Seattle Has Fallen...

oftenreading

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

hedonist said:

Every time I see this thread title, I think of Cat’s Morning Has Broken.

Not quite as hopeful, though. 

I got shit (or is that id?) for the title but it sure is seeming more appropriate now. 

  6 blocks represents the entire city?

It’s not your 6 blocks so I guess it’s cool then. Talk about privilege.

It was the people from those blocks who initiated it, so if anyone has the “privilege” to do so it would be them. 

I was going to say “nice try”, but it wasn’t, actually. 

This guy from the block ain’t to happy about it...neither are all the business that are suing the city. But please...keep talking about how awesome and both meaningless it is all at the same time.

https://twitter.com/realjameswoods/status/1276199030708506625?s=21

Goodness, you found “a guy” who isn’t happy! I’m sure that means something. 

Ledbetterman10

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

hedonist said:

Every time I see this thread title, I think of Cat’s Morning Has Broken.

Not quite as hopeful, though. 

I got shit (or is that id?) for the title but it sure is seeming more appropriate now. 

  6 blocks represents the entire city?

It’s not your 6 blocks so I guess it’s cool then. Talk about privilege.

It was the people from those blocks who initiated it, so if anyone has the “privilege” to do so it would be them. 

I was going to say “nice try”, but it wasn’t, actually. 

This guy from the block ain’t to happy about it...neither are all the business that are suing the city. But please...keep talking about how awesome and both meaningless it is all at the same time.

https://twitter.com/realjameswoods/status/1276199030708506625?s=21

Goodness, you found “a guy” who isn’t happy! I’m sure that means something. 

Well he is a black guy, so I'm sure he's very much for black equality and the end of systemic racism. But as a local that has seen what CHOP is actually about, he's had enough of the bullshit. I bet there's a bunch of locals that feel like he does. 

Either way, the Seattle thing seems to be dying down. Portland might be new spot for this stuff. 

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1276441318634319873?s=20

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1276484602601721858?s=20

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1276513546868649984?s=20

tempo_n_groove

Ledbetterman10 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

hedonist said:

Every time I see this thread title, I think of Cat’s Morning Has Broken.

Not quite as hopeful, though. 

I got shit (or is that id?) for the title but it sure is seeming more appropriate now. 

  6 blocks represents the entire city?

It’s not your 6 blocks so I guess it’s cool then. Talk about privilege.

It was the people from those blocks who initiated it, so if anyone has the “privilege” to do so it would be them. 

I was going to say “nice try”, but it wasn’t, actually. 

This guy from the block ain’t to happy about it...neither are all the business that are suing the city. But please...keep talking about how awesome and both meaningless it is all at the same time.

https://twitter.com/realjameswoods/status/1276199030708506625?s=21

Goodness, you found “a guy” who isn’t happy! I’m sure that means something. 

Well he is a black guy, so I'm sure he's very much for black equality and the end of systemic racism. But as a local that has seen what CHOP is actually about, he's had enough of the bullshit. I bet there's a bunch of locals that feel like he does. 

Either way, the Seattle thing seems to be dying down. Portland might be new spot for this stuff. 

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1276441318634319873?s=20

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1276484602601721858?s=20

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1276513546868649984?s=20

What happened to Portland that it's a hotbed for this kind of thing the past few years?

Ledbetterman10

No clue. I guess they're just not hard on that sort of stuff up there. Even this newspaper (The Oregonian) referred to last night's events simply as "protests" and "demonstrations."

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/06/portland-protests-to-continue-for-29th-day-on-1-month-anniversary-of-george-floyds-death.html

jeffbr

Things are again getting interesting at CHOP. A few of the organized protester groups who were in CHOP have left. There are a couple of groups remaining, who say they won't leave. Established community activist leaders not associated with CHOP have spent the last couple of days at CHOP talking to their "leaders" and trying to get them to consolidate their space, and attempt to work with the city to find solutions, but that isn't really happening. The city now has crews on scene to take down barriers and clear out streets, so there's now a stand-off. The police have been barred from using tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper spray, so crowd dispersal options are limited. Unfortunately that probably means that the city council has forced the cops to fall back on batons and tasers now, so if they have to use force, it will be a little more brutal than pepper spraying (good ol' unintended consequences). Hopefully it won't come to a use of force to clear things, but the remaining CHOP residents don't seem to want to work with the system and they simply won't be allowed to stay there indefinitely at the expense of residents and businesses. Not sure how long the waiting game will be played before things are taken to the next level. 

tempo_n_groove

jeffbr said:

Things are again getting interesting at CHOP. A few of the organized protester groups who were in CHOP have left. There are a couple of groups remaining, who say they won't leave. Established community activist leaders not associated with CHOP have spent the last couple of days at CHOP talking to their "leaders" and trying to get them to consolidate their space, and attempt to work with the city to find solutions, but that isn't really happening. The city now has crews on scene to take down barriers and clear out streets, so there's now a stand-off. The police have been barred from using tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper spray, so crowd dispersal options are limited. Unfortunately that probably means that the city council has forced the cops to fall back on batons and tasers now, so if they have to use force, it will be a little more brutal than pepper spraying (good ol' unintended consequences). Hopefully it won't come to a use of force to clear things, but the remaining CHOP residents don't seem to want to work with the system and they simply won't be allowed to stay there indefinitely at the expense of residents and businesses. Not sure how long the waiting game will be played before things are taken to the next level. 

Do you know if the people whom don't want to leave A) have jobs, live there, with an actual address within the 6 blocks, C) what do they expect to gain living on the grass long term?

jeffbr

tempo_n_groove said:

jeffbr said:

Things are again getting interesting at CHOP. A few of the organized protester groups who were in CHOP have left. There are a couple of groups remaining, who say they won't leave. Established community activist leaders not associated with CHOP have spent the last couple of days at CHOP talking to their "leaders" and trying to get them to consolidate their space, and attempt to work with the city to find solutions, but that isn't really happening. The city now has crews on scene to take down barriers and clear out streets, so there's now a stand-off. The police have been barred from using tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper spray, so crowd dispersal options are limited. Unfortunately that probably means that the city council has forced the cops to fall back on batons and tasers now, so if they have to use force, it will be a little more brutal than pepper spraying (good ol' unintended consequences). Hopefully it won't come to a use of force to clear things, but the remaining CHOP residents don't seem to want to work with the system and they simply won't be allowed to stay there indefinitely at the expense of residents and businesses. Not sure how long the waiting game will be played before things are taken to the next level. 

Do you know if the people whom don't want to leave A) have jobs, live there, with an actual address within the 6 blocks, C) what do they expect to gain living on the grass long term?

I don't know, but I'm guessing: a)no, b) no, c) they have lists of demands - most of the groups overlap on a few including releasing those jailed during the riots, defunding the police, etc... But because of their incredibly disjointed and unorganized approach, they've been entirely ineffective working with the city. Instead, it is the activist groups outside of CHOP which have made the most progress.

oftenreading

jeffbr said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jeffbr said:

Things are again getting interesting at CHOP. A few of the organized protester groups who were in CHOP have left. There are a couple of groups remaining, who say they won't leave. Established community activist leaders not associated with CHOP have spent the last couple of days at CHOP talking to their "leaders" and trying to get them to consolidate their space, and attempt to work with the city to find solutions, but that isn't really happening. The city now has crews on scene to take down barriers and clear out streets, so there's now a stand-off. The police have been barred from using tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper spray, so crowd dispersal options are limited. Unfortunately that probably means that the city council has forced the cops to fall back on batons and tasers now, so if they have to use force, it will be a little more brutal than pepper spraying (good ol' unintended consequences). Hopefully it won't come to a use of force to clear things, but the remaining CHOP residents don't seem to want to work with the system and they simply won't be allowed to stay there indefinitely at the expense of residents and businesses. Not sure how long the waiting game will be played before things are taken to the next level. 

Do you know if the people whom don't want to leave A) have jobs, live there, with an actual address within the 6 blocks, C) what do they expect to gain living on the grass long term?

I don't know, but I'm guessing: a)no, b) no, c) they have lists of demands - most of the groups overlap on a few including releasing those jailed during the riots, defunding the police, etc... But because of their incredibly disjointed and unorganized approach, they've been entirely ineffective working with the city. Instead, it is the activist groups outside of CHOP which have made the most progress.

What progress have you seen being made, Jeff? 

It would be good to hear of some positives these days. 

mace1229

brianlux said:

I would describe it more as awesome but failed.

Anytime a group of (mostly younger) people make bold attempts to challenge the strictures of society, that is "awesome" (or inspiring, creative, bold or courageous).  But as often happens, due to either lack of organization or a well defined, cohesive purpose, or through infiltration, or simply from dwindling momentum, cutting edge social experiments often fail. 

Those who disparage such efforts often only consider the latter part of the movement, not the former.

CHAZ reminded me too much of Occupy Wall St. Every time I saw them I couldn’t help but get the feeling they were those basement dwellers who studied liberal arts in college and had no career choices in front of them. And thought it would be fun to play protest, and could afford to do so since they had no real responsibilities in life. That’s what I though of Occupy. CHAZ seemed to have too much of that to be successful. No leader, no defined goal, no clear agenda. Just, like even the mayor described, a block party. A chaotic and unorganized block party where no one brings anything the the bbq but still looking for free food. That kind of block party.

It would have been more inspiring if they were organized and wasn’t described by everyone (except Fox) as a block party.

randynester

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

I would describe it more as awesome but failed.

Anytime a group of (mostly younger) people make bold attempts to challenge the strictures of society, that is "awesome" (or inspiring, creative, bold or courageous).  But as often happens, due to either lack of organization or a well defined, cohesive purpose, or through infiltration, or simply from dwindling momentum, cutting edge social experiments often fail. 

Those who disparage such efforts often only consider the latter part of the movement, not the former.

I thought it was interesting but absolutely dumb to try and do.

In the end what happens?  They become their own country?  What do they think was going to be the outcome?

Young people coming together to make change is great.  What this was, was not.

When the guy "in charge" is a rapper, chances are it's all going to shit.

tempo_n_groove

randynester said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

I would describe it more as awesome but failed.

Anytime a group of (mostly younger) people make bold attempts to challenge the strictures of society, that is "awesome" (or inspiring, creative, bold or courageous).  But as often happens, due to either lack of organization or a well defined, cohesive purpose, or through infiltration, or simply from dwindling momentum, cutting edge social experiments often fail. 

Those who disparage such efforts often only consider the latter part of the movement, not the former.

I thought it was interesting but absolutely dumb to try and do.

In the end what happens?  They become their own country?  What do they think was going to be the outcome?

Young people coming together to make change is great.  What this was, was not.

When the guy "in charge" is a rapper, chances are it's all going to shit.

Chance the Rapper was in charge?  I thought he was a Chitown guy?

randynester

tempo_n_groove said:

randynester said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

I would describe it more as awesome but failed.

Anytime a group of (mostly younger) people make bold attempts to challenge the strictures of society, that is "awesome" (or inspiring, creative, bold or courageous).  But as often happens, due to either lack of organization or a well defined, cohesive purpose, or through infiltration, or simply from dwindling momentum, cutting edge social experiments often fail. 

Those who disparage such efforts often only consider the latter part of the movement, not the former.

I thought it was interesting but absolutely dumb to try and do.

In the end what happens?  They become their own country?  What do they think was going to be the outcome?

Young people coming together to make change is great.  What this was, was not.

When the guy "in charge" is a rapper, chances are it's all going to shit.

Chance the Rapper was in charge?  I thought he was a Chitown guy?

I see what you did there hahahaha

tempo_n_groove

jeffbr said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jeffbr said:

Things are again getting interesting at CHOP. A few of the organized protester groups who were in CHOP have left. There are a couple of groups remaining, who say they won't leave. Established community activist leaders not associated with CHOP have spent the last couple of days at CHOP talking to their "leaders" and trying to get them to consolidate their space, and attempt to work with the city to find solutions, but that isn't really happening. The city now has crews on scene to take down barriers and clear out streets, so there's now a stand-off. The police have been barred from using tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper spray, so crowd dispersal options are limited. Unfortunately that probably means that the city council has forced the cops to fall back on batons and tasers now, so if they have to use force, it will be a little more brutal than pepper spraying (good ol' unintended consequences). Hopefully it won't come to a use of force to clear things, but the remaining CHOP residents don't seem to want to work with the system and they simply won't be allowed to stay there indefinitely at the expense of residents and businesses. Not sure how long the waiting game will be played before things are taken to the next level. 

Do you know if the people whom don't want to leave A) have jobs, live there, with an actual address within the 6 blocks, C) what do they expect to gain living on the grass long term?

I don't know, but I'm guessing: a)no, b) no, c) they have lists of demands - most of the groups overlap on a few including releasing those jailed during the riots, defunding the police, etc... But because of their incredibly disjointed and unorganized approach, they've been entirely ineffective working with the city. Instead, it is the activist groups outside of CHOP which have made the most progress.

TY.  I'd love for people to be able to get answers from them too.

jeffbr

oftenreading said:

jeffbr said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jeffbr said:

Things are again getting interesting at CHOP. A few of the organized protester groups who were in CHOP have left. There are a couple of groups remaining, who say they won't leave. Established community activist leaders not associated with CHOP have spent the last couple of days at CHOP talking to their "leaders" and trying to get them to consolidate their space, and attempt to work with the city to find solutions, but that isn't really happening. The city now has crews on scene to take down barriers and clear out streets, so there's now a stand-off. The police have been barred from using tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper spray, so crowd dispersal options are limited. Unfortunately that probably means that the city council has forced the cops to fall back on batons and tasers now, so if they have to use force, it will be a little more brutal than pepper spraying (good ol' unintended consequences). Hopefully it won't come to a use of force to clear things, but the remaining CHOP residents don't seem to want to work with the system and they simply won't be allowed to stay there indefinitely at the expense of residents and businesses. Not sure how long the waiting game will be played before things are taken to the next level. 

Do you know if the people whom don't want to leave A) have jobs, live there, with an actual address within the 6 blocks, C) what do they expect to gain living on the grass long term?

I don't know, but I'm guessing: a)no, b) no, c) they have lists of demands - most of the groups overlap on a few including releasing those jailed during the riots, defunding the police, etc... But because of their incredibly disjointed and unorganized approach, they've been entirely ineffective working with the city. Instead, it is the activist groups outside of CHOP which have made the most progress.

What progress have you seen being made, Jeff? 

It would be good to hear of some positives these days. 

I honestly think that their creation of CHAZ/CHOP led to acceleration of concessions from the city and the police regarding use of force and banning of some crowd dispersal tools. I also think that CHAZ created an environment where the city was more motivated to quickly work with the established community activist groups, and that some of those activist groups now have a place at the Mayor's table, and a louder more urgent voice than previously. Some groups had been working with the city for a while now, and the slow grinding of the gears hadn't led to a lot of tangible change until CHAZ created the boiling point and sense of urgency. So I do believe that while CHAZ itself wasn't effective in negotiations, messaging or solutions, they at least provided a catalyst for change - and that is a positive.

brianlux

Thanks for the updates, jeffbr !  Well done.

oftenreading

jeffbr said:

oftenreading said:

jeffbr said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jeffbr said:

Things are again getting interesting at CHOP. A few of the organized protester groups who were in CHOP have left. There are a couple of groups remaining, who say they won't leave. Established community activist leaders not associated with CHOP have spent the last couple of days at CHOP talking to their "leaders" and trying to get them to consolidate their space, and attempt to work with the city to find solutions, but that isn't really happening. The city now has crews on scene to take down barriers and clear out streets, so there's now a stand-off. The police have been barred from using tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper spray, so crowd dispersal options are limited. Unfortunately that probably means that the city council has forced the cops to fall back on batons and tasers now, so if they have to use force, it will be a little more brutal than pepper spraying (good ol' unintended consequences). Hopefully it won't come to a use of force to clear things, but the remaining CHOP residents don't seem to want to work with the system and they simply won't be allowed to stay there indefinitely at the expense of residents and businesses. Not sure how long the waiting game will be played before things are taken to the next level. 

Do you know if the people whom don't want to leave A) have jobs, live there, with an actual address within the 6 blocks, C) what do they expect to gain living on the grass long term?

I don't know, but I'm guessing: a)no, b) no, c) they have lists of demands - most of the groups overlap on a few including releasing those jailed during the riots, defunding the police, etc... But because of their incredibly disjointed and unorganized approach, they've been entirely ineffective working with the city. Instead, it is the activist groups outside of CHOP which have made the most progress.

What progress have you seen being made, Jeff? 

It would be good to hear of some positives these days. 

I honestly think that their creation of CHAZ/CHOP led to acceleration of concessions from the city and the police regarding use of force and banning of some crowd dispersal tools. I also think that CHAZ created an environment where the city was more motivated to quickly work with the established community activist groups, and that some of those activist groups now have a place at the Mayor's table, and a louder more urgent voice than previously. Some groups had been working with the city for a while now, and the slow grinding of the gears hadn't led to a lot of tangible change until CHAZ created the boiling point and sense of urgency. So I do believe that while CHAZ itself wasn't effective in negotiations, messaging or solutions, they at least provided a catalyst for change - and that is a positive.

Thank you. 

Positive change can come from many different avenues and approaches, even those that seem on their own to be dead ends. 

PJPOWER

More violence in the good ol’ “CHAZ”...what a mess...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/29/chop-chaz-shooting-seattle-police-free-zone

Ledbetterman10

PJPOWER said:

More violence in the good ol’ “CHAZ”...what a mess...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/29/chop-chaz-shooting-seattle-police-free-zone

Six shootings in the last ten days, and two dead. Thankfully, that's less than I expected there at CHOP, but still a shame to see a 16-year-old get killed. This stupid crap should be dying down soon though. Seems like a lot of people have cleared out. 

PJPOWER

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJPOWER said:

More violence in the good ol’ “CHAZ”...what a mess...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/29/chop-chaz-shooting-seattle-police-free-zone

Six shootings in the last ten days, and two dead. Thankfully, that's less than I expected there at CHOP, but still a shame to see a 16-year-old get killed. This stupid crap should be dying down soon though. Seems like a lot of people have cleared out. 

Sounds like the CHAZ “security” were the shooters here.  Wonder how long it will take for them to be arrested...what a shit show.

jeffbr

Shit show is right. Seattle crews have started removing the barriers and dismantling. Not sure how that is going to go, or how long it will take, but the city has lost its appetite for these guys. So have other, more established activist groups who find the CHAZ thing counter-productive.