The Democratic Candidates

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  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dignin said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Biden will be this elections Jeb Bush.

    Mark my words.
    Not even close.
    Agreed.  This is Biden s to lose. 
    That's pretty obvious by the polls.

    Which at the start of the GOP primaries most thought it was Jebs to lose.

    Front runners and inevitable candidates have a history of flaming out.

    Only time will tell, but my guess is Biden isn't going to fair to well in the debates, everyone is going to beat up on the guy in the lead. And Biden has a history of losing.


    Folks, that was Senator Biden, not Vice President Biden. When trying to unseat an incumbent, folks, Executive Branch Pedigree counts more than anything else.

    Second, folks, Biden is a moderate, which means he is best positioned to draw independent votes away from the incumbent. 

    Third, folks, Biden spent his younger years growing up in Scranton and that resonates best with the Rust Belt swing state voters that served as trumps 2016 base than the other candidates. 

    Folks, fourth on my list is demographics. Biden polls best among the incumbents base of demographic support willing to consider voting against trump.

    These four points, folks, work perfectly for a 2020 type election and perhaps not as much in a 2016 type one. Bidens strengths are micro targeted specifically to take down a Trump incumbency.

    The best evidence of this folks is the Trump Reelection Campaign is now setting up shop in new states that Hillary won, such as NV MM and NH. The Rs see Biden's strength in the many swing states trump won and are significantly concerned 

    If dems are willing to blow this opportunity on a potential absurd debate gaffe, folks, they deserve 4 more years of trump. 
    Like I said, folks, it's still really early. Folks.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    edited June 2019
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dignin said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Biden will be this elections Jeb Bush.

    Mark my words.
    Not even close.
    Agreed.  This is Biden s to lose. 
    That's pretty obvious by the polls.

    Which at the start of the GOP primaries most thought it was Jebs to lose.

    Front runners and inevitable candidates have a history of flaming out.

    Only time will tell, but my guess is Biden isn't going to fair to well in the debates, everyone is going to beat up on the guy in the lead. And Biden has a history of losing.


    Folks, that was Senator Biden, not Vice President Biden. When trying to unseat an incumbent, folks, Executive Branch Pedigree counts more than anything else.

    Second, folks, Biden is a moderate, which means he is best positioned to draw independent votes away from the incumbent. 

    Third, folks, Biden spent his younger years growing up in Scranton and that resonates best with the Rust Belt swing state voters that served as trumps 2016 base than the other candidates. 

    Folks, fourth on my list is demographics. Biden polls best among the incumbents base of demographic support willing to consider voting against trump.

    These four points, folks, work perfectly for a 2020 type election and perhaps not as much in a 2016 type one. Bidens strengths are micro targeted specifically to take down a Trump incumbency.

    The best evidence of this folks is the Trump Reelection Campaign is now setting up shop in new states that Hillary won, such as NV MM and NH. The Rs see Biden's strength in the many swing states trump won and are significantly concerned 

    If dems are willing to blow this opportunity on a potential absurd debate gaffe, folks, they deserve 4 more years of trump. 
    That there even are talks of 4 more years of Trump, makes the US deserve 4 more years of Trump. Oh, wait - that enough people had been conditioned to believe he had a brain to begin with makes the US deserve 4 more years of Trump. So, it's well past deserving.

    And, in the words of well-known democratic grass roots activist Tyler Durden:








    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    dignin said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dignin said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Biden will be this elections Jeb Bush.

    Mark my words.
    Not even close.
    Agreed.  This is Biden s to lose. 
    That's pretty obvious by the polls.

    Which at the start of the GOP primaries most thought it was Jebs to lose.

    Front runners and inevitable candidates have a history of flaming out.

    Only time will tell, but my guess is Biden isn't going to fair to well in the debates, everyone is going to beat up on the guy in the lead. And Biden has a history of losing.


    Folks, that was Senator Biden, not Vice President Biden. When trying to unseat an incumbent, folks, Executive Branch Pedigree counts more than anything else.

    Second, folks, Biden is a moderate, which means he is best positioned to draw independent votes away from the incumbent. 

    Third, folks, Biden spent his younger years growing up in Scranton and that resonates best with the Rust Belt swing state voters that served as trumps 2016 base than the other candidates. 

    Folks, fourth on my list is demographics. Biden polls best among the incumbents base of demographic support willing to consider voting against trump.

    These four points, folks, work perfectly for a 2020 type election and perhaps not as much in a 2016 type one. Bidens strengths are micro targeted specifically to take down a Trump incumbency.

    The best evidence of this folks is the Trump Reelection Campaign is now setting up shop in new states that Hillary won, such as NV MM and NH. The Rs see Biden's strength in the many swing states trump won and are significantly concerned 

    If dems are willing to blow this opportunity on a potential absurd debate gaffe, folks, they deserve 4 more years of trump. 
    Like I said, folks, it's still really early. Folks.
    I can hear Joe's voice in both of these posts. 
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/04/plagiarism-biden-climate-change-plan-1504950

    Former Vice President Joe Biden’s campaign came under fire on Tuesday for putting out a $1.7 trillion climate change plan that appeared to copy a handful of passages from previously published documents.

    The incident recalled the plagiarism incident that helped drive Biden from the 1988 presidential race, though Biden's campaign team called the latest episode an error that was corrected.

    “Several citations, some from sources cited in other parts of the plan, were inadvertently left out of the final version of the 22 page document,” a Biden spokesperson said in an email. “As soon as we were made aware of it, we updated to include the proper citations.”

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/04/plagiarism-biden-climate-change-plan-1504950

    Former Vice President Joe Biden’s campaign came under fire on Tuesday for putting out a $1.7 trillion climate change plan that appeared to copy a handful of passages from previously published documents.

    The incident recalled the plagiarism incident that helped drive Biden from the 1988 presidential race, though Biden's campaign team called the latest episode an error that was corrected.

    “Several citations, some from sources cited in other parts of the plan, were inadvertently left out of the final version of the 22 page document,” a Biden spokesperson said in an email. “As soon as we were made aware of it, we updated to include the proper citations.”

    The horror. He lost my vote now.  Trump 2020.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    edited June 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/04/plagiarism-biden-climate-change-plan-1504950

    Former Vice President Joe Biden’s campaign came under fire on Tuesday for putting out a $1.7 trillion climate change plan that appeared to copy a handful of passages from previously published documents.

    The incident recalled the plagiarism incident that helped drive Biden from the 1988 presidential race, though Biden's campaign team called the latest episode an error that was corrected.

    “Several citations, some from sources cited in other parts of the plan, were inadvertently left out of the final version of the 22 page document,” a Biden spokesperson said in an email. “As soon as we were made aware of it, we updated to include the proper citations.”

    The horror. He lost my vote now.  Trump 2020.
    You can't even see it being a bit funny a known plagiariser (plural) getting "caught" doing it again? Can not even see it just a little?

    You don't have to treat him like a golden idol.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/04/plagiarism-biden-climate-change-plan-1504950

    Former Vice President Joe Biden’s campaign came under fire on Tuesday for putting out a $1.7 trillion climate change plan that appeared to copy a handful of passages from previously published documents.

    The incident recalled the plagiarism incident that helped drive Biden from the 1988 presidential race, though Biden's campaign team called the latest episode an error that was corrected.

    “Several citations, some from sources cited in other parts of the plan, were inadvertently left out of the final version of the 22 page document,” a Biden spokesperson said in an email. “As soon as we were made aware of it, we updated to include the proper citations.”

    The horror. He lost my vote now.  Trump 2020.
    You can't even see it being a bit funny a known plagiariser (plural) getting "caught" doing it again? Can not even see it just a little?
    No,  the times are too important to focus on such meaningless issues,  particularly when the items were cited elsewhere,  and Biden certainly didn't write it.  It's as irrelevant to me as Warren's native American deal.  Who cares.  
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    jeffbr said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    That is just so sad that people already seem to think Biden is the one who might be the only one who can get this done. So, so sad.
    It is simply an acknowledgement that Biden is a "safe" vote. The best candidate doesn't always get the nomination. The best candidate doesn't always win the election. Biden is a known quantity, who isn't necessarily a polarizing figure. Moderates make up a critical mass, so it only makes sense that someone like Biden would automatically assume the role of front-runner. And he polls well against Trump. My only care in 2020 is that a Dem beats Trump. So I'm perfectly happy that a Dem who polls well against Trump is currently the front-runner. Biden just polled 12 points higher than Trump in North Carolina.
    Yes. I do understand that. 

    But I also think that "safe" can backfire. Hillary was safe.

    And if a Sanders/Warren/openly Gay Pete wins by 5 points instead of "back to same old" wins by 12, then that is a bigger swing and statement. And a few steps towards the US opens up for "positive progress" and not going back to an old white dude who supported helping W Bush impress daddy Bush Sr with a war.

    In short:


    I'm less interested this time around in "sending a message." Lots of people "sent messages" last election (including me) when they didn't like either candidate. Sending messages rather than voting for someone who can win can have dire consequences, and helped usher in the Trump era. I'm going to back the front runner this time around. Again, I don't care if it is Biden or Mayor Pete. Whomever is polling best, whichever candidate has the best shot at dethroning Trump gets my vote. No other message needs to be sent.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,715
    edited June 2019
    I think anyone who isn't a Trumpster and who doesn't just back the Dem nominee this time around, no matter who it ends up being, is being outrageously selfish and irresponsible to be perfectly honest.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone who isn't a Trumpster and who doesn't just back the Dem nominee this time around is being outrageously selfish and irresponsible to be perfectly honest.
    The hard core Bernie bros are making this threat for any moderate that wins. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,715
    edited June 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone who isn't a Trumpster and who doesn't just back the Dem nominee this time around is being outrageously selfish and irresponsible to be perfectly honest.
    The hard core Bernie bros are making this threat for any moderate that wins. 
    Yeah, well I think that's disgusting and stupid. But I also think they will back down on that threat once all is said and done, if Bernie doesn't win (I would not be disappointed if Bernie won btw - I have always like him). They are saying that because they think it strengthens their current cause (they are probably wrong about that).
    Anyway, in the meantime, I see no reason for anyone not to be bold in their support for or opposition of any of the primary candidates.... just as long as it doesn't turn into fucking Hillary-hate again, against whoever wins the nomination.

    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone who isn't a Trumpster and who doesn't just back the Dem nominee this time around is being outrageously selfish and irresponsible to be perfectly honest.
    The hard core Bernie bros are making this threat for any moderate that wins. 
    Yeah, well I think that's disgusting and stupid. But I also think they will back down on that threat once all is said and done, if Bernie doesn't win (I would would not be disappointed if Bernie won btw - I have always like him). They are saying that because they think it strengthens their current cause (they are probably wrong about that).
    Anyway, in the meantime, I see no reason for anyone not to be bold in their support for or opposition of any of the primary candidates.... just as long as it doesn't turn into fucking Hillary-hate again, against whoever wins the nomination.

    I hope you're right.  That was definitely a factor in 16.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    edited June 2019
    mrussel1 said:

    That was definitely a factor in 16.

    .Is there data of it actually being a factor?

    How many never-Hillarys Bernie Bros were there in the swingstates?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:

    That was definitely a factor in 16.

    .Is there data of it actually being a factor?

    How many never-Hillarys Bernie Bros were there in the swingstates?
    The data is available.  Do the research.  I have already.  It exists.  
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:

    That was definitely a factor in 16.

    .Is there data of it actually being a factor?

    How many never-Hillarys Bernie Bros were there in the swingstates?
    The data is available.  Do the research.  I have already.  It exists.  
    I take your word for it.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    edited June 2019
    More Joe "back to the status quo and why not invade Iraq" Biden:

    https://www.vox.com/2019/6/5/18653660/joe-biden-hyde-amendment-bernie-sanders-2020

    Joe Biden says his views on abortion have evolved over time, but this week his campaign said he still supports a ban on government funding for abortion in most cases.

    The Biden campaign told NBC News that the candidate supports the Hyde Amendment, the network reported on Wednesday. That’s consistent with his votes over the years. He voted several times in the Senate to ban federal funding for abortions, even in cases of rape or incest.

    /.../

    regarded as untouchable by Democratic candidates. But more recently, thanks in part to grassroots activism arguing that abortion needs to be not just legal but affordable, candidates have begun calling for repeal.

    Hillary Clinton did so in 2016 and a number of Democrats, including Pete Buttigieg and Sens. Gillibrand, Harris, Klobuchar, and Warren, have done so this year. Sen. Bernie Sanders criticized Biden’s position on Wednesday. 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    If they do not fund cancer treatments or other heinous illness's, why should the government fund abortions...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    edited June 2019
    No one I have ever voted for in my life needed to "evolve" on the views of abortion to begin with.

    What a nutty thing to have to evolve on.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,715
    Meltdown99 said:
    If they do not fund cancer treatments or other heinous illness's, why should the government fund abortions...
    The government funding abortions really isn't the leading concern at this point.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    edited June 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    If they do not fund cancer treatments or other heinous illness's, why should the government fund abortions...
    The government funding abortions really isn't the leading concern at this point.
    If there are no abortions - there are no abortions to have to help fund


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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