Oregonians Freaking Out About Having To Pump Their Own Gas

PJ_Soul

Smellyman said:

PJ_Soul said:

Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.

guaranteed the prettier one gets more tips with equal amount of work or less.

not that I am for feedback cards at all.

Well, that is true for some establishments, but not for others. But shit, attractiveness gives people an advantage in all industries. Attractive people also tend to get bigger bonuses, faster promotions, etc.  Sick but true.

benjs

PJ_Soul said:

benjs said:

PJ_Soul said:

Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.

Sorry PJSoul, maybe I didn’t express my premise properly. I’m stating that I feel that the impetus should be on the employer rather than the customer to reward an employee’s excellence. If gauging excellence is the concern, that’s where I felt that feedback would be necessary. 

Nothing is certain, but I have a feeling that a restaurant which tells its patrons that it provides bonuses for its staff based on customers’ feedback so that customers don’t have to, will get the twelve second (and honesty) investment out of their patrons. The incentive to the customer is very clear - they no longer have to pay a tip, and get to help the growth and development and fair compensation of the restaurant’s team.

Ah, now I understand.... Fair enough, but those bonuses would still be paid by the customers, since the cost of the bonuses would end up on the menu. Nobody is going to save money either way... But I think with the structure you are suggesting would result in a lot of servers getting less money, since bonuses are completely up to the owner/managers, and we all know the majority of them are not going to go out of their way to really fairly spread their profits around. Tips largely eliminate the impact of the greed or personal favourtism/spitefulness of management, which is a major argument for tipping.

I’m not talking about saving money; ultimately management bake their costs into their product or service prices anyways. At least this way, every customer pays the same amount for products and services without variability. Maybe it’s more difficult for me since what our business sells is cameras, but I don’t like the idea of my customers paying different amounts for the same product.

As for the favouritism argument, a good bonus program will treat all within a role impartially as it is results-driven.

PJ_Soul

benjs said:

PJ_Soul said:

benjs said:

PJ_Soul said:

Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.

Sorry PJSoul, maybe I didn’t express my premise properly. I’m stating that I feel that the impetus should be on the employer rather than the customer to reward an employee’s excellence. If gauging excellence is the concern, that’s where I felt that feedback would be necessary. 

Nothing is certain, but I have a feeling that a restaurant which tells its patrons that it provides bonuses for its staff based on customers’ feedback so that customers don’t have to, will get the twelve second (and honesty) investment out of their patrons. The incentive to the customer is very clear - they no longer have to pay a tip, and get to help the growth and development and fair compensation of the restaurant’s team.

Ah, now I understand.... Fair enough, but those bonuses would still be paid by the customers, since the cost of the bonuses would end up on the menu. Nobody is going to save money either way... But I think with the structure you are suggesting would result in a lot of servers getting less money, since bonuses are completely up to the owner/managers, and we all know the majority of them are not going to go out of their way to really fairly spread their profits around. Tips largely eliminate the impact of the greed or personal favourtism/spitefulness of management, which is a major argument for tipping.

I’m not talking about saving money; ultimately management bake their costs into their product or service prices anyways. At least this way, every customer pays the same amount for products and services without variability. Maybe it’s more difficult for me since what our business sells is cameras, but I don’t like the idea of my customers paying different amounts for the same product.

As for the favouritism argument, a good bonus program will treat all within a role impartially as it is results-driven.

Oh, yeah, this doesn't work for retail.
Haha, perhaps you have never worked in the hospitality industry? There is no way in hell that favourtism wouldn't be a major factor in a bonus system in so many restaurants. Unless the system was 100% regulated by law, it would be badly abused by many.
I guess I don't think that customers should be paying for service in restaurants without variability. Because that really isn't fair if your server sucks and your dining experience isn't very good because of it, while the people across the room have great server and enjoyed their time way more. Those people should pay more because they got more. I really don't think that a bonus system would curb bad service at all FWIW, as someone who worked in the industry for about 8 years.

mace1229

Smellyman said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Always thought that law was stupid. Have family in Oregon and I feel like such a waste of time. If you go at off hours there might only be 1 person working the store who has to run in to work the cash register, back out to pump, help other customers. I've waited over 10 minutes to just get the pump started before.
You go at busy times they might have more employees, but then there's a line of people waiting. I've almost never found it convenient. 
And for those who lived in OR their whole life and don't know how to do it, I would imagine every gas station will have a full service option for years to come. I remember most gas stations in California had a full service lane until the mid 90's they faded out when no one used them.

I suppose it sepends on location and time of day, but I’ve rarely had to wait over a minute for the attendant. 

I lived in Oregon for 10 years and never had to wait 10 minutes.  A minute or under always.

Last time I was there a few months ago I stopped at a gas station with 1 employee who had to do everything. It was about 10-15 minutes. It was in Trail, a small fishing town. You probably wouldn't wait 10 minutes in a big city. But when you have 1 employee trying to service 5 customers who aren't legally allowed to serve the self, it took over 10 minutes

mcgruff10

mace1229 said:

Smellyman said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Always thought that law was stupid. Have family in Oregon and I feel like such a waste of time. If you go at off hours there might only be 1 person working the store who has to run in to work the cash register, back out to pump, help other customers. I've waited over 10 minutes to just get the pump started before.
You go at busy times they might have more employees, but then there's a line of people waiting. I've almost never found it convenient. 
And for those who lived in OR their whole life and don't know how to do it, I would imagine every gas station will have a full service option for years to come. I remember most gas stations in California had a full service lane until the mid 90's they faded out when no one used them.

I suppose it sepends on location and time of day, but I’ve rarely had to wait over a minute for the attendant. 

I lived in Oregon for 10 years and never had to wait 10 minutes.  A minute or under always.

Last time I was there a few months ago I stopped at a gas station with 1 employee who had to do everything. It was about 10-15 minutes. It was in Trail, a small fishing town. You probably wouldn't wait 10 minutes in a big city. But when you have 1 employee trying to service 5 customers who aren't legally allowed to serve the self, it took over 10 minutes

I've lived in new jersey my whole life and never waited for more than a minute for someone to pump my gas.  

RiotZact

Way off topic here but after reading through this thread it really serves as a great example of how most rational, liberal minded people truly do believe in many core capitalist concepts even if they do have ideas on implementing some socialistic regulations on those core capitalist concepts. Some of these posts would serve as great deterrents to those that like to call us commies and what-not. 

brianlux

RiotZact said:

Way off topic here but after reading through this thread it really serves as a great example of how most rational, liberal minded people truly do believe in many core capitalist concepts even if they do have ideas on implementing some socialistic regulations on those core capitalist concepts. Some of these posts would serve as great deterrents to those that like to call us commies and what-not. 

Interesting observation, RiotZact.  Yeah, most of the people who identify themselves as "liberal" are definitely capitalists. Some of the most famous liberals are super duper capitalists.  And some folks are just simple scraping-by capitalists (booksellers and haberdashery shop owners, for example) without much choice in the economic ideological matter who appreciate some of the concepts of capitalism.  But who can really live that way in places like the U.S.?  Good luck with that!  I've only ever know a few true socialists and some of them are people who have lived in Fiji where (from what I'm told) their way of life is basically socialist only they don't refer to it by any label or slogan, it's just how they live. Need a hammer? You just run over to Ratu's place and grab one because that's the last place you saw one.  And then sooner or later someone will come over and grab it off your bench.  Don't like what the wife (or husband) is cooking?  Run over to Tevita's and see what she's got in the pot and help yourself.  Really, those are the stories I've heard from people who've lived there.  But it's extremely difficult to live as a true socialist in most countries, especially the U.S.  So yeah, some of us are freakin' watermelons. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

I know, again, I don't think $15 should be the minimum wage everywhere. Minimum wage should be directly related to the cost of living in the state or province in which the people are getting paid. There should be some kind of calculation that is used by every region to determine a fair minimum wage, based on average prices of housing, the rate of inflation, etc (and perhaps with some kind of means to make it even higher in the cases of specific cities where cost of living is out of control compared to the rest of the province/state).

agreed. 

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

I know, again, I don't think $15 should be the minimum wage everywhere. Minimum wage should be directly related to the cost of living in the state or province in which the people are getting paid. There should be some kind of calculation that is used by every region to determine a fair minimum wage, based on average prices of housing, the rate of inflation, etc (and perhaps with some kind of means to make it even higher in the cases of specific cities where cost of living is out of control compared to the rest of the province/state).

I worded my response poorly. I didn't mean to imply you said everyone needs $15/hr, I meant not everyone even needs a "livable wage." I certainly didn't my first job in high school, or even in college. I had a roof  food and clothing without it. Minimum wage jobs are typically little to no skill jobs designed for people with little or no education, experience or skills. There's no need to pay a high school kid living with his parents a livable wage to pump gas or work at McD's when his income goes to video games and junk food.
I recognize that many adults are in situations that have left them with no education, experience or skills and are forced to work minimum wage jobs. I think a better solution than over-paying everyone is to build those people up (and yes, not to be mean but I do consider any job a high-school drop out can do with no other skills and minimal training over-paid if they are making a "livable wage). My wife is a part-time teacher of adult education. She works for the local school district and teaches night classes a few times a week to adults without a high school diploma. The goal is to have them get their GED, or high school equivalent. It is free for adults in the area and even includes free child care for those who need it. Almost all of her students are in their 30s-40s. Basically it isnt a class designed for 18 year olds who just dropped out, it is for any adult who wishes to get a high school education to better themselves. 
I would much rather see my money spent towards programs like that, that to keep over-paying someone for a no-skill job. Allow them to move up, get an education, get a better job and learn new skills.

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.

I've known a lot of waiters or others who earned tips, and almost none of them reported tips accurately. Only the ones required to because they shared it with the chef or whomever, and even then it was sometimes questionable. But most weren't required too, and only about 1/10 of what they earned was reported on taxes.

HughFreakingDillon

yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 

Horos

mace1229

I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.

Cities simply can't function if no one who earns only minimum wage can live there. How do you run a city when you have no one to wash the dishes, clean the hotel rooms and office buildings, work in the coffee shops and grocery stores and, yes, gas stations? It's completely short sighted to say that these jobs, some full time, shouldn't pay enough to at least scrape by. No one is saying that wages for these jobs should be enough to make life easy in a larger city, but if they aren't possible then the city as a whole struggles. 

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.

Cities simply can't function if no one who earns only minimum wage can live there. How do you run a city when you have no one to wash the dishes, clean the hotel rooms and office buildings, work in the coffee shops and grocery stores and, yes, gas stations? It's completely short sighted to say that these jobs, some full time, shouldn't pay enough to at least scrape by. No one is saying that wages for these jobs should be enough to make life easy in a larger city, but if they aren't possible then the city as a whole struggles. 

Well if there aren't enough interest in the low wage jobs, then the employer would be forced to offer more money to fill them. Nothing wrong with that if the demand is there. But all those big cities seem to be doing fine and function well without (or before) a minimum wage of $15.
It just comes across to me that when it is said people can't live in those big cities at those prices, that it is somehow a right to live there, and would be inhumane to expect someone to move where they can afford. And yes, some of those jobs are full time and the primary source of income, but many are not. There's no need to pay a 16 year old kid a livable wage when that is not his intent of working.
And if you struggle at $10/hour living in LA, move less than an hour away to Lancaster where the cost of rent is literally about 1/3, and cost of owning a home is literally about 1/10.

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.

I've known a lot of waiters or others who earned tips, and almost none of them reported tips accurately. Only the ones required to because they shared it with the chef or whomever, and even then it was sometimes questionable. But most weren't required too, and only about 1/10 of what they earned was reported on taxes.

I actually never worked in a place where the a percentage of the server and bartender tips weren't shared with the kitchen and hosting staff, and because tips generally reflect the sales for the night, nobody risked cheating (at least not by any significant or meaningful amount). They wouldn't have gotten away with it. That is a very standard policy for any reputable restaurant or bar in this part of the world. Sounds like the waiters you know worked in some pretty unprofessional places. You're right about the tax part though. Literally nobody ever declared tips on their taxes, and the government didn't monitor it at all. That is why, fairly recently, the CRA cracked down on it - few people where I am are now neglecting to report their tips because they'll likely get busted immediately. I'm glad that wasn't the case when I worked in the industry, haha.

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 

New laws in BC require reporting for tax purposes now, but that is new - maybe only a couple years has the CRA started cracking down on this. Before that I never once met any server who declared them. I don't think it even occurred to anyone at the time I worked in the industry. Otherwise, they are reported by way of distribution to other staff. Servers cash out, report all their sales and whatever is left over is tips. Then a percentage of those are given to management so they can distribute it to the kitchen. I worked in many different places, and yes, it was pretty accurate, and I know that for a fact, lol. Of course there are some establishments packed full of completely dishonest scumbags, but there are also a lot of places that aren't, and I fortunately only worked for places like that.

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.

I've known a lot of waiters or others who earned tips, and almost none of them reported tips accurately. Only the ones required to because they shared it with the chef or whomever, and even then it was sometimes questionable. But most weren't required too, and only about 1/10 of what they earned was reported on taxes.

I actually never worked in a place where the a percentage of the server and bartender tips weren't shared with the kitchen and hosting staff, and because tips generally reflect the sales for the night, nobody risked cheating (at least not by any significant or meaningful amount). They wouldn't have gotten away with it. That is a very standard policy for any reputable restaurant or bar in this part of the world. Sounds like the waiters you know worked in some pretty unprofessional places. You're right about the tax part though. Literally nobody ever declared tips on their taxes, and the government didn't monitor it at all. That is why, fairly recently, the CRA cracked down on it - few people where I am are now neglecting to report their tips because they'll likely get busted immediately. I'm glad that wasn't the case when I worked in the industry, haha.

Well I was lumping anyone who received tips together. I had some friends in high school and college that were pizza delivery boys or things like that. They didn't split it, and half the time they made the pizza too.
And most restaurants yes did split with cooks and others, but most would admit if they got a huge tip, they might pocket $10 of it for themselves on a pretty regular basis. Like if there was a big party with a $400 bill and they tipped $100, they'd pocket a $10 or $20 of it. 
Probably a lot harder to do now that almost everyone pays with card, was much easier 15 years ago when a lot of people still paid cash.
I've never worked in a restaurant, but most of my friends would admit to that.
Maybe I just have shady friends. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 

New laws in BC require reporting for tax purposes now, but that is new - maybe only a couple years has the CRA started cracking down on this. Otherwise, they are reported by way of distribution to other staff. Servers cash out, report all their sales and whatever is left over is tips. Then a percentage of those are given to management so they can distribute it to the kitchen. I worked in many different places, and yes, it was pretty accurate, and I know that for a fact, lol. Of course there are some establishments packed full of completely dishonest scumbags, but there are also a lot of places that aren't, and I fortunately only worked for places like that.

I didn't work at a chain restaurant, and this was well before the interac machines brought to the table. people paid up at the register, so there was no way to know which waitress sold what. and they simply counted their tips at the end of their shift, and were expected to give 10% to the kitchen staff directly. it wasn't monitored by anyone. complete honour system. some bitches stiffed us hard, others were fair, and a select few gave more as they recognized that their tips were a reflection on not just her performance, but mine as well. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 

New laws in BC require reporting for tax purposes now, but that is new - maybe only a couple years has the CRA started cracking down on this. Otherwise, they are reported by way of distribution to other staff. Servers cash out, report all their sales and whatever is left over is tips. Then a percentage of those are given to management so they can distribute it to the kitchen. I worked in many different places, and yes, it was pretty accurate, and I know that for a fact, lol. Of course there are some establishments packed full of completely dishonest scumbags, but there are also a lot of places that aren't, and I fortunately only worked for places like that.

I didn't work at a chain restaurant, and this was well before the interac machines brought to the table. people paid up at the register, so there was no way to know which waitress sold what. and they simply counted their tips at the end of their shift, and were expected to give 10% to the kitchen staff directly. it wasn't monitored by anyone. complete honour system. some bitches stiffed us hard, others were fair, and a select few gave more as they recognized that their tips were a reflection on not just her performance, but mine as well. 

Yeah, I'm talking about back in the 90s when credit cards and debit cards were used (not at the table), but not nearly as often, and I did work for a couple of chain places, but I also worked for non-chain places. They were all on the up and up, and the staff was generally honest, or at least scared of being caught. It was a HUGE no-no to be dishonest about it - it would get you first hated by everyone, and then fired. People like the bitches who stiffed you wouldn't have lasted a week. I'm glad I didn't work with a bunch of creeps who ripped off their co-workers, geez.