I can't find the post, but somebody mentioned that he and his wife are both members and they both always try to get tickets. In the past if they both win, they would have friends (another couple) use their extra seats. First off, I'm not sure how this is shady. Two paying members are given 2 pairs of tickets. They were concerned, under this new ticket policy, that they might not be able to sit next to their significant other. However, I'm not seeing anything posted about not being able to swap seats once inside. Is this correct?
Could a ticket-winning husband and a ticket-winning wife get scanned in with their "guests" and then partner up with who they want to sit with (husband and wife use husband's seats, "guests" use wife's seats) once inside the venue?
I don't know if i would go as far as calling it "shady." but it is clearly against the intentions and rules of 10c when there is never an intent to use the second pair of tickets, and is only ever going to be sold off. I have no problem with 2 memberships doubling your chances, or getting you better chances for 2 different shows. But it is a little annoying to see both win and immediately sell one pair off. It isn't the increased chances, it is the intentional purchase of tickets that can;t even be used by the member. That's why some call it shady I think. Like the past post said, it should be 1 per household per show if they really wanted to enforce that.
that could happen, but if an usher asks to see the "ticket" it could run into trouble I guess.
Speaking of this, I’m getting tired of going to shows and finding other people in my seats. I swear to god like the last 3 or 4 shows I’ve been to this has been the case. In the past I would just take the seats next to mine and when the person in those seats showed up I’d make the others move. But it’s always when the show has started, it’s dark, semi arguments have insued. The usher has to get involved with the damn flashlight. It’s just really disruptive and spoils the flow of the show. I mean how hard is it to make sure your in the right seat?
that could happen, but if an usher asks to see the "ticket" it could run into trouble I guess.
Speaking of this, I’m getting tired of going to shows and finding other people in my seats. I swear to god like the last 3 or 4 shows I’ve been to this has been the case. In the past I would just take the seats next to mine and when the person in those seats showed up I’d make the others move. But it’s always when the show has started, it’s dark, semi arguments have insued. The usher has to get involved with the damn flashlight. It’s just really disruptive and spoils the flow of the show. I mean how hard is it to make sure your in the right seat?
If someone's in your seats that you paid for, why wouldn't you ask them to move immediately? Maybe I'm a bitch, but that's what I do.
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
Edit: It seems this scenario was brought up, but hopefully this clarified it.
that could happen, but if an usher asks to see the "ticket" it could run into trouble I guess.
Speaking of this, I’m getting tired of going to shows and finding other people in my seats. I swear to god like the last 3 or 4 shows I’ve been to this has been the case. In the past I would just take the seats next to mine and when the person in those seats showed up I’d make the others move. But it’s always when the show has started, it’s dark, semi arguments have insued. The usher has to get involved with the damn flashlight. It’s just really disruptive and spoils the flow of the show. I mean how hard is it to make sure your in the right seat?
Happens all the time. People make mistakes. Easily cleared up once you take a look at their seats.
I have zero tolerance for those who are just trying to get a better seat.
Taking the seats next to yours that when someone is in your seats adds to the problem. Always take your seats.
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
I look at it this way. What is the intent of the rule, and would this or any scenario follow the intent? The intent is to make sure 10c members get tickets first with a guest, and to try and prevent them from reselling it. That sounds like it follows the intent pretty well. Even if the couple swapped so they stayed together, I would imagine in most cases they would have stayed as group of 4 in that scenario (assuming they really were "friends" and not some stranger they sold them to). What does not follow the intention is buying 4 tickets and then selling 2 to strangers (even at face value). And I've seen plenty of 10c tickets for sale way above face value, so lets not pretend every couple with the extra tickets sells them on Lost Dogs for what they paid. If someone is buying 4 tickets with the intention of only using 2, that isn't following the spirit of the rule. Hence a violation in my opinion. Now I don't get all bent out of shape about it, but since it was asked that is my opinion.
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
This is where I think people are overthinking things. Whether its a violation or not.........that is going to be hard to enforce. I wouldn't worry about it. If John and Judy are giving their extras to other fans or friends I don't have a problem with this at all.
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
I look at it this way. What is the intent of the rule, and would this or any scenario follow the intent? The intent is to make sure 10c members get tickets first with a guest, and to try and prevent them from reselling it. That sounds like it follows the intent pretty well. Even if the couple swapped so they stayed together, I would imagine in most cases they would have stayed as group of 4 in that scenario (assuming they really were "friends" and not some stranger they sold them to). What does not follow the intention is buying 4 tickets and then selling 2 to strangers (even at face value). And I've seen plenty of 10c tickets for sale way above face value, so lets not pretend every couple with the extra tickets sells them on Lost Dogs for what they paid. If someone is buying 4 tickets with the intention of only using 2, that isn't following the spirit of the rule. Hence a violation in my opinion. Now I don't get all bent out of shape about it, but since it was asked that is my opinion.
If you buy four with the intention of selling two for profit you are scum. Nothing illegal about it. Perfectly within your rights. Ethically wrong. Thats a clear violation.
Hard to prove intent though. An usher isn't going to waste time being the judge and jury with 50k people running around. Good intentions, or bad, whether they swapped or stayed together.... how are you ever going to prove what they are doing ? Impossible to disprove "friendship" or "relationships". There is absolutely no way of knowing.
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
Are John & Judy bringing their 18 month old child?
that could happen, but if an usher asks to see the "ticket" it could run into trouble I guess.
Let me explain why the past system made it unfair for some. People who may have had good standing memberships would take a friend, spouse, etc in the past. With the lottery, it made it beneficial to sign your 'partner' up as the ten club # didnt matter going for GA tickets, while the good seniority went for reserved. People were certainly doubling their chances and $20 got another ball in the bucket. These people need 1 pair of tickets and have increased their chances to obtaining a pair, and possibly even get an extra pair that could be traded for 10c seats to another show.
Others still had 1 entry.
People who were members and would link up to try for tickets and might obtain an extra pair to share weren't necessarily a problem though... but each time there was a lottery, there was a noticeable trend of more and more people looking to trade extra pairs for extra pairs for other shows.... and finding plenty of takers. Right here in the forum, facebook this was happening with regularity, and I would imagine some of these were being sold for more than face in other places. Meanwhile, plenty of people were shut out of all shows. People could have easily buddied-up and have multiple accounts they could manage to increase chances and tickets to skirt the system with ease. 10c Finally took notice and are trying a way to curb this.
+1.
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John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
I really don't see why it would be a violation. All 4 people are in the building legitimately, so surely 10C doesn't mind where the 4 legit fans end up sitting or standing. That would be totalitarian, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think it's rare examples like this that are left unclear. I think this is a spectacular move by PJ, trying to make it as fair to everybody as possible, and it sounds like a ton of REAL fans are going to be able to get in the doors at face value. Great! HOWEVER, I don't see where the example listed in this thread is scamming the system. It is something that happens... groups congregate to these shows together.
People looking for TWO tickets should enter the lottery for TWO tickets, not four. Are we saying couples should have increased odds and twice the selection between seats? Why am I supposed to feel bad about this? If they strike out they can get TM verified fan tickets.
All of the complaints seem to not be about being able to see the show, but being able to see the show in everyone’s preferred way (seat optimization). I’m glad 10c drew a line.
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If a husband and wife sold their two guest tickets and then managed to go in with the two people they sold them to and then swapped seats once inside so the husband and wife could sit together, only one of the 4 people would actually have a ticket for the seat to which they were assigned.
I wouldn't want to be the one trying to get to my nice reserved seat with my wife and hoping that they wouldn't check her ticket. Or if someone happened to be sitting in her seat, what would you do? You'd have no proof that was her seat.
And would you want to be the person buying one of the tickets from the husband and wife - knowing you'd have to go in whenever they did and that you wouldn't even have a copy of the ticket once inside to allow you to get past any ushers or mitigate someone else sitting in your seat?
Take a screen shot of the ticket app and send it to the other person after you have entered. The ushers aren't going to be members of the CSI:Cyber team.
that could happen, but if an usher asks to see the "ticket" it could run into trouble I guess.
Let me explain why the past system made it unfair for some. People who may have had good standing memberships would take a friend, spouse, etc in the past. With the lottery, it made it beneficial to sign your 'partner' up as the ten club # didnt matter going for GA tickets, while the good seniority went for reserved. People were certainly doubling their chances and $20 got another ball in the bucket. These people need 1 pair of tickets and have increased their chances to obtaining a pair, and possibly even get an extra pair that could be traded for 10c seats to another show.
Others still had 1 entry.
People who were members and would link up to try for tickets and might obtain an extra pair to share weren't necessarily a problem though... but each time there was a lottery, there was a noticeable trend of more and more people looking to trade extra pairs for extra pairs for other shows.... and finding plenty of takers. Right here in the forum, facebook this was happening with regularity, and I would imagine some of these were being sold for more than face in other places. Meanwhile, plenty of people were shut out of all shows. People could have easily buddied-up and have multiple accounts they could manage to increase chances and tickets to skirt the system with ease. 10c Finally took notice and are trying a way to curb this.
Beautifully summarized - I forgot about all the selfish people entering in for multiple shows they never intended on going to and swapping for seat upgrades or other shows.
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
I think it's rare examples like this that are left unclear. I think this is a spectacular move by PJ, trying to make it as fair to everybody as possible, and it sounds like a ton of REAL fans are going to be able to get in the doors at face value. Great! HOWEVER, I don't see where the example listed in this thread is scamming the system. It is something that happens... groups congregate to these shows together.
People looking for TWO tickets should enter the lottery for TWO tickets, not four. Are we saying couples should have increased odds and twice the selection between seats? Why am I supposed to feel bad about this? If they strike out they can get TM verified fan tickets.
All of the complaints seem to not be about being able to see the show, but being able to see the show in everyone’s preferred way (seat optimization). I’m glad 10c drew a line.
One person, one membership, one chance to buy tix.
Two people, two memberships, two chances to buy tickets.
Whether they are friends, ticket buddies or husband and wife.
You can't just generalize.
There is only so much you can do to try to limit or control taking advantage of the system. I have seen single people with ticket buddies help them "optimize" their chances. I have seen couples do it and not do it. In the end it is a good system but you can't tell someone who pays they can't buy tix.
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I mean, I'm just one person who just wants one ticket and 10C literally forces me to buy double the number of tickets that I need, so I don't see how anyone could object that a couple is buying double the number of tickets they need. If that is a problem with the 10C then that is a serious double standard.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think it's rare examples like this that are left unclear. I think this is a spectacular move by PJ, trying to make it as fair to everybody as possible, and it sounds like a ton of REAL fans are going to be able to get in the doors at face value. Great! HOWEVER, I don't see where the example listed in this thread is scamming the system. It is something that happens... groups congregate to these shows together.
People looking for TWO tickets should enter the lottery for TWO tickets, not four. Are we saying couples should have increased odds and twice the selection between seats? Why am I supposed to feel bad about this? If they strike out they can get TM verified fan tickets.
All of the complaints seem to not be about being able to see the show, but being able to see the show in everyone’s preferred way (seat optimization). I’m glad 10c drew a line.
One person, one membership, one chance to buy tix.
Two people, two memberships, two chances to buy tickets.
Whether they are friends, ticket buddies or husband and wife.
You can't just generalize.
There is only so much you can do to try to limit or control taking advantage of the system. I have seen single people with ticket buddies help them "optimize" their chances. I have seen couples do it and not do it. In the end it is a good system but you can't tell someone who pays they can't buy tix.
Let's do away with transfers all together then. It would certainly drastically scale back the number of entries for tickets that aren't intended to be used by the winners. I'm glad they've done away with allowing pairs to be transferred. That should help.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends. They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
Are John & Judy bringing their 18 month old child?
I mean, I'm just one person who just wants one ticket and 10C literally forces me to buy double the number of tickets that I need, so I don't see how anyone could object that a couple is buying double the number of tickets they need. If that is a problem with the 10C then that is a serious double standard.
essentially, entering the lottery is actually buying tickets, you enter the cc info, and many entries go in with no intent on using those tickets (if they get selected double, triple, etc). in f5 days, a couple wouldnt both buy tickets, and people wouldnt be signing up spouses with #s of 600xxx to go after tickets. gaming the system turns it into an arms race and makes the odds longer for everybody
I think that turning a couple into a single entity just seems kind of fucked up. They are still individual human beings. The suggestion almost seems offensive to me.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really.
Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really.
Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.
Seems like you are one of the few but welcome to the right side of the argument! Kidding of course. Just feel like some people believe one thing and others believe another and nothing is going to change this. 10 club is going to do as they will to have us get tickets in the way we are intended to get them. I just hope that there are not a lot of empty seats out there because people are eating their tickets since they can't sell them in pairs anymore.
Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really.
Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.
Seems like you are one of the few but welcome to the right side of the argument! Kidding of course. Just feel like some people believe one thing and others believe another and nothing is going to change this. 10 club is going to do as they will to have us get tickets in the way we are intended to get them. I just hope that there are not a lot of empty seats out there because people are eating their tickets since they can't sell them in pairs anymore.
If people let that happen then they're pretty stupid. There will be plenty of people happy to buy whatever spare tickets they have, no matter where they happen to be and no matter how many there are... or maybe I'm not getting you... Do you think people would actually not go to a show because of this???? I can't see that happening. People will adjust. They're just whining. People hate change, lol.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really.
Not necessarily. Each person in a couple having separate entries certainly doesn't benefit me in any way, as a single person. What is most fair suits me best, and forcing couples to act like they are one person is about as unfair as it gets.
Seems like you are one of the few but welcome to the right side of the argument! Kidding of course. Just feel like some people believe one thing and others believe another and nothing is going to change this. 10 club is going to do as they will to have us get tickets in the way we are intended to get them. I just hope that there are not a lot of empty seats out there because people are eating their tickets since they can't sell them in pairs anymore.
If people let that happen then they're pretty stupid. There will be plenty of people happy to buy whatever spare tickets they have, no matter where they happen to be and no matter how many there are... or maybe I'm not getting you... Do you think people would actually not go to a show because of this???? I can't see that happening. People will adjust. They're just whining. People hate change, lol.
No I am just saying that a couple (or ticket buddies for that matter. This should not be a household and couples debate imo) will get 4 tickets. Each ten club member will have 1 seat tied to their name. Since the member with the worse seats will move up with their ticket partner they will only be able to sell their guest ticket and the ticket tied to their name would go empty. That is unless people manipulated the system and had someone sit in a seat that was not assigned to them. GA this does not matter btw just reserved.
Seems like people like the method that suits them best. Shocking really.
not true. f5 was best for me, and i had great success with it. but the lottery method has been a vast improvement overall in most categories, even though i havent had great fortune with it.
your situation wasnt the problem and not why change was necessary. how many people's spouses/family were relatively indifferent about the band, but were signed up by and controlled by the 10c member to increase odds and ticket chances?
9 times out of 10.... extra tickets were offered only for other extra tickets to other shows. essentially, people who buddied up with multiple people and increased their chances were capable of attending numerous shows in 10c seats, while many people were shut out completely. i would also bet the house that a lot of pairs were getting sold/traded above cost. it was a trend. there was a bust in the system, so 10c felt the need to close it a bit.
again, real fans who got married and were trying for tickets werent the glaring problem.
Comments
Like the past post said, it should be 1 per household per show if they really wanted to enforce that.
John and Judy are married. They both try for tickets. One for GA, one for Reserved. They both won, they both bring friends.
They walk into the venue together. John has the GA tickets, so he scans in with Judy. Judy won the reserved tickets. She gives her phone to their friend, and the friend scans in with the other friend. Everyone gets in at the same time.
Is that a violation? this scenario doesnt apply to me, but it seems like it might apply to a few.
Nuclear fission
Nuclear fission
I have zero tolerance for those who are just trying to get a better seat.
Taking the seats next to yours that when someone is in your seats adds to the problem. Always take your seats.
The intent is to make sure 10c members get tickets first with a guest, and to try and prevent them from reselling it.
That sounds like it follows the intent pretty well. Even if the couple swapped so they stayed together, I would imagine in most cases they would have stayed as group of 4 in that scenario (assuming they really were "friends" and not some stranger they sold them to).
What does not follow the intention is buying 4 tickets and then selling 2 to strangers (even at face value). And I've seen plenty of 10c tickets for sale way above face value, so lets not pretend every couple with the extra tickets sells them on Lost Dogs for what they paid. If someone is buying 4 tickets with the intention of only using 2, that isn't following the spirit of the rule. Hence a violation in my opinion.
Now I don't get all bent out of shape about it, but since it was asked that is my opinion.
Problem solved.
Hard to prove intent though. An usher isn't going to waste time being the judge and jury with 50k people running around. Good intentions, or bad, whether they swapped or stayed together.... how are you ever going to prove what they are doing ? Impossible to disprove "friendship" or "relationships". There is absolutely no way of knowing.
Are John & Judy bringing their 18 month old child?
All of the complaints seem to not be about being able to see the show, but being able to see the show in everyone’s preferred way (seat optimization). I’m glad 10c drew a line.
Discussion over.
Two people, two memberships, two chances to buy tickets.
Whether they are friends, ticket buddies or husband and wife.
You can't just generalize.
There is only so much you can do to try to limit or control taking advantage of the system. I have seen single people with ticket buddies help them "optimize" their chances. I have seen couples do it and not do it. In the end it is a good system but you can't tell someone who pays they can't buy tix.
Nuclear fission
Nuclear fission
essentially, entering the lottery is actually buying tickets, you enter the cc info, and many entries go in with no intent on using those tickets (if they get selected double, triple, etc). in f5 days, a couple wouldnt both buy tickets, and people wouldnt be signing up spouses with #s of 600xxx to go after tickets. gaming the system turns it into an arms race and makes the odds longer for everybody
your situation wasnt the problem and not why change was necessary. how many people's spouses/family were relatively indifferent about the band, but were signed up by and controlled by the 10c member to increase odds and ticket chances?
9 times out of 10.... extra tickets were offered only for other extra tickets to other shows. essentially, people who buddied up with multiple people and increased their chances were capable of attending numerous shows in 10c seats, while many people were shut out completely. i would also bet the house that a lot of pairs were getting sold/traded above cost. it was a trend. there was a bust in the system, so 10c felt the need to close it a bit.
again, real fans who got married and were trying for tickets werent the glaring problem.