Nothing Mentioned About Swapping Seats Once Inside

Poncier

Vedd Hedd said:

Let's look at it this way:

John and Judy are married.  They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved.  They both won, they both bring friends. 
They walk into the venue together.  John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy.    Judy won the reserved tickets.  She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend.  Everyone gets in at the same time.    

Is that a violation?   this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few. 

Are John & Judy bringing their 18 month old child?

Gibson

MayDay10 said:

that could happen, but if an usher asks to see the "ticket" it could run into trouble I guess.

Let me explain why the past system made it unfair for some.  People who may have had good standing memberships would take a friend, spouse, etc in the past.  With the lottery, it made it beneficial to sign your 'partner' up as the ten club # didnt matter going for GA tickets, while the good seniority went for reserved.  People were certainly doubling their chances and $20 got another ball in the bucket.  These people need 1 pair of tickets and have increased their chances to obtaining a pair, and possibly even get an extra pair that could be traded for 10c seats to another show.

Others still had 1 entry.  

People who were members and would link up to try for tickets and might obtain an extra pair to share weren't necessarily a problem though... but each time there was a lottery, there was a noticeable trend of more and more people looking to trade extra pairs for extra pairs for other shows.... and finding plenty of takers.  Right here in the forum, facebook this was happening with regularity, and I would imagine some of these were being sold for more than face in other places.  Meanwhile, plenty of people were shut out of all shows.  People could have easily buddied-up and have multiple accounts they could manage to increase chances and tickets to skirt the system with ease.  10c Finally took notice and are trying a way to curb this.

+1. 

PJ_Soul

Vedd Hedd said:

Let's look at it this way:

John and Judy are married.  They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved.  They both won, they both bring friends. 
They walk into the venue together.  John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy.    Judy won the reserved tickets.  She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend.  Everyone gets in at the same time.    

Is that a violation?   this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few. 

I really don't see why it would be a violation. All 4 people are in the building legitimately, so surely 10C doesn't mind where the 4 legit fans end up sitting or standing. That would be totalitarian, lol.

OceansJenny

wnh1977 said:

I think it's rare examples like this that are left unclear.  I think this is a spectacular move by PJ, trying to make it as fair to everybody as possible, and it sounds like a ton of REAL fans are going to be able to get in the doors at face value.  Great!  HOWEVER, I don't see where the example listed in this thread is scamming the system. It is something that happens... groups congregate to these shows together.

People looking for TWO tickets should enter the lottery for TWO tickets, not four. Are we saying couples should have increased odds and twice the selection between seats? Why am I supposed to feel bad about this? If they strike out they can get TM verified fan tickets.

All of the complaints seem to not be about being able to see the show, but being able to see the show in everyone’s preferred way (seat optimization).  I’m glad 10c drew a line.

OceansJenny

dankind said:

Who the hell wants to sit with his/her spouse? Don't you see enough of that asshole?

Discussion over.

kaw753

know1 said:

If a husband and wife sold their two guest tickets and then managed to go in with the two people they sold them to and then swapped seats once inside so the husband and wife could sit together, only one of the 4 people would actually have a ticket for the seat to which they were assigned. 

I wouldn't want to be the one trying to get to my nice reserved seat with my wife and hoping that they wouldn't check her ticket. Or if someone happened to be sitting in her seat, what would you do? You'd have no proof that was her seat.

And would you want to be the person buying one of the tickets from the husband and wife - knowing you'd have to go in whenever they did and that you wouldn't even have a copy of the ticket once inside to allow you to get past any ushers or mitigate someone else sitting in your seat?

Take a screen shot of the ticket app and send it to the other person after you have entered. The ushers aren't going to be members of the CSI:Cyber team. 

OceansJenny

MayDay10 said:

that could happen, but if an usher asks to see the "ticket" it could run into trouble I guess.

Let me explain why the past system made it unfair for some.  People who may have had good standing memberships would take a friend, spouse, etc in the past.  With the lottery, it made it beneficial to sign your 'partner' up as the ten club # didnt matter going for GA tickets, while the good seniority went for reserved.  People were certainly doubling their chances and $20 got another ball in the bucket.  These people need 1 pair of tickets and have increased their chances to obtaining a pair, and possibly even get an extra pair that could be traded for 10c seats to another show.

Others still had 1 entry.  

People who were members and would link up to try for tickets and might obtain an extra pair to share weren't necessarily a problem though... but each time there was a lottery, there was a noticeable trend of more and more people looking to trade extra pairs for extra pairs for other shows.... and finding plenty of takers.  Right here in the forum, facebook this was happening with regularity, and I would imagine some of these were being sold for more than face in other places.  Meanwhile, plenty of people were shut out of all shows.  People could have easily buddied-up and have multiple accounts they could manage to increase chances and tickets to skirt the system with ease.  10c Finally took notice and are trying a way to curb this.

Beautifully summarized - I forgot about all the selfish people entering in for multiple shows they never intended on going to and swapping for seat upgrades or other shows.

steved

OceansJenny said:

wnh1977 said:

I think it's rare examples like this that are left unclear.  I think this is a spectacular move by PJ, trying to make it as fair to everybody as possible, and it sounds like a ton of REAL fans are going to be able to get in the doors at face value.  Great!  HOWEVER, I don't see where the example listed in this thread is scamming the system. It is something that happens... groups congregate to these shows together.

People looking for TWO tickets should enter the lottery for TWO tickets, not four. Are we saying couples should have increased odds and twice the selection between seats? Why am I supposed to feel bad about this? If they strike out they can get TM verified fan tickets.

All of the complaints seem to not be about being able to see the show, but being able to see the show in everyone’s preferred way (seat optimization).  I’m glad 10c drew a line.

One person, one membership, one chance to buy tix.

Two people, two memberships, two chances to buy tickets.

Whether they are friends, ticket buddies or husband and wife. 

You can't just generalize. 

There is only so much you can do to try to limit or control taking advantage of the system. I have seen single people with ticket buddies help them "optimize" their chances. I have seen couples do it and not do it. In the end it is a good system but you can't tell someone who pays they can't buy tix. 

PJ_Soul

I mean, I'm just one person who just wants one ticket and 10C literally forces me to buy double the number of tickets that I need, so I don't see how anyone could object that a couple is buying double the number of tickets they need. If that is a problem with the 10C then that is a serious double standard.

jeffbr

steved said:

OceansJenny said:

wnh1977 said:

I think it's rare examples like this that are left unclear.  I think this is a spectacular move by PJ, trying to make it as fair to everybody as possible, and it sounds like a ton of REAL fans are going to be able to get in the doors at face value.  Great!  HOWEVER, I don't see where the example listed in this thread is scamming the system. It is something that happens... groups congregate to these shows together.

People looking for TWO tickets should enter the lottery for TWO tickets, not four. Are we saying couples should have increased odds and twice the selection between seats? Why am I supposed to feel bad about this? If they strike out they can get TM verified fan tickets.

All of the complaints seem to not be about being able to see the show, but being able to see the show in everyone’s preferred way (seat optimization).  I’m glad 10c drew a line.

One person, one membership, one chance to buy tix.

Two people, two memberships, two chances to buy tickets.

Whether they are friends, ticket buddies or husband and wife. 

You can't just generalize. 

There is only so much you can do to try to limit or control taking advantage of the system. I have seen single people with ticket buddies help them "optimize" their chances. I have seen couples do it and not do it. In the end it is a good system but you can't tell someone who pays they can't buy tix. 

Let's do away with transfers all together then. It would certainly drastically scale back the number of entries for tickets that aren't intended to be used by the winners. I'm glad they've done away with allowing pairs to be transferred. That should help.

Vedd Hedd

Poncier said:

Vedd Hedd said:

Let's look at it this way:

John and Judy are married.  They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved.  They both won, they both bring friends. 
They walk into the venue together.  John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy.    Judy won the reserved tickets.  She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend.  Everyone gets in at the same time.    

Is that a violation?   this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few. 

Are John & Judy bringing their 18 month old child?

haha

Vedd Hedd

PJ_Soul said:

I mean, I'm just one person who just wants one ticket and 10C literally forces me to buy double the number of tickets that I need, so I don't see how anyone could object that a couple is buying double the number of tickets they need. If that is a problem with the 10C then that is a serious double standard.

good point there. 

MayDay10

tickets are traditionally sold in pairs though.

essentially, entering the lottery is actually buying tickets, you enter the cc info, and many entries go in with no intent on using those tickets (if they get selected double, triple, etc).  in f5 days, a couple wouldnt both buy tickets, and people wouldnt be signing up spouses with #s of 600xxx to go after tickets.  gaming the system turns it into an arms race and makes the odds longer for everybody

PJ_Soul

I think that turning a couple into a single entity just seems kind of fucked up. They are still individual human beings. The suggestion almost seems offensive to me.

PJNB

Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really. 

PJ_Soul

PJNB said:

Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really. 

Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.

PJNB

PJ_Soul said:

PJNB said:

Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really. 

Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.

Seems like you are one of the few but welcome to the right side of the argument! Kidding of course. Just feel like some people believe one thing and others believe another and nothing is going to change this. 10 club is going to do as they will to have us get tickets in the way we are intended to get them. I just hope that there are not a lot of empty seats out there because people are eating their tickets since they can't sell them in pairs anymore.  

PJ_Soul

PJNB said:

PJ_Soul said:

PJNB said:

Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really. 

Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.

Seems like you are one of the few but welcome to the right side of the argument! Kidding of course. Just feel like some people believe one thing and others believe another and nothing is going to change this. 10 club is going to do as they will to have us get tickets in the way we are intended to get them. I just hope that there are not a lot of empty seats out there because people are eating their tickets since they can't sell them in pairs anymore.  

If people let that happen then they're pretty stupid. There will be plenty of people happy to buy whatever spare tickets they have, no matter where they happen to be and no matter how many there are... or maybe I'm not getting you... Do you think people would actually not go to a show because of this???? I can't see that happening. People will adjust. They're just whining. People hate change, lol.

PJNB

PJ_Soul said:

PJNB said:

PJ_Soul said:

PJNB said:

Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really. 

Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.

Seems like you are one of the few but welcome to the right side of the argument! Kidding of course. Just feel like some people believe one thing and others believe another and nothing is going to change this. 10 club is going to do as they will to have us get tickets in the way we are intended to get them. I just hope that there are not a lot of empty seats out there because people are eating their tickets since they can't sell them in pairs anymore.  

If people let that happen then they're pretty stupid. There will be plenty of people happy to buy whatever spare tickets they have, no matter where they happen to be and no matter how many there are... or maybe I'm not getting you... Do you think people would actually not go to a show because of this???? I can't see that happening. People will adjust. They're just whining. People hate change, lol.

No I am just saying that a couple (or ticket buddies for that matter. This should not be a household and couples debate imo)  will get 4 tickets. Each ten club member will have 1 seat tied to their name. Since the member with the worse seats will move up with their ticket partner they will only be able to sell their guest ticket and the ticket tied to their name would go empty. That is unless people manipulated the system and had someone sit in a seat that was not assigned to them. GA this does not matter btw just reserved. 

MayDay10

PJNB said:

Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really. 

not true.  f5 was best for me, and i had great success with it.  but the lottery method has been a vast improvement overall in most categories, even though i havent had great fortune with it.

your situation wasnt the problem and not why change was necessary.  how many people's spouses/family were relatively indifferent about the band, but were signed up by and controlled by the 10c member to increase odds and ticket chances?  

9 times out of 10.... extra tickets were offered only for other extra tickets to other shows.  essentially, people who buddied up with multiple people and increased their chances were capable of attending numerous shows in 10c seats, while many people were shut out completely.  i would also bet the house that a lot of pairs were getting sold/traded above cost.  it was a trend.  there was a bust in the system, so 10c felt the need to close it a bit.

again, real fans who got married and were trying for tickets werent the glaring problem.