proposed "incentivizes having more kids" is bullshit imo.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
the argument that welfare or whats proposed "incentivizes having more kids" is bullshit imo.
Agreed, then that would make the right wing support of the bill welcome, but ultimately fruitless for their purposes.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
For me it was when it was when the birth rate issue was presented as motivation for conservatives to get on board.
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
For me it was when it was when the birth rate issue was presented as motivation for conservatives to get on board.
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
If I misinterpreted, that's on me.
Maybe it means less abortions to them, maybe it just means a higher birth rate. But either way, why does it matter what their motivation is if you agree with the concept. That just makes it more likely to pass. Like I said earlier, if Bernie rolled this exact same program out, not talking about birth rates, would we D's support it reflexively? I think maybe so. Just because Bernie rolls it out doesn't make it more less likely to incentivize having babies or reducing abortion. And at the end of the day, is there anyone against fewer abortions?
Neither GOP voters nor candidates truly care about fewer abortions or it wouldn’t really be an issue. People that vote on it want 0 abortions and will twist the logic to serve that narrative.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
For me it was when it was when the birth rate issue was presented as motivation for conservatives to get on board.
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
If I misinterpreted, that's on me.
Maybe it means less abortions to them, maybe it just means a higher birth rate. But either way, why does it matter what their motivation is if you agree with the concept. That just makes it more likely to pass. Like I said earlier, if Bernie rolled this exact same program out, not talking about birth rates, would we D's support it reflexively? I think maybe so. Just because Bernie rolls it out doesn't make it more less likely to incentivize having babies or reducing abortion. And at the end of the day, is there anyone against fewer abortions?
I don't think either of the boldfaced things would motivate conservatives to vote for such a program, because I genuinely believe the majority of them don't care as much about those things as they let on.
FWIW, I didn't reflexively support it before I knew who presented it... I only found out it was Romney when you mentioned that in a reply, so your point about Bernie doesn't really apply, at least not to me.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
For me it was when it was when the birth rate issue was presented as motivation for conservatives to get on board.
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
If I misinterpreted, that's on me.
Maybe it means less abortions to them, maybe it just means a higher birth rate. But either way, why does it matter what their motivation is if you agree with the concept. That just makes it more likely to pass. Like I said earlier, if Bernie rolled this exact same program out, not talking about birth rates, would we D's support it reflexively? I think maybe so. Just because Bernie rolls it out doesn't make it more less likely to incentivize having babies or reducing abortion. And at the end of the day, is there anyone against fewer abortions?
I don't think either of the boldfaced things would motivate conservatives to vote for such a program, because I genuinely believe the majority of them don't care as much about those things as they let on.
FWIW, I didn't reflexively support it before I knew who presented it... I only found out it was Romney when you mentioned that in a reply, so your point about Bernie doesn't really apply, at least not to me.
Well I can tell you the the conservative intelligentsia are lining up behind this program. I mean people like Ramesh, Douthat, Dreher and other non Trumpy conservatives. From their view, the birth rate is a reason they are putting forth. Now they aren’t voting senators, but these guys influence senators.
Neither GOP voters nor candidates truly care about fewer abortions or it wouldn’t really be an issue. People that vote on it want 0 abortions and will twist the logic to serve that narrative.
Again, why do their reasons matter if the left like the outcome of financial support for struggling families?
Neither GOP voters nor candidates truly care about fewer abortions or it wouldn’t really be an issue. People that vote on it want 0 abortions and will twist the logic to serve that narrative.
That is generalizing. That said, instead of working pathways to fewer abortions, many have pretended to focus solely on a ban.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
For me it was when it was when the birth rate issue was presented as motivation for conservatives to get on board.
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
If I misinterpreted, that's on me.
Maybe it means less abortions to them, maybe it just means a higher birth rate. But either way, why does it matter what their motivation is if you agree with the concept. That just makes it more likely to pass. Like I said earlier, if Bernie rolled this exact same program out, not talking about birth rates, would we D's support it reflexively? I think maybe so. Just because Bernie rolls it out doesn't make it more less likely to incentivize having babies or reducing abortion. And at the end of the day, is there anyone against fewer abortions?
I don't think either of the boldfaced things would motivate conservatives to vote for such a program, because I genuinely believe the majority of them don't care as much about those things as they let on.
FWIW, I didn't reflexively support it before I knew who presented it... I only found out it was Romney when you mentioned that in a reply, so your point about Bernie doesn't really apply, at least not to me.
Well I can tell you the the conservative intelligentsia are lining up behind this program. I mean people like Ramesh, Douthat, Dreher and other non Trumpy conservatives. From their view, the birth rate is a reason they are putting forth. Now they aren’t voting senators, but these guys influence senators.
So do you think this is a good idea or bad one?
If there's legitimate conservative support behind it, then I stand corrected.
Again, I am in favor of helping families who need the help, I'm not anti-welfare. With that being said, I would need to read up more on this to answer your question.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
For me it was when it was when the birth rate issue was presented as motivation for conservatives to get on board.
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
If I misinterpreted, that's on me.
Maybe it means less abortions to them, maybe it just means a higher birth rate. But either way, why does it matter what their motivation is if you agree with the concept. That just makes it more likely to pass. Like I said earlier, if Bernie rolled this exact same program out, not talking about birth rates, would we D's support it reflexively? I think maybe so. Just because Bernie rolls it out doesn't make it more less likely to incentivize having babies or reducing abortion. And at the end of the day, is there anyone against fewer abortions?
I don't think either of the boldfaced things would motivate conservatives to vote for such a program, because I genuinely believe the majority of them don't care as much about those things as they let on.
FWIW, I didn't reflexively support it before I knew who presented it... I only found out it was Romney when you mentioned that in a reply, so your point about Bernie doesn't really apply, at least not to me.
Well I can tell you the the conservative intelligentsia are lining up behind this program. I mean people like Ramesh, Douthat, Dreher and other non Trumpy conservatives. From their view, the birth rate is a reason they are putting forth. Now they aren’t voting senators, but these guys influence senators.
So do you think this is a good idea or bad one?
If there's legitimate conservative support behind it, then I stand corrected.
Again, I am in favor of helping families who need the help, I'm not anti-welfare. With that being said, I would need to read up more on this to answer your question.
Fair enough. I am not saying I support it yet either, but I support the concept to start. I don't know how it all nets out when you start removing tax breaks and the EITC and replace it with straight cash. Will it be a net positive, particularly to the lower income? I'm not sure. But I'm definitely open to the concept and I welcome center right R's dealing with real problems, rather than fantasy stuff. To see actual forward looking legislation being proposed is a step in teh right direction. It also helps move past the age of Trump.
Neither GOP voters nor candidates truly care about fewer abortions or it wouldn’t really be an issue. People that vote on it want 0 abortions and will twist the logic to serve that narrative.
That is generalizing. That said, instead of working pathways to fewer abortions, many have pretended to focus solely on a ban.
Is it? They’re not phased by the fact that abortion rates have dropped consistently for decades and still chastise pro choice more than any other issue.
this discussion lends to the argumentbthat by and large its not pro-life its pro-birth. After that get a fucking job kid.....
People who believe in choice also have kids, and also need help with the expense of raising a child. I assume the last sentence is sarcasm, but what's your real opinion? Are you against this type of help for lower/middle income families?
Yeah not real sure how abortion became a part of this.
For me it was when it was when the birth rate issue was presented as motivation for conservatives to get on board.
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
If I misinterpreted, that's on me.
Maybe it means less abortions to them, maybe it just means a higher birth rate. But either way, why does it matter what their motivation is if you agree with the concept. That just makes it more likely to pass. Like I said earlier, if Bernie rolled this exact same program out, not talking about birth rates, would we D's support it reflexively? I think maybe so. Just because Bernie rolls it out doesn't make it more less likely to incentivize having babies or reducing abortion. And at the end of the day, is there anyone against fewer abortions?
I don't think either of the boldfaced things would motivate conservatives to vote for such a program, because I genuinely believe the majority of them don't care as much about those things as they let on.
FWIW, I didn't reflexively support it before I knew who presented it... I only found out it was Romney when you mentioned that in a reply, so your point about Bernie doesn't really apply, at least not to me.
Well I can tell you the the conservative intelligentsia are lining up behind this program. I mean people like Ramesh, Douthat, Dreher and other non Trumpy conservatives. From their view, the birth rate is a reason they are putting forth. Now they aren’t voting senators, but these guys influence senators.
So do you think this is a good idea or bad one?
If there's legitimate conservative support behind it, then I stand corrected.
Again, I am in favor of helping families who need the help, I'm not anti-welfare. With that being said, I would need to read up more on this to answer your question.
Fair enough. I am not saying I support it yet either, but I support the concept to start. I don't know how it all nets out when you start removing tax breaks and the EITC and replace it with straight cash. Will it be a net positive, particularly to the lower income? I'm not sure. But I'm definitely open to the concept and I welcome center right R's dealing with real problems, rather than fantasy stuff. To see actual forward looking legislation being proposed is a step in teh right direction. It also helps move past the age of Trump.
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
So what about helping existing families, pulling them out of poverty? The birth rate issue is how you get conservatives on board.
Hey I’m all for helping pull people out of poverty, but tying it to increasing birth rates would be ridiculous, and outside of a bubble would lead to plenty of other problems. Fucking conservatives man. Like why not just help raise people out of poverty because it’s the right thing to do and not to make “sky daddy” happy that your country’s population is growing and glorying his name 🤦♂️
If you like the proposal, why do you care what the GOP incentive is? If Bernie Sanders put out that plan while just saying " It's to help lower and middle class families raise their children", would your reaction have been the same? Would you have been against it?
I said I’m for helping Americans out of poverty. I’m for that, but against the religious grandstanding or nationalism birth rate incentives tied to it. I just question why there has to be some convoluted reason for some people getting behind helping others that need help.
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
So what about helping existing families, pulling them out of poverty? The birth rate issue is how you get conservatives on board.
Hey I’m all for helping pull people out of poverty, but tying it to increasing birth rates would be ridiculous, and outside of a bubble would lead to plenty of other problems. Fucking conservatives man. Like why not just help raise people out of poverty because it’s the right thing to do and not to make “sky daddy” happy that your country’s population is growing and glorying his name 🤦♂️
If you like the proposal, why do you care what the GOP incentive is? If Bernie Sanders put out that plan while just saying " It's to help lower and middle class families raise their children", would your reaction have been the same? Would you have been against it?
I said I’m for helping Americans out of poverty. I’m for that, but against the religious grandstanding or nationalism birth rate incentives tied to it. I just question why there has to be some convoluted reason for some people getting behind helping others that need help.
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
So what about helping existing families, pulling them out of poverty? The birth rate issue is how you get conservatives on board.
Hey I’m all for helping pull people out of poverty, but tying it to increasing birth rates would be ridiculous, and outside of a bubble would lead to plenty of other problems. Fucking conservatives man. Like why not just help raise people out of poverty because it’s the right thing to do and not to make “sky daddy” happy that your country’s population is growing and glorying his name 🤦♂️
If you like the proposal, why do you care what the GOP incentive is? If Bernie Sanders put out that plan while just saying " It's to help lower and middle class families raise their children", would your reaction have been the same? Would you have been against it?
I said I’m for helping Americans out of poverty. I’m for that, but against the religious grandstanding or nationalism birth rate incentives tied to it. I just question why there has to be some convoluted reason for some people getting behind helping others that need help.
Fearing elimination of the white race is why.
Who cares the reason? I dropped the red herring out of curiosity and all the commentary ignores the lower and middle class direct benefit.
Agreed and furthermore the world doesn’t need more Americans lol. Less people means more resources. And if we aren’t forcing people not to have kids, or killing kids then a smaller population is great.
So what about helping existing families, pulling them out of poverty? The birth rate issue is how you get conservatives on board.
Hey I’m all for helping pull people out of poverty, but tying it to increasing birth rates would be ridiculous, and outside of a bubble would lead to plenty of other problems. Fucking conservatives man. Like why not just help raise people out of poverty because it’s the right thing to do and not to make “sky daddy” happy that your country’s population is growing and glorying his name 🤦♂️
If you like the proposal, why do you care what the GOP incentive is? If Bernie Sanders put out that plan while just saying " It's to help lower and middle class families raise their children", would your reaction have been the same? Would you have been against it?
I said I’m for helping Americans out of poverty. I’m for that, but against the religious grandstanding or nationalism birth rate incentives tied to it. I just question why there has to be some convoluted reason for some people getting behind helping others that need help.
Fearing elimination of the white race is why.
Who cares the reason? I dropped the red herring out of curiosity and all the commentary ignores the lower and middle class direct benefit.
It’s a wink wink nod nod. Mittens is at least bright enough to know that demographics aren’t on “their side.” And as you well know, a proposal is far from passed upon legislation resulting in law.
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There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
I also believe many conservatives are Anti Choice for no other reason than to secure the Pro Life votes; I don't believe a higher birth rate would move the needle for them on a program like this.
People have been arguing for years that welfare incentivizes people to have kids. Whether that's true or not, I cannot say. But it didn't make me against helping the people that do have children.
I firmly believe the second part of what I said, that conservatives wouldn't go for it regardless - they're not pro life, they're anti choice. Upward mobility for the lower class isn't part of the GOP's agenda, so I disagree that a higher birth rate would make the difference for them with a program like this.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
the argument that welfare or whats proposed "incentivizes having more kids" is bullshit imo.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I inferred from that that conservatives might get behind it as it might mean less abortions.
If I misinterpreted, that's on me.
FWIW, I didn't reflexively support it before I knew who presented it... I only found out it was Romney when you mentioned that in a reply, so your point about Bernie doesn't really apply, at least not to me.
Again, I am in favor of helping families who need the help, I'm not anti-welfare. With that being said, I would need to read up more on this to answer your question.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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