The coronavirus

dignin

Perfect is the enemy of good.

This will cost more lives than it will save.

gvn2fly1421

Thanks for the replies Mickey and mrussel...  Both replies make sense, I guess I am getting hung up on the Pfizer and Moderna having reports of thrombosis as well, (from what I have seen more per 100k administered than the J&J with all three still being minimal) why did those not get stopped for review or what not?

mrussel1

gvn2fly1421 said:

Thanks for the replies Mickey and mrussel...  Both replies make sense, I guess I am getting hung up on the Pfizer and Moderna having reports of thrombosis as well, (from what I have seen more per 100k administered than the J&J with all three still being minimal) why did those not get stopped for review or what not?

Got a link?  I've only seen AZ with the blood clotting, and that's not approved in the US. 

gvn2fly1421

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Thanks for the replies Mickey and mrussel...  Both replies make sense, I guess I am getting hung up on the Pfizer and Moderna having reports of thrombosis as well, (from what I have seen more per 100k administered than the J&J with all three still being minimal) why did those not get stopped for review or what not?

Got a link?  I've only seen AZ with the blood clotting, and that's not approved in the US. 

Hope the Woke Zombie on twitter counts...  She has never led me astray yet and has been pretty reliable...  Tweet and then chart below.

https://twitter.com/foogatwo/status/1382014503039205380

mrussel1

gvn2fly1421 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Thanks for the replies Mickey and mrussel...  Both replies make sense, I guess I am getting hung up on the Pfizer and Moderna having reports of thrombosis as well, (from what I have seen more per 100k administered than the J&J with all three still being minimal) why did those not get stopped for review or what not?

Got a link?  I've only seen AZ with the blood clotting, and that's not approved in the US. 

Hope the Woke Zombie on twitter counts...  She has never led me astray yet and has been pretty reliable...  Tweet and then chart below.

https://twitter.com/foogatwo/status/1382014503039205380

I don't see how he derived these numbers.  I also know the CDC said just this afternoon that there were no known cases of DVT from Moderna and Phizer.  

Now I'm not a doctor so it's possible that this rare clot from J&J is not just thrombosis but something more deadly.  It's also possible and logical that the CDC was looking at the Euro cases too, when making this recommendation (which is not a requirement).

gvn2fly1421

FiveBelow said:

Does anyone with knowledge of the vaccine process know when or if the "emergency use authorization" tag will be removed?  

Good question.  The way I understand it (and I freely admit I could be totally wrong) some of these issues should have been caught if the vaccines went through the normal procedure for gaining approval.

Essentially, EUA allows for a "shortcut" to market.  Can anyone confirm this?  I hate to use the term shortcut and would welcome a better word.

mrussel1

I know we're not supposed to publish full articles, but this is important and relevant, and many can't get through the paywall.  Here is the perspective from a former Surgeon General and Dean from UVA medical school.  It reflects many of the points made today, including other risks we take every day that are far more deadly.  @oftenreading brought them up.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/13/pausing-johnson-johnson-vaccine-was-right-choice/

Jerome Adams, a former U.S. surgeon general, is writing in his private capacity as a University of Virginia Darden dean’s fellow.

The announcement Tuesday that U.S. authorities recommend pausing administration of Johnson & Johnson’s covid-19 vaccine over incidents of blood clots is big news. It is important to read past the headlines and to have a healthy dose of perspective on the available information.

I have no doubt that officials at the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention agonized over the decision to halt administration of a highly effective and lifesaving vaccine. Still, I think it was the right choice. Medical professionals’ highest obligation is to avoid knowingly inflicting harm on patients. This pause is as much about maintaining public trust as it is about individual harm vs. potential benefit. Emerging data on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was concerning enough to necessitate pausing and closer study.

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So far, the data appears to indicate that six women have experienced “extremely rare” blood clots. While general concern is warranted about this vaccine, this pause should actually instill confidence among Americans that the safety monitoring process is working as it should. There is no drug for which all of the possible safety issues are known before authorization or approval. If a complication has an incidence of 1 in 1 million people, the complication may not become statistically detectable until several million people have received the therapy. Even then, it would become visible only if robust reporting and review systems are in place. That is exactly why the FDA reviews drug data for many years after initial approval. The covid-19 vaccine trials and approval process are working as they should, and now we have evidence that the monitoring process is functioning appropriately.

Full coverage of the coronavirus pandemic

This is a moment to keep in mind that every medical treatment has risks as well as benefits. One can experience negative side effects from treatments as common as Tylenol (overdoses from which kill one to two people every day) or ibuprofen. With more than 6 million Americans having received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine so far, the risk of blood clots — if proved — appears to be less than 1 in 1 million. For perspective, the risk of blood clots from smoking is about 1 in 600; from birth control, it’s 1 in 1,000; and from covid-19, it’s 1 in 7 — all far greater. With further investigation, it might become clear that the women who developed the rare blood clots had a particular risk factor in common or that some other as-yet-unknown risk factor is present.

Here’s another thing to consider: More than 560,000 Americans have died of covid-19. That puts the risk of fatality from the virus around 1 in 600. You’re not worried about covid because you don’t consider yourself high-risk? The risk of dying from covid if you are younger than 40 is about 1 in 40,000 — still far greater than the potential 1-in-1-million chance of a blood clot.

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Even if the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is proven to increase the risk of blood clots among some recipients, people should keep in mind that this vaccine has a different formulation than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Those new types of mRNA vaccines have been given to exponentially more people, and no higher incidence of clots has been noted among recipients. Those worried that Tuesday’s “pause” signals something about all covid vaccines are wrong. We shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water: We still have two highly effective and safe vaccines to help us beat back covid, plus variants, and facilitate reopening.

As a practicing anesthesiologist, I regularly discuss consent with patients for surgery. I tell my patients that everything medical professionals do has the potential to harm them under certain circumstances but that the treatments we offer can also relieve suffering and perhaps save their lives. I explain the risks but also the benefits of proceeding. I also tell them what I’d choose or recommend if I or a loved one were making the choice.

I’m a scientist and a doctor. I followed the vaccine trials closely, and I decided to get vaccinated. If I had to choose again, I’d make the same decision. While we absolutely must review the data and find out whether certain people are at greater risk with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, I’d still advise family members who weren’t already at increased risk for clots to take the Johnson & Johnson vaccine if it were the only one available to them.

Americans make many choices every day that carry a far greater risk. Among the greatest of those risks is the harm that comes from failing to protect ourselves from covid.

23scidoo

gvn2fly1421 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Now, if I wanted to dabble in conspiracies, I would respond to this post with...

"If you think they are making money now, wait til the 6 month boosters come out"

...but that might be too close to the truth.

There is no conispiracie..its fact, like science..

23scidoo

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Thanks for the replies Mickey and mrussel...  Both replies make sense, I guess I am getting hung up on the Pfizer and Moderna having reports of thrombosis as well, (from what I have seen more per 100k administered than the J&J with all three still being minimal) why did those not get stopped for review or what not?

Got a link?  I've only seen AZ with the blood clotting, and that's not approved in the US. 

Hope the Woke Zombie on twitter counts...  She has never led me astray yet and has been pretty reliable...  Tweet and then chart below.

https://twitter.com/foogatwo/status/1382014503039205380

I don't see how he derived these numbers.  I also know the CDC said just this afternoon that there were no known cases of DVT from Moderna and Phizer.  

Now I'm not a doctor so it's possible that this rare clot from J&J is not just thrombosis but something more deadly.  It's also possible and logical that the CDC was looking at the Euro cases too, when making this recommendation (which is not a requirement).

https://news.yahoo.com/johnson-johnson-blood-clot-risk-compared-common-medications-experts-175644988.html

The Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine has a 0.00009 percent risk of blood clots. With other common medications, the risk is greater.

There have been six reported cases of a condition called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) — a type of blood clot in the brain that can lead to a stroke — out of the more than 6.8 million doses of the vaccine that have been administered in the U.S., according to a joint statement from the agencies. All six cases happened in women between the ages of 18 and 48, with symptoms developing six to 13 days after they were vaccinated.

edit to add, the article then lists a number of other treatment courses that can lead to the same thing.

mrussel1

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

Should they feel sorry for you?

23scidoo

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

Should they feel sorry for you?

I'm not the one who thinks they care..

mrussel1

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

Should they feel sorry for you?

I'm not the one who thinks they care..

Who is that person?  You posted the link about the increasing prices.  I asked if you though they should give it away, run it at break even or make a profit.  I explained that production costs, shipping, etc. likely increases over time.. you know COLA, inflation, etc.  And then you asking if you should feel sorry.  Talk about a non-sequitur. 

23scidoo

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

Should they feel sorry for you?

I'm not the one who thinks they care..

Who is that person?  You posted the link about the increasing prices.  I asked if you though they should give it away, run it at break even or make a profit.  I explained that production costs, shipping, etc. likely increases over time.. you know COLA, inflation, etc.  And then you asking if you should feel sorry.  Talk about a non-sequitur. 

If you can't see the big business out there..

mrussel1

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

Should they feel sorry for you?

I'm not the one who thinks they care..

Who is that person?  You posted the link about the increasing prices.  I asked if you though they should give it away, run it at break even or make a profit.  I explained that production costs, shipping, etc. likely increases over time.. you know COLA, inflation, etc.  And then you asking if you should feel sorry.  Talk about a non-sequitur. 

If you can't see the big business out there..

If you can't construct an argument...

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

Should they feel sorry for you?

I'm not the one who thinks they care..

Who is that person?  You posted the link about the increasing prices.  I asked if you though they should give it away, run it at break even or make a profit.  I explained that production costs, shipping, etc. likely increases over time.. you know COLA, inflation, etc.  And then you asking if you should feel sorry.  Talk about a non-sequitur. 

If you can't see the big business out there..

If you can't construct an argument...

or answer a simple question

oftenreading

FiveBelow said:

Does anyone with knowledge of the vaccine process know when or if the "emergency use authorization" tag will be removed?  

Products approved under EUA can only be used during a public health emergency, so when/if COVID stops presenting a public health emergency the companies will need to apply through the usual channels if they wish to keep selling their vaccines in the US, for instance for boosters or vaccination of children or newcomers. 

23scidoo

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

mrussel1 said:

23scidoo said:

Bullshit..they don't care for profit, only for our health..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-bulgaria-pfizer-prices/bulgarian-pm-reveals-price-for-eus-new-vaccine-contract-with-pfizer-idUSKBN2BZ1JP

Are you arguing that the vaccines should be free from the manufacturers, they should be 0 profit, 0 loss, or that they should be able to make a profit.  Make a clear argument here, for once. 

Same price for everyone and we do not increase prices in just 3-4 months..
clear??

Do you think production costs are the same no matter the time, materials, shipping, etc.?  Just curious how long you have a run a business, or been involved in anything multinational? 

Should i feel sorry for them maybe??

Should they feel sorry for you?

I'm not the one who thinks they care..

Who is that person?  You posted the link about the increasing prices.  I asked if you though they should give it away, run it at break even or make a profit.  I explained that production costs, shipping, etc. likely increases over time.. you know COLA, inflation, etc.  And then you asking if you should feel sorry.  Talk about a non-sequitur. 

If you can't see the big business out there..

If you can't construct an argument...

or answer a simple question

Sorry but i can't help you..

static111

I heard if you take a first dose of moderna and follow it up with a second dose of Pfizer you will turn into ManBearPig. I got it from a very reliable source on Parler that has never steered me wrong. Why isn’t the drive by media reporting on this very real problem?

mrussel1

static111 said:

I heard if you take a first dose of moderna and follow it up with a second dose of Pfizer you will turn into ManBearPig. I got it from a very reliable source on Parler that has never steered me wrong. Why isn’t the drive by media reporting on this very real problem?

This is an actual picture of the communist corporate pharma communist's victim, right before he went to the ER.