Oregonians Freaking Out About Having To Pump Their Own Gas

hedonist

Go Beavers said:

hedonist said:

Smellyman said:

The thought of not filling your own tank freaking people out is beyond me.

devil's advocate.

FYI - I have never filled in Taiwan either.  Not sure if law or if all stations are just full service.

to the google machine....

Ah, but if you had to, you would, dammit

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind full-service if the cost remained the same.

Oregon’s always cheaper than Cali and most of the time cheaper than Washington 

Yup, I'm thankful (and fortunate) that I have to fill up only once a month!

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what a bizarre thing. there was a law that you couldn't pump your own gas in Oregon? what the actual fuck?

And in Jersey. Here in Oregon they say it was done to create jobs. 

That's the idea - to combat youth unemployment. It makes sense and I support it. There are two cities in metro Vancouver that have the same law (and 16% of gas stations in Canada are still full-service). Every other city and municipality around them has self-serve, but these two cities won't allow it because most of the gas station staff would lose their jobs. And people actually view these full-service stations in these two places as a real treat for the most part. It's a luxury to have someone else do it for you when you normally do it yourself. BTW, guess who fought and continues to fight against this law? Why, the gas station owners and oil companies, of course! They want more of that gas money in their own pockets! You do the work, they keep the cash.
(full-service is also particularly handy for seniors and disabled people)

is youth unemployment really that big an issue that something needs to be made law to combat it? Forcing an industry to hire people they don't need/want because of a societal issue? Yes, gas companies make a killing. the owner/operators of gas stations do not. So forcing them to hire people to solve this problem is not right.

I just read an article about youth employment in Winnipeg, and of course it's a "crisis" because so many kids are unemployed. But you speak to any business owner who employs lower-skilled jobs, it's a nightmare to fill those positions because youth of today simply don't want to work for what they deem "inadequate pay and benefits" (or they are staying in school and living with their parents much longer than previous generations). Fuck me. I worked for years for nearly minimum wage and zero benefits. Was I stupid? No. I had work ethic, and as a young person, I simply didn't require the benefits people are screaming about today. the businesses I worked for simply would not have survived if they had to pay out "living wages" and benefits to their zero-skilled workers. I lived on my own on $6 an hour with my girlfriend who also made minimum wage and tips. No sick days. No holidays. NOTHING. But youth today are expecting all this shit for working at Tim Horton's/Starbucks with zero skills and education. My wife says her experience in trying to hire low-skilled people in today's day is a fucking nightmare with how entitled these people are. 

I understand that it is important to lift up certain sectors of society so they can live off their earnings, even if they are minimal. I'd like to poll many of these people, however, who are crying for a living wage and ask them what their cell phone bill is every month. I'm not trying to sound like an old man here, but seriously,  many youth of today simply do not have their priorities straight when it comes to this stuff. 

do we really want to pay people enough money in these no-skill jobs so they STAY in those jobs and don't make room for the youth coming up in the next generation? Those jobs are meant for young people, not poor adults that want to live semi-comfortably on those wages. What is the motivation to better yourself if there's no reason to?

This $15 minimum wage thing seems a bit crazy to me. When I got hired where I work now, I made less than that (10 years ago). At an OFFICE JOB that required some level of experience and/or education. 

mickeyrat

hedonist said:

They aren't being forced to though, correct?  Just a small portion of residents have the option of doing it themselves?

Still, that something so simple and basic as filling your tank freaks some out is beyond me. 

iirc only between 6p and 6a in these more rural counties.....

F Me In The Brain

hedonist said:

Go Beavers said:

hedonist said:

Smellyman said:

The thought of not filling your own tank freaking people out is beyond me.

devil's advocate.

FYI - I have never filled in Taiwan either.  Not sure if law or if all stations are just full service.

to the google machine....

Ah, but if you had to, you would, dammit

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind full-service if the cost remained the same.

Oregon’s always cheaper than Cali and most of the time cheaper than Washington 

Yup, I'm thankful (and fortunate) that I have to fill up only once a month!

Lucky!  When I lived in LA I filled up every 2-3 days.  Fuck that!

Spiritual_Chaos

The US is such a weird country. 
Not being able to pump your own gas could be the premise of a Twilight Zone episode. 

hedonist

F Me In The Brain said:

hedonist said:

Go Beavers said:

hedonist said:

Smellyman said:

The thought of not filling your own tank freaking people out is beyond me.

devil's advocate.

FYI - I have never filled in Taiwan either.  Not sure if law or if all stations are just full service.

to the google machine....

Ah, but if you had to, you would, dammit

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind full-service if the cost remained the same.

Oregon’s always cheaper than Cali and most of the time cheaper than Washington 

Yup, I'm thankful (and fortunate) that I have to fill up only once a month!

Lucky!  When I lived in LA I filled up every 2-3 days.  Fuck that!

Well...a half-mile commute to work helps

Less than 3,000 miles a year, baby!  Hopefully this car is the last one I'll have - she's a beaut.

my2hands

Asked a buddy if mine in NJ why they don't let you pump the gas... he said because it's technically a hazardous material and flammable liquid... best answer I've heard

HughFreakingDillon

my2hands said:

Asked a buddy if mine in NJ why they don't let you pump the gas... he said because it's technically a hazardous material and flammable liquid... best answer I've heard

That was the only logical reason I could come up with. But people are allowed to buy lighters for their cigarettes. Oil for their car (or is that illegal to do yourself too?). 

are there too many people hosing others down at the pump and lighting them on fire? just bizarre. 

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

my2hands said:

Asked a buddy if mine in NJ why they don't let you pump the gas... he said because it's technically a hazardous material and flammable liquid... best answer I've heard

That was the only logical reason I could come up with. But people are allowed to buy lighters for their cigarettes. Oil for their car (or is that illegal to do yourself too?). 

are there too many people hosing others down at the pump and lighting them on fire? just bizarre. 

A lighter or oil won't just combust.

Gas with a little static electricity could.

Bold/italics made me think of this story:

My cousins friend Chris was a frail thing of a man about 15 years older than me.  He lived out in LA area around 1990.  He was in Hawthorne or some shitty area like that and a guy wanted to pump his gas.  He said "no thanks" and went in to pay.  People will do this to get a dollar off you at the gas stations.

When Chris comes out the guy insisted that he pump his gas, again he says "no".

The guy was damn sure hell going to pump Chris' gas and kind of moved him aside while going for the pump handle.

Chris swung around with the pump handle and soaked the guy from head to toe with gas, pulled out a cigarette and lit it and said to the guy "now you can pump my fucking gas!"

Dude high tailed it out of there.

brianlux

Spiritual_Chaos said:

The US is such a weird country. 
Not being able to pump your own gas could be the premise of a Twilight Zone episode. 

We are rather strange, aren't we!

benjs

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what a bizarre thing. there was a law that you couldn't pump your own gas in Oregon? what the actual fuck?

And in Jersey. Here in Oregon they say it was done to create jobs. 

That's the idea - to combat youth unemployment. It makes sense and I support it. There are two cities in metro Vancouver that have the same law (and 16% of gas stations in Canada are still full-service). Every other city and municipality around them has self-serve, but these two cities won't allow it because most of the gas station staff would lose their jobs. And people actually view these full-service stations in these two places as a real treat for the most part. It's a luxury to have someone else do it for you when you normally do it yourself. BTW, guess who fought and continues to fight against this law? Why, the gas station owners and oil companies, of course! They want more of that gas money in their own pockets! You do the work, they keep the cash.
(full-service is also particularly handy for seniors and disabled people)

Given that the consumer has the full ability to pump gas, I can’t comprehend why the government feels it acceptable to mandate ‘full service’. Toronto has full serve and self serve. I’ve seen some self serve stations become full serve, and vice-versa, as demand changes, because a premium is typically factored into gas prices at full serve stations to pay for the staffing needs and some see the value in the premium while others don’t. 

By this logic, we should all fight automation because it is easiest applied to production-type jobs, which seems absurd to me. It is assanine and unduly overbearing to tell employers they may only optimize processes until there comes the potential to remove employees, and it goes against core tenets of capitalism that we have the right to control our input and our efficiency to produce output.

Go Beavers

benjs said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what a bizarre thing. there was a law that you couldn't pump your own gas in Oregon? what the actual fuck?

And in Jersey. Here in Oregon they say it was done to create jobs. 

That's the idea - to combat youth unemployment. It makes sense and I support it. There are two cities in metro Vancouver that have the same law (and 16% of gas stations in Canada are still full-service). Every other city and municipality around them has self-serve, but these two cities won't allow it because most of the gas station staff would lose their jobs. And people actually view these full-service stations in these two places as a real treat for the most part. It's a luxury to have someone else do it for you when you normally do it yourself. BTW, guess who fought and continues to fight against this law? Why, the gas station owners and oil companies, of course! They want more of that gas money in their own pockets! You do the work, they keep the cash.
(full-service is also particularly handy for seniors and disabled people)

Given that the consumer has the full ability to pump gas, I can’t comprehend why the government feels it acceptable to mandate ‘full service’. Toronto has full serve and self serve. I’ve seen some self serve stations become full serve, and vice-versa, as demand changes, because a premium is typically factored into gas prices at full serve stations to pay for the staffing needs and some see the value in the premium while others don’t. 

By this logic, we should all fight automation because it is easiest applied to production-type jobs, which seems absurd to me. It is assanine and unduly overbearing to tell employers they may only optimize processes until there comes the potential to remove employees, and it goes against core tenets of capitalism that we have the right to control our input and our efficiency to produce output.

I get what you’re saying, but it’s been in place for ages and the logic hasn’t spread across other industries. In Oregon, there tends to be more of a do it yourself mindset that the government encourages in a lot of ways outside of the gas pumping rule. 

Also, no one has mentioned but there’s also the issue of spilling the gas with self-serve that adds up significantly. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what a bizarre thing. there was a law that you couldn't pump your own gas in Oregon? what the actual fuck?

And in Jersey. Here in Oregon they say it was done to create jobs. 

That's the idea - to combat youth unemployment. It makes sense and I support it. There are two cities in metro Vancouver that have the same law (and 16% of gas stations in Canada are still full-service). Every other city and municipality around them has self-serve, but these two cities won't allow it because most of the gas station staff would lose their jobs. And people actually view these full-service stations in these two places as a real treat for the most part. It's a luxury to have someone else do it for you when you normally do it yourself. BTW, guess who fought and continues to fight against this law? Why, the gas station owners and oil companies, of course! They want more of that gas money in their own pockets! You do the work, they keep the cash.
(full-service is also particularly handy for seniors and disabled people)

is youth unemployment really that big an issue that something needs to be made law to combat it? Forcing an industry to hire people they don't need/want because of a societal issue? Yes, gas companies make a killing. the owner/operators of gas stations do not. So forcing them to hire people to solve this problem is not right.

I just read an article about youth employment in Winnipeg, and of course it's a "crisis" because so many kids are unemployed. But you speak to any business owner who employs lower-skilled jobs, it's a nightmare to fill those positions because youth of today simply don't want to work for what they deem "inadequate pay and benefits" (or they are staying in school and living with their parents much longer than previous generations). Fuck me. I worked for years for nearly minimum wage and zero benefits. Was I stupid? No. I had work ethic, and as a young person, I simply didn't require the benefits people are screaming about today. the businesses I worked for simply would not have survived if they had to pay out "living wages" and benefits to their zero-skilled workers. I lived on my own on $6 an hour with my girlfriend who also made minimum wage and tips. No sick days. No holidays. NOTHING. But youth today are expecting all this shit for working at Tim Horton's/Starbucks with zero skills and education. My wife says her experience in trying to hire low-skilled people in today's day is a fucking nightmare with how entitled these people are. 

I understand that it is important to lift up certain sectors of society so they can live off their earnings, even if they are minimal. I'd like to poll many of these people, however, who are crying for a living wage and ask them what their cell phone bill is every month. I'm not trying to sound like an old man here, but seriously,  many youth of today simply do not have their priorities straight when it comes to this stuff. 

do we really want to pay people enough money in these no-skill jobs so they STAY in those jobs and don't make room for the youth coming up in the next generation? Those jobs are meant for young people, not poor adults that want to live semi-comfortably on those wages. What is the motivation to better yourself if there's no reason to?

This $15 minimum wage thing seems a bit crazy to me. When I got hired where I work now, I made less than that (10 years ago). At an OFFICE JOB that required some level of experience and/or education. 

I totally support using regulation to force big money industries to provide employment. If we were talking small businesses that are barely scraping by it would be different (though I still support increasing the minimum wage, just because governments fucked it all up; if they had increased it gradually and fairly over the past many years, a sudden big increase now wouldn't be an issue. But since they did that, now there is no other option), and that is why this law does only very specifically apply to gas stations and no one else. It's not hard to restrict it in this way, and I'm ALWAYS okay with regulating the gas and oil industry. They clearly need it, since without they abuse everything. But yeah, I think it's very reasonable to force the oil and gas industry to provide some good in communities when they would otherwise do everything they can to reduce service for customers and restrict employment to line their already stuffed pockets. As for jobs being "meant" for young people as opposed to older people.... I think that's hogwash. I think ALL people who work deserve a living wage. Their age is irrelevant. I think someone who pumps gas full time has just as much of a right to be able to support him or herself (or do whatever else they feel like doing with the money) as anyone else does. And I think any adult has every right in the world to decide that they are only cut out to work at a gas station, for whatever reason. The point is, all people who work full time should get paid enough to keep a roof over their heads if that's what they need to do. If they don't need to pay for the roof, then absolutely nobody can dictate what else they might do for the money, including spending it all on their data plan.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what a bizarre thing. there was a law that you couldn't pump your own gas in Oregon? what the actual fuck?

And in Jersey. Here in Oregon they say it was done to create jobs. 

That's the idea - to combat youth unemployment. It makes sense and I support it. There are two cities in metro Vancouver that have the same law (and 16% of gas stations in Canada are still full-service). Every other city and municipality around them has self-serve, but these two cities won't allow it because most of the gas station staff would lose their jobs. And people actually view these full-service stations in these two places as a real treat for the most part. It's a luxury to have someone else do it for you when you normally do it yourself. BTW, guess who fought and continues to fight against this law? Why, the gas station owners and oil companies, of course! They want more of that gas money in their own pockets! You do the work, they keep the cash.
(full-service is also particularly handy for seniors and disabled people)

is youth unemployment really that big an issue that something needs to be made law to combat it? Forcing an industry to hire people they don't need/want because of a societal issue? Yes, gas companies make a killing. the owner/operators of gas stations do not. So forcing them to hire people to solve this problem is not right.

I just read an article about youth employment in Winnipeg, and of course it's a "crisis" because so many kids are unemployed. But you speak to any business owner who employs lower-skilled jobs, it's a nightmare to fill those positions because youth of today simply don't want to work for what they deem "inadequate pay and benefits" (or they are staying in school and living with their parents much longer than previous generations). Fuck me. I worked for years for nearly minimum wage and zero benefits. Was I stupid? No. I had work ethic, and as a young person, I simply didn't require the benefits people are screaming about today. the businesses I worked for simply would not have survived if they had to pay out "living wages" and benefits to their zero-skilled workers. I lived on my own on $6 an hour with my girlfriend who also made minimum wage and tips. No sick days. No holidays. NOTHING. But youth today are expecting all this shit for working at Tim Horton's/Starbucks with zero skills and education. My wife says her experience in trying to hire low-skilled people in today's day is a fucking nightmare with how entitled these people are. 

I understand that it is important to lift up certain sectors of society so they can live off their earnings, even if they are minimal. I'd like to poll many of these people, however, who are crying for a living wage and ask them what their cell phone bill is every month. I'm not trying to sound like an old man here, but seriously,  many youth of today simply do not have their priorities straight when it comes to this stuff. 

do we really want to pay people enough money in these no-skill jobs so they STAY in those jobs and don't make room for the youth coming up in the next generation? Those jobs are meant for young people, not poor adults that want to live semi-comfortably on those wages. What is the motivation to better yourself if there's no reason to?

This $15 minimum wage thing seems a bit crazy to me. When I got hired where I work now, I made less than that (10 years ago). At an OFFICE JOB that required some level of experience and/or education. 

I totally support using regulation to force big money industries to provide employment. If we were talking small businesses that are barely scraping by it would be different, and that is why this law does only very specifically apply to gas stations and no one else. It's not hard to restrict it in this way, and I'm ALWAYS okay with regulating the gas and oil industry. They clearly need it, since without they abuse everything. But yeah, I think it's very reasonable to force the oil and gas industry to provide some good in communities when they would otherwise do everything they can to reduce service for customers and restrict employment to line their already stuffed pockets. As for jobs being "meant" for young people as opposed to older people.... I think that's hogwash. I think ALL people who work deserve a living wage. Their age is irrelevant. I think someone who pumps gas full time has just as much of a right to be able to support him or herself (or do whatever else they feel like doing with the money) as anyone else does. And I think any adult has every right in the world to decide that they are only cut out to work at a gas station, for whatever reason. The point is, all people who work full time should get paid enough to keep a roof over their heads if that's what they need to do. If they don't need to pay for the roof, then absolutely nobody can dictate what else they might do for the money, including spending it all on their data plan.

but we're not talking about the gas industry here. we are talking about a small business owner. believe me, I worked for people who owned a gas station. they don't make much. the gas industry doesn't get hit by this regulation, the business owner does. if anything, give the business owner a tax break for employing those people and turn around and tax the corporation who owns the gas. but this way is only hurting the small business owner. 

hogwash. um, alright. my point is that if you pay these menial jobs too much, you will have people taking them so they make enough money doing that without having to put in any real effort in life. sure, there are many that this is their only opportunity, as they came from broken homes, single parents, or they are immigrants, or whathaveyou, I don't claim to have all the answers, but I don't believe in solving these problems by throwing money at them. give people other opportunities like lower tuition, an incentive to do something with their life that will benefit society as a whole. 

I agree, it is everyone's right to work whatever job they want to live. My point was, there needs to be a balance on what that is. I'm saying that I don't think it's necessary to be paying these jobs the amounts people are protesting about to get by, as I think society has shifted in what "getting by" actually means. 

correct, I don't give a shit if someone spends all their money on their data plan. My point was, it's not a necessity. many people in this day and age believe it is. that's just one example. 

on one hand, you are saying nobody can dictate what one does with their money, but I believe it is hypocritical to propose that business owners be dictated what they spend their money on. again, I think you're envisioning taking money from rich fat cat CEO's rather than a small business owner.

I don't get the contradiction of telling someone we can tell you what to do with your money (hire more people they don't need) since you have so much of it and then turning around and telling the small business owner you can do what you want with your money, even if that means screwing over your 2 staff that get shitty wages and long hours without OT and no paid breaks, etc. 

HughFreakingDillon

and I do not support, and never will, legal regulation to force companies, rich or otherwise, to provide employment.  you can incentivize them through tax breaks and whatnot, but telling a business you are legally obligated to provide employment that isn't necessary to their model is totally bizarre to me.  

PJ_Soul

Well I think your main premise it totally wrong. I think your are grossly undervaluing menial work.
I also think that, while yeah, it hurts now for the reason I already mentioned, there is no way around it for smaller businesses either. The economy has to correct itself now, to make sure that workers are fairly paid. That is priority #1 as far as I'm concerned. If that means "growing pains" for business owners, so be it. Nobody said fixing so many fuck ups would be easy or painless.
I don't see it as a contradiction as you do, because I don't hold businesses and corporations to the same standards as individual workers. Pretty simple.

HughFreakingDillon

how am I undervaluing menial work? I'm not at all. I did it for years, quite happily, and very low paid. Not underpaid. I got paid what the work was worth. it was hard. Harder than my job now. But it required no special skill. I learned it and was extremely good at it. But there was no education or experience required for the job. That does and should mean something.

And I lived on my own no problem. 

the issue here is what is fair. I'd have to look at inflation trends to know the specifics, but I can't say that $15 an hour plus benefits for working the cash register at Tim's is sensible. Now, that amount will and should vary from region to region, as your standard of living in Vancouver is much higher than it is in Winnipeg. I did notice that your minimum wage is only 20 cents higher than ours, which I find outrageous, given how much it costs to live in Vancouver as compared to Winnipeg. 

how am I holding businesses and corporations to the same standards as individuals? my comment was only comparing big corp vs small business. 

rgambs

Spiritual_Chaos said:

The US is such a weird country. 
Not being able to pump your own gas could be the premise of a Twilight Zone episode. 

Yep.
America, where you can buy an assault rifle at the gas station, but you can't pump your own gas lol

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

The US is such a weird country. 
Not being able to pump your own gas could be the premise of a Twilight Zone episode. 

Yep.
America, where you can buy an assault rifle at the gas station, but you can't pump your own gas lol

excellent point. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

how am I undervaluing menial work? I'm not at all. I did it for years, quite happily, and very low paid. Not underpaid. I got paid what the work was worth. it was hard. Harder than my job now. But it required no special skill. I learned it and was extremely good at it. But there was no education or experience required for the job. That does and should mean something.

And I lived on my own no problem. 

the issue here is what is fair. I'd have to look at inflation trends to know the specifics, but I can't say that $15 an hour plus benefits for working the cash register at Tim's is sensible. Now, that amount will and should vary from region to region, as your standard of living in Vancouver is much higher than it is in Winnipeg. I did notice that your minimum wage is only 20 cents higher than ours, which I find outrageous, given how much it costs to live in Vancouver as compared to Winnipeg. 

how am I holding businesses and corporations to the same standards as individuals? my comment was only comparing big corp vs small business. 

And I was comparing individuals to businesses, and you claimed I was contradicting myself. I was just explaining my perspective in response to your comment towards me.

IMO the current minimum wage in many, many places is necessarily underpayment, because I believe that ALL people who work full time should at least be able to live at a certain basic level (which does include being able to pay for internet btw, along with rent, bills, clothes, food, transportation, medicine, hygienic and other household products, basic furniture, and a little bit for entertainment), and current minimum wage does not do that. So that is why I think you are undervaluing menial work. Of course special skills and education and experience mean something. That's why those with such qualifications get paid more than minimum wage, and the more skilled, educated, or experienced they are, the further away they get from that baseline that minimum wage workers should be earning. THAT is fair. Now, I don't think minimum wage should be the same everywhere. I mean, $15 in Winnipeg is WAY different that $15 in Vancouver. You still can't even pay for a roof over your head on $15/hr in Vancouver, but in Winnipeg and some other places I'm sure that is more than enough. In some places the current minimum wage is already adequate, and in other places it is egregiously low.