Trouble on London Bridge

CM189191

unsung said:

Probably has something to do with Japan's strict gun control laws

PJ_Soul

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

Probably has something to do with Japan's strict gun control laws

If we're talking gun violence in Japan vs in the US, It's more likely something to do with the fact that they have a culture rooted in respect and honour and cooperation instead of a gun culture that tends to glorify the individual over the community. But if we're talking terror attacks in Japan vs America, well that is because Japan keeps to itself in the military sense. They haven't pissed anyone off lately. The same obviously can't be said about the USA.

Go Beavers

unsung said:

fife said:

unsung said:

here is a link I found.  most of their home countries have been attacked by the USA

I will not dispute that.  We should not be world police.

Then apply your epipany to the ignorant memes you just posted. 

unsung

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

fife said:

unsung said:

here is a link I found.  most of their home countries have been attacked by the USA

I will not dispute that.  We should not be world police.

Then apply your epipany to the ignorant memes you just posted. 

Sorry, your feeling was hurt.

unsung

I wonder if this crap would be less frequent if citizens in Europe could conceal carry.  I bet it would.

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

I wonder if this crap would be less frequent if citizens in Europe could conceal carry.  I bet it would.

Why would it? The people who carry out these attacks don't care if they die, plus there are a lot of different ways to carry out terror attacks.

mcgruff10

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

Who are these people you speak of? And if they were on the brink of surrender, why not surrender after Hiroshima?

Go Beavers

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

fife said:

unsung said:

here is a link I found.  most of their home countries have been attacked by the USA

I will not dispute that.  We should not be world police.

Then apply your epipany to the ignorant memes you just posted. 

Sorry, your feeling was hurt.

Pointing out that you may have learned something doesn't have anything to do with my feelings. 

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

Who are these people you speak of? 

People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.

Go Beavers

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

Who are these people you speak of? 

People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.

I've read the same info, too. 

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

Who are these people you speak of? 

People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.

so just an opinion. got ya.  I could argue the other way and make a pretty compelling argument but this thread is not about this. And a few hundred thousand is way off...no more 250,000 and that is a pretty high estimate.  

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

Who are these people you speak of? 

People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.

so just an opinion. got ya.  I could argue the other way and make a pretty compelling argument but this thread is not about this. And a few hundred thousand is way off...no more 250,000 and that is a pretty high estimate.  

Maybe just an opinion, just as the opposite view point is. Although at the end of the day, I'd say the actual truth relies on whether or not Japan was actually geared up to surrender when the bombs dropped. That is what makes all the difference. For me to form a solid belief about whether or not the bombing of Japan was moral, I would have to dig into the facts behind where the Japanese government and emperor and military stood at the time of the bombing. Some certainly believe that it is a fact that they were going to surrender anyhow. I have not bothered to research into that claim enough to confidently say what I believe one way or the other, and I don't think anyone should confidently believe that the bombing was the most moral decision unless they have done such research in an objective way.
Also, even without that, I feel that the bombing of Nagasaki was unnecessary and immoral either way.

tbergs

PJ_Soul said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

Probably has something to do with Japan's strict gun control laws

If we're talking gun violence in Japan vs in the US, It's more likely something to do with the fact that they have a culture rooted in respect and honour and cooperation instead of a gun culture that tends to glorify the individual over the community. But if we're talking terror attacks in Japan vs America, well that is because Japan keeps to itself in the military sense. They haven't pissed anyone off lately. The same obviously can't be said about the USA.

Now you're just talking rationally and all

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

Who are these people you speak of? 

People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.

so just an opinion. got ya.  I could argue the other way and make a pretty compelling argument but this thread is not about this. And a few hundred thousand is way off...no more 250,000 and that is a pretty high estimate.  

Yeah, just an opinion, just as the opposite view point is. Although at the end of the day, I'd say the actual truth relies on whether or not Japan was actually geared up to surrender anyway. That is what makes all the difference. For me to form a solid belief about whether or not the bombing of Japan was moral, I would have to dig into the facts behind where the Japanese government and emperor and military stood at the time of the bombing. Some certainly believe that it is a fact that they were going to surrender anyhow. I have not bothered to research into that claim enough to confidently say what I believe one way or the other, and I don't think anyone should confidently believe that the bombing was the most moral decision unless they have done such research in an objective way.

I've researched it for about 20 plus years (wrote a paper about it in college..got published..blah blah blah)
just some quick points to consider:
japanese way of fighting (never give up, fight to the finish)
kamikazes (first used in leyte gulf 1944..more intense as we got closer to the homeland)
examine iwo jima/okinawa (as we got closer to the homeland the more fierce the japanese fought)
realize that the fire bombings of tokyo killed more people than the atomic bomb (still didn't surrender)
the japanese were ready to defend the homeland to the last man, woman and child.  Literally old people and children were taught how to use grenades and carry pitchforks in defense.
some estimates on the first day of invasion were 250,000 americans dead and millions of japanese
thousands of leaflets were dropped warning the japanese of the atomic bomb and their was till no surrender.
hiroshima, no surrender.
nagasaki...finally

and then russia invaded manchuria.

I do agree that the u.s. dropped the bomb to show the ussr that we had the world's most powerful weapon but it did save millions of lives and sped up the war.  

tbergs

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

I believe Truman was against the bombing and his military leaders misled him. I think he didn't learn what was happening until after the planes were on the way. That's why he was instrumental in changing how nuclear bombs and declarations of war were approved. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.

mcgruff10

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).

I believe Truman was against the bombing and his military leaders misled him. I think he didn't learn what was happening until after the planes were on the way. That's why he was instrumental in changing how nuclear bombs and declarations of war were approved. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.

This is off the trimester assessment I'm giving tomorrow:

When Japan surrendered a few days after the bomb was ordered dropped . . . the military estimated that at least a quarter of a million of the invasion forces against Japan and a quarter million Japanese had been spared complete destruction and that twice that many on the other side would, otherwise, have been maimed for life . . .

 The need for such a fateful decision, of course, never would have arisen, had we not been shot in the back by Japan at Pearl Harbor in December, 1941.

 -Harry S. Truman, 1958

my2hands

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times

I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims...  you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre  

Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?

a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.  

That is 100% exactly what I'm saying, without pause or hesitation.

A couple hundred thousand, a few hundred thousand, who's counting anyway? "We don't do body counts" *waves flag*

unsung

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

I wonder if this crap would be less frequent if citizens in Europe could conceal carry.  I bet it would.

Why would it? The people who carry out these attacks don't care if they die, plus there are a lot of different ways to carry out terror attacks.

Possibly.  But possibly the attack could be stopped sooner.  Give them their paradise a little sooner.