The coronavirus

Ledbetterman10

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

either would have been a tool for racists and conspiracy theorists with trump at the helm. that's why it's important to have rational adults leading the discussion.  and as to your last question, it depends if it had been framed as a mistake or as a bio-weapon. 

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

either would have been a tool for racists and conspiracy theorists with trump at the helm. that's why it's important to have rational adults leading the discussion.  and as to your last question, it depends if it had been framed as a mistake or as a bio-weapon. 

It's not the scientists' job to worry about that. They're supposed to conduct research and report their findings. Leave the smoothing over of racial tensions to the people that handle that. Biden was running for president at the time. He could've been pushing back on any racial stuff from Trump. 

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

either would have been a tool for racists and conspiracy theorists with trump at the helm. that's why it's important to have rational adults leading the discussion.  and as to your last question, it depends if it had been framed as a mistake or as a bio-weapon. 

It's not the scientists' job to worry about that. They're supposed to conduct research and report their findings. Leave the smoothing over of racial tensions to the people that handle that. Biden was running for president at the time. He could've been pushing back on any racial stuff from Trump. 

it's also not their job to entertain hypotheticals that have no basis in fact. 

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

either would have been a tool for racists and conspiracy theorists with trump at the helm. that's why it's important to have rational adults leading the discussion.  and as to your last question, it depends if it had been framed as a mistake or as a bio-weapon. 

It's not the scientists' job to worry about that. They're supposed to conduct research and report their findings. Leave the smoothing over of racial tensions to the people that handle that. Biden was running for president at the time. He could've been pushing back on any racial stuff from Trump. 

it's also not their job to entertain hypotheticals that have no basis in fact. 

Speaking of hypotheticals that have no basis in fact, on 05/04/20, Fauci told National Geographic that he was “very, very strongly leaning toward that the virus could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated” and that the virus “evolved in nature and then jumped species.”

So he entertained that hypothetical. 

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

either would have been a tool for racists and conspiracy theorists with trump at the helm. that's why it's important to have rational adults leading the discussion.  and as to your last question, it depends if it had been framed as a mistake or as a bio-weapon. 

It's not the scientists' job to worry about that. They're supposed to conduct research and report their findings. Leave the smoothing over of racial tensions to the people that handle that. Biden was running for president at the time. He could've been pushing back on any racial stuff from Trump. 

it's also not their job to entertain hypotheticals that have no basis in fact. 

Speaking of hypotheticals that have no basis in fact, on 05/04/20, Fauci told National Geographic that he was “very, very strongly leaning toward that the virus could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated” and that the virus “evolved in nature and then jumped species.”

So he entertained that hypothetical. 

I'd like to know what makes him lean that way, though, because I don't know how anyone leans any way with the information the public currently is aware of. 

maybe the difference here is the "artificially or deliberately manipulated" is different to him than just it escaping out of the lab by mistake. I don't know. 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

either would have been a tool for racists and conspiracy theorists with trump at the helm. that's why it's important to have rational adults leading the discussion.  and as to your last question, it depends if it had been framed as a mistake or as a bio-weapon. 

It's not the scientists' job to worry about that. They're supposed to conduct research and report their findings. Leave the smoothing over of racial tensions to the people that handle that. Biden was running for president at the time. He could've been pushing back on any racial stuff from Trump. 

it's also not their job to entertain hypotheticals that have no basis in fact. 

Speaking of hypotheticals that have no basis in fact, on 05/04/20, Fauci told National Geographic that he was “very, very strongly leaning toward that the virus could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated” and that the virus “evolved in nature and then jumped species.”

So he entertained that hypothetical. 

I'd like to know what makes him lean that way, though, because I don't know how anyone leans any way with the information the public currently is aware of. 

maybe the difference here is the "artificially or deliberately manipulated" is different to him than just it escaping out of the lab by mistake. I don't know. 

Some of your questions regarding Fauci and his thoughts are answered in this thread. Read the WaPo articles/opinions of his explanations to get a sense. Regarding the bold, it was stated in one of those articles that yes, there was an appearance that it may have been "man made" but that much deeper study and analysis, of each spike's DNA or RNA or whatever needed to occur to see if that was the case. To that point in time, it hadn't happened yet. Fauci, scientists, national security interests and other administration officials had and continue to have access to way more information than the public.

People are falling for the POOTWH spin machine blasting out misinformation and hypotheticals and from where I sit and what I've read, most, if not all, is BS. Did it come from China? Yes. Did it escape from the lab in Wuhan? Maybe. Did it originate in the wet market? Perhaps. Did the lab conduct research on bats with what became covid19? Yes. Did researchers go to caves to collect bats? Yes. Did China deliberately release the virus as a bio-weapon? Highly unlikely. Did they lie about/cover up the release? Yes, but so did the Soviets after Chernobyl and I'm sure the US has as well regarding incidents in the past (damage control, national security implication, embarrassment, etc.).

I don't get the kerfluffel. POOTWH lied about it, politicized it and bungled the response from the get go. Fauci is being scapegoated.

Poncier

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

It's funny that you guys think that admitting that Chinese scientists made mistakes would be a tool for racists, but that suggesting that China's filthy, inhumane wet-markets being the cause of the virus isn't. I mean really, if you wanted to be mad a China for the virus, which would make you madder? Their scientists (who were partially funded by us) making mistakes, or their wet-markets being the cause? The wet-markets are more of a "thing that's bad in Asia" than a laboratory is. So wouldn't a racist that wants to harass an Asian-American be more inclined to do it over the wet-markets than the lab? 

either would have been a tool for racists and conspiracy theorists with trump at the helm. that's why it's important to have rational adults leading the discussion.  and as to your last question, it depends if it had been framed as a mistake or as a bio-weapon. 

It's not the scientists' job to worry about that. They're supposed to conduct research and report their findings. Leave the smoothing over of racial tensions to the people that handle that. Biden was running for president at the time. He could've been pushing back on any racial stuff from Trump. 

it's also not their job to entertain hypotheticals that have no basis in fact. 

Speaking of hypotheticals that have no basis in fact, on 05/04/20, Fauci told National Geographic that he was “very, very strongly leaning toward that the virus could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated” and that the virus “evolved in nature and then jumped species.”

So he entertained that hypothetical. 

I'd like to know what makes him lean that way, though, because I don't know how anyone leans any way with the information the public currently is aware of. 

maybe the difference here is the "artificially or deliberately manipulated" is different to him than just it escaping out of the lab by mistake. I don't know. 

That quote was May of 2020

HughFreakingDillon

oh shit I didn't notice that. 

Meltdown99

Canadians who got the AstraZeneca vaccine will not be allowed to see Bruce Springsteen on Broadway…you must present proof that you have been vaccinated with an FDA approved vaccine…hmmm.  Interesting, considering there is talk about a vaccine passport…wonder if this will be common policy going forward?

mickeyrat

 

Coronavirus vaccine Viral Questions Coronavirus pandemic

Can you mix and match COVID-19 vaccines?

By MARIA CHENG

1 hour ago

Can you mix and match two-dose COVID-19 vaccines?

It's likely safe and effective, but researchers are still gathering data to be sure.

The authorized COVID-19 shots around the world are all designed to stimulate your immune system to produce virus-fighting antibodies, though the way they do so varies, noted Dr. Kate O’Brien, director of the World Health Organization’s vaccine unit.

“Based on the basic principles of how vaccines work, we do think that the mix-and-match regimens are going to work,” she said.

Scientists at Oxford University in the United Kingdom are testing combinations of the two-dose COVID-19 vaccines made by AstraZeneca, Moderna, Novavax and Pfizer-BioNTech. Smaller trials are also ongoing in Spain and Germany.

“We really just need to get the evidence in each of these (vaccine) combinations,” O’Brien said.

So far, limited data suggests an AstraZeneca shot followed by the Pfizer shot is safe and effective. The combination also appears to come with a slightly higher likelihood of temporary side effects like aches and chills.

That might be because mixing and matching different types of vaccines can often produce a stronger immune response, said Lawrence Young, a virologist at the University of Warwick in the United Kingdom.

In some places, health officials already suggest mixing in select circumstances.

After the AstraZeneca vaccine was linked to extremely rare blood clots, several European countries including Germany and France recommended people who got it as a first dose get a Pfizer or Moderna shot as a second dose instead. On Thursday, Canada made the same recommendation.

Some places like Britain say people should aim to get the same vaccine for their second dose if possible. If they got AstraZeneca as their first shot, they're advised to get another vaccine only if they have a history of blood clots or other conditions that might put them at higher risk of clots.

___

The AP is answering your questions about the coronavirus in this series. Submit them at: FactCheck@AP.org. Read more here:

Why do some people get side effects after COVID-19 vaccines?

Can COVID-19 vaccines affect my period?

How long does protection from COVID-19 vaccines last?

dignin

mickeyrat said:

 

Coronavirus vaccine Viral Questions Coronavirus pandemic

Can you mix and match COVID-19 vaccines?

By MARIA CHENG

1 hour ago

Can you mix and match two-dose COVID-19 vaccines?

It's likely safe and effective, but researchers are still gathering data to be sure.

The authorized COVID-19 shots around the world are all designed to stimulate your immune system to produce virus-fighting antibodies, though the way they do so varies, noted Dr. Kate O’Brien, director of the World Health Organization’s vaccine unit.

“Based on the basic principles of how vaccines work, we do think that the mix-and-match regimens are going to work,” she said.

Scientists at Oxford University in the United Kingdom are testing combinations of the two-dose COVID-19 vaccines made by AstraZeneca, Moderna, Novavax and Pfizer-BioNTech. Smaller trials are also ongoing in Spain and Germany.

“We really just need to get the evidence in each of these (vaccine) combinations,” O’Brien said.

So far, limited data suggests an AstraZeneca shot followed by the Pfizer shot is safe and effective. The combination also appears to come with a slightly higher likelihood of temporary side effects like aches and chills.

That might be because mixing and matching different types of vaccines can often produce a stronger immune response, said Lawrence Young, a virologist at the University of Warwick in the United Kingdom.

In some places, health officials already suggest mixing in select circumstances.

After the AstraZeneca vaccine was linked to extremely rare blood clots, several European countries including Germany and France recommended people who got it as a first dose get a Pfizer or Moderna shot as a second dose instead. On Thursday, Canada made the same recommendation.

Some places like Britain say people should aim to get the same vaccine for their second dose if possible. If they got AstraZeneca as their first shot, they're advised to get another vaccine only if they have a history of blood clots or other conditions that might put them at higher risk of clots.

___

The AP is answering your questions about the coronavirus in this series. Submit them at: FactCheck@AP.org. Read more here:

Why do some people get side effects after COVID-19 vaccines?

Can COVID-19 vaccines affect my period?

How long does protection from COVID-19 vaccines last?

I'm one week out from my second dose of two different vaccines. All good here.

mrussel1

At this point,  with a normal ass president,  I pretty much hope it came from the lab.  That would benefit the US geopolitically,  galvanizing other countries to take a harder line against China.  

dankind

mrussel1 said:

At this point,  with a normal ass president,  I pretty much hope it came from the lab.  That would benefit the US geopolitically,  galvanizing other countries to take a harder line against China.  

Why? We have the same types of labs here. There’s one in Boston. There’s one in Richmond. 

Perhaps other countries should take a harder line against building these types of labs in metropolitan areas. 

When Bainbridge, Oppenheimer, and the rest of those “sons of bitches” experimented with their weapons of mass destruction, they did so in the middle of a goddamn desert. 

But let’s fuck with biological weapons of mass
destruction in Boston, Wuhan, Atlanta, Richmond, Winnipeg, Rome, San Antonio, Taipei, etc. 

Halifax2TheMax

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

At this point,  with a normal ass president,  I pretty much hope it came from the lab.  That would benefit the US geopolitically,  galvanizing other countries to take a harder line against China.  

Why? We have the same types of labs here. There’s one in Boston. There’s one in Richmond. 

Perhaps other countries should take a harder line against building these types of labs in metropolitan areas. 

When Bainbridge, Oppenheimer, and the rest of those “sons of bitches” experimented with their weapons of mass destruction, they did so in the middle of a goddamn desert. 

But let’s fuck with biological weapons of mass
destruction in Boston, Wuhan, Atlanta, Richmond, Winnipeg, Rome, San Antonio, Taipei, etc. 

You forgot this gem.

https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/plum-island-animal-disease-center

mrussel1

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

At this point,  with a normal ass president,  I pretty much hope it came from the lab.  That would benefit the US geopolitically,  galvanizing other countries to take a harder line against China.  

Why? We have the same types of labs here. There’s one in Boston. There’s one in Richmond. 

Perhaps other countries should take a harder line against building these types of labs in metropolitan areas. 

When Bainbridge, Oppenheimer, and the rest of those “sons of bitches” experimented with their weapons of mass destruction, they did so in the middle of a goddamn desert. 

But let’s fuck with biological weapons of mass
destruction in Boston, Wuhan, Atlanta, Richmond, Winnipeg, Rome, San Antonio, Taipei, etc. 

I'm not making that argument.  The virus happened.  So if we can box China in on a number of issues like currency manipulation,  human rights,  trade,  then all the better.  

mickeyrat

as long as all ppe protocols are followed as to threat level of a given virus, it can be beneficial to do these studies.

Recall reading how some of the techs were working  on this virus or one like it in a lab space with much less stringent protocols. like level 2 when they should have been in a level 4 lab? all suited up etc etc.....

HughFreakingDillon

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

At this point,  with a normal ass president,  I pretty much hope it came from the lab.  That would benefit the US geopolitically,  galvanizing other countries to take a harder line against China.  

Why? We have the same types of labs here. There’s one in Boston. There’s one in Richmond. 

Perhaps other countries should take a harder line against building these types of labs in metropolitan areas. 

When Bainbridge, Oppenheimer, and the rest of those “sons of bitches” experimented with their weapons of mass destruction, they did so in the middle of a goddamn desert. 

But let’s fuck with biological weapons of mass
destruction in Boston, Wuhan, Atlanta, Richmond, Winnipeg, Rome, San Antonio, Taipei, etc. 

scared the shit out of me when I found out there was one near my house, and the controversy over the couple that worked there, travelled to wuhan in the summer of 2019, and were dismissed from their jobs shortly after and no one will say why. 

mickeyrat

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

At this point,  with a normal ass president,  I pretty much hope it came from the lab.  That would benefit the US geopolitically,  galvanizing other countries to take a harder line against China.  

Why? We have the same types of labs here. There’s one in Boston. There’s one in Richmond. 

Perhaps other countries should take a harder line against building these types of labs in metropolitan areas. 

When Bainbridge, Oppenheimer, and the rest of those “sons of bitches” experimented with their weapons of mass destruction, they did so in the middle of a goddamn desert. 

But let’s fuck with biological weapons of mass
destruction in Boston, Wuhan, Atlanta, Richmond, Winnipeg, Rome, San Antonio, Taipei, etc. 

scared the shit out of me when I found out there was one near my house, and the controversy over the couple that worked there, travelled to wuhan in the summer of 2019, and were dismissed from their jobs shortly after and no one will say why. 

could possibly be they objected to the type labs being used for some of the viruses...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level#Level_4

HughFreakingDillon

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

At this point,  with a normal ass president,  I pretty much hope it came from the lab.  That would benefit the US geopolitically,  galvanizing other countries to take a harder line against China.  

Why? We have the same types of labs here. There’s one in Boston. There’s one in Richmond. 

Perhaps other countries should take a harder line against building these types of labs in metropolitan areas. 

When Bainbridge, Oppenheimer, and the rest of those “sons of bitches” experimented with their weapons of mass destruction, they did so in the middle of a goddamn desert. 

But let’s fuck with biological weapons of mass
destruction in Boston, Wuhan, Atlanta, Richmond, Winnipeg, Rome, San Antonio, Taipei, etc. 

scared the shit out of me when I found out there was one near my house, and the controversy over the couple that worked there, travelled to wuhan in the summer of 2019, and were dismissed from their jobs shortly after and no one will say why. 

could possibly be they objected to the type labs being used for some of the viruses...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level#Level_4

you're right, I never considered something like that. it was just the succession of events that was reported, then the secrecy, my mind naturally went to "were they involved in this somehow?"