The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).

Lerxst1992

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

I think it got locked because an accusation was made about reading skills, not the topic? It’s difficult to know exactly why sometimes.

I was on the climate subreddit recently. A commenter claimed that China had its act together because they invested in high speed rails and the US doesn’t. That’s a stunning comment. China uses more coal than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet they have their act together . Coal is the absolute worst by far and can be and needs to be ended asap. Yet in America, it will not happen anytime soon.

That’s the problem with gathering enough political power to improve the climate situation. 45% of Americans are about to vote for a pro coal party**, and the rest of the country, even those supporting climate improvement, are split in so many differing directions, the movement has little political power. So un metaphorically we are walking full speed into a brick…house.


** come to think of it, aren’t there a bunch of moderates who no longer post on AMT? I recall a few of them didnt like the idea of Biden as president, probably due to his age. That’s part of the problem in the USA. Each party’s missions are lost to independents. They equate a presidents age as more important than preserving the climate. As well as tax cuts, and on and on.

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Jimmy Carter was right but you know, he was also a sissy.

Ah, but what a fine human being! 

The real stalwarts of environmentalism are the people we would have done best to listen to:

Edward Abbey
Wendell Berry
David Brower
Rachel Carson
Dave Foreman
Julia "Butterfly" Hill
Bill McKibben
Doug Peacock
Capt. Paul Watson
Terry Tempsest Williams

brianlux

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

I think it got locked because an accusation was made about reading skills, not the topic? It’s difficult to know exactly why sometimes.

I was on the climate subreddit recently. A commenter claimed that China had its act together because they invested in high speed rails and the US doesn’t. That’s a stunning comment. China uses more coal than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet they have their act together . Coal is the absolute worst by far and can be and needs to be ended asap. Yet in America, it will not happen anytime soon.

That’s the problem with gathering enough political power to improve the climate situation. 45% of Americans are about to vote for a pro coal party**, and the rest of the country, even those supporting climate improvement, are split in so many differing directions, the movement has little political power. So un metaphorically we are walking full speed into a brick…house.


** come to think of it, aren’t there a bunch of moderates who no longer post on AMT? I recall a few of them didnt like the idea of Biden as president, probably due to his age. That’s part of the problem in the USA. Each party’s missions are lost to independents. They equate a presidents age as more important than preserving the climate. As well as tax cuts, and on and on.

The problem for me with politics and environment is that it's metaphorically like this:

A building is burning out of control and the following groups react in this manner:

The radical right throws buckets of gasoline on the fire.

The moderate right throws cups of water on the fire.

The left throws buckets of water on the fire.

Environmental activists are racing in with hook and ladder fire engines but all of the above block the road.

Halifax2TheMax

brianlux said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Jimmy Carter was right but you know, he was also a sissy.

Ah, but what a fine human being! 

The real stalwarts of environmentalism are the people we would have done best to listen to:

Edward Abbey
Wendell Berry
David Brower
Rachel Carson
Dave Foreman
Julia "Butterfly" Hill
Bill McKibben
Doug Peacock
Capt. Paul Watson
Terry Tempsest Williams

What? No Thoreau?

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Jimmy Carter was right but you know, he was also a sissy.

Ah, but what a fine human being! 

The real stalwarts of environmentalism are the people we would have done best to listen to:

Edward Abbey
Wendell Berry
David Brower
Rachel Carson
Dave Foreman
Julia "Butterfly" Hill
Bill McKibben
Doug Peacock
Capt. Paul Watson
Terry Tempsest Williams

What? No Thoreau?

Good grief yes!  And John Muir, of course.  But I was thinking climate change and I'm sure either one of them addressed global warming.  Probably not Rachael Carson either, for that matter.  But all the others led the way regarding climate and lot enough people listened. James Hansen and Jacques Cousteau (and others, no doubt) ought to be on my list as well.

Lerxst1992

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

I think it got locked because an accusation was made about reading skills, not the topic? It’s difficult to know exactly why sometimes.

I was on the climate subreddit recently. A commenter claimed that China had its act together because they invested in high speed rails and the US doesn’t. That’s a stunning comment. China uses more coal than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet they have their act together . Coal is the absolute worst by far and can be and needs to be ended asap. Yet in America, it will not happen anytime soon.

That’s the problem with gathering enough political power to improve the climate situation. 45% of Americans are about to vote for a pro coal party**, and the rest of the country, even those supporting climate improvement, are split in so many differing directions, the movement has little political power. So un metaphorically we are walking full speed into a brick…house.


** come to think of it, aren’t there a bunch of moderates who no longer post on AMT? I recall a few of them didnt like the idea of Biden as president, probably due to his age. That’s part of the problem in the USA. Each party’s missions are lost to independents. They equate a presidents age as more important than preserving the climate. As well as tax cuts, and on and on.

The problem for me with politics and environment is that it's metaphorically like this:

A building is burning out of control and the following groups react in this manner:

The radical right throws buckets of gasoline on the fire.

The moderate right throws cups of water on the fire.

The left throws buckets of water on the fire.

Environmental activists are racing in with hook and ladder fire engines but all of the above block the road.

Excellent analogy. With the situation dire, and the left’s political power marginal at best, we need to be as strategic as possible, so a couple of well placed ice cubes?

By strategic I mean that we should be focusing on renewable energy changes with maximum impact. EVs are getting a tremendous amount of attention now, but how much help are they providing? Yes they use less energy, but in todays world they are powered mostly by fossil fuels. So maybe we should be focusing on something else until renewables can power EVs? To me that’s eliminating coal, because that is the dirtiest fuel by far in wide use. But, in the US, that’s a difficult path to take, Dems don’t seem so much focused on that, but it’s the best way to use our ice cube. It’s my soap box, and I climb it often. 

brianlux

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

I think it got locked because an accusation was made about reading skills, not the topic? It’s difficult to know exactly why sometimes.

I was on the climate subreddit recently. A commenter claimed that China had its act together because they invested in high speed rails and the US doesn’t. That’s a stunning comment. China uses more coal than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet they have their act together . Coal is the absolute worst by far and can be and needs to be ended asap. Yet in America, it will not happen anytime soon.

That’s the problem with gathering enough political power to improve the climate situation. 45% of Americans are about to vote for a pro coal party**, and the rest of the country, even those supporting climate improvement, are split in so many differing directions, the movement has little political power. So un metaphorically we are walking full speed into a brick…house.


** come to think of it, aren’t there a bunch of moderates who no longer post on AMT? I recall a few of them didnt like the idea of Biden as president, probably due to his age. That’s part of the problem in the USA. Each party’s missions are lost to independents. They equate a presidents age as more important than preserving the climate. As well as tax cuts, and on and on.

The problem for me with politics and environment is that it's metaphorically like this:

A building is burning out of control and the following groups react in this manner:

The radical right throws buckets of gasoline on the fire.

The moderate right throws cups of water on the fire.

The left throws buckets of water on the fire.

Environmental activists are racing in with hook and ladder fire engines but all of the above block the road.

Excellent analogy. With the situation dire, and the left’s political power marginal at best, we need to be as strategic as possible, so a couple of well placed ice cubes?

By strategic I mean that we should be focusing on renewable energy changes with maximum impact. EVs are getting a tremendous amount of attention now, but how much help are they providing? Yes they use less energy, but in todays world they are powered mostly by fossil fuels. So maybe we should be focusing on something else until renewables can power EVs? To me that’s eliminating coal, because that is the dirtiest fuel by far in wide use. But, in the US, that’s a difficult path to take, Dems don’t seem so much focused on that, but it’s the best way to use our ice cube. It’s my soap box, and I climb it often. 

Yes on all accounts!  Good job, L!

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

I think it got locked because an accusation was made about reading skills, not the topic? It’s difficult to know exactly why sometimes.

I was on the climate subreddit recently. A commenter claimed that China had its act together because they invested in high speed rails and the US doesn’t. That’s a stunning comment. China uses more coal than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet they have their act together . Coal is the absolute worst by far and can be and needs to be ended asap. Yet in America, it will not happen anytime soon.

That’s the problem with gathering enough political power to improve the climate situation. 45% of Americans are about to vote for a pro coal party**, and the rest of the country, even those supporting climate improvement, are split in so many differing directions, the movement has little political power. So un metaphorically we are walking full speed into a brick…house.


** come to think of it, aren’t there a bunch of moderates who no longer post on AMT? I recall a few of them didnt like the idea of Biden as president, probably due to his age. That’s part of the problem in the USA. Each party’s missions are lost to independents. They equate a presidents age as more important than preserving the climate. As well as tax cuts, and on and on.

I think it has less to do with political parties and factions than humans being a power greedy bunch especially western society.  When was the last time most people rode a bike or walked to the grocery store or took public transport?  Who actually separates their compost and has a compost pile in the back yard if their municipality doesn't offer a compost program?  Who separates their recycling and takes it to a facility if their municipality doesn't offer a recycling service?  Who pays a little bit more for something that will last longer than five years before planned obsolescence kicks in and they have to buy another widget to keep the economy afloat?  The problem is deeper than coal, it's lifestyle.  Coal is the big boogey man that it feels good to rail against, the Goliath that if it was slain would make us all ok again, unfortunately that is a fantasy.  If we stopped coal tomorrow we would still have horrible environmental consequences because people wouldn't be changing their habits and behaviors.

If we decided to continue as a disposable society and only change our methods of power generation we will just shift environmental impacts elsewhere.  the real answer is to stop being so selfish and cheap.

There is also the problem of the power consumption that the world now feels entitled to.

Where would we get the power for the endless devices and air-conditioning everyone has grown accustomed to using without a thought?  Nuclear?  would take a few years to ramp up to. level to meet current needs also has it's own environmental concerns. solar, wind? They have problems of their own in terms of lifespan of parts and disturbing the ecosystems where they can be installed for maximum efficiency, and would also require a several years long infrastructure project.   If we just cut coal and the world relied on what "green" energy we have, there would be riots.  Food would spoil, bank transactions wouldn't go through etc.   It sucks but it is reality.

Personally I think we should have a short term solution of ramping up a bunch of nuclear facilities and heavily investing in Geothermal, tidal, wind and solar research to figure out a way to provide enough power to meet the needs of the world.   No one is going to give up their devices , ring door bell cams, Server Farms, bit coin mines, Alexas, air-conditioning etc in the name of saving the planet even if the world is on fire.  We are too selfish. Electric cars won't save us no matter how smug people who buy them feel about their ability to do just thatt. Sadly it will take a world changing disaster for anything to get traction and by then it will be too late.

That's why I try to do what I can and have as much fun as possible while car surfing at high speed towards this brick wall.  I believe society as we know it is probably doomed.  I'm also not sure that that is a bad thing, it is what got us here after all.

tempo_n_groove

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

static111

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

tempo_n_groove

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Hardly any farmland? Because of development? Oprah bought a farm for crying out loud. Can you explain how there’s “hardly any farmland?”

Halifax2TheMax

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

I think it got locked because an accusation was made about reading skills, not the topic? It’s difficult to know exactly why sometimes.

I was on the climate subreddit recently. A commenter claimed that China had its act together because they invested in high speed rails and the US doesn’t. That’s a stunning comment. China uses more coal than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet they have their act together . Coal is the absolute worst by far and can be and needs to be ended asap. Yet in America, it will not happen anytime soon.

That’s the problem with gathering enough political power to improve the climate situation. 45% of Americans are about to vote for a pro coal party**, and the rest of the country, even those supporting climate improvement, are split in so many differing directions, the movement has little political power. So un metaphorically we are walking full speed into a brick…house.


** come to think of it, aren’t there a bunch of moderates who no longer post on AMT? I recall a few of them didnt like the idea of Biden as president, probably due to his age. That’s part of the problem in the USA. Each party’s missions are lost to independents. They equate a presidents age as more important than preserving the climate. As well as tax cuts, and on and on.

I think it has less to do with political parties and factions than humans being a power greedy bunch especially western society.  When was the last time most people rode a bike or walked to the grocery store or took public transport?  Who actually separates their compost and has a compost pile in the back yard if their municipality doesn't offer a compost program?  Who separates their recycling and takes it to a facility if their municipality doesn't offer a recycling service?  Who pays a little bit more for something that will last longer than five years before planned obsolescence kicks in and they have to buy another widget to keep the economy afloat?  The problem is deeper than coal, it's lifestyle.  Coal is the big boogey man that it feels good to rail against, the Goliath that if it was slain would make us all ok again, unfortunately that is a fantasy.  If we stopped coal tomorrow we would still have horrible environmental consequences because people wouldn't be changing their habits and behaviors.

If we decided to continue as a disposable society and only change our methods of power generation we will just shift environmental impacts elsewhere.  the real answer is to stop being so selfish and cheap.

There is also the problem of the power consumption that the world now feels entitled to.

Where would we get the power for the endless devices and air-conditioning everyone has grown accustomed to using without a thought?  Nuclear?  would take a few years to ramp up to. level to meet current needs also has it's own environmental concerns. solar, wind? They have problems of their own in terms of lifespan of parts and disturbing the ecosystems where they can be installed for maximum efficiency, and would also require a several years long infrastructure project.   If we just cut coal and the world relied on what "green" energy we have, there would be riots.  Food would spoil, bank transactions wouldn't go through etc.   It sucks but it is reality.

Personally I think we should have a short term solution of ramping up a bunch of nuclear facilities and heavily investing in Geothermal, tidal, wind and solar research to figure out a way to provide enough power to meet the needs of the world.   No one is going to give up their devices , ring door bell cams, Server Farms, bit coin mines, Alexas, air-conditioning etc in the name of saving the planet even if the world is on fire.  We are too selfish. Electric cars won't save us no matter how smug people who buy them feel about their ability to do just thatt. Sadly it will take a world changing disaster for anything to get traction and by then it will be too late.

That's why I try to do what I can and have as much fun as possible while car surfing at high speed towards this brick wall.  I believe society as we know it is probably doomed.  I'm also not sure that that is a bad thing, it is what got us here after all.

It’s already too late.

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Hardly any farmland? Because of development? Oprah bought a farm for crying out loud. Can you explain how there’s “hardly any farmland?”

That's actually easy.  All of Hawaii used to have an abundance of farmland.  The price of sugar cane have dropped significantly from cheaper prices in other countries.  Sugar cane fields have given way to housing developments.

Of course you can still buy farms but they are few and far between now.  The island imports about 90% of its vegetables now.

So that is how there is hardly any farmland now.

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Hardly any farmland? Because of development? Oprah bought a farm for crying out loud. Can you explain how there’s “hardly any farmland?”

That's actually easy.  All of Hawaii used to have an abundance of farmland.  The price of sugar cane have dropped significantly from cheaper prices in other countries.  Sugar cane fields have given way to housing developments.

Of course you can still buy farms but they are few and far between now.  The island imports about 90% of its vegetables now.

So that is how there is hardly any farmland now.

But 40% of the land is zoned agricultural and the number of acres being farmed increased between 2015 to 2020. Are you saying the development happened in the past 3 years? I’m not sure they grew vegetables, as we think of vegetables, there to begin with. More like vegetables native to the land and people, not European/North American veggies. As for sugar cane, being an island, it became unprofitable to farm but that doesn’t necessarily mean those fields became housing lots.

Not sure how you can say “hardly any farming.”

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Hardly any farmland? Because of development? Oprah bought a farm for crying out loud. Can you explain how there’s “hardly any farmland?”

That's actually easy.  All of Hawaii used to have an abundance of farmland.  The price of sugar cane have dropped significantly from cheaper prices in other countries.  Sugar cane fields have given way to housing developments.

Of course you can still buy farms but they are few and far between now.  The island imports about 90% of its vegetables now.

So that is how there is hardly any farmland now.

But 40% of the land is zoned agricultural and the number of acres being farmed increased between 2015 to 2020. Are you saying the development happened in the past 3 years? I’m not sure they grew vegetables, as we think of vegetables, there to begin with. More like vegetables native to the land and people, not European/North American veggies. As for sugar cane, being an island, it became unprofitable to farm but that doesn’t necessarily mean those fields became housing lots.

Not sure how you can say “hardly any farming.”

The amount of farms increased like 1% in that time.  It did increase but nothing significant.  It was a switch from cane to other things If you take what they were growing prior to sugar cane it's miniscule.  

40% might be zoned agriculture but Maui has 460,000 acres and 120,000 are farmed which is 25%.  If it is zoned for 40% then 15 % of that is grass and weeds.

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Hardly any farmland? Because of development? Oprah bought a farm for crying out loud. Can you explain how there’s “hardly any farmland?”

That's actually easy.  All of Hawaii used to have an abundance of farmland.  The price of sugar cane have dropped significantly from cheaper prices in other countries.  Sugar cane fields have given way to housing developments.

Of course you can still buy farms but they are few and far between now.  The island imports about 90% of its vegetables now.

So that is how there is hardly any farmland now.

But 40% of the land is zoned agricultural and the number of acres being farmed increased between 2015 to 2020. Are you saying the development happened in the past 3 years? I’m not sure they grew vegetables, as we think of vegetables, there to begin with. More like vegetables native to the land and people, not European/North American veggies. As for sugar cane, being an island, it became unprofitable to farm but that doesn’t necessarily mean those fields became housing lots.

Not sure how you can say “hardly any farming.”

The amount of farms increased like 1% in that time.  It did increase but nothing significant.  It was a switch from cane to other things If you take what they were growing prior to sugar cane it's miniscule.  

40% might be zoned agriculture but Maui has 460,000 acres and 120,000 are farmed which is 25%.  If it is zoned for 40% then 15 % of that is grass and weeds.

Was the 40% ever fully farmed? Has the 15%, or some portion, been developed? I don’t ever recall, in my lifetime, Hawaii having forest fires. I’m not convinced development or that “hardly any farms” is the cause or reason for what just happened. Exacerbate the situation, sure.

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Hardly any farmland? Because of development? Oprah bought a farm for crying out loud. Can you explain how there’s “hardly any farmland?”

That's actually easy.  All of Hawaii used to have an abundance of farmland.  The price of sugar cane have dropped significantly from cheaper prices in other countries.  Sugar cane fields have given way to housing developments.

Of course you can still buy farms but they are few and far between now.  The island imports about 90% of its vegetables now.

So that is how there is hardly any farmland now.

But 40% of the land is zoned agricultural and the number of acres being farmed increased between 2015 to 2020. Are you saying the development happened in the past 3 years? I’m not sure they grew vegetables, as we think of vegetables, there to begin with. More like vegetables native to the land and people, not European/North American veggies. As for sugar cane, being an island, it became unprofitable to farm but that doesn’t necessarily mean those fields became housing lots.

Not sure how you can say “hardly any farming.”

The amount of farms increased like 1% in that time.  It did increase but nothing significant.  It was a switch from cane to other things If you take what they were growing prior to sugar cane it's miniscule.  

40% might be zoned agriculture but Maui has 460,000 acres and 120,000 are farmed which is 25%.  If it is zoned for 40% then 15 % of that is grass and weeds.

Was the 40% ever fully farmed? Has the 15%, or some portion, been developed? I don’t ever recall, in my lifetime, Hawaii having forest fires. I’m not convinced development or that “hardly any farms” is the cause or reason for what just happened. Exacerbate the situation, sure.

I could have worded it better.

I was reading that foreign grass was a culprit of the spread too.  Initially I read grass then another article pointed out to foreign grass.

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

Reading up on that when there was sugar cane and pineapples it was never a problem.  Now those farms are gone and the grass has led to this.

Global warming or over development?  Or just misuse of land.  I think over development and land abuse gets overlooked sometimes in the fervor to tie everything to global warming.

It's a combination of the 3.

A storm has never helped a fire prior.  They used to never have fires because the land was being farmed.  There is hardly any farmland because of development.

Hardly any farmland? Because of development? Oprah bought a farm for crying out loud. Can you explain how there’s “hardly any farmland?”

That's actually easy.  All of Hawaii used to have an abundance of farmland.  The price of sugar cane have dropped significantly from cheaper prices in other countries.  Sugar cane fields have given way to housing developments.

Of course you can still buy farms but they are few and far between now.  The island imports about 90% of its vegetables now.

So that is how there is hardly any farmland now.

But 40% of the land is zoned agricultural and the number of acres being farmed increased between 2015 to 2020. Are you saying the development happened in the past 3 years? I’m not sure they grew vegetables, as we think of vegetables, there to begin with. More like vegetables native to the land and people, not European/North American veggies. As for sugar cane, being an island, it became unprofitable to farm but that doesn’t necessarily mean those fields became housing lots.

Not sure how you can say “hardly any farming.”

The amount of farms increased like 1% in that time.  It did increase but nothing significant.  It was a switch from cane to other things If you take what they were growing prior to sugar cane it's miniscule.  

40% might be zoned agriculture but Maui has 460,000 acres and 120,000 are farmed which is 25%.  If it is zoned for 40% then 15 % of that is grass and weeds.

Was the 40% ever fully farmed? Has the 15%, or some portion, been developed? I don’t ever recall, in my lifetime, Hawaii having forest fires. I’m not convinced development or that “hardly any farms” is the cause or reason for what just happened. Exacerbate the situation, sure.

I could have worded it better.

I was reading that foreign grass was a culprit of the spread too.  Initially I read grass then another article pointed out to foreign grass.

Sure, blame it on the Thai stick.

brianlux

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

Well, the Maui/Lahaina thread got derailed and lock quicker than a wildfire on dry land.  But in the bigger picture, that terribly sad even is yet another reflection of what is happening with climate change.  During as recently as from the 70s on, a good friend of ours lived on and spent a lot of time on Maui and "The Big Island" (called Hawaii) and she is devastated by what is happening there.  She says wildfires of the nature we are seeing were unheard of until recent times and never as bad as today.

And look at Canada- over 27 million acres have burned this year and fire season is far from over.  Think about that- 27+ million acres.

What is most frustrating is that just yesterday I was thinking about how I remember that forty years ago I read something someone (I think it was Doug Peacock) had said about environmental conditions that metaphorically we were like a speeding car about to smash into a brick wall and nobody was doing a damn thing to stop it. At the time, I had been somewhat aware of the issues evolving, but reading that article was when I started to ramp up my involvement in environmental activism and became more aware of my own impact on the planet. 

And now we're hitting that brick wall and a lot of people are saying, "Oh my GOD, what happened?"

40 years ago, and too many people just slept through our many years of opportunity and now look at what is happening. It's pathetic.

I think it got locked because an accusation was made about reading skills, not the topic? It’s difficult to know exactly why sometimes.

I was on the climate subreddit recently. A commenter claimed that China had its act together because they invested in high speed rails and the US doesn’t. That’s a stunning comment. China uses more coal than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet they have their act together . Coal is the absolute worst by far and can be and needs to be ended asap. Yet in America, it will not happen anytime soon.

That’s the problem with gathering enough political power to improve the climate situation. 45% of Americans are about to vote for a pro coal party**, and the rest of the country, even those supporting climate improvement, are split in so many differing directions, the movement has little political power. So un metaphorically we are walking full speed into a brick…house.


** come to think of it, aren’t there a bunch of moderates who no longer post on AMT? I recall a few of them didnt like the idea of Biden as president, probably due to his age. That’s part of the problem in the USA. Each party’s missions are lost to independents. They equate a presidents age as more important than preserving the climate. As well as tax cuts, and on and on.

I think it has less to do with political parties and factions than humans being a power greedy bunch especially western society.  When was the last time most people rode a bike or walked to the grocery store or took public transport?  Who actually separates their compost and has a compost pile in the back yard if their municipality doesn't offer a compost program?  Who separates their recycling and takes it to a facility if their municipality doesn't offer a recycling service?  Who pays a little bit more for something that will last longer than five years before planned obsolescence kicks in and they have to buy another widget to keep the economy afloat?  The problem is deeper than coal, it's lifestyle.  Coal is the big boogey man that it feels good to rail against, the Goliath that if it was slain would make us all ok again, unfortunately that is a fantasy.  If we stopped coal tomorrow we would still have horrible environmental consequences because people wouldn't be changing their habits and behaviors.

If we decided to continue as a disposable society and only change our methods of power generation we will just shift environmental impacts elsewhere.  the real answer is to stop being so selfish and cheap.

There is also the problem of the power consumption that the world now feels entitled to.

Where would we get the power for the endless devices and air-conditioning everyone has grown accustomed to using without a thought?  Nuclear?  would take a few years to ramp up to. level to meet current needs also has it's own environmental concerns. solar, wind? They have problems of their own in terms of lifespan of parts and disturbing the ecosystems where they can be installed for maximum efficiency, and would also require a several years long infrastructure project.   If we just cut coal and the world relied on what "green" energy we have, there would be riots.  Food would spoil, bank transactions wouldn't go through etc.   It sucks but it is reality.

Personally I think we should have a short term solution of ramping up a bunch of nuclear facilities and heavily investing in Geothermal, tidal, wind and solar research to figure out a way to provide enough power to meet the needs of the world.   No one is going to give up their devices , ring door bell cams, Server Farms, bit coin mines, Alexas, air-conditioning etc in the name of saving the planet even if the world is on fire.  We are too selfish. Electric cars won't save us no matter how smug people who buy them feel about their ability to do just thatt. Sadly it will take a world changing disaster for anything to get traction and by then it will be too late.

That's why I try to do what I can and have as much fun as possible while car surfing at high speed towards this brick wall.  I believe society as we know it is probably doomed.  I'm also not sure that that is a bad thing, it is what got us here after all.

"Selfish and cheap" are definitely major factors that have led us to the brink.  To be fair, I think we can say that a lot of what has made us selfish- in developed and first world countries anyway- is learned behavior.  Most of us grew up surrounded by a lot of "stuff".  When I was a kid, my family was on the very low end of middle class, but we were not poor and my folks had middle class aspirations.  Most of us grew up with daily rations of advertising us telling us about all the things we "need".  Having one's own vehicle was a given.  I grew up in a family that had one car, one TV, and one phone.  Today, every member of a family grows up with the assumption that as soon as possible, each person will have their own vehicle, phone, television, and computer, and enough clothes in their closet to wear something different every day.  We are brought up to be conditioned to accept all of this as normal when it is actually quite absurd.

And then, as you so well put it, we are also conditioned to accept the notion that cheaper is better because you can always buy a new one.  We don't demand durability in our products.  We might complain a little about things breaking down, but how often do people write to companies and tell them their products are shit?  How often does the average person stop to assess what they are purchasing and consider that a better made, more expensive product and work better, last longer, consume fewer resources, and, in the long run, cost them less money?  I don't believe the average person thinks about durability.  And the irony is that buying cheap crap only serves to diminish the health of our planet and costs us more money in the long run.  If we think about it, being cheap is also absurd and self-defeating.