George Floyd Protests

JB16057

cblock4life said:

JB16057 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

Thank you.

Agree.  Until we dismiss the color of people’s skin whenever we refer to jurors we will never move forward.  

Commissary turkey tomorrow!  

Racism needs to be called out even if it is "against your own race".

cblock4life

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

given the history of bias in the region it wasnt a foregone conclusion.

Justice isnt as blind as we like to think it is or should be. thats a fact.

Nothing's a forgone conclusion, but it's not a "miracle" like you say. It's such an obvious murder that there's no other verdict to reach. In fact, I can't believe the defendants even wanted it go to trial. Maybe they weren't offered a plea deal. Or, maybe they think like you, that their fellow white Georgians would let them off the hook. 

I haven’t followed this trial or the details that closely. But I thought there would be a good chance the guy in the second truck would get off. Wasn’t he claiming he was just documenting what was going on, he was even the one that took the video that helped lead to the trial and conviction.

It took him a few weeks (if I remember correctly) to turn it over and I believe it was to try and cover his ass once he knew what might happen to all 3 of them.  I think it backfired.  Now if he would have rendered aide, attempted to stop them and turned the video over immediately then he couldn’t have been blamed. Such a snitch coward…all three better ask for solitary confinement. I’d start by pulling their long dirty toe nails out one by one. 

mickeyrat

cblock4life said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

given the history of bias in the region it wasnt a foregone conclusion.

Justice isnt as blind as we like to think it is or should be. thats a fact.

Nothing's a forgone conclusion, but it's not a "miracle" like you say. It's such an obvious murder that there's no other verdict to reach. In fact, I can't believe the defendants even wanted it go to trial. Maybe they weren't offered a plea deal. Or, maybe they think like you, that their fellow white Georgians would let them off the hook. 

I haven’t followed this trial or the details that closely. But I thought there would be a good chance the guy in the second truck would get off. Wasn’t he claiming he was just documenting what was going on, he was even the one that took the video that helped lead to the trial and conviction.

It took him a few weeks (if I remember correctly) to turn it over and I believe it was to try and cover his ass once he knew what might happen to all 3 of them.  I think it backfired.  Now if he would have rendered aide, attempted to stop them and turned the video over immediately then he couldn’t have been blamed. Such a snitch coward…all three better ask for solitary confinement. I’d start by pulling their long dirty toe nails out one by one. 

he also chased aurbrey with his truck. essentially  driving him into his killer.

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

It wasn’t a miracle that was plain as day justice.

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

A case where were it not for the video being leaked, the defendants might not have ever been charged. Add in a DA spoke with one of the defendants and directed them to destroy evidence and is now being charged with obstruction of justice. Never mind the police barely conducted an investigation and didn’t file any charges when it happened.

Yea, race had nothing to do with justice being served. FFS.

So the DA got nailed for destroying evidence too?  Home run.

Race in the jury is not where the problem lies then…

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

A case where were it not for the video being leaked, the defendants might not have ever been charged. Add in a DA spoke with one of the defendants and directed them to destroy evidence and is now being charged with obstruction of justice. Never mind the police barely conducted an investigation and didn’t file any charges when it happened.

Yea, race had nothing to do with justice being served. FFS.

So the DA got nailed for destroying evidence too?  Home run.


Race in the jury is not where the problem lies then…

Maybe tell that to the guy who was released from prison after 46 years. It’s a societal problem and juries are made up from society, as are the cops, prosecutors, judges, etc.

That a black man can be chased down and murdered in cold blood and but for a video tape being leaked and the family pressing for justice for 7 months, the perps might have gotten away with it. In 21st century ‘Murica. And people wonder about why there are riots?

To the bold, problem solved then? Good to know.

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

A case where were it not for the video being leaked, the defendants might not have ever been charged. Add in a DA spoke with one of the defendants and directed them to destroy evidence and is now being charged with obstruction of justice. Never mind the police barely conducted an investigation and didn’t file any charges when it happened.

Yea, race had nothing to do with justice being served. FFS.

So the DA got nailed for destroying evidence too?  Home run.


Race in the jury is not where the problem lies then…

Maybe tell that to the guy who was released from prison after 46 years. It’s a societal problem and juries are made up from society, as are the cops, prosecutors, judges, etc.

That a black man can be chased down and murdered in cold blood and but for a video tape being leaked and the family pressing for justice for 7 months, the perps might have gotten away with it. In 21st century ‘Murica. And people wonder about why there are riots?

To the bold, problem solved then? Good to know.

If racism was blatant w the jury then they would have said the citizens arrest was justifiable.  They didn't.

Gern Blansten

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

given the history of bias in the region it wasnt a foregone conclusion.

Justice isnt as blind as we like to think it is or should be. thats a fact.

Nothing's a forgone conclusion, but it's not a "miracle" like you say. It's such an obvious murder that there's no other verdict to reach. In fact, I can't believe the defendants even wanted it go to trial. Maybe they weren't offered a plea deal. Or, maybe they think like you, that their fellow white Georgians would let them off the hook. 

Yeah I think they thought the video would be interpreted as a self defense move. Unlike the Rittenhouse case since the gunman pursued the victim rather than vice/versa.

cblock4life

cblock4life said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

given the history of bias in the region it wasnt a foregone conclusion.

Justice isnt as blind as we like to think it is or should be. thats a fact.

Nothing's a forgone conclusion, but it's not a "miracle" like you say. It's such an obvious murder that there's no other verdict to reach. In fact, I can't believe the defendants even wanted it go to trial. Maybe they weren't offered a plea deal. Or, maybe they think like you, that their fellow white Georgians would let them off the hook. 

I haven’t followed this trial or the details that closely. But I thought there would be a good chance the guy in the second truck would get off. Wasn’t he claiming he was just documenting what was going on, he was even the one that took the video that helped lead to the trial and conviction.

It took him a few weeks (if I remember correctly) to turn it over and I believe it was to try and cover his ass once he knew what might happen to all 3 of them.  I think it backfired.  Now if he would have rendered aide, attempted to stop them and turned the video over immediately then he couldn’t have been blamed. Such a snitch coward…all three better ask for solitary confinement. I’d start by pulling their long dirty toe nails out one by one. 

I was incorrect.  The video was turned over immediately but the police waited to release.  Why am I surprised. 

Is anything the truth anymore? 

Parksy

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

given the history of bias in the region it wasnt a foregone conclusion.

Justice isnt as blind as we like to think it is or should be. thats a fact.

Nothing's a forgone conclusion, but it's not a "miracle" like you say. It's such an obvious murder that there's no other verdict to reach. In fact, I can't believe the defendants even wanted it go to trial. Maybe they weren't offered a plea deal. Or, maybe they think like you, that their fellow white Georgians would let them off the hook. 

In school I learned that 99% of murder charges are pled not guilty. It's almost automatic.  I'm not entirely sure why... but my best guess is that defendants are hoping for technicalities, mistrials, shitty juries, etc. 

Parksy

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

given the history of bias in the region it wasnt a foregone conclusion.

Justice isnt as blind as we like to think it is or should be. thats a fact.

Nothing's a forgone conclusion, but it's not a "miracle" like you say. It's such an obvious murder that there's no other verdict to reach. In fact, I can't believe the defendants even wanted it go to trial. Maybe they weren't offered a plea deal. Or, maybe they think like you, that their fellow white Georgians would let them off the hook. 

I haven’t followed this trial or the details that closely. But I thought there would be a good chance the guy in the second truck would get off. Wasn’t he claiming he was just documenting what was going on, he was even the one that took the video that helped lead to the trial and conviction.

The prosecution talked about this in their closing arguments. They argued that his assistance after the fact did not absolve him of guilt during the act... which I 100% agree. 

mickeyrat

Parksy said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

in Georgia no less with 11 white people on the jury.

will miracles never cease....

Guilty is guilty. The color of the jurors, defendants, or victim doesn’t matter. 

given the history of bias in the region it wasnt a foregone conclusion.

Justice isnt as blind as we like to think it is or should be. thats a fact.

Nothing's a forgone conclusion, but it's not a "miracle" like you say. It's such an obvious murder that there's no other verdict to reach. In fact, I can't believe the defendants even wanted it go to trial. Maybe they weren't offered a plea deal. Or, maybe they think like you, that their fellow white Georgians would let them off the hook. 

I haven’t followed this trial or the details that closely. But I thought there would be a good chance the guy in the second truck would get off. Wasn’t he claiming he was just documenting what was going on, he was even the one that took the video that helped lead to the trial and conviction.

The prosecution talked about this in their closing arguments. They argued that his assistance after the fact did not absolve him of guilt during the act... which I 100% agree. 

I believe testimony showed he helped chase and essentially  corral Aubry towards the shooter.

Parksy

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

A case where were it not for the video being leaked, the defendants might not have ever been charged. Add in a DA spoke with one of the defendants and directed them to destroy evidence and is now being charged with obstruction of justice. Never mind the police barely conducted an investigation and didn’t file any charges when it happened.

Yea, race had nothing to do with justice being served. FFS.

So the DA got nailed for destroying evidence too?  Home run.


Race in the jury is not where the problem lies then…

Maybe tell that to the guy who was released from prison after 46 years. It’s a societal problem and juries are made up from society, as are the cops, prosecutors, judges, etc.

That a black man can be chased down and murdered in cold blood and but for a video tape being leaked and the family pressing for justice for 7 months, the perps might have gotten away with it. In 21st century ‘Murica. And people wonder about why there are riots?

To the bold, problem solved then? Good to know.

If racism was blatant w the jury then they would have said the citizens arrest was justifiable.  They didn't.

To give this discussion a bit of easy flavour...   if you've ever seen the film A Time to Kill...  the closing argument of the defence (powerful scene) is actually quite relatable now a days.  

I equate what Halifax is saying against what you're (Tempo) saying to this: 

When faced with a remarkable amount of evidence and pressure, yes a mostly white jury convicted white men.  It's my opinion and I think Halifax's opinion that if the victim were white, and the crooks black, the threshold for evidence would be lower, the need for pressure would be non-existent, and........   and this one is both personal opinion and I believe a shared feeling amongst a lot of people.. this discussion wouldn't even be happening. 

I found myself wondering what the verdict would be with this case and with the George Floyd case.  And what strikes me about that... is if the colour of the victim was different, I wouldn't.  Like if a black cop pressed his knee on a white dude for 9 minutes and killed him, there would be no question on the outcome.  If three black dudes chased down a white guy exercising in a neighbourhood, pulled  a shotgun on him and killed him... there would be no question.  Because of racism, which exists, it's a legit question, and that's pretty sad. And as someone said in this thread... and as the lawyer said in A Time to Kill... the eyes of justice are not blind because the eyes of justice are human eyes. 

No disrespect meant towards anyone. 

Halifax2TheMax

Does anyone believe for an instant that the three defendants would have been found guilty, let alone brought to trial, but for the video tape? It very well could have been three white guys’ word, one a former employee of the DA’s office, against a dead black guy’s. Please.

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

Does anyone believe for an instant that the three defendants would have been found guilty, let alone brought to trial, but for the video tape? It very well could have been three white guys’ word, one a former employee of the DA’s office, against a dead black guy’s. Please.

Probably not,  but what evidence would there be for murder, meeting the legal standard?  I didn't follow the case closely but was there evidence to convict other than the footage?

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Does anyone believe for an instant that the three defendants would have been found guilty, let alone brought to trial, but for the video tape? It very well could have been three white guys’ word, one a former employee of the DA’s office, against a dead black guy’s. Please.

Probably not,  but what evidence would there be for murder, meeting the legal standard?  I didn't follow the case closely but was there evidence to convict other than the footage?

Not to my knowledge as it was a “self-defense” claim. The police didn’t arrest the suspects, render aid or conduct more than a cursory investigation. Seems like they took the “good ol’ boys’” word for it as to what had occurred. Put that before a jury without video evidence and they walk.

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

Does anyone believe for an instant that the three defendants would have been found guilty, let alone brought to trial, but for the video tape? It very well could have been three white guys’ word, one a former employee of the DA’s office, against a dead black guy’s. Please.

Very doubtful.  In fact, highly doubtful. 

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Does anyone believe for an instant that the three defendants would have been found guilty, let alone brought to trial, but for the video tape? It very well could have been three white guys’ word, one a former employee of the DA’s office, against a dead black guy’s. Please.

Probably not,  but what evidence would there be for murder, meeting the legal standard?  I didn't follow the case closely but was there evidence to convict other than the footage?

Not to my knowledge as it was a “self-defense” claim. The police didn’t arrest the suspects, render aid or conduct more than a cursory investigation. Seems like they took the “good ol’ boys’” word for it as to what had occurred. Put that before a jury without video evidence and they walk.

Yeah they were definitely close to getting away with it.  Was there some sort of public outcry that led to a deeper investigation? 

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Does anyone believe for an instant that the three defendants would have been found guilty, let alone brought to trial, but for the video tape? It very well could have been three white guys’ word, one a former employee of the DA’s office, against a dead black guy’s. Please.

Probably not,  but what evidence would there be for murder, meeting the legal standard?  I didn't follow the case closely but was there evidence to convict other than the footage?

Not to my knowledge as it was a “self-defense” claim. The police didn’t arrest the suspects, render aid or conduct more than a cursory investigation. Seems like they took the “good ol’ boys’” word for it as to what had occurred. Put that before a jury without video evidence and they walk.

Yeah they were definitely close to getting away with it.  Was there some sort of public outcry that led to a deeper investigation? 

yes, the dumbfuck dad released the video to a radio stations social media.

within days GBI took over the case and made arrests.

but all along the family was crying foul....

mickeyrat

mickeyrat said:

 

Ahmaud Arbery Brunswick Georgia Crime Race and ethnicity

Man who helped pursue Ahmaud Arbery convicted of murder

By RUSS BYNUM

Just now

BRUNSWICK, Ga. (AP) — Greg McMichael, the man who pursued Ahmaud Arbery with his son, has been convicted of murder.

The conviction carries a minimum sentence of life in prison. It is up to the judge to decide whether that comes with or without the possibility of parole.

McMichael and his son, Travis McMichael, grabbed guns and jumped in a pickup truck to pursue the 25-year-old Black man after seeing him running in their neighborhood outside the Georgia port city of Brunswick in February 2020. Their neighbor William “Roddie” Bryan joined the pursuit in his own pickup and recorded cellphone video of Travis McMichael fatally shooting Arbery.

Arbery’s killing became part of a larger national reckoning on racial injustice after the graphic video leaked online two months later. All three men are white. Though prosecutors did not argue that racism motivated the killing, federal authorities have charged them with hate crimes, alleging that they chased and killed Arbery because he was Black. That case is scheduled to go to trial in February.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. AP’s earlier story follows below.

BRUNSWICK, Ga. (AP) — Jury deliberations resumed for a second day Wednesday in the trial of the three white men charged with chasing and killing Ahmaud Arbery, with jurors reviewing the cellphone video of the 25-year-old Black man being blasted with a shotgun on a residential street in coastal Georgia.

The jury sent a note to Superior Court Judge Timothy Walmsley soon after returning to court Wednesday morning asking to view two versions of the shooting video — the original and one that investigators enhanced to reduce shadows — three times apiece.

The jury returned to the courtroom to see the videos and listen again the 911 call one of the defendants made from the bed of a pickup truck about 30 seconds before the shooting.

The disproportionately white jury is weighing charges of murder and other crimes against father and son Greg and Travis McMichael and their neighbor William “Roddie” Bryan. It received the case around midday Tuesday and spent about six hours deliberating before adjourning without a verdict.

The McMichaels told police they suspected Arbery was a fleeing burglar when they armed themselves and jumped in a pickup truck to chase him on Feb. 23, 2020. Bryan joined the pursuit when they passed his house and recorded cellphone video of Travis McMichael blasting Arbery at close range with a shotgun as Arbery threw punches and grabbed for the weapon.

On the 911 call the jury reviewed, Greg McMichael tells an operator: “I’m out here in Satilla Shores. There's a Black male running down the street.”

He then starts shouting, apparently as Arbery is running toward the McMichael's idling truck with Bryan's truck coming up behind him: “Stop right there! Damn it, stop! Travis!” Gunshots can be heard a few second later.

Arbery’s killing became part of a larger national reckoning on racial injustice after the graphic video of his death leaked online two months later and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation took over the case, quickly arresting the three men. Each of them is charged with murder and other crimes.

Defense attorneys contend the McMichaels were attempting a legal citizen’s arrest when they set off after Arbery, seeking to detain and question him as a suspected burglar after he was seen running from a nearby home under construction.

---

MORE ON ARBERY TRIAL

Man who fatally shot Ahmaud Arbery convicted of murder

In his final days, Ahmaud Arbery's life was at a crossroads

Jury gets case of white men charged in Ahmaud Arbery's death

EXPLAINER: What instructions did jury get in Arbery death?

Travis McMichael testified that he shot Arbery in self-defense, saying the running man turned and attacked with his fists while running past the idling truck where Travis McMichael stood with his shotgun.

Prosecutors said there was no evidence Arbery had committed crimes in the defendants’ neighborhood. He had enrolled at a technical college and was preparing at the time to study to become an electrician like his uncles.

@mrussel1