White Privilege
Comments
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mace1229 said:
Ahh, so the thinking is that tweet and message was put out by white people wanting you to think the riots and protestors are worse than they are?brianlux said:mace1229 said:
I don’t get what this has to do with my comment. Anyone with that mentality is just as bad as what they are protesting about. Doesn’t matter if they are part of a group or not. And while I agree most don’t appear to be rioting, but I still see a lot promoting violence against whites and cops, and the destruction of private property. That tweet may not have been from an official organization, but I don’t doubt whoever sent it meant it.gimmesometruth27 said:
have you ever protested anything before? ever organized anything?mace1229 said:
I don’t care if it’s officially BLM, antifa or not. Any protestors with this mentality are no better than what they are pretending to protest. Targeting groups based on color....isn’t there a word for that?bbiggs said:
Here it is...tempo_n_groove said:So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.
you do not spell it out in stupid explicit detail on the internet or post threats to scare white people. that invites guns and police and angry white people.
I agree that the destruction is harmful to the cause and promoting violence against cops- black or white- is wrong but remember, most protesters are not about that. Most of them are outraged by the racism and discrimination that exists in some sectors of persons within law enforcement and are out there trying to get the message across. White supremacists want you to think there are massive numbers of these haters out there. Much of the media wants to show you the violent sideshow of the protests because sensationalism sells. The true protests are essential and right on. Don't get sucked in by those who sabotage the message.
That could be the case, but I still have no doubt that some percentage of protestors feel the way that tweet was written.
Well yeah, some percentage of the people mingling with the peaceful protesters are destructive haters. A small percentage are radical haters, yeah. But surely that is not the majority. I'm not focused on the small percentage of people causing damage and doing harm. I'm focused on the large majority who are speaking out against racism and injustice. They are the ones I stand with.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
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No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.0 -
America has never looked great in my lifetime. Can’t wait to leave it. I’ll sure as hell never love it.hedonist said:
No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
I love it for what my immigrant parents were afforded, and passed on to me (not materially). I hear you though, DK.dankind said:
America has never looked great in my lifetime. Can’t wait to leave it. I’ll sure as hell never love it.hedonist said:
No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.0 -
Why haven’t you left? Saving up?dankind said:
America has never looked great in my lifetime. Can’t wait to leave it. I’ll sure as hell never love it.hedonist said:
No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.
hippiemom = goodness0 -
bbiggs said:
Here it is...tempo_n_groove said:So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.mace1229 said:I don’t care if it’s officially BLM, antifa or not. Any protestors with this mentality are no better than what they are pretending to protest. Targeting groups based on color....isn’t there a word for that?False flag from a white nationalist group. Thanks for the hot take though.
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG0 -
How does that change what I said? I said I don’t care if it’s them or not. Some, not all or even most, but some protestors are openly saying the same thing while marching. You haven’t heard chants of “kill white people” or “kill cops”? Even some on this forum were openly promoting to physically beat random cops.Mike D88 said:bbiggs said:
Here it is...tempo_n_groove said:So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.mace1229 said:I don’t care if it’s officially BLM, antifa or not. Any protestors with this mentality are no better than what they are pretending to protest. Targeting groups based on color....isn’t there a word for that?False flag from a white nationalist group. Thanks for the hot take though.
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
Again, not most, but it’s out there. And those people are just as bad as what they are protesting.0 -
Have there been any actual confirmed reports of chants during any of these protests/riots to "kill white people" or "kill cops"? I haven't seen or heard that.mace1229 said:
How does that change what I said? I said I don’t care if it’s them or not. Some, not all or even most, but some protestors are openly saying the same thing while marching. You haven’t heard chants of “kill white people” or “kill cops”? Even some on this forum were openly promoting to physically beat random cops.Mike D88 said:bbiggs said:
Here it is...tempo_n_groove said:So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.mace1229 said:I don’t care if it’s officially BLM, antifa or not. Any protestors with this mentality are no better than what they are pretending to protest. Targeting groups based on color....isn’t there a word for that?False flag from a white nationalist group. Thanks for the hot take though.
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
Again, not most, but it’s out there. And those people are just as bad as what they are protesting.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
"Violence is bad, do you agree?"
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG0 -
I saw it on live TV being played out. Can’t remember which channel as I’ve switched from Fox, CNN and MSNBC. But yeah, on live TV a group was chanting “kill white people” while holding a sign that read the same. Wasn’t discussed by the anchor when it happened and haven’t heard anyone discuss it since. But it happened. And I’ve seen many examples of people promoting violence against cops.tbergs said:
Have there been any actual confirmed reports of chants during any of these protests/riots to "kill white people" or "kill cops"? I haven't seen or heard that.mace1229 said:
How does that change what I said? I said I don’t care if it’s them or not. Some, not all or even most, but some protestors are openly saying the same thing while marching. You haven’t heard chants of “kill white people” or “kill cops”? Even some on this forum were openly promoting to physically beat random cops.Mike D88 said:bbiggs said:
Here it is...tempo_n_groove said:So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.mace1229 said:I don’t care if it’s officially BLM, antifa or not. Any protestors with this mentality are no better than what they are pretending to protest. Targeting groups based on color....isn’t there a word for that?False flag from a white nationalist group. Thanks for the hot take though.
A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
Again, not most, but it’s out there. And those people are just as bad as what they are protesting.
And I’ll say again, I know it’s not the majority.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
For the most part... it seems to peaceful protesting for most of the day.. then as the day gets later and evening approaches, instigators join in and start rioting/looting. Under the cover of peaceful protesters. Making it hard for the government to enforce because the looters/rioters are mixed in with legit protesters.I suppose that's why they're trying to start curfews. Try to get the peaceful protesters to go home, so that they aren't caught in the mix with the shit disturbers.0
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Zod said:For the most part... it seems to peaceful protesting for most of the day.. then as the day gets later and evening approaches, instigators join in and start rioting/looting. Under the cover of peaceful protesters. Making it hard for the government to enforce because the looters/rioters are mixed in with legit protesters.I suppose that's why they're trying to start curfews. Try to get the peaceful protesters to go home, so that they aren't caught in the mix with the shit disturbers.Yeah, protest hackers are making it hard for legit protester to make a positive difference.Along with protesting/ peaceful civil disobedience comes the hard work of making change happen through community programs, awareness education, deprogramming children taught to be haters and racists, and electing better, more qualified officials and representative, starting at the top where the most festering and fetid sore resides.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Did you ever consider that instead of saying, "it's terrible that black people are getting killed by police brutality, but this rioting needs to end" the world would be better off if more people said "it's terrible that people are rioting, but black people getting killed by police brutality needs to end"?hedonist said:
No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Thank you for posting. Probably the most honest post yet. And good for you for having the courage to walk away and serving and protecting your community it a positive way.tbergs said:
@mcgruff10 Yes, I am. I grew up in rural MN, but have lived and worked in the MPLS/St. Paul metro area for most of the last 20+ years. I mentioned in another thread after this happened that I briefly lived in the area where Floyd died and know many people from around that area.mcgruff10 said:@tbergs I am almost positive you are from Minnesota. Question, is Minneapolis pretty racist or is this a isolated incident? Were you surprised this happened?
In relation to this incident, I have been trying to refrain from offering my candid opinion in most settings because it would mean openly mentioning my background of law enforcement and what I know existed at least 10 years ago when I was still knee deep in everything LE (and we know how mentioning our professions goes around here sometimes). I don't know that I can explain it very well. I stepped away from that role and work for a college campus now as the director of public safety which is leaps and bounds different than the chaos a police officer on the city streets has to deal with on a daily basis.
I think there is a very fine line and even the best officers have their moments because they are flawed humans. Most of the bias exists in the 15+ year veterans from my experience, but the bias often expands far beyond race. It is a disdain for those who choose to harm themselves and others, whether it be assault, theft, substance abuse or one of the many other vices that plague the entire world. There is no excuse for intentional violence or abuse of power against anyone when you choose to wear the badge, but I think some lose that rose colored tint after being exposed to the same situations and people day in and day out. The same justice system you see fail minorities, fails police as well. That slam dunk domestic assault where they had to pull the suspect off the victim ends up getting pled down to a misdemeanor with probation. Or the stabbing in the alley of a bar where the suspect is screaming about murdering their ex as they're being taken in to custody seems like a no-brainer to be at least a 2nd degree assault with a deadly weapon ends up being a disorderly conduct and 5th degree assault. Cops lose that feeling and sense of "I" can make a difference the longer they see the same result and cycle continue. When this attitude and race intersect, it's a recipe for disaster, even if it did not have to do with race it can never not be about race. The present doesn't yet allow us to move beyond the past race inequities because we have not taken the necessary steps to ensure the future will be any different.
I worked with officers who were great people and didn't have any racial prejudice, but they did have a bit of an attitude (which is another stigma of LE that I think is getting better) that made them feel the need to make sure they were in control. It wasn't a situation where any policy or human rights violation was being committed, but it was a lesser standard of patience and due care. Maybe instead of gently assisting someone off the ground in cuffs, it was a tug and a jerk because they just had to wrestle with the person for 5 minutes to get them cuffed. No blatant hitting, kicking or physical abuse, but a less courteous approach.
When it comes to Minneapolis specifically, I can only speak from what I know or saw personally through friends or colleagues who worked for that department because I did not work for them. I can tell you that it was one of the few departments in the state that I absolutely did not want to work for because there was a reputation I was not interested in being a part of. I think things have change a little, but the "joke" has always been that St. Paul was the clean and friendly PD to work for, but once you crossed the river beware. St. Paul has since had many of their own issues, but for the most part has maintained a better reputation.
When I was an intern in college, the agency I worked for did a search warrant on the residence of a drug dealer/gang member. This was a white male who lived in the basement of his parent's house. It was, to say lightly, a shit hole. This guy literally had a piss and shit bucket in the corner of the basement about 20 feet from their bed. During the search there was an MPD officer who I had come to know as a bit more aggressive in his attitude and approach that decided he'd had enough and just trashed the place worse than it needed to be. Searches of people's homes are usually disrupting enough and the goal is to try and leave it as much like you found it as possible, but that was not what he did. That along with the other things I'd heard about MPD told me all I needed to know about the type of officers that I would be working with if I chose to work there. Of course, not all MPD officers were or are that way, but it's also easy for small behaviors and attitudes to go unchecked which can lead to an overly toxic environment where even new officers can be unknowingly trained to respond the same way.
What I was most surprised about in the Floyd death is that MPD actually has a policy in place yet that allows for a knee to the back of the neck to be administered in any situation. I know it is a somewhat rare policy and is only allowed by officers specifically trained to administer it, but it reminds me a lot of the "sleeper hold" restraint that was discontinued years ago. I was originally trained on how to administer that, but most departments had policies in place that didn't allow it because it was so dangerous and if not done correctly could cause death. While a knee to the back of the neck generally isn't something that can restrict breathing or obstruct an airway, it just doesn't seem like a restraint method steeped in a lot of actual purpose and just looks bad. Generally placing a knee directly between the shoulder blades will be sufficient so I don't understand why a department, especially one that has had its share of excessive force issues, would not remove it as an accepted form of restraint.
Take it for what it's worth, but I think what I see in Mpls. is what you will find in any major metro area all over the country. There's a disparate amount of racial inequity, which leads to more frequent contact with police and in turn more situations where excessive force is being used. I don't have any answers. This incident has baffled me because it seems so apparent that the officers should have assessed the situation long before Floyd stopped breathing. Sure, people lie to the police and exaggerate the trauma or pain they are under all the time, but never have I seen someone be disregarded for so long. I can't imagine being one of the officers and not doing a physical assessment at any point, especially after he became motionless. At that point you know you're restraining a limp body. Figure it the fuck out and be a person.
Too many cops are trained to enforce the letter of the law and I think that is to their detriment because there are many situations where circumstances dictate that it's not in the best interest of public safety or even makes sense. Off the top of my head, I think of the recent arrest of the CNN team and then the next day a local news station photographer. That's where I can only assume that those cops were told "clear everyone out and arrest anyone who doesn't leave" so they did exactly that. Good cops need to be able to apply rational thought, but I think this is where training and education need to be improved and expanded. We need veteran training officers who have these abilities and knowledge and can instill it in younger officers. There will still be mistakes, but hopefully they will be fewer and far between.
I don't know. I just rambled on for a few paragraphs and I'm not sure any of it makes sense.0 -
I think I've seen this about 100 times over the last couple of days. It is a good point.rgambs said:
Did you ever consider that instead of saying, "it's terrible that black people are getting killed by police brutality, but this rioting needs to end" the world would be better off if more people said "it's terrible that people are rioting, but black people getting killed by police brutality needs to end"?hedonist said:
No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.
hippiemom = goodness0 -
I just saw it today and I love it. It really fits the vast majority of people's reactions.cincybearcat said:
I think I've seen this about 100 times over the last couple of days. It is a good point.rgambs said:
Did you ever consider that instead of saying, "it's terrible that black people are getting killed by police brutality, but this rioting needs to end" the world would be better off if more people said "it's terrible that people are rioting, but black people getting killed by police brutality needs to end"?hedonist said:
No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
It's actually not. It was from Antifa_US tweet. They got suspended after this. Now whether or not it is associated w Antifa NYC or what not I am not sure but it was up for all the world to see.gimmesometruth27 said:
i don't buy this tweet for one second. i live 5 miles from ferguson. black lives matter is way smarter than this. this is some dumb boogaloo moron trying to instigate.bbiggs said:
Here it is...tempo_n_groove said:So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.
EDIT: Nevermind. I saw the article about the White Nationals doing the tweet.Post edited by tempo_n_groove on0 -
This is a great way of explaining things to people. Really shows the power of framing.rgambs said:
Did you ever consider that instead of saying, "it's terrible that black people are getting killed by police brutality, but this rioting needs to end" the world would be better off if more people said "it's terrible that people are rioting, but black people getting killed by police brutality needs to end"?hedonist said:
No, it’s not. Setting fires to random businesses is the way to go!g under p said:
Also a perfect storm of the COVID19 virus, economy shutdown then millions suddenly unemployed and guess one could add being cooped up for weeks. America is NOT looking great right now.hedonist said:I saw many races setting fires and stealing shit here the last couple days and nights. This isn’t necessarily a white supremacist thing, to me it’s mostly about opportunism and a complete lack of conscience.
Peace
Obviously I support the protests themselves (does it even need to be said at this point?) but the damage caused (and people injured) in the process is over the top and fucked up.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
You helped spread misinformation for white nationalists, please consider that.tempo_n_groove said:
It's actually not. It was from Antifa_US tweet. They got suspended after this. Now whether or not it is associated w Antifa NYC or what not I am not sure but it was up for all the world to see.gimmesometruth27 said:
i don't buy this tweet for one second. i live 5 miles from ferguson. black lives matter is way smarter than this. this is some dumb boogaloo moron trying to instigate.bbiggs said:
Here it is...tempo_n_groove said:So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.
EDIT: Nevermind. I saw the article about the White Nationals doing the tweet.0
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