Opioid Addiction in the US, Heroin and Oxys
Comments
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Cropduster-80 said:
That’s a slippery slope.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
The amount of pills prescribed is unbelievable...mickeyrat said:20 MILLION PILLS PER YEAR FOR COUNTY POPULATION OF 200K.
and the pharmacies dispensed them......
a pharmacist shouldn’t not fill a lawful prescription period. They aren’t doctors they are chemists
this goes back to birth control, morning after pills etc too. It shouldn’t be their business.
scroll up. 80 million pills in a 4 year period in one county of 207k people. surely someone in the corporate chain, down to the dispensing pharmacist, should have flagged something, no?
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Fwiw fentanyl in a controlled environment in a hospital is not the same as what's on the street. My wife was given it as an epidural when giving birth. Best of luck to you.hedonist said:I’m starting fentanyl next week again. I have trepidations but now I get it. Chronic, intense pain can be debilitating mentally (eventually physically too). At least the last time
went well.
They are, in fact, doctors.Cropduster-80 said:
That’s a slippery slope.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
The amount of pills prescribed is unbelievable...mickeyrat said:20 MILLION PILLS PER YEAR FOR COUNTY POPULATION OF 200K.
and the pharmacies dispensed them......
a pharmacist shouldn’t not fill a lawful prescription period. They aren’t doctors they are chemists0 -
So is a school principal. A doctor of educationJearlpam0925 said:
Fwiw fentanyl in a controlled environment in a hospital is not the same as what's on the street. My wife was given it as an epidural when giving birth. Best of luck to you.hedonist said:I’m starting fentanyl next week again. I have trepidations but now I get it. Chronic, intense pain can be debilitating mentally (eventually physically too). At least the last time
went well.
They are, in fact, doctors.Cropduster-80 said:
That’s a slippery slope.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
The amount of pills prescribed is unbelievable...mickeyrat said:20 MILLION PILLS PER YEAR FOR COUNTY POPULATION OF 200K.
and the pharmacies dispensed them......
a pharmacist shouldn’t not fill a lawful prescription period. They aren’t doctors they are chemists
not a medical doctor
in any case they aren’t diagnosing or treating the person who walks up with a prescription. Allowing them to circumvent someone who has done so and who is unquestionably more qualified is a bad practice.That is a problem with how meds are tracked and doctors are regulated I suppose. Shouldn’t have anything to do with a pharmacist
i also don’t think nurse practitioners should be writing prescriptions generally either. Certainly not controlled substancesPost edited by Cropduster-80 on0 -
Thank you! That’s what I’ve heard as well and definitely eases my anxiety about it.Jearlpam0925 said:
Fwiw fentanyl in a controlled environment in a hospital is not the same as what's on the street. My wife was given it as an epidural when giving birth. Best of luck to you.hedonist said:I’m starting fentanyl next week again. I have trepidations but now I get it. Chronic, intense pain can be debilitating mentally (eventually physically too). At least the last time
went well.
They are, in fact, doctors.Cropduster-80 said:
That’s a slippery slope.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
The amount of pills prescribed is unbelievable...mickeyrat said:20 MILLION PILLS PER YEAR FOR COUNTY POPULATION OF 200K.
and the pharmacies dispensed them......
a pharmacist shouldn’t not fill a lawful prescription period. They aren’t doctors they are chemists0 -
A lot of the time they do walk away with MDs as well. And regardless, the point is they're not just mixing potions - they know what dosages are excessive, what they're used for, etc etc. It is also why pharmacists were a positive in identifying pill mills. They could see where the abuses were/are, and the sources of said abuse (not to absolve pharmacists in specific cases).Cropduster-80 said:
So is a school principal. A doctor of educationJearlpam0925 said:
Fwiw fentanyl in a controlled environment in a hospital is not the same as what's on the street. My wife was given it as an epidural when giving birth. Best of luck to you.hedonist said:I’m starting fentanyl next week again. I have trepidations but now I get it. Chronic, intense pain can be debilitating mentally (eventually physically too). At least the last time
went well.
They are, in fact, doctors.Cropduster-80 said:
That’s a slippery slope.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
The amount of pills prescribed is unbelievable...mickeyrat said:20 MILLION PILLS PER YEAR FOR COUNTY POPULATION OF 200K.
and the pharmacies dispensed them......
a pharmacist shouldn’t not fill a lawful prescription period. They aren’t doctors they are chemists
not a medical doctor
in any case they aren’t diagnosing or treating the person who walks up with a prescription. Allowing them to circumvent someone who has done so and who is unquestionably more qualified is a bad practice.That is a problem with how meds are tracked and doctors are regulated I suppose. Shouldn’t have anything to do with a pharmacist
i also don’t think nurse practitioners should be writing prescriptions generally either. Certainly not controlled substances0 -
If they are MD’s great. They still aren’t treating person who walks up. That requires things like exams.Jearlpam0925 said:
A lot of the time they do walk away with MDs as well. And regardless, the point is they're not just mixing potions - they know what dosages are excessive, what they're used for, etc etc. It is also why pharmacists were a positive in identifying pill mills. They could see where the abuses were/are, and the sources of said abuse (not to absolve pharmacists in specific cases).Cropduster-80 said:
So is a school principal. A doctor of educationJearlpam0925 said:
Fwiw fentanyl in a controlled environment in a hospital is not the same as what's on the street. My wife was given it as an epidural when giving birth. Best of luck to you.hedonist said:I’m starting fentanyl next week again. I have trepidations but now I get it. Chronic, intense pain can be debilitating mentally (eventually physically too). At least the last time
went well.
They are, in fact, doctors.Cropduster-80 said:
That’s a slippery slope.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
The amount of pills prescribed is unbelievable...mickeyrat said:20 MILLION PILLS PER YEAR FOR COUNTY POPULATION OF 200K.
and the pharmacies dispensed them......
a pharmacist shouldn’t not fill a lawful prescription period. They aren’t doctors they are chemists
not a medical doctor
in any case they aren’t diagnosing or treating the person who walks up with a prescription. Allowing them to circumvent someone who has done so and who is unquestionably more qualified is a bad practice.That is a problem with how meds are tracked and doctors are regulated I suppose. Shouldn’t have anything to do with a pharmacist
i also don’t think nurse practitioners should be writing prescriptions generally either. Certainly not controlled substances
generally a pharmacist is less school than both a nurse practitioner and a MD.
im really not trying to dismiss the importance of the profession I just want them in their lane. My mom isn’t particularly well and she goes round and around with one of the local pharmacists. So much so that she drives across town to get her meds now.I don’t know the whole story just that the pharmacist knows better than the doctor and it’s almost a confrontation when she needs medicine. My mom has addressed it with her doctor and then the doctor explains why he is right. No idea how common that is or not.Then you have pharmacists refusing to fill drugs in other cases for religious reasons.
I just want to know who decides if I get my medicine if I need it. Is it my doctor or my pharmacist. It gets really murky.Should a pharmacist have veto power?
my perception is there is a power struggle sometimes and the patient is in the middle. There has to be a hierarchy otherwise it’s unclear or chaotic when who’s in charge is questionedPost edited by Cropduster-80 on0 -
You're right - not to belabor the issue, but becoming a pharmacists can take ~6-8 years.
I mean I have to think pharmacists refusing drugs for religious reasons is some kind of violation of the hippocratic oath. Only argument I can see in support is if this person runs their own business or is at a corp where they can then be replaced.
And I mean not to be disrespectful, but personal anecdotes shouldn't be the explanation of whether a pharmacist does or does not have some extent of say in what they're doling out. It's unfortunate, but it's not for no reason that Sudafed is now locked up on shelves.
If anything to me it speaks to how healthcare is extremely complex when you're talking treatments, finances, payments, supply chain, etc etc, everything.
I would also say a pharmacist's "lane" should be more than some rote position of 1) receive script 2) fill script 3) repeat.0 -
My only point no matter if it’s opioids or any drug requiring a prescription doctors and pharmacists don’t always agree.
that’s a fact. Anecdotes aside, it happens for any number of reasons.
Someone’s authority has to be the final word in the event of a disagreement. Because the pharmacist is in possession of the drugs they seem to get to decide based on being in possession not qualifications . I don’t agree with that. No matter if it’s real world or hypothetically
a suggestion a pharmacist shouldn’t fill a script for oxy is alarming to me. That also doesn’t mean I don’t think something needs to be done to prevent them from even being in that position to begin withPost edited by Cropduster-80 on0 -
I'm finally watching Dope sick. I'm not surprised. Unfortunately they won't want help until they hit rock bottom and no one on the show seems to be there yet.0
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Depends on your age. No one under 35 didn't know how addictive oxy's or heroin was when they took them. I feel bad for the people who were prescribed them for legitimate reasons a couple decades ago and got addicted. They weren't bombarded with how addictive and destructive they are like we are now.
It's like people who smoke, get addicted and contract cancer. If your under the age of 50, there isn't any excuse for not knowing. I do feel bad for people over the age of 60 or so. They didn't have the same amount of information or warnings.
I do feel compassion for anyone dealing with any sort of serious addictions.Post edited by smile6680 on0 -
CVS, Walgreens announce opioid settlements totaling $10BBy GEOFF MULVIHILLToday
The two largest U.S. pharmacy chains, CVS Health and Walgreen Co., announced agreements in principle Wednesday to pay about $5 billion each to settle lawsuits nationwide over the toll of opioids, and a lawyer said Walmart, a third pharmacy behemoth, is in discussions for a deal.
The prospective settlements are part of a shift in the legal landscape surrounding the opioid epidemic. Instead of suspense over whether companies in the drug industry would be held to account through trials or settlements, the big question is now how their money will be used and whether it will make a difference in fighting a crisis that has only intensified.
The deals, if completed, would end thousands of lawsuits in which governments claimed pharmacies filled prescriptions they should have flagged as inappropriate. With settlements already proposed or finalized between some of the biggest drugmakers and distribution companies, the recent developments could be the among the last multibillion-dollar settlements to be announced.
They also would bring the total value of all settlements to more than $50 billion, with most of it required to be used by state and local governments to combat opioids, which have been linked to more than 500,000 deaths in the U.S. over the last two decades.
“It's one more culprit of the overdose crisis that is having to pay their dues," said Courtney Gary-Allen, organizing director of the Maine Recovery Advocacy Project. "Average Americans have been paying it for a long time."
Gary-Allen, who is a member of a council that will help determine how Maine uses its opioid settlement funds, said more money to address the problem will help. In her state, she said, the needs include more beds for medical detox and for treatment.
Neither Woonsocket, Rhode Island-based CVS nor Deerfield, Illinois-based Walgreens is admitting wrongdoing.
The plans spring from mediation involving a group of state attorneys general. Before they move ahead, state and then local governments would need to sign on. So far, the detailed, formal deals have not been presented to the government entities so they can decide whether to join.
Under the tentative plans, CVS would pay $4.9 billion to local governments and about $130 million to Native American tribes over a decade. Walgreens would pay $4.8 billion to governments and $155 million to tribes over 15 years. The exact amount depends on how many governments join the deals.
Both noted they have been addressing the crisis through such measures as starting educational programs and installing safe disposal units for drugs in stores and police departments. And both said the settlements would allow them to help while staying focused on their business.
“We are pleased to resolve these longstanding claims and putting them behind us is in the best interest of all parties, as well as our customers, colleagues and shareholders,” Thomas Moriarty, CVS chief policy officer and general counsel, said in a statement.
Walgreens said in a statement: “As one of the largest pharmacy chains in the nation, we remain committed to being a part of the solution, and this settlement framework will allow us to keep our focus on the health and wellbeing of our customers and patients, while making positive contributions to address the opioid crisis,” Walgreens said in a statement.
Paul Geller, a lawyer for governments in the lawsuits, said talks with Walmart continue. Walmart representatives would not comment Wednesday.
“These agreements will be the first resolutions reached with pharmacy chains and will equip communities across the country with the much-needed tools to fight back against this epidemic and bring about tangible, positive change,” lawyers for local governments said in a statement. “In addition to payments totaling billions of dollars, these companies have committed to making significant improvements to their dispensing practices to help reduce addiction moving forward.”
If these settlements are completed, they would leave mostly smaller drug industry players as defendants in lawsuits. Just this week, a group of mostly regional pharmacy chains sent to a judge, who is overseeing federal litigation, information about claims they face, a possible precursor to scheduling trials or mediating settlements involving some of those firms.
“One by one, we are holding every player in the addiction industry accountable for the millions of lives lost or devastated by the opioid epidemic,” Connecticut Attorney General William Tong said in a statement. “The companies that helped to create and fuel this crisis must commit to changing their businesses practices, and to providing the resources needed for treatment, prevention and recovery.”
Most of the nation's opioid overdose deaths initially involved prescription drugs. As governments, doctors and companies took steps to make them harder to abuse and obtain, people addicted to them increasingly switched to heroin, which proved more deadly.
In recent years, opioid deaths have soared to record levels around 80,000 a year. Most of those deaths involve illicitly produced version of the powerful lab-made drug fentanyl, which is appearing throughout the U.S. supply of illegal drugs.
Only a handful of opioid settlements have had bigger dollar figures than the CVS plan. Distributors AmerisourceBergen, Cardinal Health and McKesson this year finalized a combined settlement worth $21 billion, and drugmaker Johnson & Johnson finalized a $5 billion deal.
Purdue Pharma, the maker of OxyContin, and members of the Sackler family who own the company have a proposed settlement that would involve up to $6 billion in cash, plus the value of the company, which would be turned into a new entity with its profits used to combat the epidemic. That plan has been put on hold by a court.
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Associated Press writer Tom Murphy in Indianapolis contributed to this report.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
How much money are these companies making off of pills? Holee chit!0
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tempo_n_groove said:How much money are these companies making off of pills? Holee chit!
pays out over 10 years.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I was watching a recent network TV interview with Matthew Perry (of "Friends" fame). And he's struggled with addiction his whole life. It essentially started the first time he drank underaged. Somehow, his friends did it for fun from time to time and he just did it all the time. He was essentially born to be an alcoholic. He got into pills after they were subscribed for some kind of pain. I don't even think this was his goal, but it really conveyed how becoming chemically dependent can sneak up on a person and it kind of dulls the "well they made a choice to first use it." Sure, that first drink was his decision, but how many people have never taken a drink?smile6680 said:Depends on your age. No one under 35 didn't know how addictive oxy's or heroin was when they took them. I feel bad for the people who were prescribed them for legitimate reasons a couple decades ago and got addicted. They weren't bombarded with how addictive and destructive they are like we are now.
It's like people who smoke, get addicted and contract cancer. If your under the age of 50, there isn't any excuse for not knowing. I do feel bad for people over the age of 60 or so. They didn't have the same amount of information or warnings.
I do feel compassion for anyone dealing with any sort of serious addictions.
I get it; I've never used anything worse than alcohol...not even weed. And when I first drank (summer after junior year of high school) I made a conscious decision that I wasn't going to mess with anything else. Fear of addiction is a big part of that (and why I never became a tobacco user, too). You can suggest that others made those choices, but it's not necessarily that black and white. For example, I was scared of addiction but I drank and chose not to use marijuana? That's how ignorant I was. I really believe that it's pure luck that all my college drinking never brought me down the road to using booze to numb pain or overcome some sort of anxiety (and I do have OCD, an anxiety disorder). Really, the difference between Perry and me is luck. Now, yeah, it's a terrible idea to use heroin or other hard drugs but there's a little bit of gray there. My uncle has said "I thank god every day I never liked cocaine." He smoked a lot of weed and apparently tried coke twice. Is he any better than someone that ended up with a cocaine problem? Or just luckier?
Bad idea to ever get into hard drugs, but there are then a lot of people to judge.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
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still. 500mill each per company for 10 years. They each pay 2.5Bil...mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:How much money are these companies making off of pills? Holee chit!
pays out over 10 years.
And they are still companies. They aren't bankrupt.
Ho lee chit0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
still. 500mill each per company for 10 years. They each pay 2.5Bil...mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:How much money are these companies making off of pills? Holee chit!
pays out over 10 years.
And they are still companies. They aren't bankrupt.
Ho lee chit
no. they each pay 5 billion
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
US agency softens opioid prescribing guidelines for doctorsBy MIKE STOBBEToday
NEW YORK (AP) — The nation’s top public health agency on Thursday softened its guidelines for U.S. doctors prescribing oxycodone and other opioid painkillers.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention new recommendations are an update to 2016 guidelines that added momentum to a decline in opioid painkiller prescriptions.
Opioids painkillers can be addictive — even when used under doctors’ orders — and were identified as a big reason for a rise in U.S. drug overdoses that began more than two decades ago. Other drugs have overtaken them in overdose statistics, and illicit fentanyl is now the biggest driver of deaths.
The previous guidance succeeded in reducing inappropriate and dangerous prescribing, some experts say. But they also were seen as a barrier to care, with some pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions as doctors wrote them.
The new guidelines are designed to ensure that patients get compassionate and safe pain care, CDC officials said.
A draft released in February received 5,500 public comments. Some modifications were made, but several main changes stayed in place, including:
—The CDC no longer suggests trying to limit opioid treatment for acute pain to three days.
—The agency is dropping the specific recommendation that doctors avoid increasing dosage to a level equivalent to 90 milligrams of morphine per day.
—For patients receiving higher doses of opioids, the CDC is urging doctors to not abruptly halt treatment unless there are indications of a life-threatening danger. The agency offers suggestions on tapering patients off the drugs.
___
The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I read it wrong. That is even worse. They can BOTH pay a billion a year and not even a whimper. Wow.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
still. 500mill each per company for 10 years. They each pay 2.5Bil...mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:How much money are these companies making off of pills? Holee chit!
pays out over 10 years.
And they are still companies. They aren't bankrupt.
Ho lee chit
no. they each pay 5 billion0 -
So when doctors follow CDC guidelines and shit blows up again the doctors can't get sued now?mickeyrat said:US agency softens opioid prescribing guidelines for doctorsBy MIKE STOBBETodayNEW YORK (AP) — The nation’s top public health agency on Thursday softened its guidelines for U.S. doctors prescribing oxycodone and other opioid painkillers.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention new recommendations are an update to 2016 guidelines that added momentum to a decline in opioid painkiller prescriptions.
Opioids painkillers can be addictive — even when used under doctors’ orders — and were identified as a big reason for a rise in U.S. drug overdoses that began more than two decades ago. Other drugs have overtaken them in overdose statistics, and illicit fentanyl is now the biggest driver of deaths.
The previous guidance succeeded in reducing inappropriate and dangerous prescribing, some experts say. But they also were seen as a barrier to care, with some pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions as doctors wrote them.
The new guidelines are designed to ensure that patients get compassionate and safe pain care, CDC officials said.
A draft released in February received 5,500 public comments. Some modifications were made, but several main changes stayed in place, including:
—The CDC no longer suggests trying to limit opioid treatment for acute pain to three days.
—The agency is dropping the specific recommendation that doctors avoid increasing dosage to a level equivalent to 90 milligrams of morphine per day.
—For patients receiving higher doses of opioids, the CDC is urging doctors to not abruptly halt treatment unless there are indications of a life-threatening danger. The agency offers suggestions on tapering patients off the drugs.
___
The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
So when doctors follow CDC guidelines and shit blows up again the doctors can't get sued now?mickeyrat said:US agency softens opioid prescribing guidelines for doctorsBy MIKE STOBBETodayNEW YORK (AP) — The nation’s top public health agency on Thursday softened its guidelines for U.S. doctors prescribing oxycodone and other opioid painkillers.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention new recommendations are an update to 2016 guidelines that added momentum to a decline in opioid painkiller prescriptions.
Opioids painkillers can be addictive — even when used under doctors’ orders — and were identified as a big reason for a rise in U.S. drug overdoses that began more than two decades ago. Other drugs have overtaken them in overdose statistics, and illicit fentanyl is now the biggest driver of deaths.
The previous guidance succeeded in reducing inappropriate and dangerous prescribing, some experts say. But they also were seen as a barrier to care, with some pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions as doctors wrote them.
The new guidelines are designed to ensure that patients get compassionate and safe pain care, CDC officials said.
A draft released in February received 5,500 public comments. Some modifications were made, but several main changes stayed in place, including:
—The CDC no longer suggests trying to limit opioid treatment for acute pain to three days.
—The agency is dropping the specific recommendation that doctors avoid increasing dosage to a level equivalent to 90 milligrams of morphine per day.
—For patients receiving higher doses of opioids, the CDC is urging doctors to not abruptly halt treatment unless there are indications of a life-threatening danger. The agency offers suggestions on tapering patients off the drugs.
___
The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
well here in ohio theres a process where a separate doctor reviews cases and records and I think interviews patients to gauge thereputic use and avoid abuse.the clapdown fucked those in true need. pain the drug was initially designed to treat.Post edited by mickeyrat on_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140
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