New Gillette add "Toxic Masculinity" is causing quite a stir!

PJPOWER

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

ed243421 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRyUlbgWCP0

There was the tomahawk chop.  Finally got to see it.

Thanks

Wait - did I miss it? I saw 1 kid with like a half assed chop a couple of times. Was there more?

2 kids in the first 30 seconds when they pan over to the right.  It is there, so I will not take that away from anyone but from what I read it was the whole crowd.

I finally saw the other kids. A couple of chops. That’s partially why teams need to change their mascots, names, logos. It’s literally the first thing these kids think of when they hear that type of music.

Right, ever seen an Atlanta Braves game when the entire crowd was doing the chop?  As if these kids knew what he was doing when he walked up.  Did he come up and say “This is an ancestral unity chant”?  For all they knew it could be a battle chant, lol

Ledbetterman10

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

tempo_n_groove

PJPOWER said:

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

ed243421 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRyUlbgWCP0

There was the tomahawk chop.  Finally got to see it.

Thanks

Wait - did I miss it? I saw 1 kid with like a half assed chop a couple of times. Was there more?

2 kids in the first 30 seconds when they pan over to the right.  It is there, so I will not take that away from anyone but from what I read it was the whole crowd.

I finally saw the other kids. A couple of chops. That’s partially why teams need to change their mascots, names, logos. It’s literally the first thing these kids think of when they hear that type of music.

Right, ever seen an Atlanta Braves game when the entire crowd was doing the chop?  As if these kids knew what he was doing when he walked up. 

They at least got rid of Chief Knockahoma

mcgruff10

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

ed243421 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRyUlbgWCP0

There was the tomahawk chop.  Finally got to see it.

Thanks

Wait - did I miss it? I saw 1 kid with like a half assed chop a couple of times. Was there more?

I saw the group surround the drummer and then the majority of them started chanting "like Natives" while laughing, and jumping up and down, and yes, while doing the tomahawk chop as well. And then smug face Joe stepped up to the drummer and put the cherry on top of the whole thing. That is definitely mocking a First Nations elder who had just literally stopped an ugly situation they were in from getting uglier. The weird thing is that they had ZERO motivation to act like that. The drummer really didn't do anything wrong at all, and the kids really didn't act like he did either. They all just seemed to automatically default to mocking him, as though they've done it a ton of times before in other venues as a group (which is proven, I suppose, but those photos of them IN BLACKFACE WHILE MOCKING A BLACK KID at a basketball game. They very clearly already have an establish habit of behaving this way).

PJ_Soul

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

But they guy wasn't in HIS face. The kid stepped up to the Drummer. ALL the kids actually surrounded the drummer the second he stepped between them and horrible freaks who were verbally abusing the teens. Why do people keep saying the drummer got in his face? That just isn't what happened. The drummer was literally left with no place to go at all once those kids surrounded him for some mysterious reason.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

Maybe it is because I am around teenagers all day but to me they weren't acting aggressive at all.  They were acting like typical asshole teenagers.  

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

Maybe it is because I am around teenagers all day but to me they weren't acting aggressive at all.  They were acting like typical asshole teenagers.  

If that's how typical teenagers act like where you're from, then America really DOES have a huge, huge problem, and it makes this story even more relevant.

(I'm wondering if you need to step back and think about how insensitive you've become to bad behaviour from teenagers man - sounds like you're desensitized, which couldn't be good. Parents and educators should have high expectations, no??)

mace1229

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Meltdown99 said:

Nathan Phillips (activist)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Phillips_(activist)

Criminal record

According to local news reports from Lincoln obtained by the Washington Examiner, Phillips was charged with numerous crimes in the 1970s including a charge for escaping from prison in 1974; a charge of assault in 1974; multiple charges for underage possession of alcohol in 1972, 1973, and 1975; and negligent driving and driving without a license in 1978.[1][8]

Military service

Phillips is a Vietnam era veteran who served in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserves[9] from 20 May 1972 to 5 May 1976[10], though he never deployed to Vietnam.[11] From October 1972 to February 1973, he was an anti-tank missileman (infantry). He then served as a refrigerator technician for the remainder of his service. According to a FOIA response, Phillips was on active duty from 12 August 1974 to 5 May 1976 and was released as a private following disciplinary issues, including three AWOL incidents.[12][13][14][15]

In an interview with Vogue, Phillips said that "I'm what they call a recon ranger. That was my role".[13] This statement was questioned by Donald Shipley, who publicly outs false claims of military service. However, according to Daniel Paul Nelson, a Lakota People's Law Project leader, the quote was taken out of context, as Phillips was referring to work he was doing on the reservation.[13]

He does have a checkered past.  Nothing recently.  So, it appears he got his life in order years ago.

I never questioned Phillips' character actually.  That was the 70's, everyone did stupid shit back then.  Hell a few became president.

What I read from people is that kids yelled "build a wall" and did the tomahawk chop.

I am finding zero evidence of this.

The kids all looked to be involved in a mob like behavior.

Am I wrong on this?

Anyone?

All I see is 1 kid staring creepily at him. I've seen or heard nothing that support the claims of chanting "build a wall."
I honestly don't know why this is even a story.
The drummer obviously did nothing wrong. But is 1 creepy teenage kid giving you weird looks worth national headline news? Anyone who thinks so needs to get out more often.

Then you need to look harder.

That group of beautiful young boys was rogue that day. There are several documented accounts of them not only shitting all over Philips, but young women and others as well.

As an isolated event... not extremely noteworthy; however, as part of a mounting pile of brutal behaviour seemingly sparked by a hunkashit president... it belongs in the newsworthy catalogue for people concerned with social integrity.

I've watched 5 or 6 clips from FOX, to CNN to TMZ. Never heard anyone chant "build a wall" or mock him. Never saw anyone do anythign threatening. Never saw teenagers acting in a way other than what any typical teenager on a field trip does.
If you've seen video otherwise could you please share it?
The one clip that has been showed 100 times this week really doesn't show anything in my opinion. If there's something worse out there, I think the news would be leading with that.

There are three alternative clips already shared in this thread where (1) these losers are doing the 'Braves chant' and hopping around like they were surrounding a bonfire on the prairies... and (2) where they harassed two girls... and (3) where one member of the group- in mid harassment of some females- spoke to rape being okay if it was enjoyable.

Their entire day is not on film. These were just events that happened to be captured. Other accounts tell that these kids were doing the chop and some of the other things that cannot be proven with film. Decide for yourself who is most credible of the characters that day and choose what you want to believe.

Okay, so these kids did not have ideal behavior. But I still can't help but think this is grossly overblown.
One, Phillips did clearly approach the crowd, the kids did not approach him. Which I've said I don't have a problem with that, but then don't complain when you walk through a few hundred high-schoolers and they start acting goofy.
The clip showed above also showed, in my opinion, Phillips to be more aggressive than anyone else. I had not seen a clip where he got that close to the kids face before. I don't know how someone can approach a crowd, bang a drum in someone's face while they stand there and do nothing, and say he was the aggressive one.
I did see 2 kids to I think 1 chop in that video. Okay, so what. 2 kids out of a few hundred did a chop after this guy walked through their group. I mean, they do that at Braves games, they probably didn't even think of it as offensive. You can see kids wrestling in the background, jumping up and down, I think I saw 1 kid try a breakdance move. Have you ever been in charge of a few hundred high school boys and try to keep them occupied for 5 minutes? I have. I can't imagine doing it for as long as these guys were waiting for the bus. I still don't see anything that I would say isn't normal for a group of teenage boys that big.
I just see this whole thing as a non-story. I still have no idea why it got so big.
Would I want my kids to behave that way? No, but then again I wouldn't want them doing 90% of what I see kids do in high school. If by the time my kids get to 18 and this is the worst thing they've done, I would have done a great job in raising them. 

cincybearcat

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

Maybe it is because I am around teenagers all day but to me they weren't acting aggressive at all.  They were acting like typical asshole teenagers.  

If that's how typical teenagers act like where you're from, then America really DOES have a huge, huge problem, and it makes this story even more relevant.

So now America has a huge, huge problem? Oh man, pretty soon it’ll be the universe has a huge huge problem since we are taking giant leaps from this.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

Maybe it is because I am around teenagers all day but to me they weren't acting aggressive at all.  They were acting like typical asshole teenagers.  

If that's how typical teenagers act like where you're from, then America really DOES have a huge, huge problem, and it makes this story even more relevant.

  you keep missing a key word, typical ASSHOLE teenagers.  This story gets zero traction if the kid isn't wearing a maga hat.  

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

Maybe it is because I am around teenagers all day but to me they weren't acting aggressive at all.  They were acting like typical asshole teenagers.  

If that's how typical teenagers act like where you're from, then America really DOES have a huge, huge problem, and it makes this story even more relevant.

So now America has a huge, huge problem? Oh man, pretty soon it’ll be the universe has a huge huge problem since we are taking giant leaps from this.

Yes, America has several huge, huge problems. Surely you agree with that at least???

cincybearcat

And I have no idea what video you are watching. That kid stands in 1 place and the drummer walks straight up to him. Kid is smiling and seems to enjoy it. Dude never leave. Kid clearly starts to feel awkward and has no idea what to do. 

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

Maybe it is because I am around teenagers all day but to me they weren't acting aggressive at all.  They were acting like typical asshole teenagers.  

If that's how typical teenagers act like where you're from, then America really DOES have a huge, huge problem, and it makes this story even more relevant.

So now America has a huge, huge problem? Oh man, pretty soon it’ll be the universe has a huge huge problem since we are taking giant leaps from this.

Yes, America has several huge, huge problems. Surely you agree with that at least???

So in Canada, if you get a few hundred teenage boys waiting around for a bus, they are just going to stand there calmly and not act goofy? I'll be honest, I just don't believe that. And thats really all I consider this, just being goofy. I see nothing that makes me think they were trying to be aggressive or offensive or start anything.

Ledbetterman10

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

But they guy wasn't in HIS face. The kid stepped up to the Drummer. ALL the kids actually surrounded the drummer the second he stepped between them and horrible freaks who were verbally abusing the teens. Why do people keep saying the drummer got in his face? That just isn't what happened. The drummer was literally left with no place to go at all once those kids surrounded him for some mysterious reason.

Okay so the kid stepping up backs up my claim that the kid's a douche. Just some kid looking for attention. As far as the kids mysteriously surrounding him, to play devil's advocate for the kids because it is kinda strange, he's a street performer with an instrument making noise...and sometimes people gather around to see what's going on with stuff like that. I guess? God knows I wouldn't be interested in some beating a drum and chanting shit. 

I dunno, I just wonder how this would be perceived if it wasn't a Native American and "white kids in MAGA hats."

The saddest part of the video and the real thing we should be having a national conversation about was the kid at the 18-second mark wearing a Miami Dolphins hat. Sure a red MAGA hat may lead people to call you a racist or a fascist, but that's not as bad as being called a Dolphins fan! 

Full disclosure: I'm a Dolphins fan. 

mace1229

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

After watching the video, I don't see why people have a problem with the kid that just stood there staring without saying a word. Is he being a douche by doing that? I guess. But the guy with the drum is right in his face. You can argue he's invading the kid's personal space. 

I actual think the old dude is more to blame than the kid.  The kid literally does nothing except have a dumb ass smirk and a maga hat.  How the hell are they supposed to know that the old guy is playing some ancestral unity chant.  

What is the old dude to blame for? Those kids surrounded him, not the other way around.

If I was that kid I would have reacted the same way.  I'd be thinking to myself, "why the hell is this old dude banging a drum in my face?  Holy shit this is awkward."

And what would you be thinking about when you decided with the rest of your schoolmates to circle around an old man playing a drum and jeer and chant and get in his face as an aggressive group? You're acting like someone forced that kid to stand in front of the guy. It makes literally no sense.

Maybe it is because I am around teenagers all day but to me they weren't acting aggressive at all.  They were acting like typical asshole teenagers.  

If that's how typical teenagers act like where you're from, then America really DOES have a huge, huge problem, and it makes this story even more relevant.

  you keep missing a key word, typical ASSHOLE teenagers.  This story gets zero traction if the kid isn't wearing a maga hat.  

100%. Or if they weren't white. Or if Phillips wasn't a minority. But they all were and its something I guess the media loves to run with. 

mcgruff10

cincybearcat said:

And I have no idea what video you are watching. That kid stands in 1 place and the drummer walks straight up to him. Kid is smiling and seems to enjoy it. Dude never leave. Kid clearly starts to feel awkward and has no idea what to do. 

That’s the way I see it. Old dude made things waaay awkward.