My story dealing with several horrible entitled “railbirds” in GA at Wrigley 2

2-feign-reluctance

Even some of our most respected, tenured faculty on campus don't dissect and discuss their areas of expertise like Pearl Jam fans do the music and the experiences. It boggles my mind.

dimitrispearljam

mcgruff10 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened. 

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time 
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great  again

I feel like the Aussies lost all their credibility on this.  

    i reply already americans-canadians told me

PJ_Soul

dimitrispearljam said:

mcgruff10 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened. 

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time 
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great  again

I feel like the Aussies lost all their credibility on this.  

    i reply already americans-canadians told me

I feel like the Aussies lost all sympathy then.

pjl44

dimitrispearljam said:

mcgruff10 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened. 

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time 
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great  again

I feel like the Aussies lost all their credibility on this.  

    i reply already americans-canadians told me

Do you think the other group is being dishonest about how they were treated?

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

Big Bank Hank said:

I know that Ed reads the boards (he has played 3 of my requests in the last 5 years & referred to specifics that were made during those requests), I wonder what he is thinking reading all these horror stories? When you are up on stage kicking ass & taking names & are fully committed to giving the best performance you can, you are going to miss 99% of what goes on, so I am sure to a certain extent the band has been insulated from a lot of the ugliness.

I’m going to say with 99.9% certainty that Ed doesn’t read the boards. Someone else has pulled requests from here and forwarded them to Ed. 

Yup. There is no way in hell Eddie actually reads the forum, lol. The 10C staff passes along requests.

Do they even do that?
I mean I see 10 requests for big shows, and when half of them get played they assume Eddie read it. Isn't that really just statistics though?

MayDay10

PJ_Soul said:

Vedd Hedd said:

So, in order to get the rail...you not only need to be in line anywhere from 10-48 hours in advance, but also need to immediately run to the rail, and then spend the next 5-6 hours there without eating or going to the bathroom, all while elbowing out people who are trying to push up?

And if you DO move, you lose your spot?

Yeah, bring back the seats please.

I just don't understand wanting to go back to seats just because of what maybe 100 people are doing out of thousands.

It is a matter of time before there is a really bad incident.  Because of the layout and general rules behind the GA tickets and lines, and other things like merch/posters.  Fans are constantly pitted against other fans.  Most of us are cool and repeat the "dont be an asshole" mantra, but it only goes so far, and that mantra is abused by cliques and individuals who leverage the systems and general laid-backness of our group for profit and/or prime seating.

Not sure if they need straight-up seating per-se.  But at the very least, get control of this line arms-race and create a safe, equitable, and structures system like the Springsteen method.  Even in that case, I would expect some of these rail lifers to dedicate themselves to push to the front.

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

Big Bank Hank said:

I know that Ed reads the boards (he has played 3 of my requests in the last 5 years & referred to specifics that were made during those requests), I wonder what he is thinking reading all these horror stories? When you are up on stage kicking ass & taking names & are fully committed to giving the best performance you can, you are going to miss 99% of what goes on, so I am sure to a certain extent the band has been insulated from a lot of the ugliness.

I’m going to say with 99.9% certainty that Ed doesn’t read the boards. Someone else has pulled requests from here and forwarded them to Ed. 

Yup. There is no way in hell Eddie actually reads the forum, lol. The 10C staff passes along requests.

Do they even do that?
I mean I see 10 requests for big shows, and when half of them get played they assume Eddie read it. Isn't that really just statistics though?

Yeah, they do it - Sure, a lot of the time it's just a coincidence. I think it's probably almost always a coincidence if there is no direct comment made by Eddie about the specific request, but you never really know I guess; obviously it's just a coincidence most of the time in any case, just because of the laws of probability, as you say. But I have read things over time that make it pretty clear 10C staff passes on worthy requests as they see fit. I can't imagine they would be passing all of them along. Just the good ones.

dimitrispearljam

pjl44 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

mcgruff10 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened. 

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time 
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great  again

I feel like the Aussies lost all their credibility on this.  

    i reply already americans-canadians told me

Do you think the other group is being dishonest about how they were treated?

No,its how masses work. For sure called them names when went infront. What I'm I sure is if wasnt australians  the first in line and was 3-4  male americans will be a fight with punching and all. 

What is sure is that there  5,people they knew that that  group was there from night one finish  and cos couldnt go in the official GA line they camp close.. And they took advantage the fact that when official 8 am line will start cut those people was there a day before them and went upfront.. U can see at the video when they did it, they knew they was cutting the line and dont  give a shit those people was there. And of course the rest would be upset and angry 

As I said.. DRAMA

jdopj

PJNB said:

Still surprised that a handful of bad apples = take GA away completely. Besides the craziness with the camping and the elitism up at the front GA is a great opportunity for all fans to get a chance at being close to see their favourite band. The 1,2,9,10 lottery is great but not enough for most since the chance is very slim that they hit it. 

Saying that I would of liked to use Fenway 1 reserved seating as an argument against reserved since they were very tame and had very little energy when compared to past shows that I had seen up at the front. Then night 2 came and had one of the best crowd that I have been apart.

I have a high number so I am obviously bias against reserved up front but you can also say the same with all you old farts looking to get reserved back with your low numbers. I will be watching closely from the noisebleeds at both Fenway shows this year. You better bring it fuckers!

I go to absorb the music. I bang my head, air guitar, put my hands in the air, sing.
Or I will stand and listen and watch intently. My choice. Who are you to judge if I’m bringing it enough to deserve the seat I am in or the place I am standing.

Gern Blansten

MayDay10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Vedd Hedd said:

So, in order to get the rail...you not only need to be in line anywhere from 10-48 hours in advance, but also need to immediately run to the rail, and then spend the next 5-6 hours there without eating or going to the bathroom, all while elbowing out people who are trying to push up?

And if you DO move, you lose your spot?

Yeah, bring back the seats please.

I just don't understand wanting to go back to seats just because of what maybe 100 people are doing out of thousands.

It is a matter of time before there is a really bad incident.  Because of the layout and general rules behind the GA tickets and lines, and other things like merch/posters.  Fans are constantly pitted against other fans.  Most of us are cool and repeat the "dont be an asshole" mantra, but it only goes so far, and that mantra is abused by cliques and individuals who leverage the systems and general laid-backness of our group for profit and/or prime seating.

Not sure if they need straight-up seating per-se.  But at the very least, get control of this line arms-race and create a safe, equitable, and structures system like the Springsteen method.  Even in that case, I would expect some of these rail lifers to dedicate themselves to push to the front.

agreed....both groups think they are right.  When there are not clear rules and/or the venue isn't aware of any rules that can be enforced it will be a clusterfuck every time.

It seems like the 10c could do the random number method easily....if you have a GA ticket (even if mobile) you check in at the will call window and get your randomly assigned number.  At 5pm you line up by number, if you don't want a number you just line up behind those with numbers.

At Radiohead Chicago they issued the numbers from like 9a-3pm.  Then you line up at 5pm.  There were like 2 security people there handling it.  

PJ_Soul

MayDay10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Vedd Hedd said:

So, in order to get the rail...you not only need to be in line anywhere from 10-48 hours in advance, but also need to immediately run to the rail, and then spend the next 5-6 hours there without eating or going to the bathroom, all while elbowing out people who are trying to push up?

And if you DO move, you lose your spot?

Yeah, bring back the seats please.

I just don't understand wanting to go back to seats just because of what maybe 100 people are doing out of thousands.

It is a matter of time before there is a really bad incident.  Because of the layout and general rules behind the GA tickets and lines, and other things like merch/posters.  Fans are constantly pitted against other fans.  Most of us are cool and repeat the "dont be an asshole" mantra, but it only goes so far, and that mantra is abused by cliques and individuals who leverage the systems and general laid-backness of our group for profit and/or prime seating.

Not sure if they need straight-up seating per-se.  But at the very least, get control of this line arms-race and create a safe, equitable, and structures system like the Springsteen method.  Even in that case, I would expect some of these rail lifers to dedicate themselves to push to the front.

For sure, I agree 10C should do something here - it seems that anyone who hears about the Springsteen method thinks it's a good idea... besides the rail rats, obviously, lol. I don't know, but I get the impression that 10C's general attitude about this is, embarrassingly, that we're adults and should be able to deal with it all without devolving into the crap that it devolves into. Well, unfortunately 10C is overestimating some fans if this is true. I kind of get why they wouldn't want to set up yet another system or whatever, but all things considered, it really would seem like the responsible, safest thing to do. The aggression and weirdo obsessive insanity of some folks in some GA lines is out of control, and yeah, all it takes is one really furious mofo to throw a hard punch, or for some angry person to throw hot coffee in someone's face (as threatened in the incident being discussed!) for things to really cross a line in a bad way. It would be nice for everyone if 10C could make a decision to end it all with a nice GA entry order lottery held a couple hours before doors open.

PJNB

jdopj said:

PJNB said:

Still surprised that a handful of bad apples = take GA away completely. Besides the craziness with the camping and the elitism up at the front GA is a great opportunity for all fans to get a chance at being close to see their favourite band. The 1,2,9,10 lottery is great but not enough for most since the chance is very slim that they hit it. 

Saying that I would of liked to use Fenway 1 reserved seating as an argument against reserved since they were very tame and had very little energy when compared to past shows that I had seen up at the front. Then night 2 came and had one of the best crowd that I have been apart.

I have a high number so I am obviously bias against reserved up front but you can also say the same with all you old farts looking to get reserved back with your low numbers. I will be watching closely from the noisebleeds at both Fenway shows this year. You better bring it fuckers!

I go to absorb the music. I bang my head, air guitar, put my hands in the air, sing.
Or I will stand and listen and watch intently. My choice. Who are you to judge if I’m bringing it enough to deserve the seat I am in or the place I am standing.

We were comparing GA vs Reserved and if it impacted how much energy was up front at a show. Not sure why you took it so personal. Also that last comment was a joke. There is no way I can even see the front from my seats...

Suziemay

Gern Blansten said:

agreed....both groups think they are right.  When there are not clear rules and/or the venue isn't aware of any rules that can be enforced it will be a clusterfuck every time.

We are all there for the same thing, it's a shame that we can't all be nice to each other and peacefully resolve. In the past, I've been in situations were multiple lines formed, and we resolved peacefully.

1) Wrigley 2013: Security gave different instructions to different people when we showed up, so there were at least two GA lines that formed. We realized this quickly, and were able to merge peacefully. I can't remember what we did, I just remember being in one line, realizing that, oh crap, there's another line around the corner, running there, chatting with some folks and then we were all happy again. I mean, until the rain delay

2) Oakland 2013: People who arrived by car formed a line outside the gate. People who arrived on foot formed a line inside the arena. I think we did something like alternating people in each line, and merged both lines. I think there was a small handful of grumbly people, but the majority of us just wanted to resolve peacefully and we did. This ended up being one of the best shows ever for me.

ascahn

Go Beavers said:

PJNB said:

ForceofNature101 said:

Go Beavers said:

Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line? 

I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak.  And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else

I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come. 

Easy answer. They’re dicks for knowing that others were there before they were and then didn’t move in behind the first group. Sounds like the first group didn’t respond well though. 

mcgruff10 said:

as cahn said:

iwasthere said:

ascahn,
I was 6th in line.

I saw what happened. I see your side for sure. Not exactly full story in my view. I never spoke to you, and that BS was over the top, you are right about that. Still, I did leave in the middle of Yellow Ledbetter on Saturday to get in line for Monday. Was allowed to be there til daybreak and told to move. Was in the exact spot you were and again told to move as the rule was 8am the next day. But still went across street to keep kicking can down road and linger. I didnt leave, I didnt sleep. I would have been where you were entire time but was told to leave tiI 8am. Well, you were still 9 hours early too and came at 11pm and go where I and others were told not to be. You just didnt encounter anyone telling you to leave again. I know the guy who was first came over and told you we had been there since the show ended the night before and was just waiting across street because we couldn't loiter there. You told him it didn't matter. It's fine I guess, you didn't break any laws or anything. I knew entire time you didn't operate outside of any 10c rules. You just knew there were several of us waiting directly across street and wanted to get around them. Now the large amount that showed up at 4, they aren't who I'm talking about and were not who we were asking you to get behind. At 4am I know the mob came across the street to line up, but not at 11pm when you arrived. I am talking to you about the people waiting in the unofficial line directly across the street that was looking back and forth with your crew all night, lol. That was less than 20 people that had been there. This is all unofficial of course as neither you nor us were supposed to be there yet. But you were 100% aware we were across street waiting for 24 hours longer than you and you thought if you stayed there you could get around them. Again, that's how you wanted to handle it, fine. I was sixth in line. Think we would agree the noise was coming from further back than me. With you in front, I was 10th, wasn't that big of deal. I was one of two people actually saying fuck it and to just get behind you at midnight even though I didn't like it. 

Beside all that, I get the railbird stuff! Was only my 2nd PJ show in past 5 years and first time up front in a decade. Was front and center before the rain and with much skill, lol, was front and center after rain. I had a great time but here is my vote to go back to reserved seating!!! Damn! The competitive nature is just to natural of a reaction. Everyone wants a good spot! 

Of course, I knew there was people at Murphy’s as well as other locations waiting to in. My issue was with the list and their feeling of supremacy regarding who would or could be on that list. We refused to succumb to the pressure that was placed on us which was basically either we would get on their list or we would be forced to deal with their consequences. They had zero right to use any list or numbering system. We were also aware that there was a real possibility that we would be told to leave by police or security and we would have left as you did. We lined up in the exact spot where the line begun for Saturday’s show. Did we disobey the 8:00 am rule?  Yes we did. We also knew that many others would disobey the rule so we took a “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander” approach. 

Also so I will say that yes, not every person in your group participated in the verbal abuse directed at us. There were even a couple of people that approached us to say that they didn’t approve of the way we were being treated and that they would be happy to stand with us. One of the more hilarious things that took place was at one point I had a face to face confrontation with the supreme Aussie leader after I had taken his picture for my own personal use in case the situation escalated to our of control. As he walked up to me and was literally standing within inches of my face, a group of about 8 others ran up from where they were standing in, to apparently show a sign a strength if I was to get out of control. Nothing more than another attempt at intimidation to me. 

Here is the link to the Ten Club rule that I was citing. That was my foundation and we were dead set against being bullied into their list. https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/271970/there-is-no-list-number-system-for-10c-ga-lines  

I want to know what the supreme leader looks like. 

ascahn

Go Beavers said:

PJNB said:

ForceofNature101 said:

Go Beavers said:

Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line? 

I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak.  And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else

I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come. 

Easy answer. They’re dicks for knowing that others were there before they were and then didn’t move in behind the first group. Sounds like the first group didn’t respond well though.    

dimitrispearljam

ascahn said:

Go Beavers said:

PJNB said:

ForceofNature101 said:

Go Beavers said:

Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line? 

I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak.  And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else

I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come. 

Easy answer. They’re dicks for knowing that others were there before they were and then didn’t move in behind the first group. Sounds like the first group didn’t respond well though.    

That  exactly what happen

ascahn

ascahn said:

Go Beavers said:

PJNB said:

ForceofNature101 said:

Go Beavers said:

Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line? 

I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak.  And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else

I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come. 

Easy answer. They’re dicks for knowing that others were there before they were and then didn’t move in behind the first group. Sounds like the first group didn’t respond well though.    

Not sure why we are dicks. Nobody said security moved them anywhere.  They were in Murphy’s. We spent time in Murphy’s also so does that make us all equal?  I arrived into town on Friday so is that when I lined up?  Bottom line for me is no lists or unauthorized lines per 10 Club. We went to the spot that we were told by security that we could stand. Off of Cubs controlled property and exactly where the pre 8:00 am line was started on Saturday with the other group in that line. 

Nymets30

PJ-Cubs said:

I really wish they would move to the random drawing system that Bruce uses.

Amen! Except in Europe it’s run by fans. 

pjl44

ascahn said:

ascahn said:

Go Beavers said:

PJNB said:

ForceofNature101 said:

Go Beavers said:

Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line? 

I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak.  And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else

I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come. 

Easy answer. They’re dicks for knowing that others were there before they were and then didn’t move in behind the first group. Sounds like the first group didn’t respond well though.    

Not sure why we are dicks. Nobody said security moved them anywhere.  They were in Murphy’s. We spent time in Murphy’s also so does that make us all equal?  I arrived into town on Friday so is that when I lined up?  Bottom line for me is no lists or unauthorized lines per 10 Club. We went to the spot that we were told by security that we could stand. Off of Cubs controlled property and exactly where the pre 8:00 am line was started on Saturday with the other group in that line. 

Dimi's friends are claiming your crew was telling the Australians they weren't welcome in the US and some Trumpy MAGA stuff. That true?

moemoe6434

If knew others were waiting longer, no way I could try to morally defend my spot.  Semantics doesn’t overrule common sense and courtesy.  Just my take.