The coronavirus

Bentleyspop

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

oftenreading said:

bootlegger10 said:

Well with issues from Astrozenica and J&J you can’t be too upset with those arguing the vaccines are rushed.   

No, this is incorrect and misunderstands how the research for these products occurs. 

For the Phase III studies alone, more than 165,000 participants in total were enrolled (combining Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and Janssen). It’s my understanding that only one blood clot issue occurred, and that was with the Janssen vaccine. The study was halted while it was investigated and then restarted. 

The clots of concern we see now did not show up until many more than 10 million people had been vaccinated. There is zero chance that these potential side effects would have been discovered without massive roll out worldwide, which means that no matter how slowly the vaccines were developed, we would not have known about this as a potential issue. 

It’s also worth noting that the “new” vaccines, the mRNA vaccines, do not appear to have this potential side effect. It’s only the vaccines using tried and true technologies that have caused concern. They would not have had any greater oversight had vaccine development taken years, not months. 

Do you have any opinion on the "blood clotting, stillbirths, and bizarre menses in women" that Naomi Wolf reported on yesterday?  I asked because I believe you are a woman yourself.

She is a known CONSPIRACY THEORIST so her posts have NO weight.

Do the math...
Also 6 in almost 7 million is a less then 1 in a million. 
While the same age group has a 55 in a million chance of dying from Covid-19.
Do the math

If you think they are stopping the vaccine for 6 cases, I have a bridge to sell you!

I don't normally respond  to conspiracy theorists but here goes... 

They are not "stopping the vaccines" they are putting a halt on the J&J so that the word can get out and people can reschedule for the other available vaccines.
The blood clotting seems to effect women under 30 on birth control. (Though I could be off on the details). So a 50some yr old male doesn't  have to worry so much.
There have been almost 190 million doses given out. Of that almost 7 million were J&J. That is less then 4%. So not such a big deal.

I know that facts and math have a liberal bias but give them a shot some time.

gvn2fly1421

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

oftenreading said:

bootlegger10 said:

Well with issues from Astrozenica and J&J you can’t be too upset with those arguing the vaccines are rushed.   

No, this is incorrect and misunderstands how the research for these products occurs. 

For the Phase III studies alone, more than 165,000 participants in total were enrolled (combining Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and Janssen). It’s my understanding that only one blood clot issue occurred, and that was with the Janssen vaccine. The study was halted while it was investigated and then restarted. 

The clots of concern we see now did not show up until many more than 10 million people had been vaccinated. There is zero chance that these potential side effects would have been discovered without massive roll out worldwide, which means that no matter how slowly the vaccines were developed, we would not have known about this as a potential issue. 

It’s also worth noting that the “new” vaccines, the mRNA vaccines, do not appear to have this potential side effect. It’s only the vaccines using tried and true technologies that have caused concern. They would not have had any greater oversight had vaccine development taken years, not months. 

Do you have any opinion on the "blood clotting, stillbirths, and bizarre menses in women" that Naomi Wolf reported on yesterday?  I asked because I believe you are a woman yourself.

She is a known CONSPIRACY THEORIST so her posts have NO weight.

Do the math...
Also 6 in almost 7 million is a less then 1 in a million. 
While the same age group has a 55 in a million chance of dying from Covid-19.
Do the math

If you think they are stopping the vaccine for 6 cases, I have a bridge to sell you!

I don't normally respond  to conspiracy theorists but here goes... 

They are not "stopping the vaccines" they are putting a halt on the J&J so that the word can get out and people can reschedule for the other available vaccines.
The blood clotting seems to effect women under 30 on birth control. (Though I could be off on the details). So a 50some yr old male doesn't  have to worry so much.
There have been almost 190 million doses given out. Of that almost 7 million were J&J. That is less then 4%. So not such a big deal.

I know that facts and math have a liberal bias but give them a shot some time.

Welp, there you have it folks...  Bentleyspoop from the PJ message board figured it out...  Could be off on the deets, but also declares stopping a rushed vaccine is "not such a big deal"...

I'll be moving on now...

mrussel1

This has a good summary.  They have not determined if the link is to oral contraceptives.  

https://news.trust.org/item/20210413134718-jugko

PJNB

So the people that are telling us that the vaccines are safe are not reliable but the people that that are pulling vaccines out of an "abundance of caution" are reliable. These are the same people. How convenient it must be to cherry pick the information you want and dismiss the rest. 

dankind

mrussel1 said:

This has a good summary.  They have not determined if the link is to oral contraceptives.  

https://news.trust.org/item/20210413134718-jugko

I thought that you couldn't get pregnant from oral?

oftenreading

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

oftenreading said:

bootlegger10 said:

Well with issues from Astrozenica and J&J you can’t be too upset with those arguing the vaccines are rushed.   

No, this is incorrect and misunderstands how the research for these products occurs. 

For the Phase III studies alone, more than 165,000 participants in total were enrolled (combining Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and Janssen). It’s my understanding that only one blood clot issue occurred, and that was with the Janssen vaccine. The study was halted while it was investigated and then restarted. 

The clots of concern we see now did not show up until many more than 10 million people had been vaccinated. There is zero chance that these potential side effects would have been discovered without massive roll out worldwide, which means that no matter how slowly the vaccines were developed, we would not have known about this as a potential issue. 

It’s also worth noting that the “new” vaccines, the mRNA vaccines, do not appear to have this potential side effect. It’s only the vaccines using tried and true technologies that have caused concern. They would not have had any greater oversight had vaccine development taken years, not months. 

Do you have any opinion on the "blood clotting, stillbirths, and bizarre menses in women" that Naomi Wolf reported on yesterday?  I asked because I believe you are a woman yourself.

She is a known CONSPIRACY THEORIST so her posts have NO weight.

Do the math...
Also 6 in almost 7 million is a less then 1 in a million. 
While the same age group has a 55 in a million chance of dying from Covid-19.
Do the math

If you think they are stopping the vaccine for 6 cases, I have a bridge to sell you!

I don't normally respond  to conspiracy theorists but here goes... 

They are not "stopping the vaccines" they are putting a halt on the J&J so that the word can get out and people can reschedule for the other available vaccines.
The blood clotting seems to effect women under 30 on birth control. (Though I could be off on the details). So a 50some yr old male doesn't  have to worry so much.
There have been almost 190 million doses given out. Of that almost 7 million were J&J. That is less then 4%. So not such a big deal.

I know that facts and math have a liberal bias but give them a shot some time.

Welp, there you have it folks...  Bentleyspoop from the PJ message board figured it out...  Could be off on the deets, but also declares stopping a rushed vaccine is "not such a big deal"...

I'll be moving on now...

Everybody poops. Even you. 

mrussel1

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

This has a good summary.  They have not determined if the link is to oral contraceptives.  

https://news.trust.org/item/20210413134718-jugko

I thought that you couldn't get pregnant from oral?

I haven't yet,  so there's that....

Ledbetterman10

oftenreading said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

oftenreading said:

bootlegger10 said:

Well with issues from Astrozenica and J&J you can’t be too upset with those arguing the vaccines are rushed.   

No, this is incorrect and misunderstands how the research for these products occurs. 

For the Phase III studies alone, more than 165,000 participants in total were enrolled (combining Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and Janssen). It’s my understanding that only one blood clot issue occurred, and that was with the Janssen vaccine. The study was halted while it was investigated and then restarted. 

The clots of concern we see now did not show up until many more than 10 million people had been vaccinated. There is zero chance that these potential side effects would have been discovered without massive roll out worldwide, which means that no matter how slowly the vaccines were developed, we would not have known about this as a potential issue. 

It’s also worth noting that the “new” vaccines, the mRNA vaccines, do not appear to have this potential side effect. It’s only the vaccines using tried and true technologies that have caused concern. They would not have had any greater oversight had vaccine development taken years, not months. 

Do you have any opinion on the "blood clotting, stillbirths, and bizarre menses in women" that Naomi Wolf reported on yesterday?  I asked because I believe you are a woman yourself.

She is a known CONSPIRACY THEORIST so her posts have NO weight.

Do the math...
Also 6 in almost 7 million is a less then 1 in a million. 
While the same age group has a 55 in a million chance of dying from Covid-19.
Do the math

If you think they are stopping the vaccine for 6 cases, I have a bridge to sell you!

I don't normally respond  to conspiracy theorists but here goes... 

They are not "stopping the vaccines" they are putting a halt on the J&J so that the word can get out and people can reschedule for the other available vaccines.
The blood clotting seems to effect women under 30 on birth control. (Though I could be off on the details). So a 50some yr old male doesn't  have to worry so much.
There have been almost 190 million doses given out. Of that almost 7 million were J&J. That is less then 4%. So not such a big deal.

I know that facts and math have a liberal bias but give them a shot some time.

Welp, there you have it folks...  Bentleyspoop from the PJ message board figured it out...  Could be off on the deets, but also declares stopping a rushed vaccine is "not such a big deal"...

I'll be moving on now...

Everybody poops. Even you. 

Chris Ballew of the Presidents of the USA band once pitched this to Weird Al as a parody of "Everybody Hurts" by R.E.M. Obviously Al wasn't going for it. 

Poncier

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

This has a good summary.  They have not determined if the link is to oral contraceptives.  

https://news.trust.org/item/20210413134718-jugko

I thought that you couldn't get pregnant from oral?

Don't believe everything the guys tell you at truck stops.

Merkin Baller

Poncier said:

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

This has a good summary.  They have not determined if the link is to oral contraceptives.  

https://news.trust.org/item/20210413134718-jugko

I thought that you couldn't get pregnant from oral?

Don't believe everything the guys tell you at truck stops.

I laughed, NGL. 

mrussel1

Poncier said:

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

This has a good summary.  They have not determined if the link is to oral contraceptives.  

https://news.trust.org/item/20210413134718-jugko

I thought that you couldn't get pregnant from oral?

Don't believe everything the guys tell you at truck stops.

Ha!

benjs

oftenreading said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

oftenreading said:

bootlegger10 said:

Well with issues from Astrozenica and J&J you can’t be too upset with those arguing the vaccines are rushed.   

No, this is incorrect and misunderstands how the research for these products occurs. 

For the Phase III studies alone, more than 165,000 participants in total were enrolled (combining Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and Janssen). It’s my understanding that only one blood clot issue occurred, and that was with the Janssen vaccine. The study was halted while it was investigated and then restarted. 

The clots of concern we see now did not show up until many more than 10 million people had been vaccinated. There is zero chance that these potential side effects would have been discovered without massive roll out worldwide, which means that no matter how slowly the vaccines were developed, we would not have known about this as a potential issue. 

It’s also worth noting that the “new” vaccines, the mRNA vaccines, do not appear to have this potential side effect. It’s only the vaccines using tried and true technologies that have caused concern. They would not have had any greater oversight had vaccine development taken years, not months. 

Do you have any opinion on the "blood clotting, stillbirths, and bizarre menses in women" that Naomi Wolf reported on yesterday?  I asked because I believe you are a woman yourself.

7 million people will lead to all sorts of random outcomes unrelated to the vaccine.  Women have these issues all the time, caused by BC, smoking, and lots of other problems.  I'm not sure what any of it means yet.  Second, this woman isn't a physician or a scientist of any type.  She's just reporting what she is hearing and it's anecdotal, and very possibly completely random.  

I don't disagree with any of this.  And to circle all the way back around, is it not safe for someone to have vaccine hesitancies?  After the J&J news today, I think it absolutely is yet I have been called "selfish" among other things around here.  

I don't have a problem with a person deciding not to get the vaccine.  I have more of a problem with someone spreading false and deceptive information to influence others not to get the vaccine.  And for you, I had a problem with your herd immunity position.  

I am 100% certain that every one of us will take actions today with a higher likelihood  of death or serious injury than 1 in 1,000,000, without even a second thought, yet many will be up in arms about potential risks related to vaccination. People are inherently illogical and have a very hard time assessing risk accurately. I do view an unwillingness to take that tiny, tiny risk in order to improve public health as selfish, when people are taking much higher risks for things they want to do. 

For a bit of perspective, building code in Ontario is designed to over-engineer so that the risk of structural failure within its usable life is approximately 1 in 2,000,000, which we were taught is roughly equivalent to the suggested risk of falling and dying in a bathtub in one's lifetime. These are risks which reasonable people accept.

mickeyrat

 

https://news.yahoo.com/johnson-johnson-blood-clot-risk-compared-common-medications-experts-175644988.html

The Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine has a 0.00009 percent risk of blood clots. With other common medications, the risk is greater.

People across the U.S. woke up to news on Tuesday that the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are recommending a “pause” in the use of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine after it was linked to a rare form of blood clots.

There have been six reported cases of a condition called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) — a type of blood clot in the brain that can lead to a stroke — out of the more than 6.8 million doses of the vaccine that have been administered in the U.S., according to a joint statement from the agencies. All six cases happened in women between the ages of 18 and 48, with symptoms developing six to 13 days after they were vaccinated.

The CDC plans to have a meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices on Wednesday to review the cases, and the FDA will review that analysis. Until then, the agencies say that they are recommending “a pause in the use of this vaccine out of an abundance of caution.” 

Several states, including New York, New Jersey, Florida and Michigan, are following the agencies’ recommendation. According to the CDC, more than 74 million Americans are fully vaccinated, with the majority receiving either the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (36,194,022) or the Moderna vaccine (31,014,082). 

Some people have taken to social media claiming that the risk of blood clots is much greater with other medications, including birth control.

While experts say that there are valid concerns about a possible link between CVST and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, they also agree that some other medications come with a chance of developing the disorder — and some with a higher risk than the possible 0.00009 percent risk presented by this particular vaccine.

“For many medications that we use commonly, the risk of serious side effects is much greater than one in a million,” Dr. Martin J. Blaser, director of the Center for Advanced Biotechnology and Medicine at Rutgers University, tells Yahoo Life.

But what are those medications, exactly? Here’s a breakdown.

What other medications can cause CVST?

CVST is rare overall — it affects about 5 in 1 million people each year, according to Cedars-Sinai. In general, though, “drugs that can cause blood clots are all medications that can do this,” Jamie Alan, assistant professor of pharmacology at Michigan State University, tells Yahoo Life.

Those can include:

· Oral contraceptives. The exact risk varies by type, but “oral contraceptives containing estrogen, or any estrogen-containing product” can raise the risk of CVST, Alan says. One meta-analysis of 861 studies on CVST found that the risk of developing the condition is 7.59 times higher in women who are taking oral contraceptives than in those who are not taking the pills.

· Testosterone supplementation. Excess testosterone in the body is “converted to estrogen, so testosterone supplementation also carries a risk of CVST,” Alan says. This is a rare complication, but it can happen. A 2019 case report details the story of a 33-year-old man who experienced CVST after taking testosterone replacement therapy as prescribed by his doctor.

· Warfarin. This medication, which is commonly used to treat and prevent blood clots, comes with an increased risk of CVST within the first few days of its use, Alan says.

· Heparin. This medication is also used to prevent blood clots. One study found that up to 9 percent of patients who are treated with it had issues with brain bleeding afterward. “Heparin increases the risk of CVST, but we still use it,” Dr. Thomas Russo, professor and chief of infectious disease at the University at Buffalo in New York, tells Yahoo Life. “All physicians have seen this syndrome.”

Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) like aspirin and ibuprofen also come with an increased risk of blood clots and brain bleeding, and not just CVST either, Alan points out.

Overall, CVST “isn’t very common, but when this occurs, it can be traumatic,” Alan says.

Experts stress that the associated risk of CVST from the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is incredibly low. 

“People have forgotten that COVID-19 is the clear and present danger,” infectious disease expert Dr. Amesh Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, tells Yahoo Life. “COVID-19 can cause blood clots and kill you. The world needs to get a lot better at risk-benefit calculation.”

Blaser stresses that CVST seems to be a “very, very rare complication” of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine — if the link is determined through more analysis. “It’s reasonable to pause and look at the data,” he says.

Russo says that the news shouldn’t keep people from getting vaccinated against COVID-19. “There is not a 100 percent cause-and-effect situation with CVST and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, but I’m concerned that this association will prove to be real,” he says. “In the meantime, there are two other very good vaccines in the mix.”

bbiggs

I think it’s disingenuous to label someone as “selfish” for having concerns over a vaccine that has been administered in large scale for a short few months.  If that concerned person is spreading misinformation, that’s one thing, but to have concern is completely legitimate.  It would be selfish (in my opinion) to refuse a vaccine for polio, for example, as we know the safety of it after decades of use. Decades and months are not the same. I’m someone that has received all “standard” vaccines, as have my children.  I’ll very likely end up getting the vaccine, but it doesn’t mean I can’t have concerns over it without being selfish. 

gvn2fly1421

bbiggs said:

I think it’s disingenuous to label someone as “selfish” for having concerns over a vaccine that has been administered in large scale for a short few months.  If that concerned person is spreading misinformation, that’s one thing, but to have concern is completely legitimate.  It would be selfish (in my opinion) to refuse a vaccine for polio, for example, as we know the safety of it after decades of use. Decades and months are not the same. I’m someone that has received all “standard” vaccines, as have my children.  I’ll very likely end up getting the vaccine, but it doesn’t mean I can’t have concerns over it without being selfish. 

I agree with all of this, and ultimately, may end up getting the vaccine but it will not be anytime soon.

To Mickey, mrussel, and others, if the chances of blood clots or other events are so low in the J&J vaccine and other drugs offer greater chances of side effects (we have all seen the drug commercials which lists side effects are 15 seconds), why are they stopping the J&J now?  This is not a gotcha or anything, just trying to come up with a reason.

mickeyrat

stated reason was to study the problem during this recommended PAUSE.

note, its recommended. not mandated. 9 million doses in the pipeline.

it also gives end recipients a more informed choice. surely a good thing, no?

mickeyrat

Poncier said:

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

This has a good summary.  They have not determined if the link is to oral contraceptives.  

https://news.trust.org/item/20210413134718-jugko

I thought that you couldn't get pregnant from oral?

Don't believe everything the guys tell you at truck stops.

why, those motherfuckers.....

*climbs back into rig.

HughFreakingDillon

bbiggs said:

I think it’s disingenuous to label someone as “selfish” for having concerns over a vaccine that has been administered in large scale for a short few months.  If that concerned person is spreading misinformation, that’s one thing, but to have concern is completely legitimate.  It would be selfish (in my opinion) to refuse a vaccine for polio, for example, as we know the safety of it after decades of use. Decades and months are not the same. I’m someone that has received all “standard” vaccines, as have my children.  I’ll very likely end up getting the vaccine, but it doesn’t mean I can’t have concerns over it without being selfish. 

one of the bigger problems, as i see it, is that many of those that are concerned are largely so because they believe, then spread, said misinformation. 

FiveBelow

Does anyone with knowledge of the vaccine process know when or if the "emergency use authorization" tag will be removed?  

mrussel1

gvn2fly1421 said:

bbiggs said:

I think it’s disingenuous to label someone as “selfish” for having concerns over a vaccine that has been administered in large scale for a short few months.  If that concerned person is spreading misinformation, that’s one thing, but to have concern is completely legitimate.  It would be selfish (in my opinion) to refuse a vaccine for polio, for example, as we know the safety of it after decades of use. Decades and months are not the same. I’m someone that has received all “standard” vaccines, as have my children.  I’ll very likely end up getting the vaccine, but it doesn’t mean I can’t have concerns over it without being selfish. 

I agree with all of this, and ultimately, may end up getting the vaccine but it will not be anytime soon.

To Mickey, mrussel, and others, if the chances of blood clots or other events are so low in the J&J vaccine and other drugs offer greater chances of side effects (we have all seen the drug commercials which lists side effects are 15 seconds), why are they stopping the J&J now?  This is not a gotcha or anything, just trying to come up with a reason.

My guess is so they can evaluate and correlate medications adn other ailments that the people had.  So if it's oral contraceptives, then maybe the CDC instructs women on OCs to get the Phizer or whatever.  it's a perfectly reasonable response, to this layman.