What is the 2nd Amendment?

mcgruff10

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

its extremely important to understand the language and usage of the day.

regulated meant to make regular, as in well trained. State could mean country or individual State. regardless we shouldn't part out this amendment. Focusing solely on the shall not infringe part while ignoring the regulated part.

there can and should be uniform standards of training across the board, continuing training and education. rules and regulations even laws regarding lax behavior surrounding ppossession.Weapons are far too serious to fuck around.

You leave a weapon out for a child to get hold of, grieve in prison. none of that shit is accidental. its readily foreseen.

all weapons begin as legal from the manufacturers. are the street guns stolen from them? the gun stores? private hands? trace serial numbers and hold the negilgent parties accountable.

stop all person to person private sales. this area I believe is where most of the generic crime guns come from. same with the gang weapons.

I really like what Mcgruff has shared about Jerseys laws. would love to see that model adopted in whole or in part nationwide.

I like person to person sales.  I like the govt not knowing everything I do.  What I will give you is if that firearm sales, if not legally done within a person to person should be a punishable offense.

I'd like to own whatever I want in any state.  If you want me to train for that and re-certify every couple of years then fine but I'd like to be able to still own the cool stuff.  After so many years one should be grandfathered in.  If a cop gets to conceal for the rest of his life after 20 years of service and pretty much own what he wants then I should get the same treatment after so many years.

That's my offer.ok

so how is the State to know? thats what is in play in a lot of places right now. hows that working out?

bte, the government of the day granted this right..... it isnt inviolate.

State laws vary on firearms.  I could technically go and buy an AR in Pennsylvania but can not legally own it in New York.  It's a huge disconnect between states.

A law I was a big fan of was letting police officers carry across state lines.  For years they never could which I thought was dumb.

The Federal government gives the states power to certain things hence why NY passed that abortion law but passed a law for LE to carry in all 50 states.

exactly. Ohio does not require anything of a private sale. no questions need asked, like are you a felon. no check needs done. no reporting of the transfer is required.

so given that standard, is it any wonder weapins end up in the hands of those it shouldnt?

just curious , where you stand on patriot act provisions, nsa metadata collection etc....

I do not like the gathering of information in Patriot act, I do not like facial recognition and would like to all out ban it.

When I have sold a firearm in the past it is illegal to sell to a known felon and illegal for a felon to pretend that he is allowed to own a gun.  For that reason I actually did my own paperwork to make sure that if something happened that I was in the clear.  I'm sure not everyone does this?

I don't want to offer my information of what sold and what I might have though.

Give a class across the boards for the firearms.  Keep the class 3 laws the same though as it is already difficult enough to obtain one.

ok. where do you see the breakdown then?  What in place now, isnt working? NY guns are coming up from the Carolinas arent they? Chicagos are coming from Gary or surrounding areas in Indiana. Ohios guns are dispersed over a large swath of thed U.S.

The steps you and Mcgruff need to take arent steps most of the rest of the country need to take. I propose the rest of the country falls in behind your respective states. Not making it harder on you necessarily, but bringing everyone else up to your standards in NY and NJ.

NY and NJ doesn't want you to own anything.

The laws are in place but it is still easy to get a gun illegally if you want it.  Laws are strict but it doesn't matter.  So what are NY and NJ doing right exactly?

Lots of rumors circulating about some crazy gun legislation coming through nj in november.  It is going to get really interesting.

CM189191

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

F Me In The Brain

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Appreciate your well thought out response to my flippant comment.  (I don't buy the parallel but I understand now what you were saying.)

CM189191

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Appreciate your well thought out response to my flippant comment.  (I don't buy the parallel but I understand now what you were saying.)

It's not so much a parallel as a direct line from point A to point B.

Who wanted the 2nd Amendment?  Southern States

Why?  to the security of a 'free state'

Who was the 'free state'?  Weathly, white landowners who needed to keep their property from rebelling.

The argument literally was : If Congress controls the Federal Army, which would be used exclusively to protect ourselves against invasions from foreign countries, we won't be able to keep our slaves in line.  

The 2nd Amendment is as antiquated and obsolete as the 3/5ths compromise.  

rgambs

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Appreciate your well thought out response to my flippant comment.  (I don't buy the parallel but I understand now what you were saying.)

It's not so much a parallel as a direct line from point A to point B.

Who wanted the 2nd Amendment?  Southern States

Why?  to the security of a 'free state'

Who was the 'free state'?  Weathly, white landowners who needed to keep their property from rebelling.

The argument literally was : If Congress controls the Federal Army, which would be used exclusively to protect ourselves against invasions from foreign countries, we won't be able to keep our slaves in line.  

The 2nd Amendment is as antiquated and obsolete as the 3/5ths compromise.  

There is plenty of evidence to support this, it's pretty well-documented.

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Appreciate your well thought out response to my flippant comment.  (I don't buy the parallel but I understand now what you were saying.)

It's not so much a parallel as a direct line from point A to point B.

Who wanted the 2nd Amendment?  Southern States

Why?  to the security of a 'free state'

Who was the 'free state'?  Weathly, white landowners who needed to keep their property from rebelling.

The argument literally was : If Congress controls the Federal Army, which would be used exclusively to protect ourselves against invasions from foreign countries, we won't be able to keep our slaves in line.  

The 2nd Amendment is as antiquated and obsolete as the 3/5ths compromise.  

There is plenty of evidence to support this, it's pretty well-documented.

wow, that never crossed my mind before. crazy. 

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Appreciate your well thought out response to my flippant comment.  (I don't buy the parallel but I understand now what you were saying.)

It's not so much a parallel as a direct line from point A to point B.

Who wanted the 2nd Amendment?  Southern States

Why?  to the security of a 'free state'

Who was the 'free state'?  Weathly, white landowners who needed to keep their property from rebelling.

The argument literally was : If Congress controls the Federal Army, which would be used exclusively to protect ourselves against invasions from foreign countries, we won't be able to keep our slaves in line.  

The 2nd Amendment is as antiquated and obsolete as the 3/5ths compromise.  

There is plenty of evidence to support this, it's pretty well-documented.

wow, that never crossed my mind before. crazy. 

Zinn wrote about it in A People's History, the slave states were terrified of slave revolts and relied on armed militia to dissuade and suppress.

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Appreciate your well thought out response to my flippant comment.  (I don't buy the parallel but I understand now what you were saying.)

It's not so much a parallel as a direct line from point A to point B.

Who wanted the 2nd Amendment?  Southern States

Why?  to the security of a 'free state'

Who was the 'free state'?  Weathly, white landowners who needed to keep their property from rebelling.

The argument literally was : If Congress controls the Federal Army, which would be used exclusively to protect ourselves against invasions from foreign countries, we won't be able to keep our slaves in line.  

The 2nd Amendment is as antiquated and obsolete as the 3/5ths compromise.  

There is plenty of evidence to support this, it's pretty well-documented.

wow, that never crossed my mind before. crazy. 

Zinn wrote about it in A People's History, the slave states were terrified of slave revolts and relied on armed militia to dissuade and suppress.

I really should read more than musical biographies. 

pearljammr78

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Damn. That is well written, well thought out and not surprising at all. These are the same states that incarcerated a man for how many years for stealing 50 dollars or has different drug sentences depending on color. The whole human race is drenched in corruption and it’s disgusting. 

The second amendment needs to be re written to fit the reality of today and the future. No body outside of the military and police need assault weapons. The fear based media wants you to believe you are not safe and guns are needed but how much of that is based on dollars from the NRA that feeds the networks and political puppets.

Should nobody have guns? No. That line of thinking is irrational. Hunters (not sport hunting, but that’s a different topic) and a gun for home protection is fine but there needs to be a lot more training classes, background checks, and harsher punishments for irresponsible gun owners and gun crimes. Does a person need an arsenal? Fuck no. Should they have the right to have an arsenal? Fuck no again. There should be a limit to how many guns you can own. 

Gun “enthusiasts” will claim that’s my right. You do not have the right to kill. You have the right to protect yourself and those you love with reasonable force. 

And to all of those that claim it’s to keep the government from becoming too big and so on. Bad news for you champ. No matter how many guns and ammo you own, the government has more and will win. 

On a good side note. San Francisco passed a resolution I believe calling the NRA a domestic terrorist organization. Finally. A terrorist organization financing the very elected officials that are supposed to make laws to protect the American public being called out for what they are. Terrorists. Ban the NRA and pass responsible gun legislation please. 

tempo_n_groove

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

CM189191 said:

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We get dumber by the minute.

Slavery can exist only in the context of a police state, and the enforcement of that police state was the explicit job of the militias.  Patrick Henry, George Mason, and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

During the period between the War of 1812 and the Civil War, the state militias of the Southern states took on a new function: slave patrols. When slaves would run away, militias were raised out of the general population to look for them. 

With the Civil War's outbreak in 1861, white Georgians feared the possibility that slaves would rebel or that enforcing discipline among slave communities would become more difficult. As a result, patrols, often in conjunction with home militia units, intensified their vigilance.

Apprehension increased after U.S. president Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect in 1863, and the movement and behavior of slaves were more strictly regulated. In Atlanta, for example, patrols began arresting any blacks found on the streets after nine o'clock at night, whether or not they had passes. City authorities also prevented social gatherings of African Americans unless patrollers or policemen were present.

Although slave patrols ceased to function after the Civil War, they provided the blueprint for later activities of the Ku Klux Klan —a new means by which the white community sought to control the activities of freedmen and freedwomen during Reconstruction.

After the Civil War, slavery persisted in the form of convict leasing, a system in which Southern states leased prisoners to private railways, mines, and large plantations. While states profited, prisoners earned no pay and faced inhumane, dangerous, and often deadly work conditions. Thousands of black people were forced into what authors have termed “slavery by another name”.

Southern state legislatures passed “Black Codes” – new laws that explicitly applied only to black people and subjected them to criminal prosecution for “offenses” such as loitering, breaking curfew, vagrancy, having weapons, and not carrying proof of employment. Crafted to ensnare black people and return them to chains, these laws were effective; for the first time in U.S. history, many state penal systems held more black prisoners than white – all of whom could be leased for profit.

The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism

Appreciate your well thought out response to my flippant comment.  (I don't buy the parallel but I understand now what you were saying.)

It's not so much a parallel as a direct line from point A to point B.

Who wanted the 2nd Amendment?  Southern States

Why?  to the security of a 'free state'

Who was the 'free state'?  Weathly, white landowners who needed to keep their property from rebelling.

The argument literally was : If Congress controls the Federal Army, which would be used exclusively to protect ourselves against invasions from foreign countries, we won't be able to keep our slaves in line.  

The 2nd Amendment is as antiquated and obsolete as the 3/5ths compromise.  

Read the 13th and it's mention of this :Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Isn't this more in line with what you were just saying?

If the 2nd was written for that which you sited is fine and dandy but the constitution was written to be under examination or open to interpretation and it has gone to the supreme court and upheld so I don't see how it is antiquated?

mace1229

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

its extremely important to understand the language and usage of the day.

regulated meant to make regular, as in well trained. State could mean country or individual State. regardless we shouldn't part out this amendment. Focusing solely on the shall not infringe part while ignoring the regulated part.

there can and should be uniform standards of training across the board, continuing training and education. rules and regulations even laws regarding lax behavior surrounding ppossession.Weapons are far too serious to fuck around.

You leave a weapon out for a child to get hold of, grieve in prison. none of that shit is accidental. its readily foreseen.

all weapons begin as legal from the manufacturers. are the street guns stolen from them? the gun stores? private hands? trace serial numbers and hold the negilgent parties accountable.

stop all person to person private sales. this area I believe is where most of the generic crime guns come from. same with the gang weapons.

I really like what Mcgruff has shared about Jerseys laws. would love to see that model adopted in whole or in part nationwide.

I like person to person sales.  I like the govt not knowing everything I do.  What I will give you is if that firearm sales, if not legally done within a person to person should be a punishable offense.

I'd like to own whatever I want in any state.  If you want me to train for that and re-certify every couple of years then fine but I'd like to be able to still own the cool stuff.  After so many years one should be grandfathered in.  If a cop gets to conceal for the rest of his life after 20 years of service and pretty much own what he wants then I should get the same treatment after so many years.

That's my offer.

My dad and brother are both cops in California (dad retired 15 years ago), and neither get to own whatever they want. Really the only difference is they can buy high capacity magazines, but any guns banned in CA for anyone else they can’t buy because they are a cop. They do get carry concealed  permits for life like you said though.

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

its extremely important to understand the language and usage of the day.

regulated meant to make regular, as in well trained. State could mean country or individual State. regardless we shouldn't part out this amendment. Focusing solely on the shall not infringe part while ignoring the regulated part.

there can and should be uniform standards of training across the board, continuing training and education. rules and regulations even laws regarding lax behavior surrounding ppossession.Weapons are far too serious to fuck around.

You leave a weapon out for a child to get hold of, grieve in prison. none of that shit is accidental. its readily foreseen.

all weapons begin as legal from the manufacturers. are the street guns stolen from them? the gun stores? private hands? trace serial numbers and hold the negilgent parties accountable.

stop all person to person private sales. this area I believe is where most of the generic crime guns come from. same with the gang weapons.

I really like what Mcgruff has shared about Jerseys laws. would love to see that model adopted in whole or in part nationwide.

I like person to person sales.  I like the govt not knowing everything I do.  What I will give you is if that firearm sales, if not legally done within a person to person should be a punishable offense.

I'd like to own whatever I want in any state.  If you want me to train for that and re-certify every couple of years then fine but I'd like to be able to still own the cool stuff.  After so many years one should be grandfathered in.  If a cop gets to conceal for the rest of his life after 20 years of service and pretty much own what he wants then I should get the same treatment after so many years.

That's my offer.

My dad and brother are both cops in California (dad retired 15 years ago), and neither get to own whatever they want. Really the only difference is they can buy high capacity magazines, but any guns banned in CA for anyone else they can’t buy because they are a cop. They do get carry concealed  permits for life like you said though.

In a gun shop there are firearms with a stamp that says "for law enforcement only" and they can indeed buy those guns.  Those High capacity magazines should be stamped with the same label on them.

EDIT:  I didn't mean they can buy a machine gun but they can buy banned guns offered for sale with that stamp on them.

CM189191

How about cops don't get guns, either?  Other countries seem to get by without.

Getting killed by police is a leading cause of death for young black men in America
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2019-08-15/police-shootings-are-a-leading-cause-of-death-for-black-men

This is what systematic institutional structural racism looks like

tempo_n_groove

CM189191 said:

How about cops don't get guns, either?  Other countries seem to get by without.

Getting killed by police is a leading cause of death for young black men in America
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2019-08-15/police-shootings-are-a-leading-cause-of-death-for-black-men

This is what systematic institutional structural racism looks like

I understand this and it is by far a completely different animal.

When you have gungho officer friendly whom can not and does not identify with the community for which he is serving it's a recipe for disaster.

mace1229

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

its extremely important to understand the language and usage of the day.

regulated meant to make regular, as in well trained. State could mean country or individual State. regardless we shouldn't part out this amendment. Focusing solely on the shall not infringe part while ignoring the regulated part.

there can and should be uniform standards of training across the board, continuing training and education. rules and regulations even laws regarding lax behavior surrounding ppossession.Weapons are far too serious to fuck around.

You leave a weapon out for a child to get hold of, grieve in prison. none of that shit is accidental. its readily foreseen.

all weapons begin as legal from the manufacturers. are the street guns stolen from them? the gun stores? private hands? trace serial numbers and hold the negilgent parties accountable.

stop all person to person private sales. this area I believe is where most of the generic crime guns come from. same with the gang weapons.

I really like what Mcgruff has shared about Jerseys laws. would love to see that model adopted in whole or in part nationwide.

I like person to person sales.  I like the govt not knowing everything I do.  What I will give you is if that firearm sales, if not legally done within a person to person should be a punishable offense.

I'd like to own whatever I want in any state.  If you want me to train for that and re-certify every couple of years then fine but I'd like to be able to still own the cool stuff.  After so many years one should be grandfathered in.  If a cop gets to conceal for the rest of his life after 20 years of service and pretty much own what he wants then I should get the same treatment after so many years.

That's my offer.

My dad and brother are both cops in California (dad retired 15 years ago), and neither get to own whatever they want. Really the only difference is they can buy high capacity magazines, but any guns banned in CA for anyone else they can’t buy because they are a cop. They do get carry concealed  permits for life like you said though.

In a gun shop there are firearms with a stamp that says "for law enforcement only" and they can indeed buy those guns.  Those High capacity magazines should be stamped with the same label on them.

EDIT:  I didn't mean they can buy a machine gun but they can buy banned guns offered for sale with that stamp on them.

I’ll have to ask my brother, he’s a big time gun collector (“gun nut” to many). I’ve seen those signs or stamps, but always thought it was an accessory like high capacity magazine . 
Either way I did think you meant literally any gun they wanted, which you already clarified.  Now I’m curious which guns would get that stamp and why.

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

its extremely important to understand the language and usage of the day.

regulated meant to make regular, as in well trained. State could mean country or individual State. regardless we shouldn't part out this amendment. Focusing solely on the shall not infringe part while ignoring the regulated part.

there can and should be uniform standards of training across the board, continuing training and education. rules and regulations even laws regarding lax behavior surrounding ppossession.Weapons are far too serious to fuck around.

You leave a weapon out for a child to get hold of, grieve in prison. none of that shit is accidental. its readily foreseen.

all weapons begin as legal from the manufacturers. are the street guns stolen from them? the gun stores? private hands? trace serial numbers and hold the negilgent parties accountable.

stop all person to person private sales. this area I believe is where most of the generic crime guns come from. same with the gang weapons.

I really like what Mcgruff has shared about Jerseys laws. would love to see that model adopted in whole or in part nationwide.

I like person to person sales.  I like the govt not knowing everything I do.  What I will give you is if that firearm sales, if not legally done within a person to person should be a punishable offense.

I'd like to own whatever I want in any state.  If you want me to train for that and re-certify every couple of years then fine but I'd like to be able to still own the cool stuff.  After so many years one should be grandfathered in.  If a cop gets to conceal for the rest of his life after 20 years of service and pretty much own what he wants then I should get the same treatment after so many years.

That's my offer.

My dad and brother are both cops in California (dad retired 15 years ago), and neither get to own whatever they want. Really the only difference is they can buy high capacity magazines, but any guns banned in CA for anyone else they can’t buy because they are a cop. They do get carry concealed  permits for life like you said though.

In a gun shop there are firearms with a stamp that says "for law enforcement only" and they can indeed buy those guns.  Those High capacity magazines should be stamped with the same label on them.

EDIT:  I didn't mean they can buy a machine gun but they can buy banned guns offered for sale with that stamp on them.

I’ll have to ask my brother, he’s a big time gun collector (“gun nut” to many). I’ve seen those signs or stamps, but always thought it was an accessory like high capacity magazine . 
Either way I did think you meant literally any gun they wanted, which you already clarified.  Now I’m curious which guns would get that stamp and why.

Stuff like this