This can't go ON!

static111

Zod said:

Spartanacus said:

I guess they could decide to go straight 'Survival of the Fittest' and move forward with an approach to let the weak, old, and sick die...but it would be a surprise.  

As bad as that sounds, that is how nature was intended to work, and that is how it works best.  And because humans think we're so damn special, eventually we are going to destroy this planet to the point where nobody will survive unless we colonize Mars.  So yes, at least a modified version of 'survival of the fittest' plan needs to go on.  This virus is not indiscriminately killing everyone it touches.  The overwhelming majority are the old, sick, and unfortunately the compromised (with a very small % of seemingly healthy young people).  If this continues into the Summer, Fall, etc. we'll all be in a world of hurt...not just the old and sick.  Yes, sporting events and finally live concerts will be the last thing to come back, but I hope they do sooner (NJ & OHANA) rather than later.  #buyerbeware #attendatyourownrisk #prochoice

I tend to agree.   I don't think people will put up with social distancing and a cripple economy for a prolonged period of time.   Eventually we would see civil unrest.   I don't think our governments can afford to pay us to stay home for a year or two.   I don't think people can handle staying socially distance for that period of time.   Something will give.  If they can't figure it out.. maybe the course does change and we let the thing rip because we decided it's better than the alternative.

This is where I’m at.  Sure the extra unemployment is ok and the stimulus, but that isn’t a long term solution. I actually make more when I am allowed to work. When things do open up you are gonna have 20ish million people all competing for the same jobs.  If the decision is made to keep things going for several more months, Where would the money come from to fund these programs especially if even more people are forced out of work?

ComeToTX

What’s the alternative? Millions dead or millions unemployed?

The severity of this could have been avoided but our Government shit the bed and now we’re laying in it. It’ll be a long year or two. 

Also, the US is the richest country in the history of the world and they’re giving us much less than other countries. They’re giving us minimum wage for a month. 

Red Mosqito

SmallestOceans said:

Realistically, the band will have played less than 30 shows in a 5 year span from the end of Summer 2016 to 2021.

Maybe this will teach them to not take so damn long to record an album. 

THEBIBLEISTEN

PB11041 said:

PJNB said:

PB11041 said:

It's April 15th.  The situation just developed in front of our eyes.  In the most immediate sane terms, everything in the near term has to be extremely cautious.  But people trying to fingerprint the when and should of everything is totally arbitrary and designed to illicit awe and can be entirely wrong in their ridiculous effort to be "first" on a hot take.

  

This is where I sit too. Remember the models that said the US would be at 240,000 deaths even with social distancing by August? I do not fault them at all for giving those numbers out as I think that they were using the best numbers that they had at the time but one week later the new data cut that down to 1/4 of the size. All I am saying with this is it changes everyday/week and to make an assumption on it right now is a guess at best. 

Yes there is a likely hood that we have to wait for a magical vaccine to be produced and for us to be able to to go back to concerts but so many things can change for better or worse in those 12-18 months that they are estimating for us to need to produce one.

the other truth to the matter is that with a vaccine, the 12-18 month is built on both 'regulations' and expectancy for producers to be able to ramp up production.   Yes there is a part where they have to confirm testing, I am not ignoring or overlooking that, but, the other fact that people miss is that every vaccine is inherently a risk, there is nothing bullet proof.  I have gotten the annual influenza vaccine every year since 2009.  It is a protective measure but it guarantees nothing. I have definitely had the flu at least once in that time frame, probably twice.

The most likely doomsday scenario outcome for a more protracted period is less nothing happening until end of 2022, but rather the 95% shut down of international borders across the world.  In that anything other than goods for consumption and production will not travel internationally for perhaps a year or two.  

Countries, even as vast and wide spread as the US and Canada can do effective contact tracing, mitigation and containment within their own borders, but the airports are what caused this mass spreading.  Total and utter carelessness and fecklessness in screening.  

And before everyone says, ha they failed it this the first time, this was a worldwide failure and a very shitty job by an albiet important organization in the World Health Organization.   And there was no apparatus in place to more effectively attack this anywhere.  That is already being addressed by organizations that are better at planning, like Google and Apple.  They just are better and more invested in getting it right.  

STFU

RoleModelsinBlood31

Our govt has been excellent at dealing with this.   Don’t believe the haters.  We acted early and would have even earlier if the truth had come out from China.  It’s nit about blame. This is a terrible situation made by handing the keys to the govt to the scientists.  You don’t hand the keys over to the military when there’s a war, life goes on.  We should never have blown this out of proportion like we have.  Many areas in this huge ass country could still be functioning normally and it didn’t have to come to this.  Mistakes in judgement, fear, and overreaction are the cause, and the effect is massive unemployment and millions without the ability to pay their bills. The loss of homes, businesses and livelihood is simply not worth the amount of deaths. The models were wrong and the fear got us into this mess.  We all agree the concerts were correctly postponed, but we need to see the bigger picture amiss the shitty situation.

ComeToTX

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Our govt has been excellent at dealing with this.   Don’t believe the haters.  We acted early and would have even earlier if the truth had come out from China.  It’s nit about blame. This is a terrible situation made by handing the keys to the govt to the scientists.  You don’t hand the keys over to the military when there’s a war, life goes on.  We should never have blown this out of proportion like we have.  Many areas in this huge ass country could still be functioning normally and it didn’t have to come to this.  Mistakes in judgement, fear, and overreaction are the cause, and the effect is massive unemployment and millions without the ability to pay their bills. The loss of homes, businesses and livelihood is simply not worth the amount of deaths. The models were wrong and the fear got us into this mess.  We all agree the concerts were correctly postponed, but we need to see the bigger picture amiss the shitty situation.

Without NY and CA the economy doesn’t run. Which models were wrong?

RatherStarved

My condolences to the people on this thread (and not on this thread) who have lost friends or loved ones to this virus.  It’s definitely worse than the flu.  I think that’s beyond dispute at this point.

I do think the point is valid though that at some point shows have to return and we can’t Iive in fear forever.  But we can’t be reckless.  It can’t be 15k people gathering and becoming super spreaders of the virus.  Vaccine may well be necessary (one is already in testing) but it’s possible a combination of a treatment and enough people having antibodies could suffice.  The experts will have to determine that.  It’ll become clearer as time passes.

Masks may reduce the risk, but who really wants to go to a show in a mask.

On a lighter note, the post a few posts above about 2032 and still no Houston show is priceless.

unforgiven

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Our govt has been excellent at dealing with this.   Don’t believe the haters.  We acted early and would have even earlier if the truth had come out from China.  It’s nit about blame. This is a terrible situation made by handing the keys to the govt to the scientists.  You don’t hand the keys over to the military when there’s a war, life goes on.  We should never have blown this out of proportion like we have.  Many areas in this huge ass country could still be functioning normally and it didn’t have to come to this.  Mistakes in judgement, fear, and overreaction are the cause, and the effect is massive unemployment and millions without the ability to pay their bills. The loss of homes, businesses and livelihood is simply not worth the amount of deaths. The models were wrong and the fear got us into this mess.  We all agree the concerts were correctly postponed, but we need to see the bigger picture amiss the shitty situation.

Rubbish, the US as dealt with this as badly as just about any developed country in the world, except for a couple of countries denying. For the supposed world power to have messed this up so badly is of high concern!

PB11041

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

PB11041 said:

PJNB said:

PB11041 said:

It's April 15th.  The situation just developed in front of our eyes.  In the most immediate sane terms, everything in the near term has to be extremely cautious.  But people trying to fingerprint the when and should of everything is totally arbitrary and designed to illicit awe and can be entirely wrong in their ridiculous effort to be "first" on a hot take.

  

This is where I sit too. Remember the models that said the US would be at 240,000 deaths even with social distancing by August? I do not fault them at all for giving those numbers out as I think that they were using the best numbers that they had at the time but one week later the new data cut that down to 1/4 of the size. All I am saying with this is it changes everyday/week and to make an assumption on it right now is a guess at best. 

Yes there is a likely hood that we have to wait for a magical vaccine to be produced and for us to be able to to go back to concerts but so many things can change for better or worse in those 12-18 months that they are estimating for us to need to produce one.

the other truth to the matter is that with a vaccine, the 12-18 month is built on both 'regulations' and expectancy for producers to be able to ramp up production.   Yes there is a part where they have to confirm testing, I am not ignoring or overlooking that, but, the other fact that people miss is that every vaccine is inherently a risk, there is nothing bullet proof.  I have gotten the annual influenza vaccine every year since 2009.  It is a protective measure but it guarantees nothing. I have definitely had the flu at least once in that time frame, probably twice.

The most likely doomsday scenario outcome for a more protracted period is less nothing happening until end of 2022, but rather the 95% shut down of international borders across the world.  In that anything other than goods for consumption and production will not travel internationally for perhaps a year or two.  

Countries, even as vast and wide spread as the US and Canada can do effective contact tracing, mitigation and containment within their own borders, but the airports are what caused this mass spreading.  Total and utter carelessness and fecklessness in screening.  

And before everyone says, ha they failed it this the first time, this was a worldwide failure and a very shitty job by an albiet important organization in the World Health Organization.   And there was no apparatus in place to more effectively attack this anywhere.  That is already being addressed by organizations that are better at planning, like Google and Apple.  They just are better and more invested in getting it right.  

STFU

F Me In The Brain

Dumpster 🔥!

PB11041

kst said:

My condolences to the people on this thread (and not on this thread) who have lost friends or loved ones to this virus.  It’s definitely worse than the flu.  I think that’s beyond dispute at this point.

I do think the point is valid though that at some point shows have to return and we can’t Iive in fear forever.  But we can’t be reckless.  It can’t be 15k people gathering and becoming super spreaders of the virus.  Vaccine may well be necessary (one is already in testing) but it’s possible a combination of a treatment and enough people having antibodies could suffice.  The experts will have to determine that.  It’ll become clearer as time passes.

Masks may reduce the risk, but who really wants to go to a show in a mask.

On a lighter note, the post a few posts above about 2032 and still no Houston show is priceless.

There are no less than 85 vaccines in various stages of testing currently.

F Me In The Brain

Vaccines are at least one year out, likely longer.

PB11041

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Our govt has been excellent at dealing with this.   Don’t believe the haters.  We acted early and would have even earlier if the truth had come out from China.  It’s nit about blame. This is a terrible situation made by handing the keys to the govt to the scientists.  You don’t hand the keys over to the military when there’s a war, life goes on.  We should never have blown this out of proportion like we have.  Many areas in this huge ass country could still be functioning normally and it didn’t have to come to this.  Mistakes in judgement, fear, and overreaction are the cause, and the effect is massive unemployment and millions without the ability to pay their bills. The loss of homes, businesses and livelihood is simply not worth the amount of deaths. The models were wrong and the fear got us into this mess.  We all agree the concerts were correctly postponed, but we need to see the bigger picture amiss the shitty situation.

Not a rationale take on this.  The models were not necessarily wrong, they are models and it is impossible to say what might have happened had nothing been done in some areas and all logic says things in say New York would be substantially worse. Predicting the unpredictable or attempting to state it was not the right thing to do because it worked in some capacity is hugely disingenuous. 

What can be said is some areas have clearly done better contact tracing and containment, State of Washington comes to mind.

That said years of preplanning for an event like this were failed at all levels of government for going on almost 18 years.  You can't pre plan a vaccine, but you can preplan a safety lockdown.  And this is definitely on area that the WHO and all members countries totally screwed up. Shit should have been shut down in January.  No international travel beyond durable goods, health items and foods.  Mandatory quarantines for anyone participating in such to keep the necessary services crossing international borders.

The near term future is massive testing, contact tracing and quarantine of both the sick and those who are extremely vulnerable.  But that is probably a roll out in May, June, July.  And sadly, unless people and their governments are totally crazy, closed borders for the foreseeable future until you have complete containment and then plausible management.  

foodboy

the problem is this virus spreads so easily. in london they thought they could just let it go and get immunity that way but it overwhelmed the hospitals forcing them to shut things down. that is and still is the problem. this is not the flu. i heard one grocery chain is mandating you wear a mask to enter their store. to me this makes sense. even a home made one as there isn't enough masks for hospitals right now. eventually once masks are plentiful it should be the norm until a cure ,medication or a safely tested vaccine is found. don't listen to mr gates as his record with vaccines is not what you might think. he was booted out of india and s africa . caused a lot of problems with trying to help with his vaccines. more harm than good. if everyone wore a mask and gloves it would prevent the spread of this virus quite a bit. until then if they open things up it will just build back up again and we will be right back where we started.  

Zod

foodboy said:

the problem is this virus spreads so easily. in london they thought they could just let it go and get immunity that way but it overwhelmed the hospitals forcing them to shut things down. that is and still is the problem. this is not the flu. i heard one grocery chain is mandating you wear a mask to enter their store. to me this makes sense. even a home made one as there isn't enough masks for hospitals right now. eventually once masks are plentiful it should be the norm until a cure ,medication or a safely tested vaccine is found. don't listen to mr gates as his record with vaccines is not what you might think. he was booted out of india and s africa . caused a lot of problems with trying to help with his vaccines. more harm than good. if everyone wore a mask and gloves it would prevent the spread of this virus quite a bit. until then if they open things up it will just build back up again and we will be right back where we started.  

Unfortunately if this thing looks prolonged, they may have no choice but to open things backup.  The effects of a mass economic depression might be even worse than the disease :(  Still crossing my fingers that someone pulls a rabbit out of the hat.   That's a tough call to make.

You can tell Trump at least understands the issue a bit.  If the US (or any country) stays locked down to long, it's going to bankruptcies and unemployed everywhere.   Government bailouts are like scotch tape.. they're only going to hold it together for a bit.   I think that's why he's pushing to re-open things sooner than most people would like.

That's a tough call.  Peoples lives or their livlihoods.... two shitty choices.

It feels like there's two things.  There's the doctors who are very much focused on the human life component.   Then people like Trump who have valid concerns that keeping things shut down is going to cause economic devistation.  There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.  Other than maybe what sweden and the netherlands are doing, which some restrictions, but still fairly open.   Basically letting the thing spread at a medium pace.   Inadvertent attempt at herd immunity.

ComeToTX

Millions of dead Americans will shut down the economy too.  It's not either/or.

SHZA

foodboy said:

the problem is this virus spreads so easily. in london they thought they could just let it go and get immunity that way but it overwhelmed the hospitals forcing them to shut things down. that is and still is the problem. this is not the flu. i heard one grocery chain is mandating you wear a mask to enter their store. to me this makes sense. even a home made one as there isn't enough masks for hospitals right now. eventually once masks are plentiful it should be the norm until a cure ,medication or a safely tested vaccine is found. don't listen to mr gates as his record with vaccines is not what you might think. he was booted out of india and s africa . caused a lot of problems with trying to help with his vaccines. more harm than good. if everyone wore a mask and gloves it would prevent the spread of this virus quite a bit. until then if they open things up it will just build back up again and we will be right back where we started.  

"Foodboy" is definitely smarter than Bill Gates. Listen to him

SHZA

Zod said:

foodboy said:

the problem is this virus spreads so easily. in london they thought they could just let it go and get immunity that way but it overwhelmed the hospitals forcing them to shut things down. that is and still is the problem. this is not the flu. i heard one grocery chain is mandating you wear a mask to enter their store. to me this makes sense. even a home made one as there isn't enough masks for hospitals right now. eventually once masks are plentiful it should be the norm until a cure ,medication or a safely tested vaccine is found. don't listen to mr gates as his record with vaccines is not what you might think. he was booted out of india and s africa . caused a lot of problems with trying to help with his vaccines. more harm than good. if everyone wore a mask and gloves it would prevent the spread of this virus quite a bit. until then if they open things up it will just build back up again and we will be right back where we started.  

Unfortunately if this thing looks prolonged, they may have no choice but to open things backup.  The effects of a mass economic depression might be even worse than the disease :(  Still crossing my fingers that someone pulls a rabbit out of the hat.   That's a tough call to make.

You can tell Trump at least understands the issue a bit.  If the US (or any country) stays locked down to long, it's going to bankruptcies and unemployed everywhere.   Government bailouts are like scotch tape.. they're only going to hold it together for a bit.   I think that's why he's pushing to re-open things sooner than most people would like.

That's a tough call.  Peoples lives or their livlihoods.... two shitty choices.

It feels like there's two things.  There's the doctors who are very much focused on the human life component.   Then people like Trump who have valid concerns that keeping things shut down is going to cause economic devistation.  There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.  Other than maybe what sweden and the netherlands are doing, which some restrictions, but still fairly open.   Basically letting the thing spread at a medium pace.   Inadvertent attempt at herd immunity.

I think our society has already made that choice -- lives over jobs. Reopening things on a large scale now would largely undo what social distancing has accomplished to this point. Infections would spike, the health system would become overwhelmed, and the body count would skyrocket. I can't see the government or business leaders allowing that to happen. 

static111

ComeToTX said:

Millions of dead Americans will shut down the economy too.  It's not either/or.

  There is also the reality that some serious money needs to go out to people or have payment forgiveness or something.  22million unemployed and rising, crazy people like in Michigan acting stupid, bills still due, there has to be an or. Otherwise the bottom falls out of the whole house of cards. How long do you think the country can stay shut down before we hit a depression we can’t come back from? I don’t see that there would be a huge amount of bipartisan support for another 4 trillion plus bailout to keep us going if this needs to go on too much longer.  As evidenced by dumb rednecks, the civil unrest is already growing.  I’m not looking to troll here, just looking for your opinion on how we get through if the shut down is to last a couple of months longer or more?

NEweather

My +1 for going to concerts, is having a hard time, cuz she wants to go to that Def Leppard/ Motley Crue July 2020 date, in SF-and they haven't "postponed" or cancelled yet as far as I know- but have heard the govenor say negatives about those kinds of things-so I don't know what's with that.