It is interesting. I agree with the main premise of this post, that going with the beyond meat is better for the environment, but certainly not better for health. That is straight up processed food. Massive amount of sodium, more fat, less protein, etc... and contains stuff not found in my kitchen.
Interesting also that the CEO of Whole Foods has chimed in since Whole Foods was Beyond's big start:
Whole Foods CEO on plant-based meat boom: Good for the environment but not for your health According to the article, here are the environmental benefits: According to a study commissioned by Beyond Meat with the Center for Sustainable Systems at the University of Michigan, a plant-based burger generates 90% less greenhouse gas emissions, requires 45% less energy, has 99% less impact on water scarcity, and 93% less impact on land use than a ¼ pound of traditional U.S. beef.
Those are significant numbers. But I'm just not particularly interested in massively processed foods these days. I enjoy cooking with real ingredients and rarely make anything from a box, can or jar anymore. I don't mind the Beyond Burger, but certainly wouldn't make it a regular part of my diet.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
so do vegans think that other carnivorous/omnivorous animals are assholes?
plants actually feel sensations too. we don't know if they feel pain. but we don't know that they don't.
so maybe vegans should switch to an all-tofu diet until then.
Tofu is made from soy beans and believe me, soy beans are very radical. Have you never seen those "Soy Beans of the World, Unite!" placards?
and the scale required means asn awful lot of wild animals get killed during harvest
I didn't know soy bean have scale. We had a house plant that did. It finally had to go in the compost.
by scale I meant the necessary volume required.....
Ahh, I see. Of course, no matter what we eat, with 7.7 billion of us, the outlook for other life is not so good. But as always, nature bats last.
On the subject of tofu and all things soy, I've read that it not good for men to eat a lot of soy beans and related products. Something to do with chemical imbalances or hormones. I'll have to look that up again.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It doesn't actually have any preservatives in it, unless you are calling vinegar (acetic acid) a preservative.
I am suspicious of the comparison with 96% lean ground beef, since burgers aren't made with 96% lean ground beef as they turn out too dry. A more realistic comparison with the beef used in hamburgers (typically 80%) would give roughly equivalent amounts of fat.
I don't have a problem with any of the ingredients listed above, but I'm curious about the fact that those are not the ingredients listed on the the Beyond Burger website. Here are the listed ingredients:
Water, Pea Protein Isolate*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Cocoa Butter, Mung Bean Protein, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Pomegranate Fruit Powder, Beet Juice Extract (for color)
I don't have a problem with any of them, either.
Shocking to think that a pro-beef marketing organization would present biased information about a meat alternative.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
It is interesting. I agree with the main premise of this post, that going with the beyond meat is better for the environment, but certainly not better for health. That is straight up processed food. Massive amount of sodium, more fat, less protein, etc... and contains stuff not found in my kitchen.
Interesting also that the CEO of Whole Foods has chimed in since Whole Foods was Beyond's big start:
Whole Foods CEO on plant-based meat boom: Good for the environment but not for your health According to the article, here are the environmental benefits: According to a study commissioned by Beyond Meat with the Center for Sustainable Systems at the University of Michigan, a plant-based burger generates 90% less greenhouse gas emissions, requires 45% less energy, has 99% less impact on water scarcity, and 93% less impact on land use than a ¼ pound of traditional U.S. beef.
Those are significant numbers. But I'm just not particularly interested in massively processed foods these days. I enjoy cooking with real ingredients and rarely make anything from a box, can or jar anymore. I don't mind the Beyond Burger, but certainly wouldn't make it a regular part of my diet.
I agree that it's probably not meant to be a regular part of anyone's diet, just like beef burgers shouldn't be a regular part of anyone's diet.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
i've heard the beyond burgers are awesome. still haven't had one, but i've never heard one complaint about them. the amount of sodium is a bit alarming though.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
edited August 2019
What is it anyway with these phony meatless meat products? I think it's kind of sad, maybe even pathetic, that we in the west are so enamored with our burgers that we have to make Fake Burgers. I'll admit I've eaten plenty of beef, turkey and chicken burgers in my life, but it's not something I do very often any more. I mean, think about it. We start with some ground up meat that unless we've ground it ourselves, we have no idea what floor sweeping ended up in the meat. And then, unless we have organic, non-GMO bread (and even a lot of that is questionable unless we make the bread ourselves), we slap that artery hardening fried ground dead animal between two precisely sliced layers of carb laden flour product, add some wimpy nearly nutrient-free iceberg lettuce, squeeze out a dab of tomato catsup that has zero nutritional benefits, maybe add a slice of cheese made from same dead animal's baby's milk, and call that a "meal"?
And then we go vegetarian and try to imitate that? We are such a strange species!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What is it anyway with these phony meatless meat products? I think it's kind of sad, maybe even pathetic, that we in the west are so enamored with our burgers that we have to make Fake Burgers. I'll admit I've eaten plenty of beef, turkey and chicken burgers in my life, but it's not something I do very often any more. I mean, think about it. We start with some ground up meat that unless we've ground it ourselves, we have no idea what floor sweeping ended up in the meat. And then, unless we have organic, non-GMO bread (and even a lot of that is questionable unless we make the bread ourselves), we slap that artery hardening fried ground dead animal between two precisely sliced layers of carb laden flour product, add some wimpy nearly nutrient-free iceberg lettuce, squeeze out a dab of tomato catsup that has zero nutritional benefits, maybe add a slice of cheese made from same dead animal's baby's milk, and call that a "meal"?
And then we go vegetarian and try to imitate that? We are such a strange species!
because at some point in our evolution eating went from survival to enjoyment. in the last century I'm guessing.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
i've heard the beyond burgers are awesome. still haven't had one, but i've never heard one complaint about them. the amount of sodium is a bit alarming though.
Yes, and I hope they look at reducing it.
Another thing to bear in mind is that the comparison was made with beef with nothing added to it, which isn't the way most burgers are served. Restaurants will always add salt, and most home cooks do as well.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
What is it anyway with these phony meatless meat products? I think it's kind of sad, maybe even pathetic, that we in the west are so enamored with our burgers that we have to make Fake Burgers. I'll admit I've eaten plenty of beef, turkey and chicken burgers in my life, but it's not something I do very often any more. I mean, think about it. We start with some ground up meat that unless we've ground it ourselves, we have no idea what floor sweeping ended up in the meat. And then, unless we have organic, non-GMO bread (and even a lot of that is questionable unless we make the bread ourselves), we slap that artery hardening fried ground dead animal between two precisely sliced layers of carb laden flour product, add some wimpy nearly nutrient-free iceberg lettuce, squeeze out a dab of tomato catsup that has zero nutritional benefits, maybe add a slice of cheese made from same dead animal's baby's milk, and call that a "meal"?
And then we go vegetarian and try to imitate that? We are such a strange species!
because at some point in our evolution eating went from survival to enjoyment. in the last century I'm guessing.
Good point!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
No way I could be vegan, I would miss cheese too much.
My brother's a realistic vegan and will treat himself every now and then to something he misses. Cheese (which was once a favourite with as much passion as what you're describing) isn't even on that list for him anymore. I know he's not making it up because there are other things I can hand him that he absolutely will cheat with, no questions asked.
I never understood why cheese is on the vegan no no list since the animal isn't being killed.
Isn’t that the difference between vegan and vegetarian? And when did vegan become more popular than vegetarian? I remember growing up rarely hearing about vegan, now it’s on every menu. I don’t necessarily agree with all the points for being vegetarian (although I know as a country we should cut back on our meat intake) but at least I understand the purpose. But vegan doesn’t make sense to me, I don’t understand the purpose of avoiding all animal products, what’s the harm in milk and cheese and things that don’t harm animals like you said. (Yes, I realize not every dairy farm treats animals well, but I’m sure there’s local ones that do.) And that was a real question, not just a comment. Would be interested why someone thinks a balanced diet that includes dairy is not good. It’s also a pet peeve when people claim to be vegan, but then make an exception for their latte at Starbucks. Just admit you’re not vegan then! It’s okay.
Post edited by mace1229 on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
No way I could be vegan, I would miss cheese too much.
My brother's a realistic vegan and will treat himself every now and then to something he misses. Cheese (which was once a favourite with as much passion as what you're describing) isn't even on that list for him anymore. I know he's not making it up because there are other things I can hand him that he absolutely will cheat with, no questions asked.
I never understood why cheese is on the vegan no no list since the animal isn't being killed.
Isn’t that the difference between vegan and vegetarian? And when did vegan become more popular than vegetarian? I remember growing up rarely hearing about vegan, now it’s on every menu. I don’t necessarily agree with all the points for being vegetarian (although I know as a country we should cut back on our meat intake) but at least I understand the purpose. But vegan doesn’t make sense to me, I don’t understand the purpose of avoiding all animal products, what’s the harm in milk and cheese and things that don’t harm animals like you said. (Yes, I realize not every dairy farm treats animals well, but I’m sure there’s local ones that do.) And that was a real question, not just a comment. Would be interested why someone thinks a balanced diet that includes dairy is not good. It’s also a pet peeve when people claim to be vegan, but then make an exception for their latte at Starbucks. Just admit you’re not vegan then! It’s okay.
I was curious about that too, Mace, so I poked around and found this article. The argument seems to me, someone who admittedly eats dairy, eggs, and small amounts of meat, to present some thoughts that are pretty hard to argue. I thinks it's worth looking at.
Fact: Much of the beef produced in South America comes from logged or burned rain forest.
Fact: Much of the beef consumed in the U.S. and elsewhere comes from South America.
Fact: Many of the fires burning in the Amazon are a result of the above.
We would be smart to cut back on the beef, especially when we don't know where it comes from.
Maybe not that exact example with Starbucks, but just last week bbq was brought it at work and a I saw a teacher who said she was vegetarian eating it all. Turns out she just doesn’t eat red meat, but calls herself vegetarian. I do see examples like that a lot, pretty sure I’ve seen vegans eat pizza with cheese and justify why that doesn’t count. Probably more with vegetarians than vegans though, I’ve met him plenty of vegetarians who still eat chicken and fish-all the meat they actually like. It isn’t a big deal, it’s just funny to me and makes me laugh a little inside. I never say anything to them. Thanks for sharing that link, I’ll have to read it later.
Fact: Much of the beef produced in South America comes from logged or burned rain forest.
Fact: Much of the beef consumed in the U.S. and elsewhere comes from South America.
Fact: Many of the fires burning in the Amazon are a result of the above.
We would be smart to cut back on the beef, especially when we don't know where it comes from.
Maybe not that exact example with Starbucks, but just last week bbq was brought it at work and a I saw a teacher who said she was vegetarian eating it all. Turns out she just doesn’t eat red meat, but calls herself vegetarian. I do see examples like that a lot, pretty sure I’ve seen vegans eat pizza with cheese and justify why that doesn’t count. Probably more with vegetarians than vegans though, I’ve met him plenty of vegetarians who still eat chicken and fish-all the meat they actually like. It isn’t a big deal, it’s just funny to me and makes me laugh a little inside. I never say anything to them. Thanks for sharing that link, I’ll have to read it later.
there are many different types of vegetarians, some that don't eat meat, some that don't eat red meat, etc, so it's most likely that they are just saying "vegetarian" instead of the full term to avoid the explanation and ensuing conversation and potential debate that would surely follow.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Fact: Much of the beef produced in South America comes from logged or burned rain forest.
Fact: Much of the beef consumed in the U.S. and elsewhere comes from South America.
Fact: Many of the fires burning in the Amazon are a result of the above.
We would be smart to cut back on the beef, especially when we don't know where it comes from.
Maybe not that exact example with Starbucks, but just last week bbq was brought it at work and a I saw a teacher who said she was vegetarian eating it all. Turns out she just doesn’t eat red meat, but calls herself vegetarian. I do see examples like that a lot, pretty sure I’ve seen vegans eat pizza with cheese and justify why that doesn’t count. Probably more with vegetarians than vegans though, I’ve met him plenty of vegetarians who still eat chicken and fish-all the meat they actually like. It isn’t a big deal, it’s just funny to me and makes me laugh a little inside. I never say anything to them. Thanks for sharing that link, I’ll have to read it later.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Fact: Much of the beef produced in South America comes from logged or burned rain forest.
Fact: Much of the beef consumed in the U.S. and elsewhere comes from South America.
Fact: Many of the fires burning in the Amazon are a result of the above.
We would be smart to cut back on the beef, especially when we don't know where it comes from.
Maybe not that exact example with Starbucks, but just last week bbq was brought it at work and a I saw a teacher who said she was vegetarian eating it all. Turns out she just doesn’t eat red meat, but calls herself vegetarian. I do see examples like that a lot, pretty sure I’ve seen vegans eat pizza with cheese and justify why that doesn’t count. Probably more with vegetarians than vegans though, I’ve met him plenty of vegetarians who still eat chicken and fish-all the meat they actually like. It isn’t a big deal, it’s just funny to me and makes me laugh a little inside. I never say anything to them. Thanks for sharing that link, I’ll have to read it later.
Kind of like people who listen to Nickleback calling themselves "music fans".
Haha, sorry, couldn't resist.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Fact: Much of the beef produced in South America comes from logged or burned rain forest.
Fact: Much of the beef consumed in the U.S. and elsewhere comes from South America.
Fact: Many of the fires burning in the Amazon are a result of the above.
We would be smart to cut back on the beef, especially when we don't know where it comes from.
Maybe not that exact example with Starbucks, but just last week bbq was brought it at work and a I saw a teacher who said she was vegetarian eating it all. Turns out she just doesn’t eat red meat, but calls herself vegetarian. I do see examples like that a lot, pretty sure I’ve seen vegans eat pizza with cheese and justify why that doesn’t count. Probably more with vegetarians than vegans though, I’ve met him plenty of vegetarians who still eat chicken and fish-all the meat they actually like. It isn’t a big deal, it’s just funny to me and makes me laugh a little inside. I never say anything to them. Thanks for sharing that link, I’ll have to read it later.
Kind of like people who listen to Nickleback calling themselves "music fans".
Haha, sorry, couldn't resist.
and to think I used to think Bryan Adams was our worst export. Now we have nicklesack and bieber.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Fact: Much of the beef produced in South America comes from logged or burned rain forest.
Fact: Much of the beef consumed in the U.S. and elsewhere comes from South America.
Fact: Many of the fires burning in the Amazon are a result of the above.
We would be smart to cut back on the beef, especially when we don't know where it comes from.
Maybe not that exact example with Starbucks, but just last week bbq was brought it at work and a I saw a teacher who said she was vegetarian eating it all. Turns out she just doesn’t eat red meat, but calls herself vegetarian. I do see examples like that a lot, pretty sure I’ve seen vegans eat pizza with cheese and justify why that doesn’t count. Probably more with vegetarians than vegans though, I’ve met him plenty of vegetarians who still eat chicken and fish-all the meat they actually like. It isn’t a big deal, it’s just funny to me and makes me laugh a little inside. I never say anything to them. Thanks for sharing that link, I’ll have to read it later.
there are many different types of vegetarians, some that don't eat meat, some that don't eat red meat, etc, so it's most likely that they are just saying "vegetarian" instead of the full term to avoid the explanation and ensuing conversation and potential debate that would surely follow.
I was curious so I Googled it. According to wikipedia, all forms of "true" vegetarians do not eat any meat. The other forms may exclude eggs, dairy products, etc and be a cross between a vegan and vegetarian. Forms of vegetarians that do include meat were called semi or partial-vegetarian. Maybe others use that term more loosely than I do, but when someone says they are vegetarian to me that means they do not eat any meat. I also know people who don't eat red meat and don't claim to be a vegetarian, they just say "I don't eat red meat." I believe I would be in the majority that I find it odd seeing someone eat chicken who claims to be a vegetarian, but maybe not. To mean that seems more confusing.
All the titles with the label "vegetarian" in it do not consume any meat. I would think using the label "vegetarian" when you just don't eat red meat would create more confusion. I still find it misleading someone would call themselves a vegetarian but still eat chicken or seafood. Like I said, I don't call them out on it, just seems "fishy" to me. So is there a label for fish and poultry? seems like they have to pick one or the other to have any label. Most people I know who eat chicken will also eat fish, unless they just don't like the taste.
Comments
Interesting also that the CEO of Whole Foods has chimed in since Whole Foods was Beyond's big start:
According to the article, here are the environmental benefits:
According to a study commissioned by Beyond Meat with the Center for Sustainable Systems at the University of Michigan, a plant-based burger generates 90% less greenhouse gas emissions, requires 45% less energy, has 99% less impact on water scarcity, and 93% less impact on land use than a ¼ pound of traditional U.S. beef.
Those are significant numbers. But I'm just not particularly interested in massively processed foods these days. I enjoy cooking with real ingredients and rarely make anything from a box, can or jar anymore. I don't mind the Beyond Burger, but certainly wouldn't make it a regular part of my diet.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It doesn't actually have any preservatives in it, unless you are calling vinegar (acetic acid) a preservative.
I am suspicious of the comparison with 96% lean ground beef, since burgers aren't made with 96% lean ground beef as they turn out too dry. A more realistic comparison with the beef used in hamburgers (typically 80%) would give roughly equivalent amounts of fat.
I don't have a problem with any of the ingredients listed above, but I'm curious about the fact that those are not the ingredients listed on the the Beyond Burger website. Here are the listed ingredients:
Water, Pea Protein Isolate*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Cocoa Butter, Mung Bean Protein, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Pomegranate Fruit Powder, Beet Juice Extract (for color)
I don't have a problem with any of them, either.
Shocking to think that a pro-beef marketing organization would present biased information about a meat alternative.
I agree that it's probably not meant to be a regular part of anyone's diet, just like beef burgers shouldn't be a regular part of anyone's diet.
and those beyond burgers are nasty looking. Can I pay for a beyond meat product with beyond money?
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-EV 8/14/93
Yes, and I hope they look at reducing it.
Another thing to bear in mind is that the comparison was made with beef with nothing added to it, which isn't the way most burgers are served. Restaurants will always add salt, and most home cooks do as well.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
And when did vegan become more popular than vegetarian? I remember growing up rarely hearing about vegan, now it’s on every menu.
I don’t necessarily agree with all the points for being vegetarian (although I know as a country we should cut back on our meat intake) but at least I understand the purpose. But vegan doesn’t make sense to me, I don’t understand the purpose of avoiding all animal products, what’s the harm in milk and cheese and things that don’t harm animals like you said. (Yes, I realize not every dairy farm treats animals well, but I’m sure there’s local ones that do.) And that was a real question, not just a comment. Would be interested why someone thinks a balanced diet that includes dairy is not good.
It’s also a pet peeve when people claim to be vegan, but then make an exception for their latte at Starbucks. Just admit you’re not vegan then! It’s okay.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I do see examples like that a lot, pretty sure I’ve seen vegans eat pizza with cheese and justify why that doesn’t count. Probably more with vegetarians than vegans though, I’ve met him plenty of vegetarians who still eat chicken and fish-all the meat they actually like. It isn’t a big deal, it’s just funny to me and makes me laugh a little inside. I never say anything to them.
Thanks for sharing that link, I’ll have to read it later.
-EV 8/14/93
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-EV 8/14/93
I believe I would be in the majority that I find it odd seeing someone eat chicken who claims to be a vegetarian, but maybe not. To mean that seems more confusing.
-EV 8/14/93
I'll just go with, "I eat, therefore I am."
-EV 8/14/93
So is there a label for fish and poultry? seems like they have to pick one or the other to have any label. Most people I know who eat chicken will also eat fish, unless they just don't like the taste.