Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

Go Beavers

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1783341520726249672?s=19

And why the supreme court decided to hear the immunity defense. They’ll delay it so it’s too close to the election, then they’ll delay it again and if Trump wins, he’ll kill the case. Justice Thomas is in the clear at that point. 

mickeyrat

Biden

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1783341520726249672?s=19

And why the supreme court decided to hear the immunity defense. They’ll delay it so it’s too close to the election, then they’ll delay it again and if Trump wins, he’ll kill the case. Justice Thomas is in the clear at that point. 

he would. need to reverse himself then. stated unequivocally in 2020 presidents do not enjoy absolute immunity

mickeyrat

Biden

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1784044812737425427?s=19

brianlux

Biden

Can any of you actually imagine what will happen if Trump wins in election this fall?  I can't because every time I start to think about what that would be like, my brain shuts down and I come to in a few minutes and find myself staring at the wall.  If it happens, if he is elected, we are screwed beyond recognition. 

mickeyrat

Biden

https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1784949256031191281?s=19

mrussel1

Biden

brianlux said:

Can any of you actually imagine what will happen if Trump wins in election this fall?  I can't because every time I start to think about what that would be like, my brain shuts down and I come to in a few minutes and find myself staring at the wall.  If it happens, if he is elected, we are screwed beyond recognition. 

I don't think that is true.  I am certainly very concerned about what changes he would try to implement, but there are actually safeguards in this country that he cannot bypass, not the least being the federal bureaucracy.  I think people use fatalistic language to ensure people vote, but it also drives up anxiety.  For all of Trump's bluster the first four years, he really did very little.  

The one area I get really nervous about are foreign affairs.  The executive branch has much more power abroad that at home.  So things like pulling Ukraine support and letting Russia win the war is what worries me the most.  And then the downstream effect of other European countries' freedom being at risk.  

mickeyrat

Biden

https://twitter.com/MarshallCohen/status/1785031854921322620?s=19

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Can any of you actually imagine what will happen if Trump wins in election this fall?  I can't because every time I start to think about what that would be like, my brain shuts down and I come to in a few minutes and find myself staring at the wall.  If it happens, if he is elected, we are screwed beyond recognition. 

I don't think that is true.  I am certainly very concerned about what changes he would try to implement, but there are actually safeguards in this country that he cannot bypass, not the least being the federal bureaucracy.  I think people use fatalistic language to ensure people vote, but it also drives up anxiety.  For all of Trump's bluster the first four years, he really did very little.  

The one area I get really nervous about are foreign affairs.  The executive branch has much more power abroad that at home.  So things like pulling Ukraine support and letting Russia win the war is what worries me the most.  And then the downstream effect of other European countries' freedom being at risk.  

Are you not familiar with Project 2025? That plan takes the guardrails of the Federal bureaucracy and turns them into capos who protect the mob boss. Coupled with judicial appointments and you have what POOTWH and his ilk are dreaming about becoming reality. These people are serious, dedicated and are backed with $$$. Just look where we are with the repub party and their eventual nominee. POOTWH gets reelected and the Brandon administration will seem old-timey and quaint in comparison.

This is not fear mongering to drive libs to the polls.

mrussel1

Biden

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Can any of you actually imagine what will happen if Trump wins in election this fall?  I can't because every time I start to think about what that would be like, my brain shuts down and I come to in a few minutes and find myself staring at the wall.  If it happens, if he is elected, we are screwed beyond recognition. 

I don't think that is true.  I am certainly very concerned about what changes he would try to implement, but there are actually safeguards in this country that he cannot bypass, not the least being the federal bureaucracy.  I think people use fatalistic language to ensure people vote, but it also drives up anxiety.  For all of Trump's bluster the first four years, he really did very little.  

The one area I get really nervous about are foreign affairs.  The executive branch has much more power abroad that at home.  So things like pulling Ukraine support and letting Russia win the war is what worries me the most.  And then the downstream effect of other European countries' freedom being at risk.  

Are you not familiar with Project 2025? That plan takes the guardrails of the Federal bureaucracy and turns them into capos who protect the mob boss. Coupled with judicial appointments and you have what POOTWH and his ilk are dreaming about becoming reality. These people are serious, dedicated and are backed with $$$. Just look where we are with the repub party and their eventual nominee. POOTWH gets reelected and the Brandon administration will seem old-timey and quaint in comparison.

This is not fear mongering to drive libs to the polls.

I am familiar with that alleged plan being put together by crazy Trump supporters.  That doesn't make it a law.  That doesn't mean these morons will actually dismantle the FBI, kill the ATF and all of their other crazy plans.  The whole strategy depends on the unitary executive theory, which is dubious on its own.  The bills to create and ongoing bills to fund these parts of the Executive Branch are binding on any administration.  So to do what it sets out to do would need either a Senate that does not filibuster the plan, a House and a Senate willing to abdicate their power FOREVER, not just for one president, and/or a SCOTUS that completely ignores the concept of bicameral house, executive signature to create a law. 

In other words, it's far fetched to me.  

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Can any of you actually imagine what will happen if Trump wins in election this fall?  I can't because every time I start to think about what that would be like, my brain shuts down and I come to in a few minutes and find myself staring at the wall.  If it happens, if he is elected, we are screwed beyond recognition. 

I don't think that is true.  I am certainly very concerned about what changes he would try to implement, but there are actually safeguards in this country that he cannot bypass, not the least being the federal bureaucracy.  I think people use fatalistic language to ensure people vote, but it also drives up anxiety.  For all of Trump's bluster the first four years, he really did very little.  

The one area I get really nervous about are foreign affairs.  The executive branch has much more power abroad that at home.  So things like pulling Ukraine support and letting Russia win the war is what worries me the most.  And then the downstream effect of other European countries' freedom being at risk.  

Are you not familiar with Project 2025? That plan takes the guardrails of the Federal bureaucracy and turns them into capos who protect the mob boss. Coupled with judicial appointments and you have what POOTWH and his ilk are dreaming about becoming reality. These people are serious, dedicated and are backed with $$$. Just look where we are with the repub party and their eventual nominee. POOTWH gets reelected and the Brandon administration will seem old-timey and quaint in comparison.

This is not fear mongering to drive libs to the polls.

I am familiar with that alleged plan being put together by crazy Trump supporters.  That doesn't make it a law.  That doesn't mean these morons will actually dismantle the FBI, kill the ATF and all of their other crazy plans.  The whole strategy depends on the unitary executive theory, which is dubious on its own.  The bills to create and ongoing bills to fund these parts of the Executive Branch are binding on any administration.  So to do what it sets out to do would need either a Senate that does not filibuster the plan, a House and a Senate willing to abdicate their power FOREVER, not just for one president, and/or a SCOTUS that completely ignores the concept of bicameral house, executive signature to create a law. 

In other words, it's far fetched to me.  

These are not proposed legislative changes. These are proposed rules changes to be implemented by political appointments who head up the organization, whether it’s the EPA or the department of commerce. Rule changes that are carried out by yes men (don’t take it as sexist, it just sounds better and conveys the meaning better than “yes-persons or yes-people) and aren’t noticed or opposed until there’s a court challenge. Changing the rules or requirements for getting hired in the civil service or by which background or law school you went to so that “interpretation” of the law or rule is favourable is controlled by OPM, Office of Personnel Management, as an example. Do the same at the FBI, DOJ, Pentagon, FEC, IRS, DOL, EPA, etc., and you have effectively changed government without the legislative oversight and when someone somewhere sues, the courts uphold it, all the way to SCOTUS, and we know where they are currently. Can’t fire everyone in an agency, branch, division? Relocate the office while having a roster of ready applicants ready to be hired. Loyalty oaths, who you worked for and where you went to school become the method, particularly for key decision making positions. Follow that up with hiring loyalists who won’t question the directions given and you reshape government to the will of the executive. That scenario in the hands of POOTWH and his ilk is frightening and should give everyone pause. And it’s real and they’re telling you what and how they’re going to do it. They have lists to begin on day one, both hiring and what rules changes they want, by EO.

Add one or both houses of congress to repub control and you can pretty much forget about democracy.

mrussel1

Biden

So you think the FBI will be disbanded? I don't. 

mickeyrat

Biden

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Can any of you actually imagine what will happen if Trump wins in election this fall?  I can't because every time I start to think about what that would be like, my brain shuts down and I come to in a few minutes and find myself staring at the wall.  If it happens, if he is elected, we are screwed beyond recognition. 

I don't think that is true.  I am certainly very concerned about what changes he would try to implement, but there are actually safeguards in this country that he cannot bypass, not the least being the federal bureaucracy.  I think people use fatalistic language to ensure people vote, but it also drives up anxiety.  For all of Trump's bluster the first four years, he really did very little.  

The one area I get really nervous about are foreign affairs.  The executive branch has much more power abroad that at home.  So things like pulling Ukraine support and letting Russia win the war is what worries me the most.  And then the downstream effect of other European countries' freedom being at risk.  

Are you not familiar with Project 2025? That plan takes the guardrails of the Federal bureaucracy and turns them into capos who protect the mob boss. Coupled with judicial appointments and you have what POOTWH and his ilk are dreaming about becoming reality. These people are serious, dedicated and are backed with $$$. Just look where we are with the repub party and their eventual nominee. POOTWH gets reelected and the Brandon administration will seem old-timey and quaint in comparison.

This is not fear mongering to drive libs to the polls.

I am familiar with that alleged plan being put together by crazy Trump supporters.  That doesn't make it a law.  That doesn't mean these morons will actually dismantle the FBI, kill the ATF and all of their other crazy plans.  The whole strategy depends on the unitary executive theory, which is dubious on its own.  The bills to create and ongoing bills to fund these parts of the Executive Branch are binding on any administration.  So to do what it sets out to do would need either a Senate that does not filibuster the plan, a House and a Senate willing to abdicate their power FOREVER, not just for one president, and/or a SCOTUS that completely ignores the concept of bicameral house, executive signature to create a law. 

In other words, it's far fetched to me.  

its a heritage foundation idea

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

So you think the FBI will be disbanded? I don't. 

Disbanded? Crazy talk. Refocused on political and personal enemies? Sure. Directed to refrain from investigating malfeasance conducted by POOTWH and his ilk? Sure. Dropping or burying allegations or investigations of payoffs, bribery, political interference and corruption? You betcha. Harassment of particular liberal leaning groups and organizations like BLM, LGBTQ+ and family planning organizations? Bet on it.

brianlux

Biden

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Can any of you actually imagine what will happen if Trump wins in election this fall?  I can't because every time I start to think about what that would be like, my brain shuts down and I come to in a few minutes and find myself staring at the wall.  If it happens, if he is elected, we are screwed beyond recognition. 

I don't think that is true.  I am certainly very concerned about what changes he would try to implement, but there are actually safeguards in this country that he cannot bypass, not the least being the federal bureaucracy.  I think people use fatalistic language to ensure people vote, but it also drives up anxiety.  For all of Trump's bluster the first four years, he really did very little.  

The one area I get really nervous about are foreign affairs.  The executive branch has much more power abroad that at home.  So things like pulling Ukraine support and letting Russia win the war is what worries me the most.  And then the downstream effect of other European countries' freedom being at risk.  

Hey bud, I hope you are right, but I'm not as convinced as I'd like to be.  Trump's first move will be to dismantle as many of those safeguards as possible.  

Plus, I mean, who would have ever suspected of Roe Vs Wade would get overturned?  Who would have ever imagined the Capitol building being breached and lives of lawmakers so nearly lost?  Who would have ever imagined a mad man with no morals who claims "If I went out on the street and shot people dead at random, my followers would still vote for me" (and they would!)-- who would believe someone like that could be elected president, and might be again?

And yes, right on about the concern for foreign affairs. It would a mess that would take a long, long time to rectify.

Well, anyway, I hope none of this comes to pass.

Halifax2TheMax

This was just AG Bill DISbarred. Imagine a whole slew of cabinet secretaries and undersecretaries along with corresponding directors serving one person and one person only and not the ‘Murican people writ large. They showed you a glimpse of what is to come. Billy talking about “militant secularists?” Can someone point me toward a few? I’d like to sign up like those militia guys. From WaPo:

Before Barr was the guy noting correctly that Trump’s claims about the 2020 election were false, he was the guy defending and extending Trump’s line-crossing approach to the presidency. (Even as Barr claimed that the prosecutions Trump faces were perhaps political, in his familiar just-asking-questions way, he also pointed out to Collins that Trump “basically has the kind of personality that he’s always testing the limit,” which is “what gets him in trouble.”)

Barr got the gig in part by sending an unsolicited letter to the Justice Department in 2018 arguing that special counsel Robert S. Mueller III couldn’t feasibly charge a president with obstructing justice. After Barr took over as attorney general less than a year later, the Mueller investigation into Russia’s effort to influence the 2016 election quickly concluded. Barr’s framing of the report’s findings was incredibly useful to Trump in batting away concerns about his actions.

And then Barr went further, appointing a U.S. attorney to investigate the origins of the Russia probe. Barr had an active hand in this effort to raise questions about the work of federal law enforcement, an effort that ultimately tried to implicate Hillary Clinton directly in triggering questions about ties between Trump and Russia. (It did not work.)

Before Barr was the guy admitting that Trump didn’t have the goods on election fraud, he was the attorney general giving Trump oxygen by allowing the Justice Department to break tradition by digging into alleged claims of fraud. Before that, he was the guy who came out to ask law enforcementdealing with protesters in Lafayette Square whether the protesters would still be there when the president came out of the White House, with the violent clearing of the square following a few minutes later — and Trump’s photo op at a church a few minutes after that.

Before that, he was the guy who set up a system under which Rudy Giuliani’s flood of allegations about Biden from sources in Ukraine (including some linked to Russian intelligence) worked their way into proper law enforcement channels — a system that ultimately generatedthe discredited bribery claim against the current president.

All of these actions were taken in service of a president who viewed his power as expansive and allowed for targeting opponents in direct and indirect ways. As he made clear in that initial letter to the Justice Department, Barr shares this view of presidential power, at least when deployed by a Republican president.

Barr has framed his worldview in starkly religious terms, as he did in an infamous 2019 speech at the University of Notre Dame.

“Today militant secularists do not have a live-and-let-live spirit,” he said in that speech, identifying these secularists in the way an adherent of the extremist QAnon ideology might, as elements of the media and entertainment industries and as college professors. “They are not content to leave religious people alone to practice their faith. Instead, they seem to take delight in compelling people to violate their conscience.”

At another point in that speech, Barr said, “I do not mean to suggest that there is no hope for moral renewal in our country, but we cannot sit back and just hope that the pendulum is going to swing back towards sanity.”

Barr broached the issue of morality to Collins, too.

“Biden is not a great moral exemplar, okay?” he said. “And is he following the laws? Here he is, giving away another round of forgiving student loans, after he lost it in the Supreme Court.” On Barr’s scales of morality, Trump’s actions sit evenly with Biden’s forgiving student loans.

In part because he’s so willing to excuse what Trump did. Collins asked Barr about a claim that Trump had called for the execution of someone who had leaked an unflattering story about him.

“I remember him being very mad about that. I actually don’t remember him saying, executing. But I wouldn’t dispute it, you know?” Barr responded. “I mean, it doesn’t sound — I mean, the president would lose his temper and say things like that. I doubt he would have actually carried it out.”

Pressed by Collins, he claimed he was confident that Trump could be talked out of such an action. “The thing that I worry about President Trump is not that he’s going to become an autocrat and do those kinds of things,” Barr insisted. This came a minute or two before his claim about how the Biden administration’s effort to address emissions from internal combustion engines was a mark of democratic collapse.

Barr also doesn’t seem to acknowledge that his break with Trump was rooted specifically in his inability to talk Trump off the ledge. He tried to get Trump to step away from the election-fraud stuff, without luck. But he seemingly wants those watching to assume that Trump won’t have someone killed.

Collins challenged Barr on this.

“Name one thing that Biden has done that’s worse” than trying to subvert the election, she said.

“I think his whole administration is a disaster for the country,” Barr replied.

Collins asked whether it was “worse than subverting the peaceful transfer of power.”

“Did he succeed?” Barr replied.

The answer is “yes,” of course: Power was transferred, but the process was not peaceful. But, hey, at least no one suggested that cutting back on natural gas stoves would have potential health and environmental benefits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/29/bill-barr-doesnt-mind-little-autocracy-if-your-politics-are-right/

The former attorney general of the United States. People better wake the fuck up.

mickeyrat

Biden

guess its lost on him how all this shit started?

https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1785079139214528832?s=19

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

guess its lost on him how all this shit started?

https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1785079139214528832?s=19

Ruddy’s desperate and delusional.

OnWis97

Biden

mrussel1 said:

So you think the FBI will be disbanded? I don't. 

If 45 becomes 47 everything is on the table. We might not even have a functioning federal government a year from now.

cincybearcat

Biden

OnWis97 said:

mrussel1 said:

So you think the FBI will be disbanded? I don't. 

If 45 becomes 47 everything is on the table. We might not even have a functioning federal government a year from now.

As much as I am not a fan of Biden this is what scares me with Trump. The retribution tour and just destroying things with no plan. I don’t think all is bad, but because it will just be retribution and they won’t have a well thought out plan, it will all end badly 

mickeyrat

Biden

cincybearcat said:

OnWis97 said:

mrussel1 said:

So you think the FBI will be disbanded? I don't. 

If 45 becomes 47 everything is on the table. We might not even have a functioning federal government a year from now.

As much as I am not a fan of Biden this is what scares me with Trump. The retribution tour and just destroying things with no plan. I don’t think all is bad, but because it will just be retribution and they won’t have a well thought out plan, it will all end badly 

so what do you think project 2025 is then? halfbaked bullshit?