What people are forgetting is that once he was captive he wasn’t allowed to take phone calls from his parents at 21 what do you think he felt like ? Maybe if he was allowed to talk to them they could if talked him into just waiting to be released but that’s water under bridge , I’m not believing that he tried to commit suicide not for a 2nd he was murdered there in NK and the evil rocket prick is responsible for his death !
Did you read the article? the evidence simply does not support that theory. the kims are horrible disgusting people who commit despicable atrocities on their own people, but evidence shows they don't treat foreign prisoners the same way. i'm not saying that gives him a pass. i'm saying that it's unlikely that they are responsible for otto's death.
“Responsible” in the larger sense, I assume Jose means; at least that’s what I would say.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
What people are forgetting is that once he was captive he wasn’t allowed to take phone calls from his parents at 21 what do you think he felt like ? Maybe if he was allowed to talk to them they could if talked him into just waiting to be released but that’s water under bridge , I’m not believing that he tried to commit suicide not for a 2nd he was murdered there in NK and the evil rocket prick is responsible for his death !
Did you read the article? the evidence simply does not support that theory. the kims are horrible disgusting people who commit despicable atrocities on their own people, but evidence shows they don't treat foreign prisoners the same way. i'm not saying that gives him a pass. i'm saying that it's unlikely that they are responsible for otto's death.
What people are forgetting is that once he was captive he wasn’t allowed to take phone calls from his parents at 21 what do you think he felt like ? Maybe if he was allowed to talk to them they could if talked him into just waiting to be released but that’s water under bridge , I’m not believing that he tried to commit suicide not for a 2nd he was murdered there in NK and the evil rocket prick is responsible for his death !
Did you read the article? the evidence simply does not support that theory. the kims are horrible disgusting people who commit despicable atrocities on their own people, but evidence shows they don't treat foreign prisoners the same way. i'm not saying that gives him a pass. i'm saying that it's unlikely that they are responsible for otto's death.
“Responsible” in the larger sense, I assume Jose means; at least that’s what I would say.
jose said he was murdered. which doesn't sound like the truth. but who knows.
Looking at the situation objectively (yes, easy not knowing the kid and sitting here in the cheap seats) I certainly agree that it was wrong for the kid to get killed and a terrible tragedy for his family and friends but at the same time, it was a foolish mistake on the kid's part and he put his life on the line for no reason. They failed, he failed. Clusterfuck is the word that comes to mind.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
What people are forgetting is that once he was captive he wasn’t allowed to take phone calls from his parents at 21 what do you think he felt like ? Maybe if he was allowed to talk to them they could if talked him into just waiting to be released but that’s water under bridge , I’m not believing that he tried to commit suicide not for a 2nd he was murdered there in NK and the evil rocket prick is responsible for his death !
Did you read the article? the evidence simply does not support that theory. the kims are horrible disgusting people who commit despicable atrocities on their own people, but evidence shows they don't treat foreign prisoners the same way. i'm not saying that gives him a pass. i'm saying that it's unlikely that they are responsible for otto's death.
“Responsible” in the larger sense, I assume Jose means; at least that’s what I would say.
jose said he was murdered. which doesn't sound like the truth. but who knows.
I’m just not believing he committed suicide by choice how do we know he wasn’t drugged with an agent to totally screw up his thinking , unless the writers are inside NK documenting how prisoners are treated I’m not believing these articles..
Family says his teeth were horribly mangled...... medical examiner said his teeth were fine
Family said his arms and legs looked misformed... said he looked like he had been horribly tortured....... american intelligence says they had info he was beaten and tortured.......... medical examiner says he showed no signs of beatings, or torture
21 year old top of his class... best and brightest.... all american........ goes to cuba........ goes to NK....... unnacounted for by his group for a few hours........ only one person actually see's him get taken away....... only 1 picture of the guy when he returns on a stretcher..........
Keep believing those "sources" and everything being spoonfed to us...........
I don’t think the U.S. should spend one second on bringing an American tourist home from North Korea. Like a parent tells a kid don’t touch that stove or you will get burned, so does the USA tell its citizens not to go to North Korea. Such an incredibly selfish thing to do. It isn’t just this kid that is at risk when he went there, but he can create a conflict between nations by going there.
It is sad for the family, but he put himself in that situation and only has himself to blame. Do you blame the lion when someone walks into its cage and gets mauled?
What happened to him is exactly why he went to North Korea. He went there because it is a country that does this to its visitors and he wanted the rush of traveling in a dangerous place. He didn’t deserve what happened to him, but he knew the odds and lost.
What happened to him is exactly why he went to North Korea. He went there because it is a country that does this to its visitors and he wanted the rush of traveling in a dangerous place. He didn’t deserve what happened to him, but he knew the odds and lost.
Jesus Christ the lack of sympathy and empathy some of you have for a fellow human being’s life is seriously fucking disturbing.
And your false outrage is pathetic. You don’t see the big picture in this at all. This dumbass wanting to go party in a dangerous place could have impacted millions of people. What if a seal team would have been sent in to get him? Instead of trying to get the other three US prisoners there the US was spending political capital trying to get Otto back because again, he wanted to tell his friends he spent New Years in North Korea. You completely and utterly fail to see the big picture. Decisions have ramifications. We feel bad for the family still but also have brains. His family must be filled with sadness, embarrassment and guilt.
Tell me, why did he go to North Korea? You can’t answer that question truthfully without contradicting yourself.
If he was smart enough to travel abroad and study abroad, then he should be smart enough to know that there is a huge risk of travelling to any country, but a bigger risk of travelling to countries like NK who hope Americans who visit there will do something stupid so they have a propaganda tool to parade out to the world...he made the choice to go there.
Family says his teeth were horribly mangled...... medical examiner said his teeth were fine
Family said his arms and legs looked misformed... said he looked like he had been horribly tortured....... american intelligence says they had info he was beaten and tortured.......... medical examiner says he showed no signs of beatings, or torture
21 year old top of his class... best and brightest.... all american........ goes to cuba........ goes to NK....... unnacounted for by his group for a few hours........ only one person actually see's him get taken away....... only 1 picture of the guy when he returns on a stretcher..........
Keep believing those "sources" and everything being spoonfed to us...........
Jesus Christ the lack of sympathy and empathy some of you have for a fellow human being’s life is seriously fucking disturbing.
And your false outrage is pathetic. You don’t see the big picture in this at all. This dumbass wanting to go party in a dangerous place could have impacted millions of people. What if a seal team would have been sent in to get him? Instead of trying to get the other three US prisoners there the US was spending political capital trying to get Otto back because again, he wanted to tell his friends he spent New Years in North Korea. You completely and utterly fail to see the big picture. Decisions have ramifications. We feel bad for the family still but also have brains. His family must be filled with sadness, embarrassment and guilt.
Tell me, why did he go to North Korea? You can’t answer that question truthfully without contradicting yourself.
Doesn’t mean he deserved to fucking die. No matter which way he died. False outrage? Fuck off. I’m pretty fucking disappointed in people here saying shit like “he was stupid and got what he deserved” or “he gambled and lost” or “decisions have ramifications.” It’s a fucking human life. He doesn’t deserve to die no matter what decisions, risks, etc. That’s all I’m saying. Show some fucking respect for a life.
I agree with Dyer. The guy was only 21. Every last one of us did reckless and ill-advised things when we were that age. Most of us were lucky enough to come out unscathed but that doesn’t mean we were smarter or deserved it more, we were just luckier.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I agree with Dyer. The guy was only 21. Every last one of us did reckless and ill-advised things when we were that age. Most of us were lucky enough to come out unscathed but that doesn’t mean we were smarter or deserved it more, we were just luckier.
I agree too. What the kid did was dumb (that can't be argued) but he didn't deserve to die. If I died for every dumb thing I've done, I be dead several times over. In fact, it's pretty fucking amazing I'm not dead. But the things I did that cold have killed me? Pretty fucking dumb!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I never said he deserved to die. He decided to enter a cage with a monster in it though, knowing the U.S. government said not to go there and that they cannot help you there. There will be a special place in hell for the leaders of North Korea, but this guy entered a cage with a monster. He created a national incident by his selfishness. He used up political capital that could have helped other prisoners.
This is not a stupid teenage decision. Hundreds of millions of Americans each year do not get captured in North Korea. When you are the 1 American out of 300M+ Americans that gets captured in North Korea, then you either made an incredibly dumb decision or you made a decision knowing the risks. This guy (yes, a guy and not a kid), is no different than any other adventure seeker like a mountain climber who falls to their death. It was a known outcome going in.
Jesus Christ the lack of sympathy and empathy some of you have for a fellow human being’s life is seriously fucking disturbing.
And your false outrage is pathetic. You don’t see the big picture in this at all. This dumbass wanting to go party in a dangerous place could have impacted millions of people. What if a seal team would have been sent in to get him? Instead of trying to get the other three US prisoners there the US was spending political capital trying to get Otto back because again, he wanted to tell his friends he spent New Years in North Korea. You completely and utterly fail to see the big picture. Decisions have ramifications. We feel bad for the family still but also have brains. His family must be filled with sadness, embarrassment and guilt.
Tell me, why did he go to North Korea? You can’t answer that question truthfully without contradicting yourself.
Doesn’t mean he deserved to fucking die. No matter which way he died. False outrage? Fuck off. I’m pretty fucking disappointed in people here saying shit like “he was stupid and got what he deserved” or “he gambled and lost” or “decisions have ramifications.” It’s a fucking human life. He doesn’t deserve to die no matter what decisions, risks, etc. That’s all I’m saying. Show some fucking respect for a life.
This is beyond ridiculous. He didn’t die of cancer, of being hit by a drunk driver, or falling off a bike and hitting his head. He died because he was sealing an adventure in a dangerous country and experienced why it was dangerous. I don’t want my government spending any political capital or risking a military conflict over someone that does this.
As for the comments about "sources", of course you need to be cognizant of your sources. That includes not just their motivations but also their knowledge base, their competency as a source, so to speak. Mr. and Mrs. Warmbier sent off a healthy young son in the prime of his life and a year and a half later got back a severely brain damaged body within days of death. Of course they were shocked and horrified and unable to comprehend what was going on, as anyone would be. Many changes happen to a body over weeks and months after severe brain damage. We really don't know when the injury occurred, and I don't think we should necessarily take NK's word for that, but if the trach scar was fully healed it's likely it was at least several weeks and more likely several months. When the parents talk about his limbs being twisted or malformed, it's likely that there was decerebrate or decorticate posturing, a direct result of the lack of CNS and peripheral nerve activity. The article was vague on the results of the brain scans, so it's hard to tell, but if it's true that there was no sign of either bony damage, like a skull fracture, or localized brain damage from direct trauma or a bleed, then the most likely alternative for such widespread damage is anoxia (which of course doesn't necessarily mean that he caused it himself). As for the bit about his teeth being "rearranged", that just can't happen. Teeth can be cracked or broken, they can be knocked or pulled out, or very, very slowly over time with incremental pressure can be shifted somewhat (i.e. orthodontics), but if they are traumatically knocked or pulled out of their socket, they will die and fall out. I have a lot of sympathy for the Warmbiers, but regarding the medical facts I'll believe the medical professionals.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I wondered that too but I think there would have been body trauma related to that. I guess I'm surprised that NK wouldn't have disclosed that if it were the case.
I cannot imagine the anguish that the parents must be feeling...probably a lot of "why didn't I refuse to let him go?" type stuff that would be drumming through my mind at every waking moment.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I wondered that too but I think there would have been body trauma related to that. I guess I'm surprised that NK wouldn't have disclosed that if it were the case.
I cannot imagine the anguish that the parents must be feeling...probably a lot of "why didn't I refuse to let him go?" type stuff that would be drumming through my mind at every waking moment.
Hanging generally causes soft tissue damage in the neck, which is quite obvious if it leads to death. However, since he survived, there was time for the soft tissue damage to heal. Hanging with a long drop generally causes spinal fracture, but if you don’t have the room to do that , it doesn’t.
I agree sbout the parents’ likely feelings of guilt and regret.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I wondered that too but I think there would have been body trauma related to that. I guess I'm surprised that NK wouldn't have disclosed that if it were the case.
I cannot imagine the anguish that the parents must be feeling...probably a lot of "why didn't I refuse to let him go?" type stuff that would be drumming through my mind at every waking moment.
Hanging generally causes soft tissue damage in the neck, which is quite obvious if it leads to death. However, since he survived, there was time for the soft tissue damage to heal. Hanging with a long drop generally causes spinal fracture, but if you don’t have the room to do that , it doesn’t.
I agree sbout the parents’ likely feelings of guilt and regret.
That's a good theory...after reading that article I tend to not agree with the torture theories...other than mental torture maybe
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I wondered that too but I think there would have been body trauma related to that. I guess I'm surprised that NK wouldn't have disclosed that if it were the case.
I cannot imagine the anguish that the parents must be feeling...probably a lot of "why didn't I refuse to let him go?" type stuff that would be drumming through my mind at every waking moment.
Hanging generally causes soft tissue damage in the neck, which is quite obvious if it leads to death. However, since he survived, there was time for the soft tissue damage to heal. Hanging with a long drop generally causes spinal fracture, but if you don’t have the room to do that , it doesn’t.
I agree sbout the parents’ likely feelings of guilt and regret.
That's a good theory...after reading that article I tend to not agree with the torture theories...other than mental torture maybe
Mental torture I’m fairly certain about, given the report of former prisoners.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I wondered that too but I think there would have been body trauma related to that. I guess I'm surprised that NK wouldn't have disclosed that if it were the case.
I cannot imagine the anguish that the parents must be feeling...probably a lot of "why didn't I refuse to let him go?" type stuff that would be drumming through my mind at every waking moment.
Hanging generally causes soft tissue damage in the neck, which is quite obvious if it leads to death. However, since he survived, there was time for the soft tissue damage to heal. Hanging with a long drop generally causes spinal fracture, but if you don’t have the room to do that , it doesn’t.
I agree sbout the parents’ likely feelings of guilt and regret.
That's a good theory...after reading that article I tend to not agree with the torture theories...other than mental torture maybe
Mental torture I’m fairly certain about, given the report of former prisoners.
It's just so fucking sad....they likely would have released him as a good faith measure. That would have been something that tRump did correctly.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Comments
www.headstonesband.com
Family said his arms and legs looked misformed... said he looked like he had been horribly tortured....... american intelligence says they had info he was beaten and tortured.......... medical examiner says he showed no signs of beatings, or torture
21 year old top of his class... best and brightest.... all american........ goes to cuba........ goes to NK....... unnacounted for by his group for a few hours........ only one person actually see's him get taken away....... only 1 picture of the guy when he returns on a stretcher..........
Keep believing those "sources" and everything being spoonfed to us...........
It is sad for the family, but he put himself in that situation and only has himself to blame. Do you blame the lion when someone walks into its cage and gets mauled?
Tell me, why did he go to North Korea? You can’t answer that question truthfully without contradicting yourself.
This is not a stupid teenage decision. Hundreds of millions of Americans each year do not get captured in North Korea. When you are the 1 American out of 300M+ Americans that gets captured in North Korea, then you either made an incredibly dumb decision or you made a decision knowing the risks. This guy (yes, a guy and not a kid), is no different than any other adventure seeker like a mountain climber who falls to their death. It was a known outcome going in.
I cannot imagine the anguish that the parents must be feeling...probably a lot of "why didn't I refuse to let him go?" type stuff that would be drumming through my mind at every waking moment.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I agree sbout the parents’ likely feelings of guilt and regret.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana