Louis CK accused of sexual misconduct

dignin

I'm with PJSoul here. As far as I can tell he has done nothing criminal.

I'm sure in no time he will be accused by the mob of rape and pedophilia, that seems to be the evolution of these things.

PJ_Soul

Jason P said:

As for females posting, I don't know your occupation, but would you just laugh it off if you had a male superior call you into his office at work and he was jus whacking away asking you to stay and watch?

me thinks no way in hell.  

I think someone doing that at the office and someone doing that in a hotel room that you went to for drinks are two completely different and non-comparable scenarios. See, this is what I mean about this issue becoming too black and white.

benjs

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

If Louis CK took it out and starting beating off in front of me I'd just be amused and weirdly fascinated, lol. But yeah, if they don't want to see him do that... then he shouldn't. TBH though, I'm not totally sure how this works. If a guy pulls it out or strips down in front of someone who knows him, are in a social situation, and they're not in public, is that even illegal?? The lady could just tell him he's fucked up and walk out of the room, right? It's a pervy thing to do, and gross (for anyone who doesn't think it's just fucking bizarrely hilarious), but it's not assault or anything. It's just a guy you know or are acquainted with his dick in his hand. I know it's not normal, but I don't really get how this would actually be traumatic either. Not unless he's also threatening, and it doesn't sound like that. I saw a ton of really drunk dudes do this at parties back in the day. I also saw plenty of them strip naked (idiots, lol). I am not sure what their goal was, lol, but nobody there ever saw it as threatening. Just gross/embarrassing/funny. I'd personally rather see that than a dude picking his nose, but hey, maybe I've got a higher than average tolerance threshold for whipped out penises. Perhaps more women than I thought are just much more easily "scandalized" than I am?
Now, this done by a stranger in public is extremely alarming. That has also happened to me, and it scared the hell out of me and I ran away. Although I was with my mother, and she actually started laughing her head off. I actually had to lecture her about it, since the guy could have been really dangerous, and she just stood there laughing.

You’ve been to parties where a guest has jerked himself off to the point of ejaculation, and no one had the common decency to beat the ever loving shit out of him?

Not to the point of ejaculation or anything, no. Really they just waggled them, lol.  I didn't mean that they actually masturbated. Nobody really gave a shit if some drunk idiot wanted to wave his wiener around. Sure, mild repulsion was a common reaction, but big deal. I think the general consensus was that it's their dick, they can do what they want with it, as long as he keeps it away from everyone else. Now sitting there masturbating? Well, that is different of course. But if I was in a guy's hotel room or whatever and he decided to do that, I'd just walk out of the room. End of story.

Oh, well then, that hardly  compares to the trauma that these women have suffered because of some celebrity sociopath.

What trauma are you talking about? You mean other women who have been sexually assaulted? That is different. Honestly, Louis CK stripping down in his hotel room and jerking off, when the woman can just say "fuck you" and leave... that really doesn't sound traumatic to me. Weird, but not traumatic.

Maybe not to you, but these women looked up to him or were underlings at his workplace, and they were paralyzed by his actions. Some laughed it off at the time as a defensive coping mechanism; others went along with it for as long as they had to so that they could keep their jobs.

Some of their careers suffered because they did start telling people and were told to keep quiet by people who pull a lot of strings in their line of work. 

Hmmmmm.
I feel like this issue is becoming too black and white in many different ways now.
At the end of the day I'm glad that everyone is finally making it clear that inappropriate sexual behaviour is not being treated as something people can get away with anymore. That is fantastic. WTF took so long??
However, I think retroactively turning every woman who ever had anything sexually inappropriate happen in front of her into a traumatized victim presents some problems. It fails to take present realities into account for one thing. And context. And currency as far as feelings go. I think this is all a lot more complicated than most are making it out to be, when we're talking about long past events. It's not as black and white as many seem tempted to make it out to be.

Everyone has (and is absolutely entitled to) their own opinions on this, but mine as an idealist is that ideals transcend context. If one is all for equality in an era that dehumanizes black people, for example, I do not believe that that person should be excused if they participate in dehumanizing black people. This is the purpose of ideals: as the world changes, a foundational ideal should remain a relevant yardstick and pursuit.

Edit: In case I wasn't clear enough, the ideals which I feel are broken here are respecting others, and assuring that your actions don't cost someone their dignity.

PJ_Soul

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

If Louis CK took it out and starting beating off in front of me I'd just be amused and weirdly fascinated, lol. But yeah, if they don't want to see him do that... then he shouldn't. TBH though, I'm not totally sure how this works. If a guy pulls it out or strips down in front of someone who knows him, are in a social situation, and they're not in public, is that even illegal?? The lady could just tell him he's fucked up and walk out of the room, right? It's a pervy thing to do, and gross (for anyone who doesn't think it's just fucking bizarrely hilarious), but it's not assault or anything. It's just a guy you know or are acquainted with his dick in his hand. I know it's not normal, but I don't really get how this would actually be traumatic either. Not unless he's also threatening, and it doesn't sound like that. I saw a ton of really drunk dudes do this at parties back in the day. I also saw plenty of them strip naked (idiots, lol). I am not sure what their goal was, lol, but nobody there ever saw it as threatening. Just gross/embarrassing/funny. I'd personally rather see that than a dude picking his nose, but hey, maybe I've got a higher than average tolerance threshold for whipped out penises. Perhaps more women than I thought are just much more easily "scandalized" than I am?
Now, this done by a stranger in public is extremely alarming. That has also happened to me, and it scared the hell out of me and I ran away. Although I was with my mother, and she actually started laughing her head off. I actually had to lecture her about it, since the guy could have been really dangerous, and she just stood there laughing.

You’ve been to parties where a guest has jerked himself off to the point of ejaculation, and no one had the common decency to beat the ever loving shit out of him?

Not to the point of ejaculation or anything, no. Really they just waggled them, lol.  I didn't mean that they actually masturbated. Nobody really gave a shit if some drunk idiot wanted to wave his wiener around. Sure, mild repulsion was a common reaction, but big deal. I think the general consensus was that it's their dick, they can do what they want with it, as long as he keeps it away from everyone else. Now sitting there masturbating? Well, that is different of course. But if I was in a guy's hotel room or whatever and he decided to do that, I'd just walk out of the room. End of story.

Oh, well then, that hardly  compares to the trauma that these women have suffered because of some celebrity sociopath.

What trauma are you talking about? You mean other women who have been sexually assaulted? That is different. Honestly, Louis CK stripping down in his hotel room and jerking off, when the woman can just say "fuck you" and leave... that really doesn't sound traumatic to me. Weird, but not traumatic.

Maybe not to you, but these women looked up to him or were underlings at his workplace, and they were paralyzed by his actions. Some laughed it off at the time as a defensive coping mechanism; others went along with it for as long as they had to so that they could keep their jobs.

Some of their careers suffered because they did start telling people and were told to keep quiet by people who pull a lot of strings in their line of work. 

Hmmmmm.
I feel like this issue is becoming too black and white in many different ways now.
At the end of the day I'm glad that everyone is finally making it clear that inappropriate sexual behaviour is not something people can get away with anymore. However, I think retroactively turning every woman who ever had anything sexually inappropriate happen in front of her into a traumatized victim presents some problems. It fails to take present realities into account for one thing. And context. And currency as far as feelings go. I think this is all a lot more complicated than most are making it out to be, when we're talking about long past events. It's not as black and white as many seem tempted to make it out to be.

The grayness is what causes the perpetrators to get away with it for so long.

To your point, it did not sound like all five women who went on the record were traumatized. And one even got the hell away from him. Different people, different reactions. 

Unanimously, though, I think that all accounts feel that he willfully crossed a line with no concern for them whatsoever—that is, other than as sexual objects. And that will likely always leave a bit of a stain. 

Well the grayness is life. Grayness is also what keeps people who don't deserve to have their lives ruined from having their lives ruined.

I agree Louis crossed a line, and I agree it's gross, inappropriate behaviour. That said... fucking weird shit happens. People do weird icky shit sometimes. I also don't think that everyone should be running for their pitchforks every time they hear about how someone acted like a weirdo pig at some point in the past. Apart from his bad behaviour or anyone else's ... I'm also starting to sense a little something sinister in this groundswell that we're seeing lately. Something ineffable...

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

As for females posting, I don't know your occupation, but would you just laugh it off if you had a male superior call you into his office at work and he was jus whacking away asking you to stay and watch?

me thinks no way in hell.  

I think someone doing that at the office and someone doing that in a hotel room that you went to for drinks are two completely different and non-comparable scenarios. See, this is what I mean about this issue becoming too black and white.

one of the incidents was while he and the victim were on set. courtney cox and david arquette corroborated the account. so yeah, it was at the work place. 

dignin

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

As for females posting, I don't know your occupation, but would you just laugh it off if you had a male superior call you into his office at work and he was jus whacking away asking you to stay and watch?

me thinks no way in hell.  

I think someone doing that at the office and someone doing that in a hotel room that you went to for drinks are two completely different and non-comparable scenarios. See, this is what I mean about this issue becoming too black and white.

one of the incidents was while he and the victim were on set. courtney cox and david arquette corroborated the account. so yeah, it was at the work place. 

That situation he asked if he could, she said no, and he didn't do it.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

This is actually old news. I read about this at least 2 months ago, and saw some video segment on it as well. Only thing that's changed is that all of a sudden everyone has decided to (pretend they) give a shit. If this suddenly affects his career now, long after this information was out... I dunno. Something seems wrong here (I say that in a way that has nothing to do with defending Louis's supposed habit of taking it out).

time passed means nothing. all of this hollywood creepo stuff is just empowering women/men to come forward and raise their voices. they didn't feel they could until now. according to a buddy, the person who everyone thought was talking about louis, came out and said she wasn't actually talking about him, but someone else. 

i'm not sure why everyone keeps saying this is old news, like that makes a difference. not sure why you think people are pretending to give a shit. i couldn't give a shit if i didn't previously hear about it. and there's not much anyone can do until victims come forward. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

If Louis CK took it out and starting beating off in front of me I'd just be amused and weirdly fascinated, lol. But yeah, if they don't want to see him do that... then he shouldn't. TBH though, I'm not totally sure how this works. If a guy pulls it out or strips down in front of someone who knows him, are in a social situation, and they're not in public, is that even illegal?? The lady could just tell him he's fucked up and walk out of the room, right? It's a pervy thing to do, and gross (for anyone who doesn't think it's just fucking bizarrely hilarious), but it's not assault or anything. It's just a guy you know or are acquainted with his dick in his hand. I know it's not normal, but I don't really get how this would actually be traumatic either. Not unless he's also threatening, and it doesn't sound like that. I saw a ton of really drunk dudes do this at parties back in the day. I also saw plenty of them strip naked (idiots, lol). I am not sure what their goal was, lol, but nobody there ever saw it as threatening. Just gross/embarrassing/funny. I'd personally rather see that than a dude picking his nose, but hey, maybe I've got a higher than average tolerance threshold for whipped out penises. Perhaps more women than I thought are just much more easily "scandalized" than I am?
Now, this done by a stranger in public is extremely alarming. That has also happened to me, and it scared the hell out of me and I ran away. Although I was with my mother, and she actually started laughing her head off. I actually had to lecture her about it, since the guy could have been really dangerous, and she just stood there laughing.

the difference is with the meatheads at those parties and louis is that the apparent intent is sexual in nature. one is indecent exposure, the other is lewd behaviour and maybe sexual misconduct or something?

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

As for females posting, I don't know your occupation, but would you just laugh it off if you had a male superior call you into his office at work and he was jus whacking away asking you to stay and watch?

me thinks no way in hell.  

I think someone doing that at the office and someone doing that in a hotel room that you went to for drinks are two completely different and non-comparable scenarios. See, this is what I mean about this issue becoming too black and white.

one of the incidents was while he and the victim were on set. courtney cox and david arquette corroborated the account. so yeah, it was at the work place. 

Yeah, in a changing room or something? Well... still not the same as an office honestly, just because of the significant culture differences between sets and offices, but yeah, that's definitely worse and weirder and even more inappropriate. Now, would I just laugh it off if I was working on a set with Louis CK and he pulled it out and started wanking at me? .... Probably. I'd also run and tell everyone I knew about it after. In any case, I am not suggesting that anyone should just laugh it off. Anyone can have any reaction they naturally have. I am not trying to say how women should react, I'm talking about how everyone else is reacting to the stories after the fact.

Anyway, I hope that this "thing" that's happening leads to people saying something when it happens instead of waiting for however many years. Really my issue is with how people are reacting in relation to the fact that these are long ago events (not just with Louis CK). I think, like it or not, that poses some rather complicated problems (and to suggest it doesn't brings me right back to the black and white thing again). Current accusations are definitely more cut and dry to me.

tbergs

I think we've allowed context to play too much of a part in determining if what happened was criminal. The only difference is which situations will realistically result in charges if prosecution was attempted. If I'm at a college keg party and some perv drunk takes out his cock to wank in front of people, very unlikely that ever gets regarded as a crime just because of the culture that is associated with college parties. Outside of that, I don't think there would ever be a case that I couldn't see turning in to something more if pressed. It's a violation upon anyone who was unwillingly exposed to the act and behavior.

Maybe some of you have watched too much porn and it's permeated your sense of sexual acceptability. Are you truly considering how this situation plays out? A male you have no sexual interest in or relationship with, strips naked and begins stroking himself without your approval. You observe him staring at you while he performs the act, most likely making some sort of sexual noises (whether from his body or mouth) while the sweat beads up and he gets fully aroused. You're going to laugh at that? I guess good for you, but understand that a lot of women, and men, are not going to and will be traumatized because that image will remain with them as well as the sounds, smells and every other sensory memory (and it's those that stick with you most).

I am guessing those that don't find this traumatizing have never worked with victims of sexual misconduct or behavior. I believe PJ Soul works at a college of some type so I am surprised by the response because this type of behavior ties in very closely to VAWA and the Title IX provisions that we're pushed for under Obama. I know, Canada maybe isn't as restrictive on this stuff, but there has been a cultural shift going on for the past 7 years that has focused a lot on changing and correcting behavior like this.

People like this aren't normal and shouldn't be given a pass at any point! It doesn't matter when it happened. The fact that people just laughed at them and walked away just reinforced with them that it wasn't a big deal and that's what's fucked up.

Jason P

I wonder what the responses in this thread would be if "Paul Ryan accused of sexual misconduct" and the accusations were the exact same as Louis are accused of?  

LOL?

JimmyV

Jason P said:

I wonder what the responses in this thread would be if "Paul Ryan accused of sexual misconduct" and the accusations were the exact same as Louis are accused of?  

LOL?

It's a fair point. On the other hand, I do look differently at people who are allegedly running our country than I do figures in Hollywood. It doesn't mean I condone what Louis CK did, but it does mean I'm more concerned by the Roy Moore allegations today.

F Me In The Brain

Something is either right, or it is wrong.  

Clearly what he did was wrong.  It was not the worst thing that a person has done, but it was an abuse of power in some cases if what is reported is true.  At best, it is disgusting and he is a piece of shit.  Perhaps a sick piece of shit, but a piece of shit nonetheless.


It is Wrong.  People can of course disagree, but I can (and do) find their justifications puzzling.

Jason P

JimmyV said:

Jason P said:

I wonder what the responses in this thread would be if "Paul Ryan accused of sexual misconduct" and the accusations were the exact same as Louis are accused of?  

LOL?

It's a fair point. On the other hand, I do look differently at people who are allegedly running our country than I do figures in Hollywood. It doesn't mean I condone what Louis CK did, but it does mean I'm more concerned by the Roy Moore allegations today.

It does bring an interesting point of how we as humans judge those who entertain us.  Chris Brown is a confirmed woman beater ... but man can he dance!  And there are an army of Brown supporters that will defend him and go after detractors with vengeance. 

 Old school Hollywood 



https://youtube.com/watch?v=B2sFdkGCjhE

my2hands

You guys never choked the chicken at the Thanksgiving table after a few glasses of red? 

Fucking losers lol

Jason P

tbergs

Maybe Louis was just hoping to get some pizza?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/serial-masturbators-cook-county-custody-rewarded-pizza-30/story?id=51024509

Dart attempted to solve the problem by requiring detainees to wear "special jumpsuits" to help prevent them from reaching their penises in early 2017, but the practice was discontinued after a group of detainees burned the jumpsuits using a microwave, according to the lawsuit.

Dart then instituted a program that rewarded "serial masturbators" with pizza if they went 30 days without a sexual assault or masturbating incident, according to the lawsuit.

Since detainees who had never exposed themselves were not eligible to receive pizza as a reward, the program had a reverse effect, leading to an "increase in exposure incidents" since the detainees without prior incidents "were now incentivized to commit indecent exposure and masturbation in order to qualify for a pizza reward," court documents state.

tbergs

Maybe the CK was always just short for CocK...

PB11041

tbergs said:

Maybe Louis was just hoping to get some pizza?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/serial-masturbators-cook-county-custody-rewarded-pizza-30/story?id=51024509

Dart attempted to solve the problem by requiring detainees to wear "special jumpsuits" to help prevent them from reaching their penises in early 2017, but the practice was discontinued after a group of detainees burned the jumpsuits using a microwave, according to the lawsuit.

Dart then instituted a program that rewarded "serial masturbators" with pizza if they went 30 days without a sexual assault or masturbating incident, according to the lawsuit.

Since detainees who had never exposed themselves were not eligible to receive pizza as a reward, the program had a reverse effect, leading to an "increase in exposure incidents" since the detainees without prior incidents "were now incentivized to commit indecent exposure and masturbation in order to qualify for a pizza reward," court documents state.

There are so many things about this story that make you want to think it is a hoax or that extermination of our species may not be all that bad. Start over.

Wma31394

my2hands said:

You guys never choked the chicken at the Thanksgiving table after a few glasses of red? 

Fucking losers lol

Pretty sure you meant "waxing your dolphin"...