Do you know a murderer?!

dankind

^^^Mama Bear

Thirty Bills Unpaid

F Me In The Brain said:

SVRDhand13 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I thought that was kind of a weird post as well.  You buddy killed a guy so he didnt get his ass kicked?

Sounds like self defense to me.  

Not to derail on a debate about what constitutes murder but if you think someone is going to punch you around and you bring a knife, and he dies?  To me, that is murder. 
Take your ass kicking.
Bring your friends
Call the police
Even bring a bat.
Whatever...but carrying a knife and using it to avoid being punched up is murder, to me, if you stab someone to death.
I have taken a few beatings in my day and they suck.  I am very glad I never stabbed anyone to stop them.
That is me, though.  I totally recognize others might feel differently and I am fully aware that society these days looks at an ass kicking as something totally different than it did 25 years ago.

Btw, I do think it is awful that some asswipe chased the guy and beat him up because he was jealous...clearly that is wrong and the guy deserved a beating or punishment for it.  (I just dont think he deserved death.)

Just be a good little victim?

Come on, man.

There's definitely better ways to defend yourself... but the operative term is 'defend yourself'. I think it's better to advise people not to seek people out and kick their ass on a routine basis.

F Me In The Brain

Nothing in what I shared said to be a good victim.  Don't be silly.   Re-read and make a comment.

I am clear in my stance that the bully is wrong, and I support fighting back.  I just think bringing a lethal weapon to an anticipated fight is wrong.  Killing someone to avoid a punch up is wrong.  Taking human life is wrong.  (My belief, you can certainly believe and explain whatever you want.  )

Thirty Bills Unpaid

F Me In The Brain said:

Nothing in what I shared said to be a good victim.  Don't be silly.   Re-read and make a comment.

I am clear in my stance that the bully is wrong, and I support fighting back.  I just think bringing a lethal weapon to an anticipated fight is wrong.  Killing someone to avoid a punch up is wrong.  Taking human life is wrong.  (My belief, you can certainly believe and explain whatever you want.  )

You seem to suggest 'be a good victim' here too (Killing someone to avoid a punch up is wrong). I'm pretty sure the victim did not want to 'kill' his assailant as much as he likely wished for his assailant to leave him alone after repeated attacks.

There is no way the 'victim' can anticipate if the bully has a line he will not cross. Let's say the victim gets a couple good shots in while defending himself and his assailant becomes incensed... and escalates his intensity in the moment or walks away and seethes- plotting something more sinister: what then? Let's say the bully tires of the routine beatings and wishes to do some serious harm to the victim (curb stomp his arm... baseball bat... ): what then?

The victim has the right to take precautions they feel is necessary to defend themselves- they do not need to concern themselves with an assailant who is demonstrating a pattern of behaviour with no end in sight. A 'dust up' that ends at the scene... I'd agree with you; however, targeted and somewhat sociopathic behaviour is more serious. The victim did not need to play the victim so the shithead could play the bully.

If the victim had armed himself and hunted his assailant down... I'd be thinking your position is well taken, but if I remember correctly... the victim had armed himself to defend himself as he had been forced to before. Two different things in my mind.

Anyways... you or I aren't the problem here. I'd never victimize anyone and I don't get the feeling you would either. So... cheers to you and I for that.  

F Me In The Brain

I think you are missing my point, but that is ok.  You are correct that neither of us want to harm others.

I am not the type of person to turn the other cheek...I admit to being surprised that people seem to value human life so little but I guess I should not be, in this day and age where someone who is bullied feels justified in shooting the school up.  
The fact that so many of us know murderers or attempted murderers shows that I am in the minority with my opinions on this.  

FoxyRedLa

Is it a bully issue from the start? Were the attackers bullied? Learned behavior? Medication? Lost in life? Lonely? 

These school shootings need to fucking stop! There was a recent school stabbing too with 11 or so injured. Wtf man!?

I know that's a whole other discussion but feel free here to discuss anything lol.

FoxyRedLa

Would like to add I know there's no answer really to what I asked just seems by now we'd be further ahead. Have we learned nothing. 

RogueStoner

F Me In The Brain said:

Nothing in what I shared said to be a good victim.  Don't be silly.   Re-read and make a comment.

I am clear in my stance that the bully is wrong, and I support fighting back.  I just think bringing a lethal weapon to an anticipated fight is wrong.  Killing someone to avoid a punch up is wrong.  Taking human life is wrong.  (My belief, you can certainly believe and explain whatever you want.  )

I know you personally didn’t mean anything bad by that comment at all, so please don’t see this as a criticism against you. But, in general, maybe not the best thing for anyone to say when discussing something with people that have been hurt? It may make it seem like their feelings aren’t being validated? Just concerned.

I still agree that it is not ok to take another life, with a few exceptions...if someone is being brutally attacked where they truly fear for his or her life (usually not a bullying situation), or if someone harms my kids or my friends’ or acquaintances’ kids because I think of them as my own. Depends on what it is, but watch out! I may be little but I will beat some fuckers down if need be. Who’s gonna post a fighting midget gif for me?

But we also need to remember that bullying often does lead to a life taken...children as young as 8 are committing suicide because they feel they have no other way out. That is outrageous and must be stopped.  

And all all those stories where the bullies bring a weapon or kill the victim. Killer Kids...yikes! 

It’s a fucked up situation all the way around. 
And yes, I was bullied as a kid. It deeply affected me. I don’t believe in violence but when I was discussing bullying with my kids, I told them to fight back hard and squash that shit right away. Damn straight, I did!

josevolution

rgambs said:

josevolution said:

No i don't know anyone personally that has taken a human life , i tend to steer away from any violent person ...
To put it plainly i'd rather be with an animal ...

No veteran friends?

Not really can’t think of any from my past ..

josevolution

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

josevolution said:

No i don't know anyone personally that has taken a human life , i tend to steer away from any violent person ...
To put it plainly i'd rather be with an animal ...

Animals are pretty awesome, Jose!

Let's get the analogy right. How about... ohhh... "I'd rather pass a kidney stone!"

lol like it ! 

Asterisk on the Street

My co-worker at the US Postal Service shot and killed a supervisor at work. I had already transferred to another facility when it happened so I was not there at the time, but I was surprised when I found out who the shooter was. We worked together on a Letter Sorting Machine, and as a group we had all breaks and lunchtimes together on the graveyard shift for years. 

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-07-11/local/me-22544_1_postal-workers

Enkidu

My high school english teacher was murdered by her 18 year old daughter.  I think I was in graduate school at the time and my mom told me the girl waited until her father was out of town and made it look like a burglary gone wrong.  She shot her mother when her mother was asleep in bed.  This is in a small town so everybody knew everybody and it came out that my teacher (who was a fantastic teacher, btw) had verbally abused her daughter for years.  Lots of people in town rallied behind the girl - the family went to my church and the church was very supportive of the girl.  

She was convicted of first degree murder.  I'm not sure how long she was in prison, but she's been out for a while and I noticed her in my hometown Facebook group.  

HughFreakingDillon

Enkidu said:

My high school english teacher was murdered by her 18 year old daughter.  I think I was in graduate school at the time and my mom told me the girl waited until her father was out of town and made it look like a burglary gone wrong.  She shot her mother when her mother was asleep in bed.  This is in a small town so everybody knew everybody and it came out that my teacher (who was a fantastic teacher, btw) had verbally abused her daughter for years.  Lots of people in town rallied behind the girl - the family went to my church and the church was very supportive of the girl.  

She was convicted of first degree murder.  I'm not sure how long she was in prison, but she's been out for a while and I noticed her in my hometown Facebook group.  

jesus

cp3iverson

This guy was getting attacked over and over.   He’s supposed to take his beatings like a good little wimp?  

we dont even know the rest of the story but i dont blame any victim of violence for arming themselves with a weapon like a knife. I know im not the only one here who grew up on a rough block. 

RogueStoner

Speaking of rough blocks...I grew up in Chicago and walked everywhere by myself at all hours, including the West Side. Everyone wondered how I did that and stayed safe. I found out a couple years later why...it turns out everyone thought I was a cop. They figured there’s no way a little white girl could walk through that hood with that much confidence unless I was a cop.

RYME

I do not know any murderers. 
But back in 2001, I worked with a friend of mine at a outdoor camp for "troubled teens" in West Virginia.  The idea was to take troubled teens, young teens into the woods and rough it.  Hiking, backpacking and camping for 6 to 12 week sessions.  Teaching them survival skills, keeping them away from drugs and alcohol, or whatever other vices/demons they were struggling with.  The parents of  these kids were paying a fortune for this 6-12 week outdoor education/rehab program that did really great things for some of them, and not so much good for others. 
My job was logistics.  They had several different groups at a time at varying stages of the class.  So I was
Hauling food, & firewood out to the various campsites using a ATV with a trailer. 
My friend was one of the counselors for these kids.
Anyway I was involved in the groups orientation day.  They arrive in a bus
(10 kids/group) they get out and we are in the woods, that's where they get out.
They are given a backpack and all the Essentials, warm clothes/bedding xcetera needed for life in the forest.  They had tents in place already at the various campsites. 
I was there in January, February, & March that year, so it was cold snowy & winter.  The idea is that they are out of their element so they have no choice but to pay attention & do what they are told.
Each group gets orientation when they arrive.
During orientation I was handing out supplies/Essentials/backpacks to each of these kids, as they were listening to a guy telling them about the program and what they're trying to do and accomplish, and what the goal is.  (A departure from life's vices, a newfound self-respect, self-esteem, respect for others, respect for nature, self confidence, self purpose, teamwork, a sense of belonging, & perseverance, setting goals and accomplishing goals, and coming out a better person at the other end.)
A lot of the kids during orientation, are restless throwing snowballs, misbehaving, rude, disrespectful.  Talking smack to each other, running around.
But there was this one young kid in particular about 12 or 13 years old.  I handed him his stuff (most of the kids looked up at me and said thanks or made some sort of a snarky remark) But this (one) He didn't even look up at me.  He was not listening to the orientation speech, he wanted nothing to do with any of the other kids that were there.  He was staring at the ground.
Long story short, I told my friend (who was one of the counselors that was going to be working with this group.) . I said, "Hey!!, pay close attention to this one kid I think he's in trouble."  My friend said to me "What do you mean?". I said "all the other kids are running around throwing snowballs and arguing and being and being assholes."  I said this kid is in serious trouble, detached,,, he doesn't care about anything...  So my friend was one of the counselors camping out with the group.  I was in logistics so every evening I went back to  town where they had lodging for the employees. 
3 weeks later,,,

10:00pm I was in bed sleeping, I got a call from one of the bosses to get myself down to the Trailhead with the ATV, ASAP! possible suicide.  I got to the trailhead at the same time the ambulance got there,,, I had to give the paramedics a ride down into the camp on the ATV, the campsite was 2 miles in the woods off the road.  By the time we got there it was already too late.  One of the kids from a group, went missing around supper time 6 p.m. the search was on long before anyone called me, but they found him over a small hill only about 50 yards behind the campsite hanging in a tree unresponsive unrevivable.  The paramedics tried for a few a few minutes, but no such luck.  Pronounced him dead at the scene.
So they put him on a stretcher wrapped him up, and I had to drive him (13 year deceased kid on a stretcher,, strap it to the back of the ATV, and drive him & the paramedics out of the woods to the ambulance. 
It was the same 13 year old boy, that I was worried about during orientation, that I told my buddy to pay close attention to.
I don't blame my friend for not listening to me.  He had a job to do along with several other counselors, responsible for 10 kids.  One slipped out of sight for a few minutes after dusk.
But while I was driving out there to the sean, I knew before I got there which kid it was.
So, we all have our sad tales to tell.
https://youtu.be/pOGJntWO2UQ
Be careful with each other, these fragile flames,,,,

Who Princess

Sad story indeed, Ryme.

I don't think it's so strange that so many people here know someone who's committed a violent crime.  Especially with the internet and social media, we all have the chance to be overly informed about what people are doing and it's not hard to learn about someone we may have known a long time ago.

My dad grew up in the 1930s and 40s and had a story about how 2 people in his 3rd grade class grew up to become murderers, one of them even making the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list.  It wasn't a particularly violent time or place, just a weird coincidence.

A guy I knew in college committed a murder several years after we'd all graduated.  He was older than the rest of us that hung out together and was open about having a felony conviction for theft.  A lot of things in his background where unusual to me but he was trying to get a degree and improve his life.  It was obvious he was an alcoholic though.

He did OK for a few years after college, then things fell apart for him, for whatever reason.  He was working as a bartender in some crummy little place and one night got mad and stabbed another employee to death.  It was after closing, so there were no witnesses.  He was obviously intoxicated when the cops arrived and couldn't tell them much except he'd had a fight with the guy.  He received a life sentence and is still in prison.  Most of the people who'd known him in college were surprised at what he'd done.  While I'd never expected he'd do something like that, I wasn't completely surprised.  I'd had a few glimpses of his potential for violence and I was a little afraid of him.

bootlegger10

I knew a guy once who married an axe murderer.  Freaky stuff.

In fact he looks a lot like the avatar of who started this thread.  Is that you Charlie? 

dankind

bootlegger10 said:

I knew a guy once who married an axe murderer.  Freaky stuff.

In fact he looks a lot like the avatar of who started this thread.  Is that you Charlie? 

We have a piper down. I repeat: a piper is down. 

hauntingfamiliar

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I knew a guy once who married an axe murderer.  Freaky stuff.

In fact he looks a lot like the avatar of who started this thread.  Is that you Charlie? 

We have a piper down. I repeat: a piper is down. 

Look at the size of that boy's heed! HEAD! MOVE!