The coronavirus

mickeyrat

Ledbetterman10 said:

OnWis97 said:

cblock4life said:

OnWis97 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Best/worst thing you can do to a troll is to IGNORE AND NOT RESPOND.

There's a lot of frustration because the troll won.

I’m totally stupid when it comes to this social media shit, not on FB, IG....nothing...did I do something wrong that made the troll win?

No the troll won because we’re not going to hit heard immunity. There are enough people like him that we’re going to be going through this indefinitely and I happen to believe that’s what he and his want.

He didn’t win these arguments; but in the real world he wins and we lose.

How do we (people that got the vaccine) “lose” if others don’t get it? And why do we need to hit herd immunity? I say so long as the health care system doesn’t get overwhelmed again by covid cases, then people who refused the vaccine that contract the virus will have to live with it, or die from it. 

It’d be one thing if there were people that wanted the vaccine and couldn’t get it. Then I’d feel a responsibility to help keep them safe, as I did during the height of the pandemic. But people that simply refused the vaccine? It’s up to them to keep themselves safe. 

"we" lose because we consider ourselves a part of the greater whole, where as they seem to be strict individualists.

OnWis97

Ledbetterman10 said:

OnWis97 said:

cblock4life said:

OnWis97 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Best/worst thing you can do to a troll is to IGNORE AND NOT RESPOND.

There's a lot of frustration because the troll won.

I’m totally stupid when it comes to this social media shit, not on FB, IG....nothing...did I do something wrong that made the troll win?

No the troll won because we’re not going to hit heard immunity. There are enough people like him that we’re going to be going through this indefinitely and I happen to believe that’s what he and his want.

He didn’t win these arguments; but in the real world he wins and we lose.

How do we (people that got the vaccine) “lose” if others don’t get it? And why do we need to hit herd immunity? I say so long as the health care system doesn’t get overwhelmed again by covid cases, then people who refused the vaccine that contract the virus will have to live with it, or die from it. 

It’d be one thing if there were people that wanted the vaccine and couldn’t get it. Then I’d feel a responsibility to help keep them safe, as I did during the height of the pandemic. But people that simply refused the vaccine? It’s up to them to keep themselves safe. 

I’d be with you if it was 100% effective.

Actually, the people I really feel for are those that have some medical reason they can’t vaccinate. 

On the plus side, I think we can be grateful that Fox News wasn’t around when the polio vaccine was created.

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

OnWis97 said:

cblock4life said:

OnWis97 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Best/worst thing you can do to a troll is to IGNORE AND NOT RESPOND.

There's a lot of frustration because the troll won.

I’m totally stupid when it comes to this social media shit, not on FB, IG....nothing...did I do something wrong that made the troll win?

No the troll won because we’re not going to hit heard immunity. There are enough people like him that we’re going to be going through this indefinitely and I happen to believe that’s what he and his want.

He didn’t win these arguments; but in the real world he wins and we lose.

How do we (people that got the vaccine) “lose” if others don’t get it? And why do we need to hit herd immunity? I say so long as the health care system doesn’t get overwhelmed again by covid cases, then people who refused the vaccine that contract the virus will have to live with it, or die from it. 

It’d be one thing if there were people that wanted the vaccine and couldn’t get it. Then I’d feel a responsibility to help keep them safe, as I did during the height of the pandemic. But people that simply refused the vaccine? It’s up to them to keep themselves safe. 

one thing that is concerning to me is that our hospital count is currently 50% made up of people UNDER 60. Many of those are under 40. so just "protecting the old" is unfortunately not a total win strategy, as many anti-vaxxers seem to think it is. they still think this is the flu that only kills people over 80. the variants are making people sicker than the OG. 

hopefully we reach majority immunity. if we can't get to herd, majority is our best bet at normalcy. 

Ledbetterman10

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

So they’ll be just as vulnerable even if we achieved herd immunity right? Since even vaccinated people can spread the virus. 

mrussel1

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

So they’ll be just as vulnerable even if we achieved herd immunity right? Since even vaccinated people can spread the virus. 

No, herd immunity protects the population because the virus loses available hosts. Herd immunity is critical for infants, as an example. 

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

So they’ll be just as vulnerable even if we achieved herd immunity right? Since even vaccinated people can spread the virus. 

that I'm not sure on. we know that yes, people vaccinated can still spread it, but I think with pfiser it can actually prevent people from being infected, astrazeneca cannot. not sure about J&J. 

and it also matters about viral load. if you don't have enough virus to get sick yourself, how much you pass on would be lesser, thus also preventing others from getting very ill. But @oftenreading is the best person to speak on such things. 

mcgruff10

What's everyones feeling on vaccinations for 12-16 year olds?  A hard no?  Wait awhile?  Sign up now?

My ex is a nurse practitioner and wants to get our 12 year old son vaccinated right away, I'm opting to wait a few months just to see how it goes.  

Ledbetterman10

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

So they’ll be just as vulnerable even if we achieved herd immunity right? Since even vaccinated people can spread the virus. 

No, herd immunity protects the population because the virus loses available hosts. Herd immunity is critical for infants, as an example. 

But I thought even the vaccinated are available hosts. That we can contract it and spread it even though we’re vaccinated. We just wouldn’t know we contracted it cause of the vaccine fighting the symptoms. 

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

No, not true except for those with allergies to the components, but that can potentially be overcome by people choosing a different type of vaccine. A pretty small number of people are allergic to PEG, for instance, which is one of the components of the mRNA vaccines, but if you are then it should be okay to use AZ or Janssen. 

People on all sorts of blood thinners and people with clotting disorders can still get vaccinated. They should let the person doing the vaccination know but it's not a contraindication.

I can't find any other contraindications. There are some conditions for which we don't have much, if any, data, so some care providers are being cautious, but nothing else is an absolute contraindication that I'm aware of. 

benjs

mickeyrat said:

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i'm done. you're hopeless. 

He's not hopeless - his goal is not to learn. I pledge to not feed the troll, though I'll gladly talk to any of you fine folks about him.

thats beneath you. you are one the more patient, reasoned arguers here. posting intelligent , well thought out responses.

keep THAT up.

Thanks mickey  

With respect to talking about this individual - I'm referring to talking about what compels an individual to come to a place like this purely to stir shit up. I don't believe this person is genuine whatsoever (based on how his 'most important concern' changes after his latest is debunked). 

This is a leech, here with the knowledge they won't change mind and the purpose of wasting our time. I'm done tolerating this nonsense, and I encourage others to act the same. Call it out as ill-informed, but don't waste your time explaining why to those who have no interest in listening.

mickeyrat

mcgruff10 said:

What's everyones feeling on vaccinations for 12-16 year olds?  A hard no?  Wait awhile?  Sign up now?

My ex is a nurse practitioner and wants to get our 12 year old son vaccinated right away, I'm opting to wait a few months just to see how it goes.  

data from their trials should available. compare those with the data from the earlier trials, the gen population and the 16 and up one. and you now have the data from theseveral months of widespread use.

do you trust his mothers clinical experience and expertise?

and your son, how astute is he? should he have some input in to getting it or not?

static111

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

cblock4life said:

OnWis97 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Best/worst thing you can do to a troll is to IGNORE AND NOT RESPOND.

There's a lot of frustration because the troll won.

I’m totally stupid when it comes to this social media shit, not on FB, IG....nothing...did I do something wrong that made the troll win?

No the troll won because we’re not going to hit heard immunity. There are enough people like him that we’re going to be going through this indefinitely and I happen to believe that’s what he and his want.

He didn’t win these arguments; but in the real world he wins and we lose.

no, we won't be going through this indefinitely. 

How does it stop without herd immunity?

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

So they’ll be just as vulnerable even if we achieved herd immunity right? Since even vaccinated people can spread the virus. 

that I'm not sure on. we know that yes, people vaccinated can still spread it, but I think with pfiser it can actually prevent people from being infected, astrazeneca cannot. not sure about J&J. 

and it also matters about viral load. if you don't have enough virus to get sick yourself, how much you pass on would be lesser, thus also preventing others from getting very ill. But @oftenreading is the best person to speak on such things. 

This is a really good article that provides clear information on all of these questions.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19

There is some interesting data in the article, but the short form is that we know that the available vaccines markedly reduce the risk of infection, not just symptoms or disease. That means that the immune system is preventing cells from being infected with virus, and if the cells aren't infected the virus doesn't replicate and so can't be transmitted to others. It still isn't zero, but it's a big drop - just how much of a drop seems to vary a bit from study to study and vaccine to vaccine. 

Viral load does matter, for those who do get an infection. It is likely that the lower the viral load (i.e. fewer viral particles in the blood), the lower the rate of viral shedding and the lower the rate of transmission to others. 

The rare person who can't get vaccinated, or the many who choose not to, are likely to face fewer potential exposure events if the majority of the population is vaccinated. They will still run some risk but certainly not as high as if no one was vaccinated. So individually they are "just as vulnerable" if they actually get exposed, but in practice less vulnerable since they are much less likely to get exposed.

Unless they hang out with a whole bunch of anti-vaxxers, I suppose. 

oftenreading

mcgruff10 said:

What's everyones feeling on vaccinations for 12-16 year olds?  A hard no?  Wait awhile?  Sign up now?

My ex is a nurse practitioner and wants to get our 12 year old son vaccinated right away, I'm opting to wait a few months just to see how it goes.  

Texas sized10-4 on vaccinating teens. 

mcgruff10

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

What's everyones feeling on vaccinations for 12-16 year olds?  A hard no?  Wait awhile?  Sign up now?

My ex is a nurse practitioner and wants to get our 12 year old son vaccinated right away, I'm opting to wait a few months just to see how it goes.  

data from their trials should available. compare those with the data from the earlier trials, the gen population and the 16 and up one. and you now have the data from theseveral months of widespread use.

do you trust his mothers clinical experience and expertise?

and your son, how astute is he? should he have some input in to getting it or not?

He s 12, he gets zero say lol.  My 17 year old daughter is another story.   

Do I trust my ex?  Oh man where do I begin?

dignin

dignin said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

dignin said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Follow the science.........

https://twitter.com/ajlamesa/status/1389918979381137408

https://twitter.com/ajlamesa/status/1389937819477479425

Nobody but nutters care.

You have zero credibility here.

I believe it was you lost a cousin recently.  I was sorry to read that.  Was a gofundme or anything set up where my wife and I could donate? 

Thank you for the reminder.

I appreciate the interest everyone here has shown. This just went up and they are getting close to their goal.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-for-the-therrien-family?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR1kk1q9gPMo2jXcJ0vrBrezVvQrWeAtVWUJEC_vYx49oN_sGjuElxUw4B0

The Therrien family of Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan has been dealing with more hardships over the past few months than most families deal with in a lifetime. In March of 2021, Daniel, Carrie and Hunter all fell ill with COVID-19. Carrie was an educational assistant at King George School in Moose Jaw. Carrie loved her job, and truly had a gift for caring for children with disabilities.  Carrie became ill with Covid on March 30th, 2021, was admitted to hospital on April 5th.  Carrie tragically passed away from COVID-19 on April 21, 2021. Carrie will be forever missed by her family, as she was the most attentive and loving mother. She was loved by everyone for her kind, positive and carefree attitude. Carrie has sadly left behind her husband Daniel, and their two boys, Brady (age 13) and Hunter (age 11). Nothing can prepare anyone for the shock and sadness to lose someone this young and healthy to COVID so suddenly.  

Not only is Dan dealing with the loss of his partner and the mother of his children, but also with a recurrence of a rare brain tumour. Dan was originally diagnosed with a rare cancerous brain tumor 15 years ago, which was surgically removed at that time. He was cancer free until August 2020, when they first suspected recurrence. Just prior to Carrie contracting COVID, Dan received the news that he would need a second surgery to remove the tumor in June of this year. This surgery must be done in Calgary, Alberta. Dan will most likely need radiation and chemotherapy after surgery is completed. This treatment will last over 1 year. Daniel is such a kind, devoted and amazing Dad to his two boys, Brady and Hunter. Dan’s boys are his world.

To help Dan and his sons through this difficult time, we are starting a GoFundMe to help with the lost income, travel expenses to Alberta, to help during the treatment and recovery phase of Dan’s cancer journey and future education fund for Brady and Hunter.  Thank you all so much

I'm pretty overwhelmed by the generosity you guys have shown.

Pearl Jam fans are the best hands down. I will never forget it.

Stay safe.

Weston1283

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

cblock4life said:

OnWis97 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Best/worst thing you can do to a troll is to IGNORE AND NOT RESPOND.

There's a lot of frustration because the troll won.

I’m totally stupid when it comes to this social media shit, not on FB, IG....nothing...did I do something wrong that made the troll win?

No the troll won because we’re not going to hit heard immunity. There are enough people like him that we’re going to be going through this indefinitely and I happen to believe that’s what he and his want.

He didn’t win these arguments; but in the real world he wins and we lose.

no, we won't be going through this indefinitely. 

How does it stop without herd immunity?

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/05/03/ashish-jha-herd-immunity/amp

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

That’s a good point on people that can’t be vaccinated for a medical reason. What are some of the medical reasons that would prevent someone from getting it?

people allergic to its ingredients, people on blood thinners, there are more. 

No, not true except for those with allergies to the components, but that can potentially be overcome by people choosing a different type of vaccine. A pretty small number of people are allergic to PEG, for instance, which is one of the components of the mRNA vaccines, but if you are then it should be okay to use AZ or Janssen. 

People on all sorts of blood thinners and people with clotting disorders can still get vaccinated. They should let the person doing the vaccination know but it's not a contraindication.

I can't find any other contraindications. There are some conditions for which we don't have much, if any, data, so some care providers are being cautious, but nothing else is an absolute contraindication that I'm aware of. 

there you go.