I was talking to a co worker about this, telling him i have always considered going meatless, for the environment and also ethical reasons. he mentioned that, unfortunately it’s not as a simple as eating less meat as the media makes it out to be.
• Without cows we’d lose our grass lands. Unfortunately we killed all our other grazing animals (bison, buffalo)
• Agriculture as a whole removes more and more soil every year (we only have 60 years of top soil left) and we need grazing animals to help replenish
thoughts?
This would assume responsible cattle production, not feedlot production, which I believe is the vast majority of beef cattle. The volume of beef eaten now could not be sustained by grazing grasslands.
Every action has an impact on the environment, but some actions have less of an impact. It's very difficult to truthfully argue that major meat production has less of an impact than non-meat production.
yes, I don't know much of anything about this, so I'm trying to gather information. when I mentioned to him my reasons for considering stopping meat consumption, he did say the only way to really continue eating meat sustainably is to eat only meat from holistic regenerative farmers. I don't even know what that is. LOL
I was talking to a co worker about this, telling him i have always considered going meatless, for the environment and also ethical reasons. he mentioned that, unfortunately it’s not as a simple as eating less meat as the media makes it out to be.
• Without cows we’d lose our grass lands. Unfortunately we killed all our other grazing animals (bison, buffalo)
• Agriculture as a whole removes more and more soil every year (we only have 60 years of top soil left) and we need grazing animals to help replenish
thoughts?
This would assume responsible cattle production, not feedlot production, which I believe is the vast majority of beef cattle. The volume of beef eaten now could not be sustained by grazing grasslands.
Every action has an impact on the environment, but some actions have less of an impact. It's very difficult to truthfully argue that major meat production has less of an impact than non-meat production.
There are good and bad practices in both realms. Most types of farming (non-meat production) takes water, land, minerals, and destroys the habitats of many native animals to varying extents. In fact, the dust bowl was due to gross over farming (non-meat). I think the answer lies with more regulations to force the world to utilize the least harmful types of farming/ranching instead of trying to get everyone on board with a non-meat diet. There are responsible and irresponsible producers in both realms and I believe corporate farms/ranches are the ones responsible for poor practices and need harsher regulations. To say “all meat eaters are wrong and all vegans are right” is just wrong.
I often think about the impact of 7 billion people relying on plants alone for sustenance. Such a massive shift is very hard to quantify, and I have deep suspicions about the unintended consequences that would arise. It is a fact, however, that less meat consumption would be better for the planet itself, our species, and every other species on the planet.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts, making him directly responsible for more meat eating?
I often think about the impact of 7 billion people relying on plants alone for sustenance. Such a massive shift is very hard to quantify, and I have deep suspicions about the unintended consequences that would arise. It is a fact, however, that less meat consumption would be better for the planet itself, our species, and every other species on the planet.
Billions of people in the world already live on a completely or almost completely plant based diet. Yes, there will be impacts if we make this massive shift, but would they be worse than the impacts we already have from increasing meat production around the world?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts...
You don't irritate me- I don't take this kind of thing that seriously. And both you guys do the same bullshit, so yeah, it goes both ways. This place becomes a joke when these kids of petty quarrels going on and on.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts...
You don't irritate me- I don't take this kind of thing that seriously. And both you guys do the same bullshit, so yeah, it goes both ways. This place becomes a joke when these kids of petty quarrels going on and on.
Well, I do agree that this place became a joke a long time ago and it really is hard to take things seriously here anymore, but it is a decent waste of time when you need it.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts...
You don't irritate me- I don't take this kind of thing that seriously. And both you guys do the same bullshit, so yeah, it goes both ways. This place becomes a joke when these kids of petty quarrels going on and on.
Well, I do agree that this place became a joke a long time ago and it really is hard to take things seriously here anymore, but it is a decent waste of time when you need it.
LOL, can't argue that.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I often think about the impact of 7 billion people relying on plants alone for sustenance. Such a massive shift is very hard to quantify, and I have deep suspicions about the unintended consequences that would arise. It is a fact, however, that less meat consumption would be better for the planet itself, our species, and every other species on the planet.
Billions of people in the world already live on a completely or almost completely plant based diet. Yes, there will be impacts if we make this massive shift, but would they be worse than the impacts we already have from increasing meat production around the world?
I would be surprised if it was really billions.
No, I don't really think the impacts would be worse, but I do think its entirely possible that they could be. It's worth finding out, for sure.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
I often think about the impact of 7 billion people relying on plants alone for sustenance. Such a massive shift is very hard to quantify, and I have deep suspicions about the unintended consequences that would arise. It is a fact, however, that less meat consumption would be better for the planet itself, our species, and every other species on the planet.
Billions of people in the world already live on a completely or almost completely plant based diet. Yes, there will be impacts if we make this massive shift, but would they be worse than the impacts we already have from increasing meat production around the world?
I would be surprised if it was really billions.
No, I don't really think the impacts would be worse, but I do think its entirely possible that they could be. It's worth finding out, for sure.
I tried to look up what percentage of the world's population is vegetarian and got between 25% and 31% which, if so, would be between 1.9 and 2.39 billion people, so probably at least a couple billion. That doesn't surprise me, all things considered.
I often think about the impact of 7 billion people relying on plants alone for sustenance. Such a massive shift is very hard to quantify, and I have deep suspicions about the unintended consequences that would arise. It is a fact, however, that less meat consumption would be better for the planet itself, our species, and every other species on the planet.
Billions of people in the world already live on a completely or almost completely plant based diet. Yes, there will be impacts if we make this massive shift, but would they be worse than the impacts we already have from increasing meat production around the world?
I would think those impacts would be for the good rather than detrimental. Animal production would have to change over to plant crops, but that could be done gradually and the jobs would last longer. With 7.7 billion people on the planet, meat production can't do on forever with those numbers.
If the world had a reasonable number of humans- the ideal being something like 1.5 to 2 billion- eating meat would not be nearly as big an impact on the planet. We're headed toward 10 billion by around 2050 which is not that far off. And of course there is no way that many people can eat meat. But that many people will cause a who litany of problems.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
my parents' 50th anniversary is today. we were looking at one of those "in 1969" type of pictures, and the population of the earth just 50 years ago was a staggeringly much lower 3.61 billion. LESS THAN HALF what it is today. that's insane.
Flight Risk out NOW!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
my parents' 50th anniversary is today. we were looking at one of those "in 1969" type of pictures, and the population of the earth just 50 years ago was a staggeringly much lower 3.61 billion. LESS THAN HALF what it is today. that's insane.
It is crazy, for sure. Living to see the strain on the planet those numbers have added is mentally painful. I've never learned to deal well with that. Someone should take me out to pasture and shoot me.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts...
You don't irritate me- I don't take this kind of thing that seriously. And both you guys do the same bullshit, so yeah, it goes both ways. This place becomes a joke when these kids of petty quarrels going on and on.
Hahahaha more “both sides” crap.
Its all 1 poster. Every time. And yet Kay finds the time to earn me for way less crap. I have no sympathy for that poster nor anyone that defends his crap.
I often think about the impact of 7 billion people relying on plants alone for sustenance. Such a massive shift is very hard to quantify, and I have deep suspicions about the unintended consequences that would arise. It is a fact, however, that less meat consumption would be better for the planet itself, our species, and every other species on the planet.
Billions of people in the world already live on a completely or almost completely plant based diet. Yes, there will be impacts if we make this massive shift, but would they be worse than the impacts we already have from increasing meat production around the world?
I would be surprised if it was really billions.
No, I don't really think the impacts would be worse, but I do think its entirely possible that they could be. It's worth finding out, for sure.
How many Hindus, Jains, and Buddhists are in the world?
Not to mention those who are vegetarian by choice, rather than cultural expectations.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts...
You don't irritate me- I don't take this kind of thing that seriously. And both you guys do the same bullshit, so yeah, it goes both ways. This place becomes a joke when these kids of petty quarrels going on and on.
Hahahaha more “both sides” crap.
Its all 1 poster. Every time. And yet Kay finds the time to earn me for way less crap. I have no sympathy for that poster nor anyone that defends his crap.
You don't think posting pictures of steaks on every vegetarian/vegan thread isn't perpetuating the bullshit? And who the hell is "Kay"?
Hahaha back at ya, pal!
FOOD FIGHT!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts...
You don't irritate me- I don't take this kind of thing that seriously. And both you guys do the same bullshit, so yeah, it goes both ways. This place becomes a joke when these kids of petty quarrels going on and on.
Hahahaha more “both sides” crap.
Its all 1 poster. Every time. And yet Kay finds the time to earn me for way less crap. I have no sympathy for that poster nor anyone that defends his crap.
You don't think posting pictures of steaks on every vegetarian/vegan thread isn't perpetuating the bullshit? And who the hell is "Kay"?
Hahaha back at ya, pal!
FOOD FIGHT!
Who exactly has done that? I threatened to today and did in this one thread as a response to the bullshit, but have not done that as of yet on “all vegan/vegetarian” threads. It is tempting, though.
Call me when you find a great “beyond” version of this:
Stop it. The grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
I respect what you are trying to do Brian, but every thread where a “grown up” conversation is happening gets derailed by the creator of this thread...so kindly get off my ass or ignore me if I irritate you that much. Maybe if I grilled a pork chop for every gif or meme SC posts...
You don't irritate me- I don't take this kind of thing that seriously. And both you guys do the same bullshit, so yeah, it goes both ways. This place becomes a joke when these kids of petty quarrels going on and on.
Hahahaha more “both sides” crap.
Its all 1 poster. Every time. And yet Kay finds the time to earn me for way less crap. I have no sympathy for that poster nor anyone that defends his crap.
You don't think posting pictures of steaks on every vegetarian/vegan thread isn't perpetuating the bullshit? And who the hell is "Kay"?
Hahaha back at ya, pal!
FOOD FIGHT!
Apparently my iPhone changes lots is words on me
hippiemom = goodness
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,938
you've convinced me. I will now look for the 12 oz steak instead of the 16oz or more when at a restaurant. Same goes for the grocers....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
We are 7 out of 10 days no meat! Woot! That's our best run so far. It's a little difficult, if I'm being honest. And also, as I mentioned before, I am skeptical about the amount of vegetation involved and the planetary impact. I think that comes from my gardening. It takes so much effort to raise plants up by hand and the thought of growing enough to live on is staggering. The sheer number of beans it would take to sustain decent protein levels... I guess what bothers me is that your typical stereotypically smug vegan who judges people for not knowing the true story behind their meat has no fucking clue how much work goes into their produce, and how many fucking thousands of acres of beans they eat lol
The OP of this thread has no problem insulting meat-eaters. They have done that on many occasions here. And why do vegans need to tell people they are vegan? I do not go around advertising I like meat. My guess vegans who need to tell people they are vegans are just trying to come across as better than others...
Why should I have a problem insulting "meat-eaters"? You choose to support the slaughter of other living beings when you're out for lunch instead of picking the vegetarian/vegan option and with that not supporting that slaughter. The lack of empathy is apparent enough to warrant insult. It's disgusting.
And who are these vegans you are talking about that "need to tell people they are vegan"? Or is this just a stereotype you have built up in your angry little head?
(by the way, vegans are better than you in regards to this topic. Whether they tell you they are vegan or not )
You are the poster child for how not to promote a meatless lifestyle. Congrats. BTW, I had 2 racks of ribs in the smoker Sunday for 6 hours. They were fantastic. I don't believe I could have had the same level of satisfaction chewing on kale. But keep it up. Your compelling post above almost had me convinced that your way is the righteous way.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
www.headstonesband.com
To say “all meat eaters are wrong and all vegans are right” is just wrong.
It is a fact, however, that less meat consumption would be better for the planet itself, our species, and every other species on the planet.
No, I don't really think the impacts would be worse, but I do think its entirely possible that they could be. It's worth finding out, for sure.
www.headstonesband.com
Its all 1 poster. Every time. And yet Kay finds the time to earn me for way less crap. I have no sympathy for that poster nor anyone that defends his crap.
How many Hindus, Jains, and Buddhists are in the world?
Not to mention those who are vegetarian by choice, rather than cultural expectations.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
That's our best run so far. It's a little difficult, if I'm being honest.
And also, as I mentioned before, I am skeptical about the amount of vegetation involved and the planetary impact.
I think that comes from my gardening. It takes so much effort to raise plants up by hand and the thought of growing enough to live on is staggering. The sheer number of beans it would take to sustain decent protein levels...
I guess what bothers me is that your typical stereotypically smug vegan who judges people for not knowing the true story behind their meat has no fucking clue how much work goes into their produce, and how many fucking thousands of acres of beans they eat lol
plants actually feel sensations too. we don't know if they feel pain. but we don't know that they don't.
so maybe vegans should switch to an all-tofu diet until then.
www.headstonesband.com
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14