White Privilege

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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    Well white privilege is apparently attempting a violent coup at the us capitol and getting treated with kids gloves 
    A lady was shot and killed, from what I saw looked like the police. How is that white privilege or kids gloves?
    I think today was terrible. No one should storm a capitol building like that. I hope they are all caught. But I keep hearing and seeing comments like this, or comparing it to BLM and talk about the white privilege and I just don’t agree. BLM lasted for months, were allowed to take over police precincts in some cases. We’re allowed to assault police in many cases. The few times t be y were prosecuted the DA was fired and celebrities posted the bail. 
    This just seems more like a lesson in Newton’s Third Law than white privilege.
    one shooting. come on. look at the rest of how it went down. had that been muslims or black people? mass casualties. guaranteed. 
    Really? Did you forget the BLM protests attacking police and they were ordered to stand down? Come on. If these were black people they would not have been shot. We proved that this summer. I don’t get all these posts on social media saying they’d all be dead if they weren’t white. Did everyone already forget burning down police preforms, throwing bricks and police etc this summer?
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    edited January 2021
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    mace1229 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    Well white privilege is apparently attempting a violent coup at the us capitol and getting treated with kids gloves 
    A lady was shot and killed, from what I saw looked like the police. How is that white privilege or kids gloves?
    I think today was terrible. No one should storm a capitol building like that. I hope they are all caught. But I keep hearing and seeing comments like this, or comparing it to BLM and talk about the white privilege and I just don’t agree. BLM lasted for months, were allowed to take over police precincts in some cases. We’re allowed to assault police in many cases. The few times t be y were prosecuted the DA was fired and celebrities posted the bail. 
    This just seems more like a lesson in Newton’s Third Law than white privilege.
    one shooting. come on. look at the rest of how it went down. had that been muslims or black people? mass casualties. guaranteed. 
    Really? Did you forget the BLM protests attacking police and they were ordered to stand down? Come on. If these were black people they would not have been shot. We proved that this summer. I don’t get all these posts on social media saying they’d all be dead if they weren’t white. Did everyone already forget burning down police preforms, throwing bricks and police etc this summer?
    watch the footage of today vs footage of george floyd protests. THERE. IS. NO. COMPARISON. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,798
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,994
    Some people are proud today.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,798
    Sure are.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,655
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mace1229 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    Well white privilege is apparently attempting a violent coup at the us capitol and getting treated with kids gloves 
    A lady was shot and killed, from what I saw looked like the police. How is that white privilege or kids gloves?
    I think today was terrible. No one should storm a capitol building like that. I hope they are all caught. But I keep hearing and seeing comments like this, or comparing it to BLM and talk about the white privilege and I just don’t agree. BLM lasted for months, were allowed to take over police precincts in some cases. We’re allowed to assault police in many cases. The few times t be y were prosecuted the DA was fired and celebrities posted the bail. 
    This just seems more like a lesson in Newton’s Third Law than white privilege.
    one shooting. come on. look at the rest of how it went down. had that been muslims or black people? mass casualties. guaranteed. 
    Really? Did you forget the BLM protests attacking police and they were ordered to stand down? Come on. If these were black people they would not have been shot. We proved that this summer. I don’t get all these posts on social media saying they’d all be dead if they weren’t white. Did everyone already forget burning down police preforms, throwing bricks and police etc this summer?
    watch the footage of today vs footage of george floyd protests. THERE. IS. NO. COMPARISON. 
    This...
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    ...and this.

    These radical right wing insurgents got off easy.  They were able to breach "security" around the nations Capitol.  That's a bit shocking.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    NBA players got it correct “epitome of white privilege”. 
    And those of you with relatives in the police force are scrambling today to explain away what the rest of us see clearly.
    SorryMace1229, you’re wrong and this is so far past your excuses of hypotheticals. 
    If it wasn’t so sad the lack of response from the police would be comical in comparison. 
    White privilege is alive and well.
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,753
    edited January 2021
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    Nailed it.
    Post edited by Merkin Baller on
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    I really wish we could focus.  Certainly there should be a time to discuss the security plan and reasons.  Then compare to other security plans.

    Can we focus on the treasonous traitors including the president of the united states of america right now though?  Gotta be more important today no?  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,059
    cincybearcat said:
    I really wish we could focus.  Certainly there should be a time to discuss the security plan and reasons.  Then compare to other security plans.

    Can we focus on the treasonous traitors including the president of the united states of america right now though?  Gotta be more important today no?  
    I mean it all did happen because white people are scared of living in an equitable society.  The events of yesterday were the direct result of white privilege. 
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,753
    edited January 2021
    cincybearcat said:
    I really wish we could focus.  Certainly there should be a time to discuss the security plan and reasons.  Then compare to other security plans.

    Can we focus on the treasonous traitors including the president of the united states of america right now though?  Gotta be more important today no?  
    I think yesterday's events definitely apply to this thread. 
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,798
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I really wish we could focus.  Certainly there should be a time to discuss the security plan and reasons.  Then compare to other security plans.

    Can we focus on the treasonous traitors including the president of the united states of america right now though?  Gotta be more important today no?  
    I think yesterday's events definitely apply to this thread. 

    100%.  People not seeing that means we still are not agreeing on the problem noted in this thread. 

    First, our President didn't tell the protestors this year that he loved them.  He called them "thugs" -- which, when used by Trump we know is a code word for N.
    Second....out of 300.  Just...this:


    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,321
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    What made it worse isn't the scale of what happened, it was the intent. The BLM protestors were acting out against racist events. The rioters yesterday deliberately disrupted the operation of an in session Congress with the goal of stopping their Constitutional mandated certifying of election results. They took it upon themselves to illegally attempt to force with violence, the abandonment of the sworn duty of the Congressmen and women.   
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,753
    What happened yesterday was literal sedition incited by the lame duck POTUS. 

    This isn't complicated, and no, it doesn't compare to anything that happened in 2020 no matter how much you want it to. 

    Wake the f up. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    edited January 2021
    JeBurkhardt said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    What made it worse isn't the scale of what happened, it was the intent. The BLM protestors were acting out against racist events. The rioters yesterday deliberately disrupted the operation of an in session Congress with the goal of stopping their Constitutional mandated certifying of election results. They took it upon themselves to illegally attempt to force with violence, the abandonment of the sworn duty of the Congressmen and women.   
    Thanks for an actual response instead of just name calling to disagree. But for me intent and side doesn’t matter when you beat and kill innocent people and burn down city blocks. Once you cross that line it doesn’t matter what your cause is to me.

    This thread just reinforces the mentality of “it’s okay to riot, destroy and kill if I agree with you. But if I don’t, you better shut up.”

    it is pathetic how Trump handled this. I never said otherwise.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,798
    Merkin Baller said:
    What happened yesterday was literal sedition incited by the lame duck POTUS. 

    This isn't complicated, and no, it doesn't compare to anything that happened in 2020 no matter how much you want it to. 

    Wake the f up. 

    This.  It shows how much people cannot even begin to understand the issue.  Even on the silly message forum of a decidedly liberal rock band.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved

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