AOC and the "Center-Right" Democratic Party

ecdanc

I know that right-wing media had a field day with Ocasio-Cortez's statement that "The Democratic Party is a center or a center-conservative party," and that much of the mainstream American "left" also took issue with her statement. I'm curious to hear from those who identity as Democrats, liberals, progressives, or leftists on this (others are, of course, welcome to chime in). 

This NYT article (opinion piece) discussing work done by the Manifesto Project is pretty interesting. It shows that the most recent DNC platform is left of the median (for much of Europe, the US, and Canada). But, it shows that historically (at least since AOC was 11 years old), she's not entirely wrong. So, the movement left coincides with the shift that brought her into the political limelight. I also find it fascinating that the DNC is still right of UK Labour. I'm not an expert on British politics, but I've never thought of them as particularly radical (perhaps this is because the space between the British parties is smaller than the space between US parties). 

Anyway. Thoughts?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunday/republican-platform-far-right.html

gimmesometruth27

the dems are centrist, or just slightly left of center. you compare them to most European "leftist" parties and the dems are still to the right of them. the progressives are the wing of the democrats that have a loud voice, so it makes the party seem more to the left than it is. centrist democrats, to me, are the problem.

ecdanc

gimmesometruth27 said:

the dems are centrist, or just slightly left of center. you compare them to most European "leftist" parties and the dems are still to the right of them. the progressives are the wing of the democrats that have a loud voice, so it makes the party seem more to the left than it is. centrist democrats, to me, are the problem.

And what is the solution? I ask that as a serious question. 

gimmesometruth27

ecdanc said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

the dems are centrist, or just slightly left of center. you compare them to most European "leftist" parties and the dems are still to the right of them. the progressives are the wing of the democrats that have a loud voice, so it makes the party seem more to the left than it is. centrist democrats, to me, are the problem.

And what is the solution? I ask that as a serious question. 

start by moving in the direction of your base. the demographic being called "centrist" is getting smaller and smaller, while the majority of people are moving to one side or the other. the dems need to be out in front on this and be proactive instead of being reactive.

ecdanc

gimmesometruth27 said:

ecdanc said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

the dems are centrist, or just slightly left of center. you compare them to most European "leftist" parties and the dems are still to the right of them. the progressives are the wing of the democrats that have a loud voice, so it makes the party seem more to the left than it is. centrist democrats, to me, are the problem.

And what is the solution? I ask that as a serious question. 

start by moving in the direction of your base. the demographic being called "centrist" is getting smaller and smaller, while the majority of people are moving to one side or the other. the dems need to be out in front on this and be proactive instead of being reactive.

Your post makes me think of this article from The Intercept from about a year ago: https://theintercept.com/2019/02/26/democratic-party-centrism-aoc-sanders-warren/

FYI, I asked, because--based on your post--I was curious if you thought working through the DNC was a possible solution. It seems like you're saying, yes, right?

gimmesometruth27

ecdanc said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

ecdanc said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

the dems are centrist, or just slightly left of center. you compare them to most European "leftist" parties and the dems are still to the right of them. the progressives are the wing of the democrats that have a loud voice, so it makes the party seem more to the left than it is. centrist democrats, to me, are the problem.

And what is the solution? I ask that as a serious question. 

start by moving in the direction of your base. the demographic being called "centrist" is getting smaller and smaller, while the majority of people are moving to one side or the other. the dems need to be out in front on this and be proactive instead of being reactive.

Your post makes me think of this article from The Intercept from about a year ago: https://theintercept.com/2019/02/26/democratic-party-centrism-aoc-sanders-warren/

FYI, I asked, because--based on your post--I was curious if you thought working through the DNC was a possible solution. It seems like you're saying, yes, right?

it is a start. the only way you move a monolith like the dnc is by direct and sustained pressure. change happens with the young, which is why AOC is such a threat to the establishment. old people rarely deviate, and old people are typically the ones who are the most engaged. this is to me why change is so, so difficult and such a slow process.

mrussel1

gimmesometruth27 said:

the dems are centrist, or just slightly left of center. you compare them to most European "leftist" parties and the dems are still to the right of them. the progressives are the wing of the democrats that have a loud voice, so it makes the party seem more to the left than it is. centrist democrats, to me, are the problem.

I don't feel like I'm the problem.  Try getting elected without us. 

mrussel1

FYI there's a whole thread on AOC, including a discussion on her idiotic statement.  

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

FYI there's a whole thread on AOC, including a discussion on her idiotic statement.  

See, now you're just trolling. 

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

FYI there's a whole thread on AOC, including a discussion on her idiotic statement.  

See, now you're just trolling. 

How so? There's a thread.  No reason too start a new one

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

FYI there's a whole thread on AOC, including a discussion on her idiotic statement.  

See, now you're just trolling. 

How so? There's a thread.  No reason too start a new one

Pretty sure the "idiotic" part was trolling. And the AOC thread I see doesn't have a post since January 10; she made the statement I'm referencing after that date. Lastly, if you'd actually bothered to read my post, you'd see that I'm only mentioning AOC as a way to begin a larger discussion. What's the problem?

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

FYI there's a whole thread on AOC, including a discussion on her idiotic statement.  

See, now you're just trolling. 

How so? There's a thread.  No reason too start a new one

Pretty sure the "idiotic" part was trolling. And the AOC thread I see doesn't have a post since January 10; she made the statement I'm referencing after that date. Lastly, if you'd actually bothered to read my post, you'd see that I'm only mentioning AOC as a way to begin a larger discussion. What's the problem?

I don't troll.  The discussion must have been on the Dem debate thread instead.  I think her statement on the party being center right was imprecise at best.  If the span of her statement is only western Europe and Canada, then fine, it's center right, and say that.  Otherwise it's wholly uninformed.  Second, the part of her statement (and I believe it was this statement, could have been something else that came out close to that) where she said the party's tent was too big, really fucking pisses me off.  We are the big tent party.  We have been since the 80's.  If it's too big for her because she can't get her ideas through, then tough shit.  Go be a Democratic Socialist.  Then we won't have to hear about her not paying her party dues and helping the broader organization.  That is another one of my 15 pet peeves about AOC.  
I worked for a long time, volunteering for candidates in FL and VA to help this party.  It irritates the shit out of me for her to act like she's the voice of it.  She isn't.  

cincybearcat

AOC is a political genius. I mean you lose the last presidential election and feel threatened by the current president, the best political move is to try and marginalize your views and reject the work of those that came before you, this making your party smaller and smaller. Genius. 

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

AOC is a political genius. I mean you lose the last presidential election and feel threatened by the current president, the best political move is to try and marginalize your views and reject the work of those that came before you, this making your party smaller and smaller. Genius. 

We can't possibly understand the scope of her coalition building.  Last time I checked, politics was about convincing the unconvinced.  Second, people who refuse to compromise have nothing to lose.  White millenial progressives?  What happens if Trump wins re-election?  Nothing..  nothing at all to them.  They have zero to lose, so why compromise.  

what dreams

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

mrussel1

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

Now now. No temper tantrums. You told me you know economics, so you must know Marx. 

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

Now now. No temper tantrums. You told me you know economics, so you must know Marx. 

I didn't study Marx academically.  Im an executive at a financial services organization and we always know the macro conditions, credit quality,  roll rates,  delinquencies,  NACO, Cecl rules and every other metric you can possibly fathom.  But your worldwide proletariat comment is dumb.  True Marxism has never succeeded in practice. 

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

Now now. No temper tantrums. You told me you know economics, so you must know Marx. 

I didn't study Marx academically.  Im an executive at a financial services organization and we always know the macro conditions, credit quality,  roll rates,  delinquencies,  NACO, Cecl rules and every other metric you can possibly fathom.  But your worldwide proletariat comment is dumb.  True Marxism has never succeeded in practice. 

But capitalism has?

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

Now now. No temper tantrums. You told me you know economics, so you must know Marx. 

I didn't study Marx academically.  Im an executive at a financial services organization and we always know the macro conditions, credit quality,  roll rates,  delinquencies,  NACO, Cecl rules and every other metric you can possibly fathom.  But your worldwide proletariat comment is dumb.  True Marxism has never succeeded in practice. 

But capitalism has?

Compared to Marxism, feudalism,  and every other system,  you're damn right.  Our mixed economy has pulled more people out of poverty than any other system.  Look at the numbers.  Tell me the economic system that's better than the mixed system we have used for the better part of a century. 

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

Now now. No temper tantrums. You told me you know economics, so you must know Marx. 

I didn't study Marx academically.  Im an executive at a financial services organization and we always know the macro conditions, credit quality,  roll rates,  delinquencies,  NACO, Cecl rules and every other metric you can possibly fathom.  But your worldwide proletariat comment is dumb.  True Marxism has never succeeded in practice. 

But capitalism has?

Compared to Marxism, feudalism,  and every other system,  you're damn right.  Our mixed economy has pulled more people out of poverty than any other system.  Look at the numbers.  Tell me the economic system that's better than the mixed system we have used for the better part of a century. 

Communism. 

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

Now now. No temper tantrums. You told me you know economics, so you must know Marx. 

I didn't study Marx academically.  Im an executive at a financial services organization and we always know the macro conditions, credit quality,  roll rates,  delinquencies,  NACO, Cecl rules and every other metric you can possibly fathom.  But your worldwide proletariat comment is dumb.  True Marxism has never succeeded in practice. 

But capitalism has?

Compared to Marxism, feudalism,  and every other system,  you're damn right.  Our mixed economy has pulled more people out of poverty than any other system.  Look at the numbers.  Tell me the economic system that's better than the mixed system we have used for the better part of a century. 

Communism. 

Now which country are you arguing has successfully implemented it?

cincybearcat

Can you 2 get a room? Bouncing between threads like a couple of teenage theys.

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

I'm going with the old cliche about about how I can't be contained by a label. Many issues require complicated solutions. Compromise doesn't mean giving up. It  means everybody gets something, and the stuff you don't agree on, you leave off the table. We are a pluralistic country, e pluribus unum. This despotic power grab by the Republican party has wrecking our country, and now the response by the AOCs of the world is to do the same thing. Their version of despotism scares me just as much. Power in this country was meant to be shared.

e pluribus unum... damn straight.  

I prefer “proletariat of the world, unite!”

No thanks.  I came from working class.  I worked hard to not put on a uniform everyday like my father. 

Under communism, you won’t have to. 

You're right,  I won't live in a country where the state controls the resources.  

Who said anything about a country?

Stfu. You post dumber shit every time you hit the keyboard.  You claim to want a serious discussion but are incapable.  

Now now. No temper tantrums. You told me you know economics, so you must know Marx. 

I didn't study Marx academically.  Im an executive at a financial services organization and we always know the macro conditions, credit quality,  roll rates,  delinquencies,  NACO, Cecl rules and every other metric you can possibly fathom.  But your worldwide proletariat comment is dumb.  True Marxism has never succeeded in practice. 

But capitalism has?

Compared to Marxism, feudalism,  and every other system,  you're damn right.  Our mixed economy has pulled more people out of poverty than any other system.  Look at the numbers.  Tell me the economic system that's better than the mixed system we have used for the better part of a century. 

Communism. 

Now which country are you arguing has successfully implemented it?

That wasn’t your question. 

ecdanc

cincybearcat said:

Can you 2 get a room? Bouncing between threads like a couple of teenage theys.

I’m disinclined to listen to you after you feigned interest early today only to throw back my kid’s pronoun as an attempt at mockery.