17 year old dutch rape victim denied euthania starves self to death.

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  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 11,551

    It is a tough topic.   I have a coworker who has a dog with a not so good past I'm assuming.  Got it at the pound.  The dog has severe anxiety issues when the owner is not around.  Would hurt itself essentially trying to get out of cages if left alone.  The dog has to go to doggie day care everyday.   My thought is the humane thing would be to put the dog down as it has to be torture to the dog to be in that level of anxiety all the time (and it is just a dog). 

    Okay... that was a story about a dog and obviously not about a human.  But, my point is that none of us can know what is going on in someone's head that could lead them to a decision to end their life.  I think a lot of time there is a biological issue whether caused naturally or through past drug use and medications.  So, I don't blame anyone for ending their life as I can't know what is going on and how tough it is to get through the day.   I don't think it is selfishness, cowardice or a lack of love for family members.   I'm not advocating that people shouldn't get help, but it pisses me off sometimes when people make judgments about those who have killed themselves.  Some people are happy go lucky, and some people every day is a chore.

  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,350
    edited June 10

    It is a tough topic.   I have a coworker who has a dog with a not so good past I'm assuming.  Got it at the pound.  The dog has severe anxiety issues when the owner is not around.  Would hurt itself essentially trying to get out of cages if left alone.  The dog has to go to doggie day care everyday.   My thought is the humane thing would be to put the dog down as it has to be torture to the dog to be in that level of anxiety all the time (and it is just a dog). 

    Okay... that was a story about a dog and obviously not about a human.  But, my point is that none of us can know what is going on in someone's head that could lead them to a decision to end their life.  I think a lot of time there is a biological issue whether caused naturally or through past drug use and medications.  So, I don't blame anyone for ending their life as I can't know what is going on and how tough it is to get through the day.   I don't think it is selfishness, cowardice or a lack of love for family members.   I'm not advocating that people shouldn't get help, but it pisses me off sometimes when people make judgments about those who have killed themselves.  Some people are happy go lucky, and some people every day is a chore.

    This is the reality of it.  I admit in my younger, less understanding days I was one of those people who said things like "man up, just deal with it, you have all this money/friends/family," etc.  Thankfully as I've gotten older I've learned to embrace empathy.  But what I really learned deep down was that I did not understand mental illness, depression, anxiety, etc because those were things that I never experienced first hand.  It's impossible for me - who is not afflicted with these ailments - to understand the daily struggle that people who are affected deal with.  I am thankful that I don't fight the same fight these folks do every second, minute, hour, day, week, month, year, an so on.  That's not to say I'm always a ray of fucking sunshine because we all have our bad days.  But I think of how shitty I feel on what I consider a "bad day" and then multiple that exponentially - that's the only way I can even fathom someone else's mental or behavioral pain.

    I really don't think the discussion here should be whether or not euthanasia should be legal or whether or not this girl should/shouldn't have been denied the proper legal assistance (based on her age - seems to be the most feedback).  The real argument here (aside from the even more obvious one) should be fixing what is wrong at the core of society, laws, & government that we allow innocent people to be mentally tortured so far over previous trauma that it drives them to the point of seeking euthanasia or suicide.
    Post edited by HesCalledDyer on
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,735

    It is a tough topic.   I have a coworker who has a dog with a not so good past I'm assuming.  Got it at the pound.  The dog has severe anxiety issues when the owner is not around.  Would hurt itself essentially trying to get out of cages if left alone.  The dog has to go to doggie day care everyday.   My thought is the humane thing would be to put the dog down as it has to be torture to the dog to be in that level of anxiety all the time (and it is just a dog). 

    Okay... that was a story about a dog and obviously not about a human.  But, my point is that none of us can know what is going on in someone's head that could lead them to a decision to end their life.  I think a lot of time there is a biological issue whether caused naturally or through past drug use and medications.  So, I don't blame anyone for ending their life as I can't know what is going on and how tough it is to get through the day.   I don't think it is selfishness, cowardice or a lack of love for family members.   I'm not advocating that people shouldn't get help, but it pisses me off sometimes when people make judgments about those who have killed themselves.  Some people are happy go lucky, and some people every day is a chore.

    My dad died of cancer and for the last week or so, I frequently thought that if he were a dog, he'd be put down in order to end the suffering.  There was no value to keeping him alive those last days except for the simple fact that we don't know how to draw a line.  In that way, we are sometimes better to our pets than ourselves.  For humans we "value life" in a way that sometimes favors quantity over quality.

    All that said, while I generally favor letting people determine when they die, I admit to hesitation here.  I don't even want kids to be able to buy tobacco because I want them to be old enough to make the choice before getting addicted. Now we have a "child" (based on the arbitrary, frequently-used age of 18 in the US for adulthood).  What's the state's role.  Should the parents get the ultimate choice?  Should the state protect the child both from herself and her parents (if needed)?  If the state chooses to keep her alive against her will, what responsibility does it have to help make that life worth living?  I'm not in the mood to decide what I think...except that this is just sad in all ways.  Nobody wins.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,859
    edited June 10
    OnWis97 said:

    It is a tough topic.   I have a coworker who has a dog with a not so good past I'm assuming.  Got it at the pound.  The dog has severe anxiety issues when the owner is not around.  Would hurt itself essentially trying to get out of cages if left alone.  The dog has to go to doggie day care everyday.   My thought is the humane thing would be to put the dog down as it has to be torture to the dog to be in that level of anxiety all the time (and it is just a dog). 

    Okay... that was a story about a dog and obviously not about a human.  But, my point is that none of us can know what is going on in someone's head that could lead them to a decision to end their life.  I think a lot of time there is a biological issue whether caused naturally or through past drug use and medications.  So, I don't blame anyone for ending their life as I can't know what is going on and how tough it is to get through the day.   I don't think it is selfishness, cowardice or a lack of love for family members.   I'm not advocating that people shouldn't get help, but it pisses me off sometimes when people make judgments about those who have killed themselves.  Some people are happy go lucky, and some people every day is a chore.

    My dad died of cancer and for the last week or so, I frequently thought that if he were a dog, he'd be put down in order to end the suffering.  There was no value to keeping him alive those last days except for the simple fact that we don't know how to draw a line.  In that way, we are sometimes better to our pets than ourselves.  For humans we "value life" in a way that sometimes favors quantity over quality.

    All that said, while I generally favor letting people determine when they die, I admit to hesitation here.  I don't even want kids to be able to buy tobacco because I want them to be old enough to make the choice before getting addicted. Now we have a "child" (based on the arbitrary, frequently-used age of 18 in the US for adulthood).  What's the state's role.  Should the parents get the ultimate choice?  Should the state protect the child both from herself and her parents (if needed)?  If the state chooses to keep her alive against her will, what responsibility does it have to help make that life worth living?  I'm not in the mood to decide what I think...except that this is just sad in all ways.  Nobody wins.
    FiL passed this afternoon. 5 days in Hospice.

    passed about 5 min after a call ended with an estranged daughter. who knows how much he heard or was aware of. but damn if everyone on his living children didnt get a chance to tell him I love you and it wss ok to go.

    this thread came to mind several times as I sat there.

    Post edited by mickeyrat on
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • RenfieldRenfield NYC NYPosts: 142
    @mickeyrat
    I’m sorry about your father-in-law.
    They say that hearing is the last to go, so perhaps he did hear what she was saying on the phone.
    Was she the last loved one left to connect with him?
    Phenomenon or coincidence... many dying wait till all their loved ones have gathered to pass away, or when loved ones say that’s it’s OK to go. I don’t think it’s coincidence.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,859
    Renfield said:
    @mickeyrat
    I’m sorry about your father-in-law.
    They say that hearing is the last to go, so perhaps he did hear what she was saying on the phone.
    Was she the last loved one left to connect with him?
    Phenomenon or coincidence... many dying wait till all their loved ones have gathered to pass away, or when loved ones say that’s it’s OK to go. I don’t think it’s coincidence.
    it was.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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