the cap is supposed to go over the heart. it's a sign of respect and love for those who fought for your freedom. don't be a dick. remove your hat and put it over your heart during the anthem.
But why is it a sign of respect? Who deemed it as such? For those who fought for our freedoms - what does that have anything to do with a hat? What about a foreigner visiting and catching a game? No one here fought for his freedom. Why do we just blindly follow this "tradition" without questioning its validity and application to modern times?
better people than you apparently. any other common courtesy you want to piss on too? not into saying please and thank you or hold the door for a woman? are you against happy birthdays and giving gifts too? how about saying I love you? want to question who deemed that appropriate? any others?
No need for personal attacks, man. I'm not pissing on anything, just asking questions. That's what people do when they don't understand things and want to learn of their origins and reasons. I don't see how not taking a hat off is a sign of disrespect to ANYTHING, moreover to those who fought for my freedoms. And the only reason anyone has is "because that's the way it is."
not attacking just offering my opinion that someone who respects the tradition of taking their hat off during the anthem is a better person than someone who doesn't.
Just like people who go to church on Sundays are better than those that don't eh?
Again... this debate isn't about respecting the tradition- people have said they comply. This discussion is centred on why the f**k we do it. Some traditions make no sense. It's okay to discuss them when they appear to make no sense.
I was opposed to Kap kneeling during the national anthem. I'll always get out of my seat and respect the anthem of any country I'm in for better or worse. I'm just wondering why the cap is necessary as well?
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,384
the cap is supposed to go over the heart. it's a sign of respect and love for those who fought for your freedom. don't be a dick. remove your hat and put it over your heart during the anthem.
But why is it a sign of respect? Who deemed it as such? For those who fought for our freedoms - what does that have anything to do with a hat? What about a foreigner visiting and catching a game? No one here fought for his freedom. Why do we just blindly follow this "tradition" without questioning its validity and application to modern times?
better people than you apparently. any other common courtesy you want to piss on too? not into saying please and thank you or hold the door for a woman? are you against happy birthdays and giving gifts too? how about saying I love you? want to question who deemed that appropriate? any others?
No need for personal attacks, man. I'm not pissing on anything, just asking questions. That's what people do when they don't understand things and want to learn of their origins and reasons. I don't see how not taking a hat off is a sign of disrespect to ANYTHING, moreover to those who fought for my freedoms. And the only reason anyone has is "because that's the way it is."
not attacking just offering my opinion that someone who respects the tradition of taking their hat off during the anthem is a better person than someone who doesn't.
Just like people who go to church on Sundays are better than those that don't eh?
Again... this debate isn't about respecting the tradition- people have said they comply. This discussion is centred on why the f**k we do it. Some traditions make no sense. It's okay to discuss them when they appear to make no sense.
I was opposed to Kap kneeling during the national anthem. I'll always get out of my seat and respect the anthem of any country I'm in for better or worse. I'm just wondering why the cap is necessary as well?
at this point i doubt you want my thoughts on people who go to church every Sunday. i'm sure some would be offended by my opinion there too
the cap is supposed to go over the heart. it's a sign of respect and love for those who fought for your freedom. don't be a dick. remove your hat and put it over your heart during the anthem.
But why is it a sign of respect? Who deemed it as such? For those who fought for our freedoms - what does that have anything to do with a hat? What about a foreigner visiting and catching a game? No one here fought for his freedom. Why do we just blindly follow this "tradition" without questioning its validity and application to modern times?
better people than you apparently. any other common courtesy you want to piss on too? not into saying please and thank you or hold the door for a woman? are you against happy birthdays and giving gifts too? how about saying I love you? want to question who deemed that appropriate? any others?
No need for personal attacks, man. I'm not pissing on anything, just asking questions. That's what people do when they don't understand things and want to learn of their origins and reasons. I don't see how not taking a hat off is a sign of disrespect to ANYTHING, moreover to those who fought for my freedoms. And the only reason anyone has is "because that's the way it is."
not attacking just offering my opinion that someone who respects the tradition of taking their hat off during the anthem is a better person than someone who doesn't.
Just like people who go to church on Sundays are better than those that don't eh?
Again... this debate isn't about respecting the tradition- people have said they comply. This discussion is centred on why the f**k we do it. Some traditions make no sense. It's okay to discuss them when they appear to make no sense.
I was opposed to Kap kneeling during the national anthem. I'll always get out of my seat and respect the anthem of any country I'm in for better or worse. I'm just wondering why the cap is necessary as well?
at this point i doubt you want my thoughts on people who go to church every Sunday. i'm sure some would be offended by my opinion there too
the cap is supposed to go over the heart. it's a sign of respect and love for those who fought for your freedom. don't be a dick. remove your hat and put it over your heart during the anthem.
But why is it a sign of respect? Who deemed it as such? For those who fought for our freedoms - what does that have anything to do with a hat? What about a foreigner visiting and catching a game? No one here fought for his freedom. Why do we just blindly follow this "tradition" without questioning its validity and application to modern times?
better people than you apparently. any other common courtesy you want to piss on too? not into saying please and thank you or hold the door for a woman? are you against happy birthdays and giving gifts too? how about saying I love you? want to question who deemed that appropriate? any others?
No need for personal attacks, man. I'm not pissing on anything, just asking questions. That's what people do when they don't understand things and want to learn of their origins and reasons. I don't see how not taking a hat off is a sign of disrespect to ANYTHING, moreover to those who fought for my freedoms. And the only reason anyone has is "because that's the way it is."
not attacking just offering my opinion that someone who respects the tradition of taking their hat off during the anthem is a better person than someone who doesn't.
Just like people who go to church on Sundays are better than those that don't eh?
Again... this debate isn't about respecting the tradition- people have said they comply. This discussion is centred on why the f**k we do it. Some traditions make no sense. It's okay to discuss them when they appear to make no sense.
I was opposed to Kap kneeling during the national anthem. I'll always get out of my seat and respect the anthem of any country I'm in for better or worse. I'm just wondering why the cap is necessary as well?
at this point i doubt you want my thoughts on people who go to church every Sunday. i'm sure some would be offended by my opinion there too
It's tradition to put your hand over your heart and remove your hat during the Pledge of Allegiance or the national anthem, but why?
The hat removal and hand-over-heart rules aren't just tradition, but part of the United States Flag Code on how people should conduct themselves during the pledge and The Star-Spangled Banner. The tradition originated in the era of knights who wore helmets that completely covered their faces, according to Today I Found Out. It became customary for the knights to lift their visors to show their eyes to the monarch and others as a friendly response. Most individuals did this with their right hand to demonstrate they had no weapon on their sword-wielding arm, an act of submission.
Today, the flag code states: "When not in uniform men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."
Veterans not in uniform may also salute, or choose to put the right hand over the heart.
Traditionally, women do not remove their hats, even when indoors. This was probably due to the fact that many pinned down their head ornaments, and an effort to remove it would result in destroying the woman’s hairstyle. Even today, on some occasions, it is not necessary for a woman to remove her hat.
According to the Emily Post Institute, women only need to remove their hat if it's a sports cap. It is also customary for a hat to be specifically held in a person’s right hand.
The United States Flag Code also instructs non-U.S. citizens to stand at attention and remove nonuniform hats during the Pledge of Allegiance and national anthem.
Okay, I will try to reel this back in some. When you decide to go to a baseball game, or any other sport, you will either wear a hat or you won't. During the national anthem everyone is asked to rise and they typically do. But attached to rising, the person that decided to put on a hat is now asked to remove it as well as stand (again, not a difficult ask, I have always and will always continue to do so). But there must be some reasoning behind finding a hat disrespectful to the point of asking it be removed. So why are hat wearers asked to take an extra step to show there respect? Is standing with the non-hat wearing people not sufficient?
Pittsburgh 2013 Cincinnati 2014 Greenville 2016 (Raleigh 2016) Columbia 2016
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
why? don't you yourself define people by how they act?
I define people by the actions they take that have an effect on themselves, others, and the world at large. I don't define people by empty gestures.
So if a pedophile takes his hat off for the anthem, is he all good? That's even easier than asking Jesus for forgiveness! Neat-O!
what is the matter with this kid?
Does it make you feel tough to insult people on the internet? I'll bet it does.
A round of applause for the tough guy!!
im not sure what youre insulted by? arent you the kid that called someone a dick a few posts ago for stating an opinion?
does it make you feel smart when you talk about how intelligent you are on the interweb every day?
poupon?
Calling him a dick was a mistake, I can own that, not my most mature post. That being said... Your persistence in calling me a kid is a deliberate insult you have levied at me every chance you get since I spoke ill of the sonic abomination commonly known as "The Beastie Boys". If you don't like the things I have to say I would suggest you counter them with rational arguments or ignore them like a mature adult. Otherwise you are trolling and that is unbecoming.
why? don't you yourself define people by how they act?
I define people by the actions they take that have an effect on themselves, others, and the world at large. I don't define people by empty gestures.
So if a pedophile takes his hat off for the anthem, is he all good? That's even easier than asking Jesus for forgiveness! Neat-O!
what is the matter with this kid?
Does it make you feel tough to insult people on the internet? I'll bet it does.
A round of applause for the tough guy!!
im not sure what youre insulted by? arent you the kid that called someone a dick a few posts ago for stating an opinion?
does it make you feel smart when you talk about how intelligent you are on the interweb every day?
poupon?
Calling him a dick was a mistake, I can own that, not my most mature post. That being said... Your persistence in calling me a kid is a deliberate insult you have levied at me every chance you get since I spoke ill of the sonic abomination commonly known as "The Beastie Boys". If you don't like the things I have to say I would suggest you counter them with rational arguments or ignore them like a mature adult. Otherwise you are trolling and that is unbecoming.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
After games, the kids 'fist bump' now which makes much more sense.
* Side note: my iPad is making some crazy autocorrects. If I don't triple check... I'd come across as a lunatic at times.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
After games, the kids 'fist bump' now which makes much more sense.
* Side note: my iPad is making some crazy autocorrects. If I don't triple check... I'd come across as a lunatic at times.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
After games, the kids 'fist bump' now which makes much more sense.
* Side note: my iPad is making some crazy autocorrects. If I don't triple check... I'd come across as a lunatic at times.
That does make good sense, I'll bet there's some grumps out there that hate it though lol
OP Wasn't quite sure of the full reason either other than just a sign of respect at a sporting event. I never really questioned the full reason but I knew it had to do with something about American freedom and honour. Nice article Gruff, clears it up nicely.
I always remove it when asked as it is the custom where I am visiting so I have no problem with that. As for a church I don't have to worry about manually removing it because it would catch on fire and turn to ash before I actually made it in the doorframe. Elbows on the table is just rude no matter the custom it came from. Always open a car door for ladies. Shaking hands I'm meh about it don't care if one wants to shake hands or not but I will put my hand out to shake if I would want one back. It just comes down to minding your manners and take off your fucking hat.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
Shaking hands isn't the problem, the problem is the nose picking and eye rubbing without washing your hands first.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
Shaking hands isn't the problem, the problem is the nose picking and eye rubbing without washing your hands first.
Who knew a thread about hat etiquette might get closed. My question about regional differences was more about outside of the stadium, say at shows or a restaurant. It's more casual in Oregon and people keep their hats on all the time. Maybe there's a couple real fancy restaurants in Portland where this doesn't happen. Heck, I've never been anywhere where jeans aren't acceptable.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
Shaking hands isn't the problem, the problem is the nose picking and eye rubbing without washing your hands first.
It takes quite a bit of training and conscious effort to resist all urges to touch your face, you might think you are doing well, and then bam, you catch yourself doing it. When there are no consequences, you might think you aren't touching your face without washing your hands, but you are, and I learned that the hard way, the same as anybody who scrubs does.
^another thoughtful, reasoned addition to the debate!
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation. I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it. Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy. Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
After games, the kids 'fist bump' now which makes much more sense.
* Side note: my iPad is making some crazy autocorrects. If I don't triple check... I'd come across as a lunatic at times.
That does make good sense, I'll bet there's some grumps out there that hate it though lol
The tradition is to honour your opponent. Not shaking hands is disrespectful. What? You can't even shake my hand? You don't think I'm good enough to shake my hand? Horrible humanness being.
* I left that stupid autocorrect in there to show what my stupid iPad is doing. Humanness? Wtf?
Comments
I don't define people by empty gestures.
So if a pedophile takes his hat off for the anthem, is he all good? That's even easier than asking Jesus for forgiveness! Neat-O!
Again... this debate isn't about respecting the tradition- people have said they comply. This discussion is centred on why the f**k we do it. Some traditions make no sense. It's okay to discuss them when they appear to make no sense.
I was opposed to Kap kneeling during the national anthem. I'll always get out of my seat and respect the anthem of any country I'm in for better or worse. I'm just wondering why the cap is necessary as well?
I'll bet it does.
A round of applause for the tough guy!!
does it make you feel smart when you talk about how intelligent you are on the interweb every day?
poupon?
The hat removal and hand-over-heart rules aren't just tradition, but part of the United States Flag Code on how people should conduct themselves during the pledge and The Star-Spangled Banner.
The tradition originated in the era of knights who wore helmets that completely covered their faces, according to Today I Found Out. It became customary for the knights to lift their visors to show their eyes to the monarch and others as a friendly response. Most individuals did this with their right hand to demonstrate they had no weapon on their sword-wielding arm, an act of submission.
Today, the flag code states: "When not in uniform men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."
Veterans not in uniform may also salute, or choose to put the right hand over the heart.
Traditionally, women do not remove their hats, even when indoors. This was probably due to the fact that many pinned down their head ornaments, and an effort to remove it would result in destroying the woman’s hairstyle. Even today, on some occasions, it is not necessary for a woman to remove her hat.
According to the Emily Post Institute, women only need to remove their hat if it's a sports cap. It is also customary for a hat to be specifically held in a person’s right hand.
The United States Flag Code also instructs non-U.S. citizens to stand at attention and remove nonuniform hats during the Pledge of Allegiance and national anthem.
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
usflag.org
§171. Conduct during playing
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.Your persistence in calling me a kid is a deliberate insult you have levied at me every chance you get since I spoke ill of the sonic abomination commonly known as "The Beastie Boys".
If you don't like the things I have to say I would suggest you counter them with rational arguments or ignore them like a mature adult.
Otherwise you are trolling and that is unbecoming.
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
I'm not one for observing traditions without reason to do so myself. I don't do sporting events but I would remove my cap, half out of respect and half out of fear that some crazy hillbilly might start trouble. Inside, hats aren't really necessary but a removed hat is easily left behind so I won't necessarily take it off because of manners, just depends on the situation.
I don't worry about putting my elbows on the table because that custom is from the days when you would come in from chores, wash hands in the basin, and eat. Clean elbows are fine on tables, no problem with it.
Opening car doors for ladies is just ridiculous, opening doors for people when you are both going through is just common sense courtesy.
Shaking hands I am not a fan of, too much time working in the operating room and becoming germ averse, but that one is hard to avoid, it's too awkward to refuse. It is an outdated custom that has negative effects on people, but it sure is persistent.
* Side note: my iPad is making some crazy autocorrects. If I don't triple check... I'd come across as a lunatic at times.
Wasn't quite sure of the full reason either other than just a sign of respect at a sporting event. I never really questioned the full reason but I knew it had to do with something about American freedom and honour. Nice article Gruff, clears it up nicely.
I always remove it when asked as it is the custom where I am visiting so I have no problem with that. As for a church I don't have to worry about manually removing it because it would catch on fire and turn to ash before I actually made it in the doorframe.
Elbows on the table is just rude no matter the custom it came from.
Always open a car door for ladies.
Shaking hands I'm meh about it don't care if one wants to shake hands or not but I will put my hand out to shake if I would want one back.
It just comes down to minding your manners and take off your fucking hat.
Why open a car door for a lady? Is she incapable? Is it an inconvenience? Is there a reason at all?
When there are no consequences, you might think you aren't touching your face without washing your hands, but you are, and I learned that the hard way, the same as anybody who scrubs does.
* I left that stupid autocorrect in there to show what my stupid iPad is doing. Humanness? Wtf?