Paris protest: ‘People are in the red. They can’t afford to eat’ Kim Willsher in Paris The Observer

Meltdown99

Paris protest: ‘People are in the red. They can’t afford to eat’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/24/paris-fuel-tax-protest-macron-france-poverty?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR1OwGYE9QBAHT6e_F9GXXVxiY4YwUK7aYj-uusZps8rxaslAKLV766mbWw

brianlux

I saw a bit on this on the news last night.  Seems the biggest issue is fuel costs.  Is that fuel for vehicles or fuel for heating?  I thought most people in Paris used public transit. 

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

I saw a bit on this on the news last night.  Seems the biggest issue is fuel costs.  Is that fuel for vehicles or fuel for heating?  I thought most people in Paris used public transit. 

From what I gather taxes, in general, have been rising.  

From the article...To give you an example; my aunt died recently and left €40,000. She worked all her life, she paid her taxes and charges, but the government took 60% of that. Does that seem fair?

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I saw a bit on this on the news last night.  Seems the biggest issue is fuel costs.  Is that fuel for vehicles or fuel for heating?  I thought most people in Paris used public transit. 

From what I gather taxes, in general, have been rising.  

From the article...To give you an example; my aunt died recently and left €40,000. She worked all her life, she paid her taxes and charges, but the government took 60% of that. Does that seem fair?

60%?  Hell no!  Not fair.

CM189191

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I saw a bit on this on the news last night.  Seems the biggest issue is fuel costs.  Is that fuel for vehicles or fuel for heating?  I thought most people in Paris used public transit. 

From what I gather taxes, in general, have been rising.  

From the article...To give you an example; my aunt died recently and left €40,000. She worked all her life, she paid her taxes and charges, but the government took 60% of that. Does that seem fair?

60%?  Hell no!  Not fair.

It also appears to be a lie.  I'd like to see the math on that 60% figure.

"In practice, less than 50% of inhabitants in France pay any income tax at all; only around 14% pay at the rate of 30%, and less than 1% pay at the rate of 45%."

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/calculation-tax-liability/rates

brianlux

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I saw a bit on this on the news last night.  Seems the biggest issue is fuel costs.  Is that fuel for vehicles or fuel for heating?  I thought most people in Paris used public transit. 

From what I gather taxes, in general, have been rising.  

From the article...To give you an example; my aunt died recently and left €40,000. She worked all her life, she paid her taxes and charges, but the government took 60% of that. Does that seem fair?

60%?  Hell no!  Not fair.

It also appears to be a lie.  I'd like to see the math on that 60% figure.

"In practice, less than 50% of inhabitants in France pay any income tax at all; only around 14% pay at the rate of 30%, and less than 1% pay at the rate of 45%."

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/calculation-tax-liability/rates

A lie?  I don't think Meltdown would post a lie.  A mistake, a misunderstand, an inaccuracy (maybe, who am I to say?) but a lie?  Sounds like a harsh accusation CM.  Am I missing something here?

CM189191

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I saw a bit on this on the news last night.  Seems the biggest issue is fuel costs.  Is that fuel for vehicles or fuel for heating?  I thought most people in Paris used public transit. 

From what I gather taxes, in general, have been rising.  

From the article...To give you an example; my aunt died recently and left €40,000. She worked all her life, she paid her taxes and charges, but the government took 60% of that. Does that seem fair?

60%?  Hell no!  Not fair.

It also appears to be a lie.  I'd like to see the math on that 60% figure.

"In practice, less than 50% of inhabitants in France pay any income tax at all; only around 14% pay at the rate of 30%, and less than 1% pay at the rate of 45%."

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/calculation-tax-liability/rates

A lie?  I don't think Meltdown would post a lie.  A mistake, a misunderstand, an inaccuracy (maybe, who am I to say?) but a lie?  Sounds like a harsh accusation CM.  Am I missing something here?

Relax, Not calling meltdown a liar, they were paraphrasing the article.  The person being interviewed for the article appears to be lying. 

I still wanna see the math.

brianlux

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I saw a bit on this on the news last night.  Seems the biggest issue is fuel costs.  Is that fuel for vehicles or fuel for heating?  I thought most people in Paris used public transit. 

From what I gather taxes, in general, have been rising.  

From the article...To give you an example; my aunt died recently and left €40,000. She worked all her life, she paid her taxes and charges, but the government took 60% of that. Does that seem fair?

60%?  Hell no!  Not fair.

It also appears to be a lie.  I'd like to see the math on that 60% figure.

"In practice, less than 50% of inhabitants in France pay any income tax at all; only around 14% pay at the rate of 30%, and less than 1% pay at the rate of 45%."

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/calculation-tax-liability/rates

A lie?  I don't think Meltdown would post a lie.  A mistake, a misunderstand, an inaccuracy (maybe, who am I to say?) but a lie?  Sounds like a harsh accusation CM.  Am I missing something here?

Relax, Not calling meltdown a liar, they were paraphrasing the article.  The person being interviewed for the article appears to be lying. 

I still wanna see the math.

Cool.  Thanks for clarifying!

Meltdown99

I am just going by the article.  That's all. I do not live in France never been to France.  Just find the protesting interesting.

PJ_Soul

I do remember my French ex telling me that, way back in 2004, gas in France averaged around $6.50/gallon, and yes, the goal was to try and drive everyone out of their gas guzzling cars.

There is certainly a problem in Europe when it comes to the cost of consumer goods and most food in general though. The prices are fucking insane. I never really heard that taxes are so much the issue, compared to just the prices of goods. Also, they fucking have to pay for their water in France. Like, for how much you use. I can't imagine that. I know I'm saying that from a very privileged position though, as someone who lives where water is insanely bountiful.

WhatYouTaughtMe

PJ_Soul said:

I do remember my French ex telling me that, way back in 2004, gas in France averaged around $6.50/gallon, and yes, the goal was to try and drive everyone out of their gas guzzling cars.

There is certainly a problem in Europe when it comes to the cost of consumer goods and most food in general though. The prices are fucking insane. I never really heard that taxes are so much the issue, compared to just the prices of goods. Also, they fucking have to pay for their water in France. Like, for how much you use. I can't imagine that. I know I'm saying that from a very privileged position though, as someone who lives where water is insanely bountiful.

Woah, you don't have to pay for the water you use in your home? It's common in the states for apartment complexes to include it in the rent, but homeowners pay a water bill. Unless they have a well.

Meltdown99

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

PJ_Soul said:

I do remember my French ex telling me that, way back in 2004, gas in France averaged around $6.50/gallon, and yes, the goal was to try and drive everyone out of their gas guzzling cars.

There is certainly a problem in Europe when it comes to the cost of consumer goods and most food in general though. The prices are fucking insane. I never really heard that taxes are so much the issue, compared to just the prices of goods. Also, they fucking have to pay for their water in France. Like, for how much you use. I can't imagine that. I know I'm saying that from a very privileged position though, as someone who lives where water is insanely bountiful.

Woah, you don't have to pay for the water you use in your home? It's common in the states for apartment complexes to include it in the rent, but homeowners pay a water bill. Unless they have a well.

I pay a water bill in my home.  Most apartments include water in the rent. 

Annafalk

We pay for the water over here too.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

I do remember my French ex telling me that, way back in 2004, gas in France averaged around $6.50/gallon, and yes, the goal was to try and drive everyone out of their gas guzzling cars.

There is certainly a problem in Europe when it comes to the cost of consumer goods and most food in general though. The prices are fucking insane. I never really heard that taxes are so much the issue, compared to just the prices of goods. Also, they fucking have to pay for their water in France. Like, for how much you use. I can't imagine that. I know I'm saying that from a very privileged position though, as someone who lives where water is insanely bountiful.

Clarify the water.  In BC, do homeowners get free water?

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I do remember my French ex telling me that, way back in 2004, gas in France averaged around $6.50/gallon, and yes, the goal was to try and drive everyone out of their gas guzzling cars.

There is certainly a problem in Europe when it comes to the cost of consumer goods and most food in general though. The prices are fucking insane. I never really heard that taxes are so much the issue, compared to just the prices of goods. Also, they fucking have to pay for their water in France. Like, for how much you use. I can't imagine that. I know I'm saying that from a very privileged position though, as someone who lives where water is insanely bountiful.

Clarify the water.  In BC, do homeowners get free water?

No no, not free running water. They pay an average of $500/year for water and sewage services through utility user fees and property taxes. What I meant is that in France they literally pay for it by the litre in the sense that they actually count the number of litres they use (or guesstimate). I.e., their kids play in a wading pool, and the parents need to time how long the hose is on to make sure they don't "go insane" with the water by filling the wading pool too much - the monthly water bill will be too big. This is unimaginable to me. Although it sure as hell does promote responsible water consumption. I'm glad I don't live where you actually have to worry about that (outside of a serious summer drought).

mcgruff10

We have water meters installed that tell you to the tenth of a gallon how much water you use. 

PJ_Soul

I think water meters are mandatory in brand new houses now? But anything built longer than maybe 5 or 10 years ago, no. Other surrounding cities brought them in earlier or later... many, many homes are still just paying flat rates. Sometimes that's the case for entire municipalities and cities still. The idea of "counting" our water is definitely not familiar to most.

Meltdown99

Stunned Parisians clean up posh central district after worst riots since 1968

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-protests-cleanup-idUSKBN1O10EQ?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5c03eda504d301119dc9c660&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2gWfkkjhuJ--SHMwz4CIQo9AyJv5HR8oDGlWJ_bK0FP9strZP9Er_tWp0

lastexitlondon

We also have water meters that count every drop and we pay accordingly.  I just had a bill today. Years ago people could water plants and clean cars and the such. But not anymore we get put on hosepipe bans .

PJ_Soul

lastexitlondon said:

We also have water meters that count every drop and we pay accordingly.  I just had a bill today. Years ago people could water plants and clean cars and the such. But not anymore we get put on hosepipe bans .

Hosepipe bans? You mean watering restrictions? We have those too, just about every summer these days, during droughts. They are by degree. Sometimes we get to water a couple days a week, on prescribed days, depending on the street address. It's not really because we don't have enough water here in metro Vancouver (and that's certainly the case is some places in BC). It's because our reservoir system is inadequate for the growing population and nobody seems to be planning on more reservoirs for some reason.

lastexitlondon

Yeah it's called a hosepipe ban here. If fuckin rains half the year and we still have no spare water. U.k is a wet place.  We have a minimal summer and it goes ape shit 

Meltdown99

I am surrounded by the great lakes, we have never been under a water.  Water is fairly cheap where I live.  If you wanna talk about hydro, that's a different story...it seems every government has fucked up hydro in some way, I fully expect the grid to crash...lol

PJ_Soul

lastexitlondon said:

Yeah it's called a hosepipe ban here. If fuckin rains half the year and we still have no spare water. U.k is a wet place.  We have a minimal summer and it goes ape shit 

Yeah, inadequate water storage facilities, obviously. It's crazy.

Smellyman

Every house on earth could collect and treat their won rainwater.  One of the strange things we don't do on our planet.

PJ_Soul

Smellyman said:

Every house on earth could collect and treat their won rainwater.  One of the strange things we don't do on our planet.

Yeah.... not if we actually want a treated running water system where we don't have to treat our own, which I'm sure most of us do. I know I do. Also, each person doing it themselves would put every individual at risk during drought.

oftenreading

I don’t think it’s a great idea to individually try to treat our drinking water - too much potential for error leading to water borne illness. However, collecting rainwater for the garden is another story. 

PJ_Soul

oftenreading said:

I don’t think it’s a great idea to individually try to treat our drinking water - too much potential for error leading to water borne illness. However, collecting rainwater for the garden is another story. 

Totally. Also, everyone collecting and treating their own would create a great new way to murder someone, haha. And then once drought comes and families start running out of water, here come the great civil water wars of the 21st Century, lol. Family against family. Sounds lovely.

Smellyman

rainwater > well water

PJ_Soul

Smellyman said:

rainwater > well water

I wouldn't know; I don't think I've ever drank well water in my whole life.

I do know that soft water is good and hard water is fucking horrible.

I am extremely happy with the current water system in my region ... They just need to built more reservoirs and probably another treatment plant to keep up with the growing population.

Of course nothing is stopping anyone from collecting their own rain water if they want to, and they can just stop paying for water service. Go for it Smellyman, and let us know how it works out!

tbergs

PJ_Soul said:

Smellyman said:

rainwater > well water

I wouldn't know; I don't think I've ever drank well water in my whole life.

I do know that soft water is good and hard water is fucking horrible.

I am extremely happy with the current water system in my region ... They just need to built more reservoirs and probably another treatment plant to keep up with the growing population.

Of course nothing is stopping anyone from collecting their own rain water if they want to, and they can just stop paying for water service. Go for it Smellyman, and let us know how it works out!

Clean rainwater is great. Depending upon where you live, well water may need salt for softening. We've lived in 2 rural homes and neither needed a water softener. Our current home has water that is right on the cusp of needing softening. Every once and awhile I throw a few bags in the softener, but honestly I don't notice much difference. 

As a kid I lived on a farm and the yard water hydrants always had the freshest coolest water. That hard water straight out of the ground was the best. I get why some wouldn't like it if you're used to softened treated water, but nothing was more refreshing after working in the barn or field all day.

I also have a 250 gallon container for rainwater that we never use up in the summer even though it only covers gutters off half of the house. We water all of our plants, gardens and chickens with it until mid November when the weather shifts to sub zero too much to keep it from freezing. 

Smellyman

PJ_Soul said:

Smellyman said:

rainwater > well water

I wouldn't know; I don't think I've ever drank well water in my whole life.

I do know that soft water is good and hard water is fucking horrible.

I am extremely happy with the current water system in my region ... They just need to built more reservoirs and probably another treatment plant to keep up with the growing population.

Of course nothing is stopping anyone from collecting their own rain water if they want to, and they can just stop paying for water service. Go for it Smellyman, and let us know how it works out!

There's tons of people that do it and it's just fine.  In BC you could have enough water after a couple of days rain.  No need to change/hurt the environment with reservoirs and pipe it for hundreds of miles. 

When I own my own place I will, but right now trying to talk my wife into buying a sailboat and living on board.  Will definitely do it then.    Boats even have water makers converting salt water to drinking water.  This isn't rocket science and easily done by average shmoes. 

Not saying get rid of all municipal water, but there would be no water shortage on earth if peeps got smart with it.

Check out this dude in AZ if you have the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcAMXm9zITg