What relevance does this have to people moving/living abroad?
Would like to know what "many" constitutes, with you stating that "many" has moved away from sweden and you are also stating that these jews and other Swedes moving abroad would be voting blue? Show me numbers on this, Aftonbladet states that if the voting abroad is similiar to in 2014 it will not affect the results.
Seems like you just blurt out (biased) things without any real knowledge of or information on the matter?
In that case, it seems both unnecessary and very much something from the far-right/Trump playbook -- "people are saying..."
We will just have to wait and see, I could be wrong and you could be right.
What relevance does this have to people moving/living abroad?
Would like to know what "many" constitutes, with you stating that "many" has moved away from sweden and you are also stating that these jews and other Swedes moving abroad would be voting blue? Show me numbers on this, Aftonbladet states that if the voting abroad is similiar to in 2014 it will not affect the results.
Seems like you just blurt out (biased) things without any real knowledge of or information on the matter?
In that case, it seems both unnecessary and very much something from the far-right/Trump playbook -- "people are saying..."
We will just have to wait and see, I could be wrong and you could be right.
Trump’s catchphrase for any circumstance: We’ll see
Why state stuff as facts, when you have to resort to "I dont know what Im saying, but who knows maybe in some way I could be right and that makes itvalid"?
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The thing is not about what we will see tomorrow -- but why someone chooses to blurt out things without any basis. And blurt it out as facts. And showing statistics that has nothing to do with their point their are stating as fact without basis.
The thing I'm commenting on, is you Annafalk and your careless and biased actions, Not what the results will be.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Interestingly enough, "relax" and "oh, don't be so angry" are rhetoric tactics to put down an opponent, notably used by The Swedish Democrats leader Jimmy Åkessons in this years debates against both Annie Lööf and Gustav Fridolin.
The thing is not about what we will see tomorrow -- but why someone chooses to blurt out things without any basis. And blurt it out as facts. And showing statistics that has nothing to do with their point their are stating as fact without basis.
The thing I'm commenting on, is you Annafalk and your careless and biased actions, Not what the results will be.
I said that I THINK they have voted blue, I never said it was a fact. You are overreacting I don't want to talk about this anymore.
The thing is not about what we will see tomorrow -- but why someone chooses to blurt out things without any basis. And blurt it out as facts. And showing statistics that has nothing to do with their point their are stating as fact without basis.
The thing I'm commenting on, is you Annafalk and your careless and biased actions, Not what the results will be.
I said that I THINK they have voted blue, I never said it was a fact. You are overreacting I don't want to talk about this anymore.
I am not pointing out that, bit what you said afterwards "Many that's moved abroad have been very disappointed in the politics held that they've left the country." and "The situation in Malmö for example, did you know many Jews has left the country because of harassment from Muslims ?"
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The data in this table surprised me enough to look up the source material. I read the Dencik & Marosi paper link http://archive.jpr.org.uk/download?id=2821 if anyone is interested) and skimmed the FRA paper. Interesting stuff and far more than I could include in a post. Overall takeaways seem to be that Sweden has a very low percentage of people with what they call "classic anti-semitism", which would generally be associated with right wing/Nazi ideals. However, there is a perception that what they call Israel-derived anti-semitism (i.e. anti-Israel sentiments) is higher, and concentrated in the Muslim population. Lots of discussion about how much of the fear is based on a realistic appraisal vs. otherwise. There is also an interesting bit about whether people who are anti-circumcision and/or against the principles of kosher slaughter practices should be considered anti-semitic, even if their concerns do not relate to religion but rather human or animal rights.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
The data in this table surprised me enough to look up the source material. I read the Dencik & Marosi paper link http://archive.jpr.org.uk/download?id=2821 if anyone is interested) and skimmed the FRA paper. Interesting stuff and far more than I could include in a post. Overall takeaways seem to be that Sweden has a very low percentage of people with what they call "classic anti-semitism", which would generally be associated with right wing/Nazi ideals. However, there is a perception that what they call Israel-derived anti-semitism (i.e. anti-Israel sentiments) is higher, and concentrated in the Muslim population. Lots of discussion about how much of the fear is based on a realistic appraisal vs. otherwise. There is also an interesting bit about whether people who are anti-circumcision and/or against the principles of kosher slaughter practices should be considered anti-semitic, even if their concerns do not relate to religion but rather human or animal rights.
But I think, what we all can take away from Annafalks statistic is that is has nothing to do with the thread or the discussion in here. It is completely moot and pointless. But she still felt the need to post it.
Here is another diagram, that we can discuss:
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The thing is not about what we will see tomorrow -- but why someone chooses to blurt out things without any basis. And blurt it out as facts. And showing statistics that has nothing to do with their point their are stating as fact without basis.
The thing I'm commenting on, is you Annafalk and your careless and biased actions, Not what the results will be.
I said that I THINK they have voted blue, I never said it was a fact. You are overreacting I don't want to talk about this anymore.
I am not pointing out that, bit what you said afterwards "Many that's moved abroad have been very disappointed in the politics held that they've left the country." and "The situation in Malmö for example, did you know many Jews has left the country because of harassment from Muslims ?"
And, you don't want to talk about this anymore? Convenient to just blurt out baseless(?) nonsense(?), without feeling responsible for what you say.
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Malmo's Jews, however, do not just point the finger at bigoted Muslims and their fellow racists in the country's Neo-Nazi fringe. They also accuse Ilmar Reepalu, the Left-wing mayor who has been in power for 15 years, of failing to protect them.
Mr Reepalu, who is blamed for lax policing, is at the centre of a growing controversy for saying that what the Jews perceive as naked anti-Semitism is in fact just a sad, but understandable consequence of Israeli policy in the Middle East.
While his views are far from unusual on the European liberal-left, which is often accused of a pro-Palestinian bias, his Jewish critics say they encourage young Muslim hotheads to abuse and harass them.
The future looks so bleak that by one estimate, around 30 Jewish families have already left for Stockholm, England or Israel, and more are preparing to go.
With its young people planning new lives elsewhere, the remaining Jewish households, many of whom are made up of Holocaust survivors and their descendants, fear they will soon be gone altogether. Mrs Popinski, an 86-year-old widow, said she has even encountered hostility when invited to talk about the Holocaust in schools.
"Muslim schoolchildren often ignore me now when I talk about my experiences in the camps," she said. "It is because of what their parents tell them about Jews. The hatreds of the Middle East have come to Malmo. Schools in Muslim areas of the city simply won't invite Holocaust survivors to speak any more."
Hate crimes, mainly directed against Jews, doubled last year with Malmo's police recording 79 incidents and admitting that far more probably went unreported. As of yet, no direct attacks on people have been recorded but many Jews believe it is only a matter of time in the current climate.
The city's synagogue has guards and rocket-proof glass in the windows, while the Jewish kindergarten can only be reached through thick steel security doors.
It is a far cry from the city Mrs Popinski arrived in 65 years ago, half-dead from starvation and typhus.
At Auschwitz she had been separated from her Polish family, all of whom were murdered. She escaped the gas chambers after being sent as a slave labourer. Then she was moved to a womens' concentration camp, Ravensbrück, from where she was then evacuated in a release deal negotiated between the Swedish Red Cross and senior Nazis, who were by then trying to save their own lives.
After the war, just as liberal Sweden took in Jews who survived the Holocaust as a humanitarian act, it also took in new waves of refugees from tyranny and conflicts in the Middle East. Muslims are now estimated to make up about a fifth of Malmo's population of nearly 300,000.
"This new hatred from a group 40,000-strong is focused on a small group of Jews," Mrs Popinski said, speaking in a sitting room filled with paintings and Persian carpets.
"Some Swedish politicians are letting them do it, including the mayor. Of course the Muslims have more votes than the Jews."
The worst incident was last year during Israel's brief war in Gaza, when a small demonstration in favour of Israel was attacked by a screaming mob of Arabs and Swedish leftists, who threw bottles and firecrackers as the police looked on.
"I haven't seen hatred like that for decades," Mrs Popinski said. "It reminded me of what I saw in my youth. Jews feel vulnerable here now."
The problem is becoming an embarrassment for the Social Democrats, the mayor's party.
His city was - until recently at least - a shining multicultural success story, and has taken in proportionally more refugees than anywhere else in Sweden, a record of which it is proud.
Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.
Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.
“Jews came to Sweden to get away from persecution, and now they find it is no longer a safe haven,” said Rabbi Shneur Kesselman, 31. “That is a horrible feeling.”
One who has had enough is Marcus Eilenberg, a 32-year-old Malmo-born lawyer, who is moving to Israel in April with his young family.
"Malmo has really changed in the past year," he said. "I am optimistic by nature, but I have no faith in a future here for my children. There is definitely a threat.
"This is happening all over Europe. I have cousins who are leaving their homes in Amsterdam and France for the same reason as me.
He said that the harassment of Jews by some young Muslims was "embarrassing" to his community.
Here is the latest from The Social Democratis on the matter of Government:
Anders Ygeman, Social Democrats group leader in parliament, says to Aftonbladet, regarding the information about the launch of explorations regarding Government forming:
"We are in touch with all parties except the Swedish Democrats, as we have said all the time.
It's not just about the government issue, there are also a number of things in the parliament that need to be resolved. This is for example about committee seats in the parliament.
Ygeman does not want to say plainly if it is himself who contacted other parties on behalf of the party leadership. He says, however, that he "as a group leader" is responsible for many contacts with other parties.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The data in this table surprised me enough to look up the source material. I read the Dencik & Marosi paper link http://archive.jpr.org.uk/download?id=2821 if anyone is interested) and skimmed the FRA paper. Interesting stuff and far more than I could include in a post. Overall takeaways seem to be that Sweden has a very low percentage of people with what they call "classic anti-semitism", which would generally be associated with right wing/Nazi ideals. However, there is a perception that what they call Israel-derived anti-semitism (i.e. anti-Israel sentiments) is higher, and concentrated in the Muslim population. Lots of discussion about how much of the fear is based on a realistic appraisal vs. otherwise. There is also an interesting bit about whether people who are anti-circumcision and/or against the principles of kosher slaughter practices should be considered anti-semitic, even if their concerns do not relate to religion but rather human or animal rights.
But I think, what we all can take away from Annafalks statistic is that is has nothing to do with the thread or the discussion in here. It is completely moot and pointless. But she still felt the need to post it.
Here is another diagram as valid, that we can discuss:
No, I disagree. The table posted is valid published data. Exactly what it means is definitely up for debate, though. Whether Swedish Jews are really more in danger from Muslims than from the right, the left, or other groups is also up for debate. Read the paper and see what you think.
I can't comment on whether it is relevant to the election results, though.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
The data in this table surprised me enough to look up the source material. I read the Dencik & Marosi paper link http://archive.jpr.org.uk/download?id=2821 if anyone is interested) and skimmed the FRA paper. Interesting stuff and far more than I could include in a post. Overall takeaways seem to be that Sweden has a very low percentage of people with what they call "classic anti-semitism", which would generally be associated with right wing/Nazi ideals. However, there is a perception that what they call Israel-derived anti-semitism (i.e. anti-Israel sentiments) is higher, and concentrated in the Muslim population. Lots of discussion about how much of the fear is based on a realistic appraisal vs. otherwise. There is also an interesting bit about whether people who are anti-circumcision and/or against the principles of kosher slaughter practices should be considered anti-semitic, even if their concerns do not relate to religion but rather human or animal rights.
But I think, what we all can take away from Annafalks statistic is that is has nothing to do with the thread or the discussion in here. It is completely moot and pointless. But she still felt the need to post it.
Here is another diagram as valid, that we can discuss:
No, I disagree. The table posted is valid published data. Exactly what it means is definitely up for debate, though. Whether Swedish Jews are really more in danger from Muslims than from the right, the left, or other groups is also up for debate. Read the paper and see what you think.
I can't comment on whether it is relevant to the election results, though.
Exactly.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Malmo's Jews, however, do not just point the finger at bigoted Muslims and their fellow racists in the country's Neo-Nazi fringe. They also accuse Ilmar Reepalu, the Left-wing mayor who has been in power for 15 years, of failing to protect them.
Mr Reepalu, who is blamed for lax policing, is at the centre of a growing controversy for saying that what the Jews perceive as naked anti-Semitism is in fact just a sad, but understandable consequence of Israeli policy in the Middle East.
While his views are far from unusual on the European liberal-left, which is often accused of a pro-Palestinian bias, his Jewish critics say they encourage young Muslim hotheads to abuse and harass them.
The future looks so bleak that by one estimate, around 30 Jewish families have already left for Stockholm, England or Israel, and more are preparing to go.
With its young people planning new lives elsewhere, the remaining Jewish households, many of whom are made up of Holocaust survivors and their descendants, fear they will soon be gone altogether. Mrs Popinski, an 86-year-old widow, said she has even encountered hostility when invited to talk about the Holocaust in schools.
"Muslim schoolchildren often ignore me now when I talk about my experiences in the camps," she said. "It is because of what their parents tell them about Jews. The hatreds of the Middle East have come to Malmo. Schools in Muslim areas of the city simply won't invite Holocaust survivors to speak any more."
Hate crimes, mainly directed against Jews, doubled last year with Malmo's police recording 79 incidents and admitting that far more probably went unreported. As of yet, no direct attacks on people have been recorded but many Jews believe it is only a matter of time in the current climate.
The city's synagogue has guards and rocket-proof glass in the windows, while the Jewish kindergarten can only be reached through thick steel security doors.
It is a far cry from the city Mrs Popinski arrived in 65 years ago, half-dead from starvation and typhus.
At Auschwitz she had been separated from her Polish family, all of whom were murdered. She escaped the gas chambers after being sent as a slave labourer. Then she was moved to a womens' concentration camp, Ravensbrück, from where she was then evacuated in a release deal negotiated between the Swedish Red Cross and senior Nazis, who were by then trying to save their own lives.
After the war, just as liberal Sweden took in Jews who survived the Holocaust as a humanitarian act, it also took in new waves of refugees from tyranny and conflicts in the Middle East. Muslims are now estimated to make up about a fifth of Malmo's population of nearly 300,000.
"This new hatred from a group 40,000-strong is focused on a small group of Jews," Mrs Popinski said, speaking in a sitting room filled with paintings and Persian carpets.
"Some Swedish politicians are letting them do it, including the mayor. Of course the Muslims have more votes than the Jews."
The worst incident was last year during Israel's brief war in Gaza, when a small demonstration in favour of Israel was attacked by a screaming mob of Arabs and Swedish leftists, who threw bottles and firecrackers as the police looked on.
"I haven't seen hatred like that for decades," Mrs Popinski said. "It reminded me of what I saw in my youth. Jews feel vulnerable here now."
The problem is becoming an embarrassment for the Social Democrats, the mayor's party.
His city was - until recently at least - a shining multicultural success story, and has taken in proportionally more refugees than anywhere else in Sweden, a record of which it is proud.
Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.
Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.
“Jews came to Sweden to get away from persecution, and now they find it is no longer a safe haven,” said Rabbi Shneur Kesselman, 31. “That is a horrible feeling.”
One who has had enough is Marcus Eilenberg, a 32-year-old Malmo-born lawyer, who is moving to Israel in April with his young family.
"Malmo has really changed in the past year," he said. "I am optimistic by nature, but I have no faith in a future here for my children. There is definitely a threat.
"This is happening all over Europe. I have cousins who are leaving their homes in Amsterdam and France for the same reason as me.
He said that the harassment of Jews by some young Muslims was "embarrassing" to his community.
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Voter mentality.
What?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Voter mentality.
What?
Re-read what she has already contributed. I'm not presenting her point in a different way.
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Voter mentality.
What?
Re-read what she has already contributed. I'm not presenting her point in a different way.
I don't know what "voter mentality" has to do with if there are a source for "many" people moving from Sweden because of political reasons (or being harassed for being Jewish) and this "many" being numbers great enough to affect the election by mail votes.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Voter mentality.
What?
Re-read what she has already contributed. I'm not presenting her point in a different way.
I don't know what "voter mentality" has to do with if there are a source for "many" people moving from Sweden because of political reasons (or being harassed for being Jewish) and this "many" being numbers great enough to affect the election by mail votes.
The growth of conservative values is what I got from her submissions.
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Voter mentality.
What?
Re-read what she has already contributed. I'm not presenting her point in a different way.
I don't know what "voter mentality" has to do with if there are a source for "many" people moving from Sweden because of political reasons (or being harassed for being Jewish) and this "many" being numbers great enough to affect the election by mail votes.
The growth of conservative values is what I got from her submissions.
But I'm asking about - where the sources are that state that people have moved from Sweden because of the politics (or being harassed which was stated later). And that this would be numbers big enough to sway the election by their mail votes.
A general growth of conservative values (in or outside Sweden) has nothing to do with that.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The data in this table surprised me enough to look up the source material. I read the Dencik & Marosi paper link http://archive.jpr.org.uk/download?id=2821 if anyone is interested) and skimmed the FRA paper. Interesting stuff and far more than I could include in a post. Overall takeaways seem to be that Sweden has a very low percentage of people with what they call "classic anti-semitism", which would generally be associated with right wing/Nazi ideals. However, there is a perception that what they call Israel-derived anti-semitism (i.e. anti-Israel sentiments) is higher, and concentrated in the Muslim population. Lots of discussion about how much of the fear is based on a realistic appraisal vs. otherwise. There is also an interesting bit about whether people who are anti-circumcision and/or against the principles of kosher slaughter practices should be considered anti-semitic, even if their concerns do not relate to religion but rather human or animal rights.
But I think, what we all can take away from Annafalks statistic is that is has nothing to do with the thread or the discussion in here. It is completely moot and pointless. But she still felt the need to post it.
Here is another diagram as valid, that we can discuss:
No, I disagree. The table posted is valid published data. Exactly what it means is definitely up for debate, though. Whether Swedish Jews are really more in danger from Muslims than from the right, the left, or other groups is also up for debate. Read the paper and see what you think.
I can't comment on whether it is relevant to the election results, though.
Exactly.
"... can't comment" because I don't have any more time right now to parse through the data, not because I think it's irrelevant to a discussion on Swedish voting choice.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
So, whats interesting here is that The Allience ( the four "rightwinged" parties) are talking about trying to form a government, while The Social Democrats (biggest party and right now the Government party together with The Green Party) are also talking about forming a government. In parallel:
Center leader Annie Lööf has also commented on contacts from government. She says to Aftonbladet:
"I have not had any conversations with the Social Democrats. Their trick now is to invite different parties to show a picture of splitting the Alliance. It's an ugly trick.
On the question of whether she could imagine sitting in a Löfven (the prime minster)-led government, she answers:
"I promise my constituents to replace Stefan Löfven.
To SVT, Lööf has said that S has contacted her party by sms from Anders Ygeman to Anders W Jonsson, Center Party's group leader. But S got got stood up, C does not want any meeting in this time.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
And, what should be said is that they get three (or maybe four...) chances to form a government that will pass through the parliament - or there will be a re-election.
The latest re-election in Sweden was in 1958.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
Wait, how? In that case I am sorry, ofcourse.
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Will re-read. Thank you.
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Voter mentality.
What?
Re-read what she has already contributed. I'm not presenting her point in a different way.
I don't know what "voter mentality" has to do with if there are a source for "many" people moving from Sweden because of political reasons (or being harassed for being Jewish) and this "many" being numbers great enough to affect the election by mail votes.
The growth of conservative values is what I got from her submissions.
But I'm asking about - where the sources are that state that people have moved from Sweden because of the politics (or being harassed which was stated later). And that this would be numbers big enough to sway the election by their mail votes.
A general growth of conservative values (in or outside Sweden) has nothing to do with that.
I hadn't realized the discussion had boiled down to such a finite level. I thought that in a thread such as this... the development of voters' mentalities would be completely relevant (and what implications this growth might have for this election and even more importantly... future elections). Anna's contribution was helpful to me trying to understand Sweden and its current social landscape.
Let's come back to my original post though: I'm not professing to be an expert on Sweden. I'm professing to have come across bad manners. I appreciate your willingness and eagerness to share what's going on in your country right now, but I can't say I appreciated your lack of respect for Anna in the last exchanges.
Comments
Trump’s catchphrase for any circumstance: We’ll see
https://www.apnews.com/7eba1de9d6ca4ad4ad7f6372108eec3eWhy state stuff as facts, when you have to resort to "I dont know what Im saying, but who knows maybe in some way I could be right and that makes itvalid"?
The thing I'm commenting on, is you Annafalk and your careless and biased actions, Not what the results will be.
As seen here
The data in this table surprised me enough to look up the source material. I read the Dencik & Marosi paper link http://archive.jpr.org.uk/download?id=2821 if anyone is interested) and skimmed the FRA paper. Interesting stuff and far more than I could include in a post. Overall takeaways seem to be that Sweden has a very low percentage of people with what they call "classic anti-semitism", which would generally be associated with right wing/Nazi ideals. However, there is a perception that what they call Israel-derived anti-semitism (i.e. anti-Israel sentiments) is higher, and concentrated in the Muslim population. Lots of discussion about how much of the fear is based on a realistic appraisal vs. otherwise. There is also an interesting bit about whether people who are anti-circumcision and/or against the principles of kosher slaughter practices should be considered anti-semitic, even if their concerns do not relate to religion but rather human or animal rights.
Here is another diagram, that we can discuss:
Tuesday 11 September 2018
Jews leave Swedish city after sharp rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes
Sweden's reputation as a tolerant, liberal nation is being threatened by a steep rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes in the city of Malmo.
By Nick Meo in Malmo, Sweden
7:30AM GMT 21 Feb 2010
When she first arrived in Sweden after her rescue from a Nazi concentration camp, Judith Popinski was treated with great kindness.
She raised a family in the city of Malmo, and for the next six decades lived happily in her adopted homeland - until last year.
"I never thought I would see this hatred again in my lifetime, not in Sweden anyway," Mrs Popinski told The Sunday Telegraph.
"This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now."
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25 May 2013Malmo's Jews, however, do not just point the finger at bigoted Muslims and their fellow racists in the country's Neo-Nazi fringe. They also accuse Ilmar Reepalu, the Left-wing mayor who has been in power for 15 years, of failing to protect them.
Mr Reepalu, who is blamed for lax policing, is at the centre of a growing controversy for saying that what the Jews perceive as naked anti-Semitism is in fact just a sad, but understandable consequence of Israeli policy in the Middle East.
While his views are far from unusual on the European liberal-left, which is often accused of a pro-Palestinian bias, his Jewish critics say they encourage young Muslim hotheads to abuse and harass them.
The future looks so bleak that by one estimate, around 30 Jewish families have already left for Stockholm, England or Israel, and more are preparing to go.
With its young people planning new lives elsewhere, the remaining Jewish households, many of whom are made up of Holocaust survivors and their descendants, fear they will soon be gone altogether. Mrs Popinski, an 86-year-old widow, said she has even encountered hostility when invited to talk about the Holocaust in schools.
"Muslim schoolchildren often ignore me now when I talk about my experiences in the camps," she said. "It is because of what their parents tell them about Jews. The hatreds of the Middle East have come to Malmo. Schools in Muslim areas of the city simply won't invite Holocaust survivors to speak any more."
Hate crimes, mainly directed against Jews, doubled last year with Malmo's police recording 79 incidents and admitting that far more probably went unreported. As of yet, no direct attacks on people have been recorded but many Jews believe it is only a matter of time in the current climate.
The city's synagogue has guards and rocket-proof glass in the windows, while the Jewish kindergarten can only be reached through thick steel security doors.
It is a far cry from the city Mrs Popinski arrived in 65 years ago, half-dead from starvation and typhus.
At Auschwitz she had been separated from her Polish family, all of whom were murdered. She escaped the gas chambers after being sent as a slave labourer. Then she was moved to a womens' concentration camp, Ravensbrück, from where she was then evacuated in a release deal negotiated between the Swedish Red Cross and senior Nazis, who were by then trying to save their own lives.
After the war, just as liberal Sweden took in Jews who survived the Holocaust as a humanitarian act, it also took in new waves of refugees from tyranny and conflicts in the Middle East. Muslims are now estimated to make up about a fifth of Malmo's population of nearly 300,000.
"This new hatred from a group 40,000-strong is focused on a small group of Jews," Mrs Popinski said, speaking in a sitting room filled with paintings and Persian carpets.
"Some Swedish politicians are letting them do it, including the mayor. Of course the Muslims have more votes than the Jews."
The worst incident was last year during Israel's brief war in Gaza, when a small demonstration in favour of Israel was attacked by a screaming mob of Arabs and Swedish leftists, who threw bottles and firecrackers as the police looked on.
"I haven't seen hatred like that for decades," Mrs Popinski said. "It reminded me of what I saw in my youth. Jews feel vulnerable here now."
The problem is becoming an embarrassment for the Social Democrats, the mayor's party.
His city was - until recently at least - a shining multicultural success story, and has taken in proportionally more refugees than anywhere else in Sweden, a record of which it is proud.
Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.
Sweden has had a long record of offering a safe haven to Jews, the first of whom arrived from the east in the mid-nineteenth century. Today the Jewish population is about 18,000 nationally, with around 3000 in southern Sweden.
“Jews came to Sweden to get away from persecution, and now they find it is no longer a safe haven,” said Rabbi Shneur Kesselman, 31. “That is a horrible feeling.”
One who has had enough is Marcus Eilenberg, a 32-year-old Malmo-born lawyer, who is moving to Israel in April with his young family.
"Malmo has really changed in the past year," he said. "I am optimistic by nature, but I have no faith in a future here for my children. There is definitely a threat.
"This is happening all over Europe. I have cousins who are leaving their homes in Amsterdam and France for the same reason as me.
He said that the harassment of Jews by some young Muslims was "embarrassing" to his community.
It's not just about the government issue, there are also a number of things in the parliament that need to be resolved. This is for example about committee seats in the parliament.
Ygeman does not want to say plainly if it is himself who contacted other parties on behalf of the party leadership. He says, however, that he "as a group leader" is responsible for many contacts with other parties.
No, I disagree. The table posted is valid published data. Exactly what it means is definitely up for debate, though. Whether Swedish Jews are really more in danger from Muslims than from the right, the left, or other groups is also up for debate. Read the paper and see what you think.
I can't comment on whether it is relevant to the election results, though.
You are way out of line... aaaahgain.
Refute Anna's post all you want, but how about refraining from attacking her on such personal levels?
But where does it say that many are leaving Sweden`? And therefore would be able to change the voting results by voting blue by mail?
Come on, man.
Go back and read your discourse with her. It's fine to be passionate, but I just wish you would recognize when you become too aggressive. What she presented was legitimate in this context and you brushed it aside without considering its relevancy... and then proceeded to belittle her in a number of ways to the point she chose to exit the discussion (and you still chased her tossing insults).
Remind me, what was legitimate in this context though? if you have it fresh in memory.
Voter mentality.
Re-read what she has already contributed. I'm not presenting her point in a different way.
The growth of conservative values is what I got from her submissions.
A general growth of conservative values (in or outside Sweden) has nothing to do with that.
The latest re-election in Sweden was in 1958.
Let's come back to my original post though: I'm not professing to be an expert on Sweden. I'm professing to have come across bad manners. I appreciate your willingness and eagerness to share what's going on in your country right now, but I can't say I appreciated your lack of respect for Anna in the last exchanges.