Eagles, Pearl Jam, Guns N’ Roses Among Groups Receiving PPP Loans for Postponed Tours

JimmyV

Bands are seen as people rather than as the small companies they are in this context.

Long Red

cwja said:

Not cool. There was a finite amount of money available. They literally took money from a business that needed it. It’s a disease and they’re all green.

Dude. They are a business. How do you think they pay their employees? They tour (work) and make money (get paid) to give their employees money (a salary). Touring musicians are precisely one of the sectors this money is meant to assist.

nycrats

It is a bit of a bad look, even if it’s allowed. Perhaps the issue is with the system. 

There’s a lot of restaurants that thanks to this we’re able to keep people employed for a bit. However in 6 months they’re still going to be out of business, and those workers out of jobs. Bands like PJ and gnr could easily survive (and still thrive) if they paid their employees. For that reason I think the system that allows this is messed up. It should go to different businesses rather than major rock touring acts, even if some of those businesses get paid 3 times before Pearl Jam gets paid once. 

I wouldn’t say it’s greed, it’s just following the system. But they probably sold more dollars in merch during the pandemic than these loans. Also if they did have employees working they didn’t have them release any weekly live streams for fans as a lot of artists did.  :(

davidos

no problem whatsoever... does PJ the org pay a ton of taxes... yup (unlike amazon, Apple, etc). The PPP program was meant to help small business. The tour was cancelled... those folks lost that income. Done.

now, the Catholic Church and that 1.6B in PPP loans.... hmmm

ConorKavanagh

Seems to me there's a lot of idealistic reasoning going on from people here. Do people expect Pearl Jam the band to pay out of their own savings that they have amassed? Seems they can't do the right thing either way in this situation. I've got no problem whatsoever if they avail of whatever is being offered. It's a business and they have tried to look after the people who have lost out on earnings that were due to be working.

bb4packers

I have no problem with the band taking a PPP loan.   There's a long list of hedge funds, law firms and religious institutions ahead of rock bands on the list of questionable recipients.  I have been surprised at the lack of imagination in making/raising money for the band, crew or other charities during this pandemic.  Unlike most loan recipients, PJ could spend a weekend signing posters or records or baseballs and raise thousands of dollars without breaking a sweat.  A special vault release, merch from canceled tour dates, pandemic related posters or t-shirts, a special livestream, mystery boxes, Lost Dogs 2, etc would all generate revenue.  Jeff's EP was a welcome surprise but it seems as though there's a lot of things the band/10 club could be doing to augment the PPP loans.   

on2legs

davidos said:

no problem whatsoever... does PJ the org pay a ton of taxes... yup (unlike amazon, Apple, etc). The PPP program was meant to help small business. The tour was cancelled... those folks lost that income. Done.

now, the Catholic Church and that 1.6B in PPP loans.... hmmm

How do we know anything about the taxes paid by Pearl Jam?

I have no issue with the band taking part in the program but I do see people’s point if you look at this through some 1992 goggles. 

pearljammr78

Does anybody here look back at themselves from 92-96 and go, hey that’s the person I strived my whole life to be, I need to be that person again. Or was that a different stage of life and everyday I’m evolving. So big picture, I need to help those who support the Pearl Jam juggernaut, and this is best case for the times right now. Why do some people hold on to the past? 95 Ed would hate 2020 Ed. I’m sure 2020 Ed hates lots of 95 Ed. People need to eat. Roadie Dave didn’t write Alive, Roadie Dave still has bills. Move on people. And the merch idea. Sounds great till you break down logistics. You need people in places making the merch. Records don’t press themselves. Covid sucks. Good on Pearl Jam the business supporting their employees. 

on2legs

pearljammr78 said:

Does anybody here look back at themselves from 92-96 and go, hey that’s the person I strived my whole life to be, I need to be that person again. Or was that a different stage of life and everyday I’m evolving. So big picture, I need to help those who support the Pearl Jam juggernaut, and this is best case for the times right now. Why do some people hold on to the past? 95 Ed would hate 2020 Ed. I’m sure 2020 Ed hates lots of 95 Ed. People need to eat. Roadie Dave didn’t write Alive, Roadie Dave still has bills. Move on people. And the merch idea. Sounds great till you break down logistics. You need people in places making the merch. Records don’t press themselves. Covid sucks. Good on Pearl Jam the business supporting their employees. 

I think people making that argument base it on the bands early sentiments about not compromising your principles.  They see some of the bands choices as being in conflict with that philosophy.   I think it’s unfair to hold a rock band to that standard but it is a criticism that could be made. 

ConorKavanagh

Creating merch you're spending money to make money. Obviously people are going to be talking about how great of an idea that is on here, because we're the hardcores. But that would have taken a lot of planning to put together, and wasn't it better to keep everyone at home given what was going on?

Merkin Baller

on2legs said:

davidos said:

no problem whatsoever... does PJ the org pay a ton of taxes... yup (unlike amazon, Apple, etc). The PPP program was meant to help small business. The tour was cancelled... those folks lost that income. Done.

now, the Catholic Church and that 1.6B in PPP loans.... hmmm

How do we know anything about the taxes paid by Pearl Jam?

I have no issue with the band taking part in the program but I do see people’s point if you look at this through some 1992 goggles. 

IMO if the point being made depends on ignoring the last 28 years, it’s a pretty weak point. 

Gern Blansten

nycrats said:

It is a bit of a bad look, even if it’s allowed. Perhaps the issue is with the system. 

There’s a lot of restaurants that thanks to this we’re able to keep people employed for a bit. However in 6 months they’re still going to be out of business, and those workers out of jobs. Bands like PJ and gnr could easily survive (and still thrive) if they paid their employees. For that reason I think the system that allows this is messed up. It should go to different businesses rather than major rock touring acts, even if some of those businesses get paid 3 times before Pearl Jam gets paid once. 

I wouldn’t say it’s greed, it’s just following the system. But they probably sold more dollars in merch during the pandemic than these loans. Also if they did have employees working they didn’t have them release any weekly live streams for fans as a lot of artists did.  :(

That is the same argument for a lot of businesses.  I had a client that just received a $600K PPP loan and their business was not affected in the least.  At least not yet.  So that $600K just supplemented the owners because the cash flow from the business was already covering payroll, etc.

Kevinman

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

Long Red

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

Your "opinion when you read the headline." There ya go, the problem with America in general distilled to a single line. Read deeper than the headline. In fact, research beyond one article. 

Kevinman

Long Red said:

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

Your "opinion when you read the headline." There ya go, the problem with America in general distilled to a single line. Read deeper than the headline. In fact, research beyond one article. 

I’m not interested enough, if it’s something important to me I do.  This isn’t to me, but looks like you’re pretty passionate about it.  How’d your research turn out, summarize for me please.

JimmyV

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

You have money tied up in tickets for shows that will be played next year or refunded. If the shows are played, their people will get paid for working them. This loan got those same people paid this year when there were no shows for them to work.

Kevinman

JimmyV said:

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

You have money tied up in tickets for shows that will be played next year or refunded. If the shows are played, their people will get paid for working them. This loan got those same people paid this year when there were no shows for them to work.

Don’t know enough about it...I thought that(PPP) was to keep employees from losing their jobs.  If there is no job, when does unemployment come into play?

Gern Blansten

Kevinman said:

JimmyV said:

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

You have money tied up in tickets for shows that will be played next year or refunded. If the shows are played, their people will get paid for working them. This loan got those same people paid this year when there were no shows for them to work.

Don’t know enough about it...I thought that(PPP) was to keep employees from losing their jobs.  If there is no job, when does unemployment come into play?

The PPP loans were based on payroll for 2 1/2 months.  There will likely be a lot of layoffs once the funds run out....mainly with restaurants and travel industry businesses.  

Some businesses have likely already laid off employees (or the employee decided to not return and collect unemployment since that, in some cases, might have been more money than what they were making at their jobs) and will opt to repay the PPP loan portion that they elected to not use for payroll/rent/util, etc.

RoleModelsinBlood31

It was there for the taking for most of the businesses out there.  Many were shamed (la lakers, many huge universities come to mind) because they’re so huge they really weren’t impacted the same by Covid as the small mom and pop.  

Any way you cut it though, they were allowed to take their share and they did.  I did as well, and although I only have about 75 employees, I wasn’t going to miss the chance to help float this out.

RoleModelsinBlood31

JimmyV said:

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

You have money tied up in tickets for shows that will be played next year or refunded. If the shows are played, their people will get paid for working them. This loan got those same people paid this year when there were no shows for them to work.

This is absolutely correct.  Like I said, they were allowed to take, and they did.  Has nothing at all to do with their employees and their status.  It’s as simple as they were allowed as a business so they took it.

RoleModelsinBlood31

Gern Blansten said:

Kevinman said:

JimmyV said:

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

You have money tied up in tickets for shows that will be played next year or refunded. If the shows are played, their people will get paid for working them. This loan got those same people paid this year when there were no shows for them to work.

Don’t know enough about it...I thought that(PPP) was to keep employees from losing their jobs.  If there is no job, when does unemployment come into play?

The PPP loans were based on payroll for 2 1/2 months.  There will likely be a lot of layoffs once the funds run out....mainly with restaurants and travel industry businesses.  

Some businesses have likely already laid off employees (or the employee decided to not return and collect unemployment since that, in some cases, might have been more money than what they were making at their jobs) and will opt to repay the PPP loan portion that they elected to not use for payroll/rent/util, etc.

An employee can’t get unemployment if they quit or “decided not to return” as you put it.  And maybe you’re right, but in all the conversations I’ve had with my buddy from college who works at the SBA who helped me out, they haven’t had any businesses return the loan.  That’s kind of preposterous- ideal perhaps but not how the business world works. If anything, they applied when they weren’t even eligible, or created a fake business and fake labor #’s and then stole the $.

Gern Blansten

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Kevinman said:

JimmyV said:

Kevinman said:

Looks bad to me, especially since I have money tied up in tickets.  Just my opinion when I read the headline.  

You have money tied up in tickets for shows that will be played next year or refunded. If the shows are played, their people will get paid for working them. This loan got those same people paid this year when there were no shows for them to work.

Don’t know enough about it...I thought that(PPP) was to keep employees from losing their jobs.  If there is no job, when does unemployment come into play?

The PPP loans were based on payroll for 2 1/2 months.  There will likely be a lot of layoffs once the funds run out....mainly with restaurants and travel industry businesses.  

Some businesses have likely already laid off employees (or the employee decided to not return and collect unemployment since that, in some cases, might have been more money than what they were making at their jobs) and will opt to repay the PPP loan portion that they elected to not use for payroll/rent/util, etc.

An employee can’t get unemployment if they quit or “decided not to return” as you put it.  And maybe you’re right, but in all the conversations I’ve had with my buddy from college who works at the SBA who helped me out, they haven’t had any businesses return the loan.  That’s kind of preposterous- ideal perhaps but not how the business world works. If anything, they applied when they weren’t even eligible, or created a fake business and fake labor #’s and then stole the $.

I don't think any business is repaying anything yet.  But the calculation for repayment likely will mean some business have to repay at least some of the PPP as it is based on retaining full time employees and not cutting their pay by more than 25%

Vitalogensia

I once referred to PJ as a business (specifically I mentioned their business model) and someone said it was the most disgusting thing they've read on the message boards.  I'm not sure why people have a hard time accepting the fact PJ is a business.  It's not a criticism of them or their art.  

bootlegger10

For sure it is a business.   With this amount of money involved you have to treat it like one.

pearljammr78

With the fact that all the money I have spent on merch and tickets paid for Ed’s kitchen remodel in Hawaii( I hope to be invited for breakfast and a joint in the future) Pearl Jam Inc is a god damn business. And a very fine one. My investment has been huge but the return is priceless. Great investment. 

DewieCox

Not a great look but I’d really need info to which we are not privy to make a judgment. Good on them for protecting their employees but if they’re fudging numbers and using it as an investment opportunity or just meeting the bare minimum to qualify for the loan forgiveness, it’s gross. I feel like they deserve the benefit of the doubt with the info we have at this point. $350k-$1mil is chump change compared to the way other companies are cashing in. 

pjhawks

if would have been foolish for PJ's business manager not to look into and eventually take the loan. no good business manager during this time would turn down the opportunity to supplement the income of employees who were going to be out of work.  This is not about the 5 band members themselves. this is about Pearl Jam Inc. and the company taking care of employees, many who have worked with this band for a long long time.  I say good for PJ Inc. in taking care of those employees.

drummer1

Okay but why are Eagles still playing out? I mean. Don’t get me wrong. Eagles were my first rock and roll obsession when I was a young girl and I love them dearly but, wow, Glenn Frey isn’t even around and it was basically his band. It’s a little passé if you ask me. And that’s coming from a fan. 

Just my opinion. 

Glad that they’re doing what they can to support their crew though. Same with all these bands. It shows how much they truly do care for the guys and gals that move them from town to town. 

Bentleyspop

drummer1 said:

Okay but why are Eagles still playing out? I mean. Don’t get me wrong. Eagles were my first rock and roll obsession when I was a young girl and I love them dearly but, wow, Glenn Frey isn’t even around and it was basically his band. It’s a little passé if you ask me. And that’s coming from a fan. 

Just my opinion. 

Glad that they’re doing what they can to support their crew though. Same with all these bands. It shows how much they truly do care for the guys and gals that move them from town to town. 

There's a long history of bands continuing to tour after founding members, lead singers, etc have died or quit.

Dead
AIC
ACDC
The Who
The Rolling Stones
Sublime
Steely Dan
Just to name a few

As long as people are willing to spend they'll continue to tour.

drummer1

Bentleyspop said:

drummer1 said:

Okay but why are Eagles still playing out? I mean. Don’t get me wrong. Eagles were my first rock and roll obsession when I was a young girl and I love them dearly but, wow, Glenn Frey isn’t even around and it was basically his band. It’s a little passé if you ask me. And that’s coming from a fan. 

Just my opinion. 

Glad that they’re doing what they can to support their crew though. Same with all these bands. It shows how much they truly do care for the guys and gals that move them from town to town. 

There's a long history of bands continuing to tour after founding members, lead singers, etc have died or quit.

Dead
AIC
ACDC
The Who
The Rolling Stones
Sublime
Steely Dan
Just to name a few

As long as people are willing to spend they'll continue to tour.

you’re so right. There’s nothing wrong with that, really, if people still enjoy hearing the songs. I just wonder if they’ve crossed a line and become a caricature? I actually saw them on one of their farewell tours when Glenn was still alive and there wasn’t a lot of feeling in the show. It was staged and lifeless which is not how I expected Eagles to perform. I wonder if they’re in it for the wrong reasons at this point? 

Don’t get me wrong, though, I’m glad the songs are still being put into the universe. I play their albums all the time because of the spirit they hold and the ties they have to a really cool and important time in the history of music!!!

My question is, regardless of the band, if you lose or change a member, isn’t that a different band?? 

I know that isn’t what this thread was for. I just love a good Eagles discussion 😂 And, again, I’m so glad they’re supporting their crew in this way.