The Democratic Candidates

mrussel1

what dreams said:

Okay, well the next time dozens of people are killed in a mass shooting, you can all just shrug your shoulders and say "But the Democratic nomination . . . " Good for all of you. 

Yeah that's what we do.  We just say fuck it.  
Condescending wins votes everytime. 

JimmyV

We'll give it a catchy name like Common Sense Confiscations so that Democrats feel more comfortable talking about it. "Yes, I am pro-buyback..."

PJPOWER

benjs said:

PJPOWER said:

benjs said:

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

Hi! said:

benjs said:

what dreams said:

So then let's all eliminate Sanders and Warren from our prospective candidate pool as well, if we're going to say that we don't want an elderly candidate to win the office. 
I agree it's difficult to listen to Biden bumble his way through a debate or speech. But I'm not going to jump on the ageism train in explaining it away. If you don't like Joe Biden because of his policy positions, his record, etc., then just say that. But if I go back through this thread and see a person applauding Warren or Sanders but crapping on Biden's age (which I won't because who has time for that), I will only conclude that you're using his age as an excuse to bash his candidacy instead of bashing his positions/record.
All three of them are old. When they're not trying to get through the god-awful grueling physical marathon of running for office, when they're actually sitting in the office with their cabinet and staff making decisions, I'm way more comfortable with Biden than the other two because I'm not a fan of the free-stuff-for-everybody approach to governing. 
You know who is also old? Pearl Jam. On three recent past tours, EV has busted his knee, his back, his voice is shot -- he should just retire from rock and roll. It's embarrassing watching an old guy try to be what he used to be. Right?

I don't care if you're 20 or 70 - for three and a half years we've watched incredulously as Trump delivered statement after statement making no sense. I'm sorry if others disagree with me, but Biden's response about health care - factoring in record players, not telling parents how to parent, repeating "look" at the beginning of his long-winded explanations, Venezuela, and embarrassingly asking for more time to continue to speak in a meandering nonsensical way - was as bad as many of Trump's speeches. I don't know if it's dementia or "just Joe", but he hasn't instilled any confidence in my mind over these three debates. Even on script, I find him a very bad speaker. To those who believe Biden is the best bet for a Democratic president, I'd love to hear what they're seeing which I'm not. 

If not Joe, better not be Sanders or Warren, I don’t think they can win. 
I think in the polling that there’s a percentage of people that won’t admit to supporting Trump. It’s going to be hard to beat Trump regardless, a liberal or self admitted socialist is going to lose. 
Losing Ideas:
1.) Gun confiscation 
2.) Medicare for all

Yeah, gun confiscation is just a terrible idea on which to campaign nationally.  It doesn't even matter what I think about the merits, it's too easy of a leap to say "the gov't will take this from you, what's next?"  

Are we sure that Beto is not actually a NRA operative using reverse psychology to get Trump votes?  Because that is all he is actually accomplishing by using his confiscation rhetoric. If you want to rile up the Republican base, go ahead and blatantly talk about “taking their guns”.  Talk about undermining the Democrat platform...

I was listening to Pod Save America and they were talking about "what Beto was trying to do", and I almost chuckled listening to these guys desperately trying to figure out what the angle was, whether he over or undersold it, what he was trying to do... it seems to me they just didn't recognize a politician being authentic because it's been so long since we've seen it.

That said, I think it'll almost certainly negatively impact him this time around (and unfortunately likely the DNC at large), but it'll become a great soundbite for 2024 for Beto. 

Ha, it’s much better than being lied to.  I don’t think Beto is going too far politically though.

Lied to? What fewer gun rights do you have today than ten years ago? 

I meant “lied to regarding intentions”.  AKA “nobody wants to take your guns”.
It kinda undermines every aspect of gun control, though.  “Let’s register guns-no, because the Democrats will use it for confiscation”, etc.  It invalidates the “common sense gun control” argument and turns it into “extreme gun control” and lessens the likelihood of anything getting changed.  Not a good move by Beto in my opinion.

mrussel1

Some people get to live in ideological dreamworld because they don't truly have a say in the process,  like Beto for example.  Others,  who have legislated in their lives and have actual accomplishments,  and might have to make real adult decisions,  have to be more measured.  

But good for Beto.  Maybe he'll be remembered more for this than losing a Senate race. 

Lerxst1992

what dreams said:

Okay, well the next time dozens of people are killed in a mass shooting, you can all just shrug your shoulders and say "But the Democratic nomination . . . " Good for all of you. 

I understand why Beto snapped. Hes been standing in a literal river of blood lately created by a murderer triggered by trump.

But in order to effectuate change, democrats need to win elections.  This outrageous comment will most likely do nothing more than help trump and GOP senate candidates raise money and scare swing state voters of the democratic boogeyman for years to come. So thanks Beto 

Just like Liz Warren, who is sharp, energetic and inspiring at her rallies.  But ordering people onto socialized healthcare is no way to win on election day. 

JimmyV

mrussel1 said:

Some people get to live in ideological dreamworld because they don't truly have a say in the process,  like Beto for example.  Others,  who have legislated in their lives and have actual accomplishments,  and might have to make real adult decisions,  have to be more measured.  

But good for Beto.  Maybe he'll be remembered more for this than losing a Senate race. 

They have to lead. That's the job we're hiring them to do. And someone, somewhere, needs to lead us to a ban on and confiscation of these weapons.

cincybearcat

PJPOWER said:

benjs said:

PJPOWER said:

benjs said:

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

Hi! said:

benjs said:

what dreams said:

So then let's all eliminate Sanders and Warren from our prospective candidate pool as well, if we're going to say that we don't want an elderly candidate to win the office. 
I agree it's difficult to listen to Biden bumble his way through a debate or speech. But I'm not going to jump on the ageism train in explaining it away. If you don't like Joe Biden because of his policy positions, his record, etc., then just say that. But if I go back through this thread and see a person applauding Warren or Sanders but crapping on Biden's age (which I won't because who has time for that), I will only conclude that you're using his age as an excuse to bash his candidacy instead of bashing his positions/record.
All three of them are old. When they're not trying to get through the god-awful grueling physical marathon of running for office, when they're actually sitting in the office with their cabinet and staff making decisions, I'm way more comfortable with Biden than the other two because I'm not a fan of the free-stuff-for-everybody approach to governing. 
You know who is also old? Pearl Jam. On three recent past tours, EV has busted his knee, his back, his voice is shot -- he should just retire from rock and roll. It's embarrassing watching an old guy try to be what he used to be. Right?

I don't care if you're 20 or 70 - for three and a half years we've watched incredulously as Trump delivered statement after statement making no sense. I'm sorry if others disagree with me, but Biden's response about health care - factoring in record players, not telling parents how to parent, repeating "look" at the beginning of his long-winded explanations, Venezuela, and embarrassingly asking for more time to continue to speak in a meandering nonsensical way - was as bad as many of Trump's speeches. I don't know if it's dementia or "just Joe", but he hasn't instilled any confidence in my mind over these three debates. Even on script, I find him a very bad speaker. To those who believe Biden is the best bet for a Democratic president, I'd love to hear what they're seeing which I'm not. 

If not Joe, better not be Sanders or Warren, I don’t think they can win. 
I think in the polling that there’s a percentage of people that won’t admit to supporting Trump. It’s going to be hard to beat Trump regardless, a liberal or self admitted socialist is going to lose. 
Losing Ideas:
1.) Gun confiscation 
2.) Medicare for all

Yeah, gun confiscation is just a terrible idea on which to campaign nationally.  It doesn't even matter what I think about the merits, it's too easy of a leap to say "the gov't will take this from you, what's next?"  

Are we sure that Beto is not actually a NRA operative using reverse psychology to get Trump votes?  Because that is all he is actually accomplishing by using his confiscation rhetoric. If you want to rile up the Republican base, go ahead and blatantly talk about “taking their guns”.  Talk about undermining the Democrat platform...

I was listening to Pod Save America and they were talking about "what Beto was trying to do", and I almost chuckled listening to these guys desperately trying to figure out what the angle was, whether he over or undersold it, what he was trying to do... it seems to me they just didn't recognize a politician being authentic because it's been so long since we've seen it.

That said, I think it'll almost certainly negatively impact him this time around (and unfortunately likely the DNC at large), but it'll become a great soundbite for 2024 for Beto. 

Ha, it’s much better than being lied to.  I don’t think Beto is going too far politically though.

Lied to? What fewer gun rights do you have today than ten years ago? 

I meant “lied to regarding intentions”.  AKA “nobody wants to take your guns”.
It kinda undermines every aspect of gun control, though.  “Let’s register guns-no, because the Democrats will use it for confiscation”, etc.  It invalidates the “common sense gun control” argument and turns it into “extreme gun control” and lessens the likelihood of anything getting changed.  Not a good move by Beto in my opinion.

No one can promises you that “nobody is going to take your guns”. They can’t promise for other people. Hell, if I was president I’d be trying like hell to take a lot of guns away. While giving you a tax break

mrussel1

JimmyV said:

mrussel1 said:

Some people get to live in ideological dreamworld because they don't truly have a say in the process,  like Beto for example.  Others,  who have legislated in their lives and have actual accomplishments,  and might have to make real adult decisions,  have to be more measured.  

But good for Beto.  Maybe he'll be remembered more for this than losing a Senate race. 

They have to lead. That's the job we're hiring them to do. And someone, somewhere, needs to lead us to a ban on and confiscation of these weapons.

You don't lead the other party,  you compromise.  And your hand grows stronger by the year as the country,  particularly the middle,  absorbs the change.  The Obamacare example is very instructive and provides a model. It would be great if a gun buy back went into effect next week or next year.  But it's fantasy.  It's fine for the activists to dream,  but not serious candidates. 

PJPOWER

JimmyV said:

mrussel1 said:

Some people get to live in ideological dreamworld because they don't truly have a say in the process,  like Beto for example.  Others,  who have legislated in their lives and have actual accomplishments,  and might have to make real adult decisions,  have to be more measured.  

But good for Beto.  Maybe he'll be remembered more for this than losing a Senate race. 

They have to lead. That's the job we're hiring them to do. And someone, somewhere, needs to lead us to a ban on and confiscation of these weapons.

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though.  I sure as heck will not.  It’s way too intrusive of a measure and would only create more problems in my opinion.  I understand how we could get to a ban on some types of guns...but confiscation from people that already legally own them...no dice.

Spiritual_Chaos

PJPOWER said:

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though. 

Start knowing better people.

PJPOWER

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though. 

Start knowing better people.

Eat a steak

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though. 

Start knowing better people.

Thought bubbles rule. 

mickeyrat

hmm. some real discourse was hapoening. oh well. nice while it lasted.

brianlux

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though. 

Start knowing better people.

Eat a steak

Troll steak, that is, right?

PJPOWER

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though. 

Start knowing better people.

Eat a steak

Troll steak, that is, right?

The proverbial steak, ha

hedonist

I’m just tired of reading interesting, informative threads only to have someone who can’t keep their verbal dick in their pants piss on it. 

JimmyV

PJPOWER said:

JimmyV said:

mrussel1 said:

Some people get to live in ideological dreamworld because they don't truly have a say in the process,  like Beto for example.  Others,  who have legislated in their lives and have actual accomplishments,  and might have to make real adult decisions,  have to be more measured.  

But good for Beto.  Maybe he'll be remembered more for this than losing a Senate race. 

They have to lead. That's the job we're hiring them to do. And someone, somewhere, needs to lead us to a ban on and confiscation of these weapons.

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though.  I sure as heck will not.  It’s way too intrusive of a measure and would only create more problems in my opinion.  I understand how we could get to a ban on some types of guns...but confiscation from people that already legally own them...no dice.

And this is the mindset that needs to be changed but won't be until we get comfortable talking about it. 

PJPOWER

JimmyV said:

PJPOWER said:

JimmyV said:

mrussel1 said:

Some people get to live in ideological dreamworld because they don't truly have a say in the process,  like Beto for example.  Others,  who have legislated in their lives and have actual accomplishments,  and might have to make real adult decisions,  have to be more measured.  

But good for Beto.  Maybe he'll be remembered more for this than losing a Senate race. 

They have to lead. That's the job we're hiring them to do. And someone, somewhere, needs to lead us to a ban on and confiscation of these weapons.

Well good luck to them...I know plenty of people on both sides of the isle that will not vote for a candidate spouting confiscation, though.  I sure as heck will not.  It’s way too intrusive of a measure and would only create more problems in my opinion.  I understand how we could get to a ban on some types of guns...but confiscation from people that already legally own them...no dice.

And this is the mindset that needs to be changed but won't be until we get comfortable talking about it. 

You can get as comfortable talking about it as you want, but most people are not going to be very accepting of the government coming in and trying to take their legally purchased property.  Especially if you don’t even align with the politicians threatening it.  I just don’t think confiscation under the disguise of “buyback programs” is the way to go.  Heck, people were already afraid that the Democrats were pushing towards confiscation when they were saying they merely  wanted registration.  “Registration leads to confiscation”, remember? If you vote for a candidate specifically because they are saying “imma gonna take em”, then you are being duped.  Confiscation will not hold up in state or federal courts.  In my opinion, successful mass confiscation is impossible on numerous levels.  Well, it’s actually possible I guess, but I am sure not going to support what that would entail.  

cincybearcat

I keep seeing people reference their “god given right” to have an AR-15. What the actual fuck? You do know that the constitution isn’t the Bible right? It’s not god given. And even it mentions a “well regulated” militia. Y’all want to be strict constitutionalists until it doesn’t suit you.

Ugh it’s so frustrating. No idea why the republicans and NRA didn’t lead on the gun safety issue from day 1. And doubling down as people die for your “god given” (but lobbyist $ given more accurate) right to have a stupid gun sit in your closet. 

PJPOWER

cincybearcat said:

I keep seeing people reference their “god given right” to have an AR-15. What the actual fuck? You do know that the constitution isn’t the Bible right? It’s not god given. And even it mentions a “well regulated” militia. Y’all want to be strict constitutionalists until it doesn’t suit you.

Ugh it’s so frustrating. No idea why the republicans and NRA didn’t lead on the gun safety issue from day 1. And doubling down as people die for your “god given” (but lobbyist $ given more accurate) right to have a stupid gun sit in your closet. 

The “well regulated militia” wording has been debated for years, so I’ll leave that part to the Supreme Court to decide upon.  I agree, though, Republicans could and should be pushing gun safety.  If I was a Republican candidate, I would probably even go as far as giving tax breaks or other incentives for those that take a firearm safety class (similar to Defensive Driving programs).  I don’t guess I’ve seen much of the “God given” rhetoric lately, but I’ll take your word for it.  I, personally, am more concerned with the 4th amendment being violated with confiscation (I guess non of them are “God given” rights though).