What is the 2nd Amendment?

In order for us to even remotely argue gun control, we have to use defined terms.  What is the second amendment?  How do you people define it?  It’s a long shot, but maybe we can come to a consensus here and and then work towards an agreement?

My thought process is the second amendment was placed in order to give citizens the equal power to take on the government if it ever came to that point.  It was never about hunting, it was about protecting personal sovereignty in the event the government ever became to big, to infringing, that the people, the citizens would be able to resist and ultimately cause a revolution.  And with that knowledge, the government knows their boundaries and acts accordingly.  That’s my interpretation at least.  I’m open to be wrong, but before anything we have to at least define something we are for or against.
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Comments

  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,807
    In order for us to even remotely argue gun control, we have to use defined terms.  What is the second amendment?  How do you people define it?  It’s a long shot, but maybe we can come to a consensus here and and then work towards an agreement?

    My thought process is the second amendment was placed in order to give citizens the equal power to take on the government if it ever came to that point.  It was never about hunting, it was about protecting personal sovereignty in the event the government ever became to big, to infringing, that the people, the citizens would be able to resist and ultimately cause a revolution.  And with that knowledge, the government knows their boundaries and acts accordingly.  That’s my interpretation at least.  I’m open to be wrong, but before anything we have to at least define something we are for or against.
    You’re describing the root cause of the problem. Like the bible, documents written by man can not remain relevant in perpetuity - they lack the context of changes in civilization.

    You won’t find consensus because some will be influenced by their bias to find meaning X, others meaning Y, etc. 

    This isn’t a long shot, it’s an impossibility. The meanings of almost every word or phrase in the 2nd amendment has changed between then and now, because society has changed yet the words remain the same.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    You are correct.  One only need to read source documents to understand that.

    http://www.wrongaboutguns.com
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,183
    edited May 2018
    In terms of grammar and clearly conveying an idea, the 2nd amendment is the worst piece of garbage the Founding Fathers left for us.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Every Amendment has been dumped on, if not people would be dragged out of Capital Buildings.  And they rightfully should.  Tarring and feathering needs to become a used practice again.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,643
    Congress was created to be the gatekeepers of your precious Constitution yet they are sitting on their hands and trampling in to dust , starting with your CIC and being backed up by McConnell Ryan & shit head Nunes  start with them ! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    This didn't start in 2017.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,187
    It’s about having a militia since there was no standing army at the time it was written. The thing about overthrowing the government is a created fantasy. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,893
    antiquated and irrelevant in today's world. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,643
    unsung said:
    This didn't start in 2017.
    i agree but today is today what do you propose we do about the past yrs ? we need to call them out and today is just as good as any other day ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    antiquated and irrelevant in today's world. 
    So is freedom of speech...

    Not a zippo...
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,173
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 14,153
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,703
    In order for us to even remotely argue gun control, we have to use defined terms.  What is the second amendment?  How do you people define it?  It’s a long shot, but maybe we can come to a consensus here and and then work towards an agreement?

    My thought process is the second amendment was placed in order to give citizens the equal power to take on the government if it ever came to that point.  It was never about hunting, it was about protecting personal sovereignty in the event the government ever became to big, to infringing, that the people, the citizens would be able to resist and ultimately cause a revolution.  And with that knowledge, the government knows their boundaries and acts accordingly.  That’s my interpretation at least.  I’m open to be wrong, but before anything we have to at least define something we are for or against.
    What weapons would be necessary to "take on the government" now?  Drones?  Tactical nukes?  Tanks?

    The key verbiage is "well regulated"
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,709
    The second amendment protects your musket from being taken by the government. 

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    To me, well-regulated means regulating to protect the citizens of the U.S. The right to bear arms is not more important than that. People can keep their muskets for hunting and sport. 

    Yes, seriously.
    Happy Wednesday all.

    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,173
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,380
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,380
    NTTIAWWT
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,173
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    I draw the line at clucking. I will not cluck. 
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 14,153
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    I draw the line at clucking. I will not cluck. 

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,173
    dankind said:
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    I draw the line at clucking. I will not cluck. 

    Or quack, honk or sing like a canary or any other species of bird or feather laden species.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • RenfieldRenfield NYC NYPosts: 439
    dankind said:
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    I draw the line at clucking. I will not cluck. 

    Or quack, honk or sing like a canary or any other species of bird or feather laden species.
    How about an Unladend Swallow? :lol: 
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 14,153
    Renfield said:
    dankind said:
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    I draw the line at clucking. I will not cluck. 

    Or quack, honk or sing like a canary or any other species of bird or feather laden species.
    How about an Unladend Swallow? :lol: 
    African or European?
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • RenfieldRenfield NYC NYPosts: 439
    dankind said:
    Renfield said:
    How about an Unladend Swallow? :lol: 
    African or European?
    European. African swallows are not migratory. =)
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    Kat said:
    The second amendment protects your musket from being taken by the government. 

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    To me, well-regulated means regulating to protect the citizens of the U.S. The right to bear arms is not more important than that. People can keep their muskets for hunting and sport. 

    Yes, seriously.
    Happy Wednesday all.

    What's great about the constitution was that it was open for interpretation and could be changed.

    We can still use prisoners for slave labor if we want to hold the constitution to the T.  That's 13 I believe?

    It also doesn't mention muskets.  Right to bear arms or do they mean I actually have rights to my own arms?

    The musket thing is silly, really is.  I wish people would stop using that as an actual argument.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    dankind said:
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    I draw the line at clucking. I will not cluck. 

    Or quack, honk or sing like a canary or any other species of bird or feather laden species.
    No dice then, I'm out!
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 4,558
    The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,173
    dankind said:
    I’ll take tar and feathering if it means outlawing guns. Any takers?
    I would love to tar and feather you, YES!
    Kinky
    We just learned something about tempo that I’m not sure we wanted to know :lol: 
     
    I draw the line at clucking. I will not cluck. 

    Or quack, honk or sing like a canary or any other species of bird or feather laden species.
    No dice then, I'm out!
    And here I thought you had your groove on.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,035
    CM189191 said:
    The 2nd Amendment is systematic institutional structural racism 

    AMENDMENT II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



    We get dumber by the minute.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,524
    edited September 5
    its extremely important to understand the language and usage of the day.
    regulated meant to make regular, as in well trained. State could mean country or individual State. regardless we shouldn't part out this amendment. Focusing solely on the shall not infringe part while ignoring the regulated part.

    there can and should be uniform standards of training across the board, continuing training and education. rules and regulations even laws regarding lax behavior surrounding ppossession.Weapons are far too serious to fuck around.

    You leave a weapon out for a child to get hold of, grieve in prison. none of that shit is accidental. its readily foreseen.

    all weapons begin as legal from the manufacturers. are the street guns stolen from them? the gun stores? private hands? trace serial numbers and hold the negilgent parties accountable.

    stop all person to person private sales. this area I believe is where most of the generic crime guns come from. same with the gang weapons.

    I really like what Mcgruff has shared about Jerseys laws. would love to see that model adopted in whole or in part nationwide.
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
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