The Confederacy - Erasing History

Bentleyspop · August 2017

JC29856 said:

Gtilley8 said:

JC29856 said:

mcgruff10 said:

jeffbr said:

Why would cities put up statues of losing, treasonous, traitors anyway? I'm not from the South, and have no family in the South, so the concept is completely foreign to me. A hostile group took up arms against my country and got their asses kicked, and yet they still are allowed to memorialize their heroes in public places? Stick them in a private museum where others can go see them if they'd like, but honor them in town squares and city centers? Nope. I'm content to have them relegated to history books and Hollywood movies.

I'm telling you, it's the only time in history that the losers were able to put up statues and fly their battle flag lol. I seriously can't think of another example.
When I lived in spain I don't recall seeing any statues of the moors.

How about this one??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Soldiers

That is absolutely asinine.

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war

"We"?
"We lost the war"?
Says a lot about you right there

tempo_n_groove · August 2017

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.

So you're telling me it's different than a statue of Lenin in Seattle?

The statue in Charlottesville was erected in 1924 so this chart isn't technically representative of it.(Sic)

You are talking through a straw man...

Bentleyspop · August 2017

Here's someone who thinks the war is ongoing.....

Man in Confederate uniform confronted by Charlottesville residents

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/us/charlottesville-lee-park-confrontation/index.html

(Wasn't sure if the article belonged on this thread or the Idiot Thread)

JC29856 · August 2017

Bentleyspop said:

Here's someone who thinks the war is ongoing.....

Man in Confederate uniform confronted by Charlottesville residents
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/us/charlottesville-lee-park-confrontation/index.html

(Wasn't sure if the article belonged on this thread or the Idiot Thread)

no doubt who that guy voted for!

mcgruff10 · August 2017

JC29856 said:

mcgruff10 said:

jeffbr said:

Why would cities put up statues of losing, treasonous, traitors anyway? I'm not from the South, and have no family in the South, so the concept is completely foreign to me. A hostile group took up arms against my country and got their asses kicked, and yet they still are allowed to memorialize their heroes in public places? Stick them in a private museum where others can go see them if they'd like, but honor them in town squares and city centers? Nope. I'm content to have them relegated to history books and Hollywood movies.

I'm telling you, it's the only time in history that the losers were able to put up statues and fly their battle flag lol. I seriously can't think of another example.
When I lived in spain I don't recall seeing any statues of the moors.

How about this one??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Soldiers

I meant within the country lol. It s not like this is in Vietnam.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2017

mcgruff10 said:

JC29856 said:

mcgruff10 said:

jeffbr said:

Why would cities put up statues of losing, treasonous, traitors anyway? I'm not from the South, and have no family in the South, so the concept is completely foreign to me. A hostile group took up arms against my country and got their asses kicked, and yet they still are allowed to memorialize their heroes in public places? Stick them in a private museum where others can go see them if they'd like, but honor them in town squares and city centers? Nope. I'm content to have them relegated to history books and Hollywood movies.

I'm telling you, it's the only time in history that the losers were able to put up statues and fly their battle flag lol. I seriously can't think of another example.
When I lived in spain I don't recall seeing any statues of the moors.

How about this one??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Soldiers

I meant within the country lol. It s not like this is in Vietnam.

JC's stretching so far you'd expect a few pulled muscles.

JC29856 · August 2017

mcgruff10 said:

JC29856 said:

mcgruff10 said:

jeffbr said:

Why would cities put up statues of losing, treasonous, traitors anyway? I'm not from the South, and have no family in the South, so the concept is completely foreign to me. A hostile group took up arms against my country and got their asses kicked, and yet they still are allowed to memorialize their heroes in public places? Stick them in a private museum where others can go see them if they'd like, but honor them in town squares and city centers? Nope. I'm content to have them relegated to history books and Hollywood movies.

I'm telling you, it's the only time in history that the losers were able to put up statues and fly their battle flag lol. I seriously can't think of another example.
When I lived in spain I don't recall seeing any statues of the moors.

How about this one??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Soldiers

I meant within the country lol. It s not like this is in Vietnam.

you meant wars within the country? well no wonder you couldn't think of any more!

Go Beavers · August 2017

tempo_n_groove said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.

So you're telling me it's different than a statue of Lenin in Seattle?

The statue in Charlottesville was erected in 1924 so this chart isn't technically representative of it.(Sic)

You are talking through a straw man...

I'm responding directly to your flawed point. Claiming since it's a statue that offends, it's the same thing that was in C'ville.

cottagesteeze · August 2017

CM189191 said:

Here's a good litmus test:
if tearing down a particular statue, monument or memorial is going to piss off nazis and white supremacists
you should probably consider removing it

Simply stated.

tempo_n_groove · August 2017

Bentleyspop said:

Here's someone who thinks the war is ongoing.....

Man in Confederate uniform confronted by Charlottesville residents
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/us/charlottesville-lee-park-confrontation/index.html

(Wasn't sure if the article belonged on this thread or the Idiot Thread)

With my own two eyes I have seen "the south will rise again" banners and shirts from people whom think there is another war coming.

I have witnessed people talk just like the man in that interview and they really do believe that a civil war is going to happen.

This has been getting worse within the last couple of years.

It's not as uncommon as you'd think unfortunately.

CM189191 · August 2017

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.

So you're telling me it's different than a statue of Lenin in Seattle?

Yes, one Lenin statue in Seattle is different than 1,500 monuments scattered throughout our nation.

Also, one apple is different than 1,500 oranges.

mcgruff10 · August 2017

tempo_n_groove said:

Bentleyspop said:

Here's someone who thinks the war is ongoing.....

Man in Confederate uniform confronted by Charlottesville residents
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/us/charlottesville-lee-park-confrontation/index.html

(Wasn't sure if the article belonged on this thread or the Idiot Thread)

With my own two eyes I have seen "the south will rise again" banners and shirts from people whom think there is another war coming.

I have witnessed people talk just like the man in that interview and they really do believe that a civil war is going to happen.

This has been getting worse within the last couple of years.

It's not as uncommon as you'd think unfortunately.

My dad (from new jersey) went to school in the south. when he heard the phrase "the south will rise again" he would reply with, "yes because shit floats." lol

mcgruff10 · August 2017

JC29856 said:

mcgruff10 said:

JC29856 said:

mcgruff10 said:

jeffbr said:

Why would cities put up statues of losing, treasonous, traitors anyway? I'm not from the South, and have no family in the South, so the concept is completely foreign to me. A hostile group took up arms against my country and got their asses kicked, and yet they still are allowed to memorialize their heroes in public places? Stick them in a private museum where others can go see them if they'd like, but honor them in town squares and city centers? Nope. I'm content to have them relegated to history books and Hollywood movies.

I'm telling you, it's the only time in history that the losers were able to put up statues and fly their battle flag lol. I seriously can't think of another example.
When I lived in spain I don't recall seeing any statues of the moors.

How about this one??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Soldiers

I meant within the country lol. It s not like this is in Vietnam.

you meant wars within the country? well no wonder you couldn't think of any more!

I"m saying that there are no monuments (that I can think of) from a losing country within the victorious country except for the confederate states of america. (did i explain that right?)
no arvn monuments in vietnam
no german monuments in russia
no moorish monuments (moops lol) in spain
etc
imagine seeing a nazi flag on top of a government building in mosow just like we had confederate flags flying above government buildings in the south? craziness.
you would never see that statue you pointed out from the vietnam veterans memorial in downtown hanoi.

Go Beavers · August 2017

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.

So you're telling me it's different than a statue of Lenin in Seattle?

Yes, one Lenin statue in Seattle is different than 1,500 monuments scattered throughout our nation.

Also, one apple is different than 1,500 oranges.

I know. My comment was sarcasm referencing back to someone else's comment suggesting the Lenin statue was similar.

CM189191 · August 2017

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.

So you're telling me it's different than a statue of Lenin in Seattle?

Yes, one Lenin statue in Seattle is different than 1,500 monuments scattered throughout our nation.

Also, one apple is different than 1,500 oranges.

I know. My comment was sarcasm referencing back to someone else's comment suggesting the Lenin statue was similar.

http://www.sarcmark.com/

Enkidu · August 2017

Are there any other southerners here? I'm almost afraid to post. I was born and raised in VA - my family's been in VA since the 1600s. There is a lot of pride in VA history and family - there's a lot of stuff that sucks though. The fact that there was a white high school (yes, Robert E. Lee) and a black high school (yes, Booker T. Washington) into the 1960s. A black and a white cemetery. A black and a white funeral home. I was very lucky to be raised by a liberal family who pointed out that those things were bad.

I don't think tearing down statues does anything. It seems like a slippery slope to me. If you tear down a Robert E. Lee statue, do you tear down a statue of Jefferson? (Yep, I went to UVa, too.)

I'd like to hear from other southerners about how they feel. I'm fascinated by history and I don't think erasing it is the answer. Put a statue of Robert E. Lee in a museum and explain what he did. Teach the true story of Jefferson at UVa - how he did great things, but he also raped his slaves. But erasing things shouldn't make them disappear. We need to learn from past mistakes, don't we?

In case it's not clear, I don't think the south should have won the Civil War and I hate the Alt-Right and it makes me puke to think that Richard Spencer and Jason Kessler (the guy who organized the C'ville rally) both went to UVa.

JC29856 · August 2017

Enkidu said:

Are there any other southerners here? I'm almost afraid to post. I was born and raised in VA - my family's been in VA since the 1600s. There is a lot of pride in VA history and family - there's a lot of stuff that sucks though. The fact that there was a white high school (yes, Robert E. Lee) and a black high school (yes, Booker T. Washington) into the 1960s. A black and a white cemetery. A black and a white funeral home. I was very lucky to be raised by a liberal family who pointed out that those things were bad.

I don't think tearing down statues does anything. It seems like a slippery slope to me. If you tear down a Robert E. Lee statue, do you tear down a statue of Jefferson? (Yep, I went to UVa, too.)

I'd like to hear from other southerners about how they feel. I'm fascinated by history and I don't think erasing it is the answer. Put a statue of Robert E. Lee in a museum and explain what he did. Teach the true story of Jefferson at UVa - how he did great things, but he also raped his slaves. But erasing things shouldn't make them disappear. We need to learn from past mistakes, don't we?

In case it's not clear, I don't think the south should have won the Civil War and I hate the Alt-Right and it makes me puke to think that Richard Spencer and Jason Kessler (the guy who organized the C'ville rally) both went to UVa.

speak your peace, new perspectives are welcome

I'm not a southerner but I know that 260,000 people died, 110,000 were civilians, most Southern statues were erected by 1920 and I'm guessing that some if not most were to honor and memorialize those lost.

Go Beavers · August 2017

Enkidu said:

Are there any other southerners here? I'm almost afraid to post. I was born and raised in VA - my family's been in VA since the 1600s. There is a lot of pride in VA history and family - there's a lot of stuff that sucks though. The fact that there was a white high school (yes, Robert E. Lee) and a black high school (yes, Booker T. Washington) into the 1960s. A black and a white cemetery. A black and a white funeral home. I was very lucky to be raised by a liberal family who pointed out that those things were bad.

I don't think tearing down statues does anything. It seems like a slippery slope to me. If you tear down a Robert E. Lee statue, do you tear down a statue of Jefferson? (Yep, I went to UVa, too.)

I'd like to hear from other southerners about how they feel. I'm fascinated by history and I don't think erasing it is the answer. Put a statue of Robert E. Lee in a museum and explain what he did. Teach the true story of Jefferson at UVa - how he did great things, but he also raped his slaves. But erasing things shouldn't make them disappear. We need to learn from past mistakes, don't we?

In case it's not clear, I don't think the south should have won the Civil War and I hate the Alt-Right and it makes me puke to think that Richard Spencer and Jason Kessler (the guy who organized the C'ville rally) both went to UVa.

Putting up statues to honor traitors is a past mistake, and now is a time to acknowledge those past mistakes. Jefferson wasn't a traitor. (these false equivalencies are starting to feel like a way to maintain status quo). This isn't exclusive to the south, either. I'm born and raised Indiana, a hot bed of Klan activity and still was when I was growing up. This is definitely not a Southern problem but a national one.

Enkidu · August 2017

Last year I read the Ron Chernow bio of Hamilton and then I read his bio of Washington. I remember reading about the American Revolution in middle school and it was so boring. But reading these books as an adult was amazing (and not boring). I don't think I realized how much of a divide there always was b't the North and South. The southern states always wanted to be separate and didn't want to be part of the union. I'd love to read a good book on what happened in the years leading to the Civil War.

There's a confederate section in the cemetery that was near my house growing up and we used to play on the cannons. (In high school we'd go to the cemetery and get high.) (Oh, there's a separate cemetery in my hometown for the "Yankees," called the National Cemetery.)

mcgruff10 · August 2017

JC29856 said:

Enkidu said:

Are there any other southerners here? I'm almost afraid to post. I was born and raised in VA - my family's been in VA since the 1600s. There is a lot of pride in VA history and family - there's a lot of stuff that sucks though. The fact that there was a white high school (yes, Robert E. Lee) and a black high school (yes, Booker T. Washington) into the 1960s. A black and a white cemetery. A black and a white funeral home. I was very lucky to be raised by a liberal family who pointed out that those things were bad.

I don't think tearing down statues does anything. It seems like a slippery slope to me. If you tear down a Robert E. Lee statue, do you tear down a statue of Jefferson? (Yep, I went to UVa, too.)

I'd like to hear from other southerners about how they feel. I'm fascinated by history and I don't think erasing it is the answer. Put a statue of Robert E. Lee in a museum and explain what he did. Teach the true story of Jefferson at UVa - how he did great things, but he also raped his slaves. But erasing things shouldn't make them disappear. We need to learn from past mistakes, don't we?

In case it's not clear, I don't think the south should have won the Civil War and I hate the Alt-Right and it makes me puke to think that Richard Spencer and Jason Kessler (the guy who organized the C'ville rally) both went to UVa.

speak your peace, new perspectives are welcome

I'm not a southerner but I know that 260,000 people died, 110,000 were civilians, most Southern statues were erected by 1920 and I'm guessing that some if not most were to honor and memorialize those lost.

over 600,000 american soldiers died in the american civil war.

The Confederacy - Erasing History

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