The Confederacy - Erasing History

josevolution

rgambs said:

JC29856 said:

Internet crime dogs ID wrong guy in Charlottesville and ruin his life.
Let's all join in the rush to judgement, shall we. It worked so well after the Boston marathon bombing.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-doxxing.html

Reminds me of that time that a bunch of emails were released under suspicious circumstances and everyone kept a cool head and didn't rush to judgement on the complex implications and convoluted accusations.

Drop the mic ! Wasn't he leading the investigation on HRC ...

HughFreakingDillon

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

slavery and a dissolvable nation with soverign states were the two main issues. 

tempo_n_groove

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

We need to know more about it.

mcgruff10

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

Lenin not Stalin. Big difference.

JC29856

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

Yeah, it's a tough but finicky group in here lately, mixed in hate projection and most just see red.
I think you meant Lenin, yeah, someone will eventually comment but the current rage is directed at the Confederates.
I don't know I just don't find statues offending, would a statue of a landowner whipping a slave offend me, yes. Do statue of influential leaders offend me, not so much.
My second choice on my liberate statues list would be Columbus in NY 59th st, now that's a challenge. That guy was straight ruthless.

mcgruff10

It s weird, the losing side usually doesn't get to put up statues lol. 

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

No response on flash mobs either but then, maybe no one here has heard about them yet.

YET! They will.

JC29856

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

No response on flash mobs either but then, maybe no one here has heard about them yet.

YET! They will.

That could be regional, that phase already move thru the Philly area months ago if not a year ago. Where are there forming now?

brianlux

JC29856 said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

No response on flash mobs either but then, maybe no one here has heard about them yet.

YET! They will.

That could be regional, that phase already move thru the Philly area months ago if not a year ago. Where are there forming now?

A few example include a Safeway grocery story in San Francisco that had a robbery form of flash mob recently and a racial attack flash mob in Philly a month or two.

mace1229

Was that statue just a confederate soldier? Didn't see any reference to him other than just a soldier.
In front of a courthouse may not have been the best place for it, but a common soldier is no comparison to a Hitler statue.
I don't see anything wrong with remembering the hundreds of thousands who fought and died on both sides in that war. And a statue of an average soldier seems like a good enough memorial to me. Many, even most of those soldiers didnt have a choice in the war. Most didnt own slaves and were forced to fight in a war to benefit the few rich ones that did. These were poor desperate farmers who were forced to fight the rich man's war and died ugly deaths doing so. I think it is okay to remember that, and for the states to recognize the hundreds of thousands of boys they sent off to die for their cause, even if that cause was an unworthy one that they had no say in.

tempo_n_groove

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

Lenin not Stalin. Big difference.

I always Freudian slip with that...

That statue made a HUGE stink years ago and I was curious if it was still there and it is!

There are articles about it being there over the years and how it bothers people but it's still standing.  

CM189191

mace1229 said:

Was that statue just a confederate soldier? Didn't see any reference to him other than just a soldier.
In front of a courthouse may not have been the best place for it, but a common soldier is no comparison to a Hitler statue.
I don't see anything wrong with remembering the hundreds of thousands who fought and died on both sides in that war. And a statue of an average soldier seems like a good enough memorial to me. Many, even most of those soldiers didnt have a choice in the war. Most didnt own slaves and were forced to fight in a war to benefit the few rich ones that did. These were poor desperate farmers who were forced to fight the rich man's war and died ugly deaths doing so. I think it is okay to remember that, and for the states to recognize the hundreds of thousands of boys they sent off to die for their cause, even if that cause was an unworthy one that they had no say in.

I like soldiers who have morals. They should tear down the confederate soldier statue and put one up honoring conscientious objectors.

JimmyV

This debate always reminds me of the Benedict Arnold "monument" at Saratoga. Arnold's later life came to define him and there is no escaping that, but before he was a traitor he was the hero of Saratoga. So...how do you note that without celebrating him? I think this is a good way to go about it.

http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/boot-monument

Just because we need to remember history doesn't mean we have to honor those involved.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

Was that statue just a confederate soldier? Didn't see any reference to him other than just a soldier.
In front of a courthouse may not have been the best place for it, but a common soldier is no comparison to a Hitler statue.
I don't see anything wrong with remembering the hundreds of thousands who fought and died on both sides in that war. And a statue of an average soldier seems like a good enough memorial to me. Many, even most of those soldiers didnt have a choice in the war. Most didnt own slaves and were forced to fight in a war to benefit the few rich ones that did. These were poor desperate farmers who were forced to fight the rich man's war and died ugly deaths doing so. I think it is okay to remember that, and for the states to recognize the hundreds of thousands of boys they sent off to die for their cause, even if that cause was an unworthy one that they had no say in.

I like soldiers who have morals. They should tear down the confederate soldier statue and put one up honoring conscientious objectors.

It wasn't that easy for the kids Mace spoke to.

Go Beavers

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

You're asking us to do research when you just said the statue that got torn down was "more of a war memorial"?

Go Beavers

tempo_n_groove said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

I did bring up the Stalin statue in Seattle but no one has touched that topic yet.

We're also not in Russia. That's a key factor. 

mcgruff10

lenin statue (straight from wik)

Background[edit]

The statue was constructed by a Bulgarian sculptor Emil Venkov, under a 1981 commission from the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia.[1][2] While following the bounds of his commission, Venkov intended to portray Lenin as a bringer of revolution, in contrast to the traditional portrayals of Lenin as a philosopher and educator.[citation needed]

Venkov's work was completed and installed in Poprad, Czechoslovakia (now Slovakia), in 1988 at a cost of 3,340,000 Czechoslovak koruna ($111,333 in 1993 United States dollars),[3] shortly before the fall of Czechoslovak communism during the 1989 Velvet Revolution.[1] Despite popular belief, the Poprad Lenin was not toppled in the demonstrations during the fall of communism. Instead, it was quietly removed from Lenin's Square, in front of Poprad's main hospital, several months after the Velvet Revolution.[citation needed]

Acquisition and move to Seattle[edit]

Lewis E. Carpenter, an English teacher in Poprad originally from Issaquah, Washington, found the monumental statue lying in a scrapyard ready to be sold for the price of the bronze; Carpenter had met and befriended Venkov while in Czechoslovakia. In close collaboration with a local journalist and good friend, Tomáš Fülöpp, Carpenter approached the city officials with a claim that despite its current unpopularity, the sculpture was still a work of art worth preserving, and he offered to buy it for $13,000.[1] After many bureaucratic hurdles, he finally signed a contract with the mayor on March 16, 1993.[4]

With the help of Venkov, the statue was cut into three pieces and shipped to the United States at a total cost of $40,000.[1] Carpenter financed much of that via mortgaging his home.[5] The statue arrived in Issaquah in August 1993, and Carpenter planned to install it in front of a Slovak restaurant. He died in a car accident in February 1994, during public debates on whether to display the statue in Issaquah that ended in rejection from the suburb's residents.[6] After Carpenter's death, his family planned to sell the statue to a Fremont foundry to be melted down and repurposed into a new piece. The foundry's founder, Peter Bevis, sought to instead display the statue in Fremont, and agreed to have the Fremont Chamber of Commerce hold the sculpture in trust until a buyer is found. The statue was unveiled on June 3, 1995, at the corner of Evanston Avenue North and North 34th Street, one block south of a salvaged Cold War rocket fuselage, another artistic Fremont attraction.[7]

The statue was moved two blocks north to the intersection of Fremont Place North, North 36th Street and Evanston Avenue North in 1996, adjacent to a Taco del Mar and a gelato shop.[8][9] The new location is also 3 blocks west of the Fremont Troll, another Fremont art installation situated under the Aurora Bridge.

The Carpenter family continues to seek a buyer for the statue. As of 2015 the asking price is $250,000, up from a 1996 price tag of $150,000.

mcgruff10

part two:

Fame[edit]

Fremont was considered a quirky artistic community, and like other statues in the neighborhood (such as Waiting for the Interurban), the Lenin statue is often the victim of various artistic projects, endorsed or not.[citation needed] A glowing red star and sometimes Christmas lights have been added to the statue for Christmas since 2004.[11] For the 2004 Solstice Parade, the statue was made to look like John Lennon. During Gay Pride Week, the statue is dressed in drag. Other appropriations of the statue have included painting it as a clown, painting the hands blood-red, and clothing it in a custom-fitted red dress by the Seattle Hash House Harriers for their annual Red Dress Run.[citation needed]

The BBC highlighted Seattle's Lenin statue[12] after protesters removed Lenin statues in Ukraine.[13][14] Zygimantas Pavilionis, envoy to Washington D.C. from Lithuania, referred to the 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine by saying, "In Seattle, I saw that ugly monument to Lenin there" and warning that "one day you will wake up and instead of 'Go Huskies'" Seattle residents will instead see Russian license plates on military vehicles in their city.[15]

JC29856

Go Beavers said:

JC29856 said:

CM189191 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I thought this was really good:  https://sports.yahoo.com/charlottesville-native-chris-long-discusses-city-wont-stick-sports-203627846.html
“If you say ‘It’s history and shouldn’t be destroyed,’ then put it in a museum where they can educate people about how far we’ve come, and the dangers of white supremacy and the Confederacy,” Long said. “Don’t put it in a public place, where people who might be offended by it have to walk by it every day.”

Driving through New Orleans there is a highway that cuts through a large cemetery.  On one side of the road is the black cemetery, and white on the other side.  The white side is spacious with giant beautiful maintained monuments, where the black side is run down and crowded.  I imagined what it must be like to commute to work and see that everyday as a black person living in a segregated city where the whites have giant spacious homes, and black neighborhoods are rundown and crowded.  That cemetery will serve as a more appropriate monument to our history than any statue of some loser confederate general will.

Good post for sure. It got me thinking (collective cringe)
So all this fuss over confederate statues, what is the message of tearing down these statues (or protest against the removal of )? That we wont tolerate/accept memorializing slavery? Im not an expert on the KKK or white supremacy groups, the ones that wanted to protest the removal of the statue in Charlottesville, do they advocate a return to slave ownership? Your post got me thinking about the black and white of war. That statue that was torn down is more of a war memorial than a symbol of slavery(or even hate). Do the protestors on either side think war is black and white? Any civil war historians in here? Was the civil war simply about the black and white issue of slavery? Were the confederates the only side in the wrong? Take it a step further are any wars black and white? Were the wars in Iraq/Afghan simply about avenging 911? Which side was in the wrong in those wars?
Some of the answers may be found in history books hence the reason why I recommend to read a few. Imagine the line between the North and the South, like the road thru the segregated cemeteries, where literally neighbors were forced by allegiance to take arms and kill each other.
Here's an idea tear down every offending statue but first educate yourself on its history and why it's there and try not to get caught up in the bastardization of it from some ideological fringe group.

You're asking us to do research when you just said the statue that got torn down was "more of a war memorial"?

Where do I ask for research? Who is "us"?